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Thread: 63 Yr-Old TRT (then Gear) User

  1. #1
    Flyboy7b2 is offline New Member
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    63 Yr-Old TRT (then Gear) User

    Hi guys and gals, i'm new to the forum - sorry in advance for the long post: I'm looking for helpful advice. There are just no serious body builders at my gym, so no one to talk to.

    I'm interested in your advice on the dosages of gear i'm taking (particularly Anastrozole) and
    comments on the workout schedule i'm using.

    I get bloodwork every quarter and all good numbers.

    My issue is I feel i've hit a plateau. How much time do you serious bodybuilders spend in the gym and what kind/how much dosages of gear are you taking?)

    I've had pretty good results so far (even for being an older guy) but after my tough 2 hr+, 3x/week workouts: a) i never get DOMS even though i'm working muscles to failure b) my erections are less than what they were even at lower TestC doses, and c) i just don't feel as tired or pumped up after tough workouts. I am in the best condition of my life at 63 and even now stand among the better physiques in the gym, but my growth progress has definitely slowed. But i am also concerned about adding more gear dosages, given my age.

    As mentioned - I work out 3 times/week, 2+ hours at the gym, plus do 2.5 - 3.0 miles (30 minutes) on the eliptical every day + occasional light dumbbell work on days off.

    Background:
    About 12 months ago, i started a basic TRT program with a FL clinic - (my T level was off the chart low). The clinic put me on Test C, HCG , Anastrozole, pinning 100 mg Test-C per week and 1 mg oral Anastrozole.

    After a couple of months, the difference in the way i felt was incredible (improved sex drive, erections and cardio stamina). I began major at-home cardio (eliptical + treadmill) + dumbbell training. I dropped from 245 lbs to 184 inside of 6 months and started a gym membership 3 months ago in pretty decent shape.

    Before that - around May 2017 - i added increased gear usage, have now added 11 lbs of muscle, bmi = 13, and have worked up to the following dosages:

    (I had also started off early with Decabol 250 for 2 months, but it seemed to add a lot of water weight + i was hungry all the time, so switched over to Tren En.)

    Methandienone Injections - 150 mg/week (only on days of gym workouts - so 50 mg x 3)
    Trenbolone Enanathate - 400 mg/week (150 + 150 + 100)
    Testosterone Cypionate - 750 mg/week (250 + 250 + 250)
    Anastrozole - 3 mg/week
    HCG 250 units/week

    I'm thinking of upping the Tren dosage to 1000 mg/week and the Test C to 1000mg/week. Any issues there? I feel an increase in the gear dosages could speed results? Am i taking enough Anastrozole as it is - or at the proposed levels? HCG?

    My goals - I'd like to develop even more body-builder physique - bulk/definition and increased vascularity - and - oh yeah: getting back the hard wood in the AM when i was on basic TRT would be great. (Something changed there, so not sure why that occured.) I work out like a maniac but just not getting real mass yet. And yes - i'm afraid of getting chubby again, so maybe not eating enough protein every day or doing too much cardio?

    Any suggestions on how much protein to take and anyone else use BCAAs like -
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...0?ie=UTF8&th=1

    Lots of questions here... again, sorry for the long post but I want to make my remaining years seriously outstanding... advice/thoughts anyone...? Whew. thanks all.

    If anything here isn't allowed, admin please delete.

