Build muscle with less effort - steroids

**Test Monsterone** · 07-07-2018, 10:30 AM

I am sort of philosophising here. I haven't started any cycle yet, but have trained for 17 years naturally. Gains have stopped or slowed down significantly a long time ago. I have borderline high blood pressure, with meds. It's around 130/75 and 65 BPM.

I have to kill myself in the gym just to see the smallest results. I'm talking 150 lb dumbbells for chest, 100 lb dumbbells for shoulders, etc. Obviously this is not good for my blood pressure, and I'm reminded by my Endo that it's dangerous to put that much strain on my heart and blood vessels during a workout.

So I'm thinking if I were taking a low dose of just Test E, say 300 mg a week, could I reduce the weights and still make gains? Or do I still need to train super hard? I would hop on the train if I could put less strain on my body and see even better results.

**suasponte1983** · 07-07-2018, 10:50 AM

You forgot to mention what is your goal? You can stimulate your muscles for grows different ways. You don’t need to be lifting extremely heavy to cause micro tears in your muscle fiber.
The question is are you doing enough to support the growth?
How your diet looks like? What supplements are you taking? How much rest do you get?
Yes with AAS you will see growth buts it’s all gone once you come off unless you’re supporting your growth properly.

**cousinmuscles** · 07-07-2018, 11:05 AM

Two major logical errors here.

AAS will enhance what you are already doing. If you do something half assed then the results will be half assed too.

If you have BP issues I'm not sure what you are thinking, you find weight training isn't good for you but think AAS are better? No, they're much worse.

**hammerheart** · 07-07-2018, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by Test Monsterone

I am sort of philosophising here. I haven't started any cycle yet, but have trained for 17 years naturally. Gains have stopped or slowed down significantly a long time ago. I have borderline high blood pressure, with meds. It's around 130/75 and 65 BPM.

I have to kill myself in the gym just to see the smallest results. I'm talking 150 lb dumbbells for chest, 100 lb dumbbells for shoulders, etc. Obviously this is not good for my blood pressure, and I'm reminded by my Endo that it's dangerous to put that much strain on my heart and blood vessels during a workout.

So I'm thinking if I were taking a low dose of just Test E, say 300 mg a week, could I reduce the weights and still make gains? Or do I still need to train super hard? I would hop on the train if I could put less strain on my body and see even better results.

What your endo says it's ridiculous and you don't even have high BP.

**Test Monsterone** · 07-07-2018, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by suasponte1983

You forgot to mention what is your goal? You can stimulate your muscles for grows different ways. You don’t need to be lifting extremely heavy to cause micro tears in your muscle fiber.
The question is are you doing enough to support the growth?
How your diet looks like? What supplements are you taking? How much rest do you get?
Yes with AAS you will see growth buts it’s all gone once you come off unless you’re supporting your growth properly.

I didn't include enough details. I'm 245 lbs at 17% bf (6'2") and I eat at least 30 g of protein with each meal, 4-5 meals a day. Low to moderate complex carbs. I pretty much do the best I can without being obsessive. For example if I go out, I'll eat a burger without the fries and mayo, and just once piece of cheese. I do two eggs and oatmeal with a scoop of whey protein. Typical meal is chicken and rice with vegetables or salad with tuna with some nuts and beans. Goal is to cut down 15 lbs and look shredded. I would have to be eating protein and water to get shredded as a natural, it's simply not doable for me.

Originally Posted by cousinmuscles

Two major logical errors here.

AAS will enhance what you are already doing. If you do something half assed then the results will be half assed too.

If you have BP issues I'm not sure what you are thinking, you find weight training isn't good for you but think AAS are better? No, they're much worse.

That's why I'm asking on here. Yes I have higher than normal BP, but as I said, I'd be doing near TRT doses and keeping a solid diet with moderate weights. My hope is that I'd be able to stop taking creatine, which probably increases my BP, and reduce the weights and be able to be leaner and bigger than I am now.

