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Thread: The role of hormones in muscle hypertrophy

  1. #1
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    The role of hormones in muscle hypertrophy

    Amazing read!

    ABSTRACT
    Anabolic-androgenic steroids (AAS) and other hormones such as growth hormone (GH) and insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) have been shown to increase muscle mass in patients suffering from various diseases related to muscle atrophy. Despite known side-effects associated with supraphysiologic doses of such drugs, their anabolic effects have led to their widespread use and abuse by bodybuilders and athletes such as strength athletes seeking to improve performance and muscle mass. On the other hand, resistance training (RT) has also been shown to induce significant endogenous hormonal (testosterone (T), GH, IGF-1) elevations. Therefore, some bodybuilders employ RT protocols designed to elevate hormonal levels in order to maximize anabolic responses. In this article, we reviewed current RT protocol outcomes with and without performance enhancing drug usage. Acute RT-induced hormonal elevations seem not to be directly correlated with muscle growth. On the other hand, supplementation with AAS and other hormones might lead to supraphysiological muscle hypertrophy, especially when different compounds are combined.
    FULL ARTICLE: https://goo.gl/Ki8YDe
    Last edited by tarmyg; 11-25-2017 at 11:26 PM.
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    I like the article.
    I feel they are looking at bodybuilders from a one sided approach. Many pros cruise at much higher dosages than they consider superphysiological. After a certain point it takes a butt ton of AAS just to maintain let alone grow.

    Are they suggesting using small amounts of compounds synergystically would pehaps be a way of decreasing side effects?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke View Post
    I like the article.
    I feel they are looking at bodybuilders from a one sided approach. Many pros cruise at much higher dosages than they consider superphysiological. After a certain point it takes a butt ton of AAS just to maintain let alone grow.

    Are they suggesting using small amounts of compounds synergystically would pehaps be a way of decreasing side effects?
    Sounds to me they are saying two different things.

    First...Bodybuilders use IGF-1 HG AAS with resistance training for bodybuilding

    Second...some bodybuilders (natural) use natural ways to boost the levels that IGF-1 HG and AAS boost.

    If you read up on GH levels and diet you find you can get as much as 10 x your normal GH output by doing 16-18 hour fasting plus training schedule. I don't give a sht about that because I can shoot 10iu a day of GH and not worry about wasting muscle from my hard efforts.

    Educated people talking about things they don't understand completely. If they for one year did AAS and lifted with diet properly they would burn their research results and invest the time cycling.

    FYI Obs..your Delts are fracking incredible. I wold die for shoulders like that. Four more years !!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicagotarsier View Post
    Sounds to me they are saying two different things.

    First...Bodybuilders use IGF-1 HG AAS with resistance training for bodybuilding

    Second...some bodybuilders (natural) use natural ways to boost the levels that IGF-1 HG and AAS boost.

    If you read up on GH levels and diet you find you can get as much as 10 x your normal GH output by doing 16-18 hour fasting plus training schedule. I don't give a sht about that because I can shoot 10iu a day of GH and not worry about wasting muscle from my hard efforts.

    Educated people talking about things they don't understand completely. If they for one year did AAS and lifted with diet properly they would burn their research results and invest the time cycling.

    FYI Obs..your Delts are fracking incredible. I wold die for shoulders like that. Four more years !!!
    Thanks man I am trying. Gotta break soon for a couple months and will be slingshot cycling and training. 8 weeks on 2weeks off for probably six months straight. Four years is a long time but I am gonna push the limits.

    Gonna check bloods soon... That will be interesting. I will probably post them in the lounge for entertainment purposes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicagotarsier View Post
    Second...some bodybuilders (natural) use natural ways to boost the levels that IGF-1 HG and AAS boost.

    If you read up on GH levels and diet you find you can get as much as 10 x your normal GH output by doing 16-18 hour fasting plus training schedule. I don't give a sht about that because I can shoot 10iu a day of GH and not worry about wasting muscle from my hard efforts.
    this is exactly right . something I personally consider rather pathetic about some of the 'science based' all natty lifters out there is doing stupid shit like that .
    They will do a fasted heavy training session just in the hopes of getting a natural boost in HGH while fasted (but common sense says food is way more anabolic then that little spike of GH they got fasted).
    Or they'll add in a bunch of herbs and shit like that to their diet in hopes of getting a boost in natural testosterone production (not realizing that an increase in endogenous test does not carry over to more hypertrophy at all).

    just inject the hormones and be done with it. natty guys spin their wheels trying to optomize natural hormones.

    Supraphysioligical levels of AAS and Hormones is what builds muscle. a natural increase in GH from one training session is so small scale compared to 3 years straight of taking 10iu of GH a day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke View Post
    Thanks man I am trying. Gotta break soon for a couple months and will be slingshot cycling and training. 8 weeks on 2weeks off for probably six months straight. Four years is a long time but I am gonna push the limits. .
    this is pretty similar to what I do as well . do you rotate different compounds in and out of your 8 week blasts ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    this is pretty similar to what I do as well . do you rotate different compounds in and out of your 8 week blasts ?
    I will be.
    Still trying to decide whats next as far as compounds go.
    I agree with a lot of the slingshot theory but I will not run the training as Ronnie stipulates, keeping the same exercises and never changing it up.

