What can I expect as a super-Ecto?

[TheGypsyKing]

he said he do put on weight but its usually fat .that means he is eating enough but wrong foods and most probably alot of simple carbs and saturated fats.he just needs to learn how to eat right and train right but poor guy will end up cycling and losing all the water and little muscle he gained due to poor diet .

The story of 95 percent gym goers

I eat no simply carbs. Brown rice, oats, whole wheat pasta, 7 grain bread are my only carbs. I only can gain fat, because like I said, my genes are like that. I have the physique of f*cken gisele. Me and her eat 3k calories a day and lift heavy, she'll probably have similar amount of muscle to me in the end... well not quite gisele skinny, but female level skinny.

[TheGypsyKing]

Fundamentally you are correct about weight gain, but this concerns lean muscle gain in particular.

Would you like to have the physique of Phil Heath, Ronnie Coleman or Jay Cutler?

Why don't you have it? Simply eat more, you see quality calories equals size.

Do you really think they use more AAS or "better" AAS than everyone here?

Do you really think that they have some super-secret training method that no-one else had tried?

It's genetics. Yes, its dedication & hard work. But please, we can't all be LeBron James or That Barkley dude on the NY Giants (did you see his leap over both lines from 3-4 yards out)?

That's what I'm saying. I can't be phil heath, nor do I want to at all. I want to look like antonio brown, or even odell. Not big at all, but respectably muscular. I don't have those genes though. I'm wondering what kind of gains I could see from AAS. Maybe just looking at chicks on AAS would give me a sense, since I'm not much bigger than most broads (just very shredded).

Those guys are freaks, with or without AAS.

[TheGypsyKing]

On the contrary, I think genetics is the single greatest factor, even more-so than AAS. Examples:

I'm sure I've mentioned I'm friends with a guy who weighs 235-240 lbs and he can't stomach more than 2300 calories. Meanwhile I'm eating 3600-3700 and I've capped out around 210 so I'm about to up the calories by another 200. I'm also far leaner than he is and I've never once intentionally cut before. Starting this month or next month will be my very first time doing that. He, on the other hand, has never once tried to bulk and he has more BF%, but also has bigger arms than me, despite never having once worked out for the purpose of gaining muscle by bulking. He has only ever cut and lost weight but has hit a wall with the weight loss.

I have another friend I was deployed with who started working out around the same time I did. He started at a low BF% just like I did, but in a months and a half, he put on 16 pounds, and if anything, appeared to lose fat in the process. No AAS, no supplements, half-ass training, and horrible diet. Most of his diet was hot dogs, cheese burgers, hashbrown patties, and apple sauce. And he gained muscle faster than most people on their first AAS cycle on a good diet. Granted, his gains slowed to a crawl after that because he didn't change anything he was doing, didn't increase calories or anything.

I have another friend I was also deployed with who worked out with me and he was maybe 90% as serious as I was. We were a similar size by the time we came home, but he started bigger than I was anyway. He completely stopped working out, completely stopped eating right, became a tranny a few years later and is taking estrogen...he STILL hasn't lost ANY of his gains from that deployment nearly 6 years ago. He's one of the most beastly things I've seen in a skirt. Meanwhile, if I take a week or two off, especially from the diet, I'll lose over 10 pounds by accident.

If genetics were a non-factor, we'd all look like Jay Cutler and Ronnie Coleman after a few cycles, but those guys were bigger before AAS than most people get after decades of AAS. There are plenty of people who look they are doo at least mild cycles and have perfect diets and what no, but all they do is go to the gym and eat whatever they want and they look fantastic. Most mere mortals can't get away with that.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying people should use genetics as an excuse to not put in the effort. When it comes to effort, in my opinion, there are no excuses for not putting in the work. But at the end of the day, some people are more genetically gifted than others. Some people can do 50% and get better results than others who put in 110%. That's just life.

If you still think there's no genetic difference, next time you're in the gym, pay attention to something. Look at all the black guys, and look at all the white guys, and you;ll notice a couple differences. GENERALLY speaking, black guys have better looking upper bodies and are GENERALLY leaner than white guys. But then look at their legs. White guys almost always have bigger calves than black guys. About 90% of the time, I notice this tp be true when I pay attention in the gym.

Rant over.

100% agree. If genetics didn't matter, and it was just about eating and lifting right, chicks would be winning Mr. Universe. It's like saying height doesn't have anything to do with genes, just how much broccoli and milk you consumed growing up.