Originally Posted by hammerheart

What your endo says it's ridiculous and you don't even have high BP.

Well to be fair, it's 130/75 WITH Meds. Without I'm like 150-160/80. I take Benicar, which is not a diuretic, but I wouldn't be opposed to taking a diuretic at a small dose if I needed to.

Thanks for all your replies so far!

**i_SLAM_cougars** · 07-07-2018, 11:42 AM

AAS are going to increase your blood pressure. I’d stay away from them if I were you.

Also creatine would have no effect on blood pressure.

Whats your sodium intake like? How about caffeine?

**cousinmuscles** · 07-07-2018, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Test Monsterone

I didn't include enough details. I'm 245 lbs at 17% bf (6'2") and I eat at least 30 g of protein with each meal, 4-5 meals a day. Low to moderate complex carbs. I pretty much do the best I can without being obsessive. For example if I go out, I'll eat a burger without the fries and mayo, and just once piece of cheese. I do two eggs and oatmeal with a scoop of whey protein. Typical meal is chicken and rice with vegetables or salad with tuna with some nuts and beans. Goal is to cut down 15 lbs and look shredded. I would have to be eating protein and water to get shredded as a natural, it's simply not doable for me.

That's why I'm asking on here. Yes I have higher than normal BP, but as I said, I'd be doing near TRT doses and keeping a solid diet with moderate weights. My hope is that I'd be able to stop taking creatine, which probably increases my BP, and reduce the weights and be able to be leaner and bigger than I am now.

Well to be fair, it's 130/75 WITH Meds. Without I'm like 150-160/80. I take Benicar, which is not a diuretic, but I wouldn't be opposed to taking a diuretic at a small dose if I needed to.

Thanks for all your replies so far!

If you're going to use AAS you'll have to be on top of your BP and related issues, there are some members here who deal with this too they can probably chime in.

TRT doses are 80-100mg a week. For Nebido even less! The enanthate equivalent would be 75mg per week for a 1000mg/12week protocol with undecanoate (Nebido). Some need higher doses because they burn through it too quickly and it stoops down to low levels before next shot, but that means 150mg, it would be very rare to need more, and it will lead to other issues over time.

If you do a cycle do a proper one but in your shoes I'd ask members who have had similar issues and then research the hell out of it before you make a decision.

**Test Monsterone** · 07-07-2018, 12:17 PM

Sodium is low to moderate, I don't add salt other than a little on the eggs. Caffeine is like 1 cup a day and a diet coke or two max.

I know steroids will increase the BP, but they have always intrigued me and I want to try them once just to see. If I take care of my diet even more, eat less fats, do more cardio (I hardly do any), etc. Maybe it won't be so bad. Also if I lose weight (fat) and maintain just muscle, maybe it will balance out since I'll weigh less.

**Windex** · 07-07-2018, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Test Monsterone

I didn't include enough details. I'm 245 lbs at 17% bf (6'2") and I eat at least 30 g of protein with each meal, 4-5 meals a day. Low to moderate complex carbs. I pretty much do the best I can without being obsessive. For example if I go out, I'll eat a burger without the fries and mayo, and just once piece of cheese. I do two eggs and oatmeal with a scoop of whey protein. Typical meal is chicken and rice with vegetables or salad with tuna with some nuts and beans. Goal is to cut down 15 lbs and look shredded. I would have to be eating protein and water to get shredded as a natural, it's simply not doable for me.

This is just a bad excuse. There's no reason you cant get down to 9-10% bodyfat naturally. Using gear is just a cop out reason and from your above description your meals can definitely be improved upon. My recommendation to you is to read the sticky threads in the diet - calculate your TDEE, construct a detailed nutrition program, and go from there.

**HoldMyBeer** · 07-07-2018, 03:09 PM

Youre 32, how do you have BP issues at your age?