  2. #2
    David LoPan's Avatar
    David LoPan is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    REF: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5568273/

    Abstract
    The branched chain amino acids (BCAAs) are leucine, valine and isoleucine. A multi-million dollar industry of nutritional supplements has grown around the concept that dietary supplements of BCAAs alone produce an anabolic response in humans driven by a stimulation of muscle protein synthesis. In this brief review the theoretical and empirical bases for that claim are discussed. Theoretically, the maximal stimulation of muscle protein synthesis in the post-absorptive state in response to BCAAs alone is the difference between muscle protein breakdown and muscle protein synthesis (about 30% greater than synthesis), because the other EAAs required for synthesis of new protein can only be derived from muscle protein breakdown. Realistically, a maximal increase in muscle protein synthesis of 30% is an over-estimate because the obligatory oxidation of EAAs can never be completely suppressed. An extensive search of the literature has revealed no studies in human subjects in which the response of muscle protein synthesis to orally-ingested BCAAs alone was quantified, and only two studies in which the effect of intravenously infused BCAAs alone was assessed. Both of these intravenous infusion studies found that BCAAs decreased muscle protein synthesis as well as protein breakdown, meaning a decrease in muscle protein turnover. The catabolic state in which the rate of muscle protein breakdown exceeded the rate of muscle protein synthesis persisted during BCAA infusion. We conclude that the claim that consumption of dietary BCAAs stimulates muscle protein synthesis or produces an anabolic response in human subjects is unwarranted.

    Conclusion
    A physiologically-significant increase in the rate of muscle protein synthesis requires adequate availability of all amino acid precursors. The source of EAAs for muscle protein synthesis in the post-absorptive state is the free intracellular pool. Intracellular free EAAs that are available for incorporation into protein are derived from muscle protein breakdown. Under normal conditions about 70% of EAAs released by muscle protein breakdown are reincorporated into muscle protein. The efficiency of reincorporation of EAAs from protein breakdown back into muscle protein can only be increased to a limited extent. For this fundamental reason, a dietary supplement of BCAAs alone cannot support an increased rate of muscle protein synthesis. The availability of the other EAAs will rapidly become rate limiting for accelerated protein synthesis. Consistent with this perspective, the few studies in human subjects have reported decreases, rather than increases, in muscle protein synthesis after intake of BCAAs. We conclude that dietary BCAA supplements alone do not promote muscle anabolism.

    Thread - https://forums.steroid.com/diet-nutr...h-reality.html
    Last edited by David LoPan; 02-14-2018 at 12:10 PM. Reason: Giving credit

  3. #3
    David LoPan's Avatar
    David LoPan is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    WOW, thinking about jumping to 1 gram of tren ? IMHO that is a shit ton. Remember that tren has a rating of 500 vs 100 for test. You would need to look at something to control the Prolactin like Caber.

    What you have already have planned seems good, just work on your diet. Remember that Tren when it really kicks in will eat up a lot of Kcals.

  4. #4
    Flyboy7b2 is offline New Member
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    OK thanks David. I haven't been on the Tren all that long, really maybe just a 4-5-6 weeks max.
    And you're right - i just double checked:

    Trenbolone Enanthate : Effective Dose (Men): 200-600 mgs/wk

    I'm at 400mg, maybe i'll go to 500 to see if it changes things.

    My wife says the heat coming off me is incredible (recently). So maybe it is starting to kick in.
    Thanks sir, very much for the input.

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    David LoPan's Avatar
    David LoPan is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyboy7b2 View Post
    OK thanks David. I haven't been on the Tren all that long, really maybe just a 4-5-6 weeks max.
    And you're right - i just double checked:

    Trenbolone Enanthate : Effective Dose (Men): 200-600 mgs/wk

    I'm at 400mg, maybe i'll go to 500 to see if it changes things.

    My wife says the heat coming off me is incredible (recently). So maybe it is starting to kick in.
    Thanks sir, very much for the input.
    Oh the night sweats from tren. Drink a lot of water. Tren is a great cutter but if you are bulking on it you have to add 500-800 kcals on top of what your TDEE says you need for bulking. Your sex drive is going to go way up as well. Might want to look at Cialis as well. Lot of benefits other than the love muscles. Great pumps, lower BP, helps with BPH and Test/Estrogen ratio.

  6. #6
    Flyboy7b2 is offline New Member
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    Hey David - Yep, i've been doing 'cialis daily' for about 5 months now. Thanks for the tip on the water, 'wasn't aware of that --- or Cialis' help with the BP - which i have noticed, and was aware and helped with the BPH which was my original motivation.