    First cycle will probably be a high dosage of test with npp 8 weeks, then drop to trt for 2 weeks, then test/tren 8 weeks. Trt two weeks, then test, tren, npp for 8 weeks followed by a couple months off.
    Rinse and repeat.

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    Great article, Tarmyg.
    Here are some highlight that effect me:
    Granted, RT induced spike will not compete with exogenous administration:
    "Similar to T, acute RT-induced elevations in GH may not be large and long enough to induce similar effects to exogenous recombinant GH administration."
    Although The comparison between a RT-induced level and exogenous administration will not matter to me, the following does apply to my GHRH/GHRP administration.
    "Endogenous GH release seems also to respond to smaller muscle groups with low to medium intensity and short rest
    periods [3], peaking between the period immediately after and 15 min after RT, coming back to baseline values around 60 min
    post-RT [3,23,34]."

    So, working out small muscles produces a considerable spike and large muscles doubles that spike plus, a lower intensity may be efficacious. This informs my the level workout intensity vs cortisol avoidance. Sometimes when I workout real hard, partly in order to get a GH spike, I can't sleep that night because of the cortisol.
    This part is hilarious:
    "In order to classify the muscle-building potency of AAS, an anabolic to androgenic ratio chart is often used by athletes. However, this ratio is based on the growth rate of the levator ani muscle versus the prostate in rodents after treatment with several AAS [53]. Nevertheless, even though this ratio based on a specific muscle of rodents can hardly be replicated to humans, it seems that many AAS abusers still consider it when choosing their performance enhancing compound."
    Gearhead, is this related to the three classes you were telling me about in an earlier thread:
    (1) Testosterone derivatives (T, Methyltestosterone ,
    Methandrostenolone , Chlorodehydromethyltestosterone, Fluoxymesterone,
    Boldenone ): The compounds in this group are known to induce fast strength and muscle gains but show a
    high rate of aromatization. Due to the high water retention caused by aromatization, they are mainly used in
    bulking cycles for quick mass gains.
    (2) Dihydrotestosterone derivatives (Stanozolol , Oxandrolone, Oxymetholone, Mesterolone,
    Methenolone, Drostanolone): Even though most of these compounds are highly androgenic , they have a
    high binding affinity to the androgen receptor and are potent strength and muscle mass builders. Due to the
    DHT structure, these compounds cannot aromatize to estrogen. Therefore, these compounds are often used
    for cutting cycles and pre-contest.
    (3) Nandrolone derivatives (Nandrolone, Trenbolone ): Compounds in this group show the highest anabolic
    to androgenic ratio and have strong muscle building effects. However, administration of nandrolone derivatives
    can result in elevated progestogenic activity. The use of this group of AAS is versatile and is used for both
    bulking and cutting cycles.

    ----
    Thanks Tarmyg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quester View Post
    Great article, Tarmyg.
    Here are some highlight that effect me:
    Granted, RT induced spike will not compete with exogenous administration:
    "Similar to T, acute RT-induced elevations in GH may not be large and long enough to induce similar effects to exogenous recombinant GH administration."
    Although The comparison between a RT-induced level and exogenous administration will not matter to me, the following does apply to my GHRH/GHRP administration.
    "Endogenous GH release seems also to respond to smaller muscle groups with low to medium intensity and short rest
    periods [3], peaking between the period immediately after and 15 min after RT, coming back to baseline values around 60 min
    post-RT [3,23,34]."

    So, working out small muscles produces a considerable spike and large muscles doubles that spike plus, a lower intensity may be efficacious. This informs my the level workout intensity vs cortisol avoidance. Sometimes when I workout real hard, partly in order to get a GH spike, I can't sleep that night because of the cortisol.
    Quester,
    check out the post I did in the HGH section of the forum . may be some beneficial info for you. The reason a naturally induced pulse of GH can be relatively 'powerful' is because GH produced by the pituitary is the purest form of GH available . but when you take in exogenous HGH your body may actually break some of that down and create anti bodies to destroy it (this does not necessarily happen to everyone). so for some guys exogenous HGH is not ideal as compared to endogenous HGH or using secretagogues or ghrh/p

    http://forums.steroid.com/igf-1-lr3-...ml#post7341855


    in regards to your exercise induced spike in cortisol this can be controlled and diminished by using exogenous insulin and dietary carbs (insulin curbs cortisol) , or by trying to get an endogenous spike of insulin using a combination of fast acting and slow digesting .dietary carbs.
    just saying you may not currently be getting enough insulin spike and carbs around the time of your workout.