**Test Monsterone** · 07-07-2018, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Windex

This is just a bad excuse. There's no reason you cant get down to 9-10% bodyfat naturally. Using gear is just a cop out reason and from your above description your meals can definitely be improved upon. My recommendation to you is to read the sticky threads in the diet - calculate your TDEE, construct a detailed nutrition program, and go from there.

I know, I know. I just am a regular human being and I'm an easy gainer, so it's hard for me to mentally dedicate myself to that extreme. I already improved upon my diet by A LOT after breaking up with my ex gf. I've lost a pound every two weeks for a couple of months, but I'm still holding fat around the chest and stomach. Luckily I'm pretty big so it's distributed over a larger area, but it's there. thanks for the tips, I'll check it out.

Originally Posted by HoldMyBeer

Youre 32, how do you have BP issues at your age?

It's genetic, I've had it all my life, only found out I had it when I was 19. Just like how some people are born with diabetes, some get it later. Some people are born with high BP, some get it later.

**ScotchGuard02** · 07-08-2018, 12:40 PM

There is a trade off with AAS. You can gain muscles but the AAS can increase your cholesterol level, increase hematocrit, perhaps affect your BP, make you lose your hair, etc. Even if you get on AAS and get stronger, most guys just push more weights. They don't normally stay at their same weight and lift with less stress because they're stronger. This means that AAS won't really lower your blood pressure.

I can't tell you to run AAS or not. I can only tell you that I run AAS and manage the sides so I can have a high quality of life. Being strong is awesome. Being strong and looking lean is awesome(er), is that even a word? LOL

**guitarzan** · 07-08-2018, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02

There is a trade off with AAS. You can gain muscles but the AAS can increase your cholesterol level, increase hematocrit, perhaps affect your BP, make you lose your hair, etc. Even if you get on AAS and get stronger, most guys just push more weights. They don't normally stay at their same weight and lift with less stress because they're stronger. This means that AAS won't really lower your blood pressure.

I can't tell you to run AAS or not. I can only tell you that I run AAS and manage the sides so I can have a high quality of life. Being strong is awesome. Being strong and looking lean is awesome(er), is that even a word? LOL

Awesome er is definitely a word!

**fiddlesticks** · 07-09-2018, 06:08 AM

Jeez if you use 100lb db shoulder raises naturally how much more muscle do you expect! And 150 for chest? I find this hard to believe.

**mxgregg** · 07-09-2018, 06:27 AM

My normal blood pressure is similar to your normal pressure and I started a 400mg test cycle per week for 5 weeks and my blood pressure shot up to 170/90 so I had to stop my cycle. You will need to stay on top of your health if you want to try a cycle.

**diesel101** · 07-09-2018, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by fiddlesticks

Jeez if you use 100lb db shoulder raises naturally how much more muscle do you expect! And 150 for chest? I find this hard to believe.

I was thinking the same thing

**fiddlesticks** · 07-09-2018, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by diesel101

I was thinking the same thing

when I think of 150+ dumbbells I just think of ronnie coleman.. seriously

**Windex** · 07-09-2018, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Test Monsterone

I know, I know. I just am a regular human being and I'm an easy gainer, so it's hard for me to mentally dedicate myself to that extreme. I already improved upon my diet by A LOT after breaking up with my ex gf. I've lost a pound every two weeks for a couple of months, but I'm still holding fat around the chest and stomach. Luckily I'm pretty big so it's distributed over a larger area, but it's there. thanks for the tips, I'll check it out.

It's genetic, I've had it all my life, only found out I had it when I was 19. Just like how some people are born with diabetes, some get it later. Some people are born with high BP, some get it later.

Stomach fat is most often the last fat to go. If you can't mentally dedicate yourself without gear then using gear is not going to benefit you whatsoever - you'll be throwing money down the drain.

The mind is always breaks before the body. If you are having trouble with discipline then you should consider activities that help with it. Examples include :

- Meditation
- Yoga
- Intermittent Fasting
- Vow of Silence
- Polar Bear Swim
- Positive or Negative Reinforcement Psychology for Nutrition