    At the gym i'm going thru around 50 ozs water/workout. And waking up in middle of night thirsty... so 'will be conscious of drinking more.

    I'm definitely using Tren for adding mass. Funny - on top of everything you've already said, (which i've discovered to be 1000% true re sex drive) - I also added PT-141 to the mix, (sub-q "as needed"). WOW. Honestly, at the risk of TMI, the Tren, Cialis and PT-141 amped up things so much my wife is probably wishing she could out-source. Anyway, i'm glad i found it and if you're interested in my experience with PT-141, pm me... i'll fill you in.

    Some interesting reads on PT-141:

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/...servermagazine

    https://www.steroid.com/IPT-141.php

    Cheers!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyboy7b2 View Post
    Hi guys and gals, i'm new to the forum - sorry in advance for the long post: I'm looking for helpful advice. There are just no serious body builders at my gym, so no one to talk to.

    I'm interested in your advice on the dosages of gear i'm taking (particularly Anastrozole) and
    comments on the workout schedule i'm using.

    I get bloodwork every quarter and all good numbers.

    My issue is I feel i've hit a plateau. How much time do you serious bodybuilders spend in the gym and what kind/how much dosages of gear are you taking?)
    Welcome to the forum. I'm 58 (my profile's all messed up) and I look exactly like my avatar. To maintain that look I train 90 minutes 5 to 6 times per week. I could probably train less but I've been doing it for so long I don't know what I would do if I didn't work out.

    I've had pretty good results so far (even for being an older guy) but after my tough 2 hr+, 3x/week workouts: a) i never get DOMS even though i'm working muscles to failure b) my erections are less than what they were even at lower TestC doses, and c) i just don't feel as tired or pumped up after tough workouts. I am in the best condition of my life at 63 and even now stand among the better physiques in the gym, but my growth progress has definitely slowed. But i am also concerned about adding more gear dosages, given my age.

    As mentioned - I work out 3 times/week, 2+ hours at the gym, plus do 2.5 - 3.0 miles (30 minutes) on the eliptical every day + occasional light dumbbell work on days off.
    Your workout schedule looks fine. When you are on a cycle the Testosterone + compounds increase recovery rate so you can train harder sooner. The cycle also increase protein synthesis which means you can build muscle faster.

    Background:
    About 12 months ago, i started a basic TRT program with a FL clinic - (my T level was off the chart low). The clinic put me on Test C, HCG , Anastrozole, pinning 100 mg Test-C per week and 1 mg oral Anastrozole.

    After a couple of months, the difference in the way i felt was incredible (improved sex drive, erections and cardio stamina). I began major at-home cardio (eliptical + treadmill) + dumbbell training. I dropped from 245 lbs to 184 inside of 6 months and started a gym membership 3 months ago in pretty decent shape.
    Whoa, 245 to 184 is a great accomplishment. Congrats

    Before that - around May 2017 - i added increased gear usage, have now added 11 lbs of muscle, bmi = 13, and have worked up to the following dosages:

    (I had also started off early with Decabol 250 for 2 months, but it seemed to add a lot of water weight + i was hungry all the time, so switched over to Tren En.)

    Methandienone Injections - 150 mg/week (only on days of gym workouts - so 50 mg x 3) This holds tons of water. I don't use it anymore. I'd rather look cut and lean.
    Trenbolone Enanathate - 400 mg/week (150 + 150 + 100) This is the muther of all steroids. 400mg/wk is a good dose if you can handle the sides.
    Testosterone Cypionate - 750 mg/week (250 + 250 + 250) This is a pretty healthy dose. I run 500mg/wk when I am on a cycle.
    Anastrozole - 3 mg/week
    HCG 250 units/week I run 250iu twice a week.
    You should also run cabergoline .25mg twice per week. Caber will control your prolactin. Prolactin's the stuff your body produces after sex which kills your erection. Too much of it an you have a chance of getting gyno. Not fun.