    Of course spiking insulin and carbs around the workout will also limit natural GH pulses around this time . Personally I'd rather restrict cortisol and get my GH spikes at multiple other times throughout the day and night .
    just a thought.


    Quote Originally Posted by Quester View Post
    Gearhead, is this related to the three classes you were telling me about in an earlier thread:
    (1) Testosterone derivatives (T, Methyltestosterone ,
    Methandrostenolone , Chlorodehydromethyltestosterone, Fluoxymesterone,
    Boldenone ): The compounds in this group are known to induce fast strength and muscle gains but show a
    high rate of aromatization. Due to the high water retention caused by aromatization, they are mainly used in
    bulking cycles for quick mass gains.
    (2) Dihydrotestosterone derivatives (Stanozolol , Oxandrolone, Oxymetholone, Mesterolone,
    Methenolone, Drostanolone): Even though most of these compounds are highly androgenic , they have a
    high binding affinity to the androgen receptor and are potent strength and muscle mass builders. Due to the
    DHT structure, these compounds cannot aromatize to estrogen. Therefore, these compounds are often used
    for cutting cycles and pre-contest.
    (3) Nandrolone derivatives (Nandrolone, Trenbolone ): Compounds in this group show the highest anabolic
    to androgenic ratio and have strong muscle building effects. However, administration of nandrolone derivatives
    can result in elevated progestogenic activity. The use of this group of AAS is versatile and is used for both
    bulking and cutting cycles.

    ----
    Thanks Tarmyg
    No , I believe what you are referring to is the thread where I spoke about Class 1 and Class 2 steroids . which is totally different type classification then the 3 derrivitive classes mentioned above.

    the derivative classes only are in reference to the base hormone a steroid is 'derived' from (chemically made out of).
    eg. , EQ is made from the male hormone Testosterone , Masteron is made from the hormone Dihydrotestosterone (dht), and Nandrolone like deca are made from the hormone Progesterone .

    a class 1 and class 2 steroid classification is not related to the derivative classes of a steroid at all.

    eg., Primobolan and Testosterone are both class 1 steroids , Primo is a DHT derived steroid and test is not. Or Deca is a progesterone derived sterioid and is a class 1 as well .. thats 3 different 'derivative' classes, but all are still class 1 steroids .
    likewise Dbol is a Testosterone derived steroid but is a class 2 , just like winny is a DHT steroid and is also a class 2.

    so you see there is zero association between the derivative class and wither a steroid is a class 1 or 2 or not.

    - derrivite classification just means what hormone the steroid was made from

    - class 1 steroids work mainly on the androgen receptor by binding to it and acting on dna

    - class 2 steroids inhibit their anabolic properties apart from binding to the androgen receptor


    all important and interesting stuff non the less
    Last edited by GearHeaded; 11-26-2017 at 04:05 PM.
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  10. #10
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    Yes, absolutely.
    I'll have to reconsider my GHRH/RP administration w/ low blood sugar levels during a workout. Normally, I take my shot in the gym bathroom right after my first set (a compound set), then eat a banana/milk/whey shake no more than 1 hour after administration. The idea behind it being, that will be the highest spike over a 24-hour period (the sleep-time spike would be highest for non-lifters) and, the target tissues/cells will be primed for receiving the hormone. However, cortisol is a bitch and carbs are anabolic .

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    just inject the hormones and be done with it.


    That about sums it up.
    -*- NO SOURCE CHECKS -*-

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    Thank you for the input guys. At the end of the day I do just as Kelkel quoted Gearheaded stating but I do love to nerd out in these things.

    Quester,

    I was also laughing hysterically at this specific part:
    "In order to classify the muscle-building potency of AAS, an anabolic to androgenic ratio chart is often used by athletes. However, this ratio is based on the growth rate of the levator ani muscle versus the prostate in rodents after treatment with several AAS [53]. Nevertheless, even though this ratio based on a specific muscle of rodents can hardly be replicated to humans, it seems that many AAS abusers still consider it when choosing their performance enhancing compound."
    As I have started down this rabbithole now, here is the full text to the above reference talking about the "levator ani muscle", Hershberger 1953. https://goo.gl/zwm1BQ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke View Post
    Thanks man I am trying. Gotta break soon for a couple months and will be slingshot cycling and training. 8 weeks on 2weeks off for probably six months straight. Four years is a long time but I am gonna push the limits.

    Gonna check bloods soon... That will be interesting. I will probably post them in the lounge for entertainment purposes.
    8 on 2 off... Sounds like a good time. Tell me more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sh0tsf1red View Post
    8 on 2 off... Sounds like a good time. Tell me more.
    Read slingshot training by Ronnie Rowland. Its long but pretty good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quester View Post
    https://youtu.be/-E35OMfL4A4
    Mouse howling. Watched one on Nat Geo that killed a scorpion bigger than itself. It drug it inside its burrow and came outside and howled at the moon.

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