    I'm thinking of upping the Tren dosage to 1000 mg/week and the Test C to 1000mg/week. Any issues there? I would stay at 400mg/wk for the cycle. You can make good gains and the sides are manageable
    I feel an increase in the gear dosages could speed results? Yes, of course increase in dosage will speed results. It will also increase the likelihood of anorgasmia, night sweats, irritability, erectile dysrunction, etc.
    Am i taking enough Anastrozole as it is - or at the proposed levels? Your dose looks ok.
    HCG? 250iu twice a week
    Again, run caber.

    My goals - I'd like to develop even more body-builder physique - bulk/definition and increased vascularity - and - oh yeah: getting back the hard wood in the AM when i was on basic TRT would be great. (Something changed there, so not sure why that occured.) I work out like a maniac but just not getting real mass yet. And yes - i'm afraid of getting chubby again, so maybe not eating enough protein every day or doing too much cardio?
    The increase in prolactin due to the 19nor (Tren) compound will cause the erectile issue. Run caber. Don't panic, stick with Tren/Test for the rest of the cycle and you will see results. You might want to do shorter workouts more frequently. Say, 75min/day 5 days per week instead of 2hrs+ per day 3 times per week.

    Any suggestions on how much protein to take and anyone else use BCAAs like -
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...0?ie=UTF8&th=1
    Test increase protein synthesis so you actually don't need as much as people think. If you take 1g to 1.5g per 1 pound of lean body weight that is good enough

    Lots of questions here... again, sorry for the long post but I want to make my remaining years seriously outstanding... advice/thoughts anyone...? Whew. thanks all.

    If anything here isn't allowed, admin please delete.
    Welcome to the forum. If your goal is to look lean and tight, drop the dbol shots. That just holds a ton of water and cover up all that beautiful muscles. One thing great about older body builders is that they have thinner, which is age appropriate. Eat a clean diet and with Test/Tren you'll see good results. Good luck
    Flyboy7b2 likes this.

  8. #8
    Flyboy7b2 is offline New Member
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    Thank you ScotchGuard02 for taking the time to provide such a detailed analysis.
    I really appreciate it. BTW - you look great. If i looked half as good i'd be pretty damn happy.
    I'm working on the cabergoline now.
    Cheers man... thanks again.

  9. #9
    GearHeaded is offline BANNED
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyboy7b2 View Post
    Anastrozole - 3 mg/week

    and - oh yeah: getting back the hard wood in the AM when i was on basic TRT would be great. (Something changed there, so not sure why that occured.)
    I'm pretty sure I know what happened to your morning wood.. you got on cycle and started taking a shit ton of Anastrozole!
    try cutting that dose way way down

  10. #10
    Flyboy7b2 is offline New Member
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    Wow GearHeaded - thats what i've really been wondering... Anastrozole. so instead of 3 mg/week.... maybe just 1?
    On TRT they had me on 1 mg/week. Since i amped up the gear level so much more than the TRT level, it seemed - and i read somewhere - that Anastrozole should be increased. I think you just answered a key question.

    ScotchGuard02 also recommended - Cabgolin 0.25mg Tablets | Generic Cabergoline - which i've just purchased.

    I'll keep you posted....
    Thanks man.
    B

  11. #11
    Flyboy7b2 is offline New Member
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    Ok so in looking for the ideal bulking stack...

    What about:

    TestC (750/wk) + TrenE (500/wk)
    (no sides for me at these levels)...

    HCG 250 iu 2x/wk
    REDUCE Anastrozole from 3mg to 1mg/wk
    DROP Dianabol
    REPLACE Dbol with Deca Durabolin 400/wk
    Cabergolin .25 twice/wk
    Cialis Daily (20 mg)

    Anything else? Add or drop?
    Thx,
    Brad

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