1,000 different guys eat the same thing and train the same way, and you are going to have a whole variety of sizes and muscularities at the end of the day. I eat way more than my brother in law who looks like an NFL safety, west african genes.

[TheGypsyKing]

Yes... genetics are a big factor.
Which is why we're arguing that he needs a full review.
Because, genetics influence how everything works... including response to anabolics.

He needs to get all his ducks in a row.
Designing the cycle is the easiest part.

So to the OP: Again... I'm not attempting to trivialise your position.

Apologies if that was the interpretation of the delivery.
Bless.

I think people are just assuming I'm under-eating. Do I measure everything out? No. But do I absolutely eat more than guys I trained with? By easily 30%. So might I still not be eating enough for ME? Sure. But my point is that I don't gain muscle easily, no matter how much I eat. My body simply won't add it on. I will never look like tyreek hill. Neither would kevin durant, even if he trained with jay cutler.

I PROBABLY will be too shook to do an AAS cycle, cuz I have health issues, but I'm interested in it, if it could get me some good gains, which hopefully I could keep. I just know that I can't get substantial gains without them, because I've done the 3,500 calories a day, lifting heavy type deal. I get strong as shit, and look the same.

[Quester]

I think people are just assuming I'm under-eating. Do I measure everything out? No. But do I absolutely eat more than guys I trained with? By easily 30%. So might I still not be eating enough for ME? Sure. But my point is that I don't gain muscle easily, no matter how much I eat. My body simply won't add it on. I will never look like tyreek hill. Neither would kevin durant, even if he trained with jay cutler.

I PROBABLY will be too shook to do an AAS cycle, cuz I have health issues, but I'm interested in it, if it could get me some good gains, which hopefully I could keep. I just know that I can't get substantial gains without them, because I've done the 3,500 calories a day, lifting heavy type deal. I get strong as shit, and look the same.

Okay,
you know your eating problems but you have the answers already,
you do not plan to cycle because of health issues but you think you probably will not grow without them,
What questions remain?

[Proximal]

I think people are just assuming I'm under-eating. Do I measure everything out? No. But do I absolutely eat more than guys I trained with? By easily 30%. So might I still not be eating enough for ME? Sure. But my point is that I don't gain muscle easily, no matter how much I eat. My body simply won't add it on. I will never look like tyreek hill. Neither would kevin durant, even if he trained with jay cutler.

I PROBABLY will be too shook to do an AAS cycle, cuz I have health issues, but I'm interested in it, if it could get me some good gains, which hopefully I could keep. I just know that I can't get substantial gains without them, because I've done the 3,500 calories a day, lifting heavy type deal. I get strong as shit, and look the same.

May I ask what the health issues are? You did seek advice on a steroid forum.

You will gain, I personally can attest to that, in fact you can get to the level of the athletes that you indicated.

[ksingh93]

I eat oats and fruit in the a.m. with milk/soymilk. I workout before lunch, have 3 bananas, berries, 25g protein powder, soymilk smoothie. Will usually have a tuna sandwich for lunch. Dinner is usually pasta and meat sauce or fish and rice. Usually a snack of some clif bar type things and rice chips. I promise you I out-eat almost everyone I know, big and small alike. I was actually a legend growing up for my eating. I ordered things at restaurants as a kid where the waiters would say "I think this is not a good choice, very few adults can finish this," the stubborn ass I was I would say "then bring me two." Like an entire 14" large pizza and an 8" medium. I really just have a preposterous metabolism, I assure you.

This was the diet you posted out of which

3 bananas =90 g simple carbs
fruits = simple carbs/sugars
cliff bar 40 g carbs out of which 30 g are sugar

And the food you posted barely add uoto 2500 calories so please learn how to eat right .

[TheGypsyKing]

Okay,
you know your eating problems but you have the answers already,
you do not plan to cycle because of health issues but you think you probably will not grow without them,
What questions remain?

The first sentence was redundant. The second sentence overstates the sentiment that I may not ever cycle. I'm interested in exploring the option.

[TheGypsyKing]

May I ask what the health issues are? You did seek advice on a steroid forum.

You will gain, I personally can attest to that, in fact you can get to the level of the athletes that you indicated.

Serious stuff. Hyperadrenergic POTS syndrome (just google it), small fiber neuropathy, chronic angina. Illness and a bad reaction to a medication... I don't want to elaborate into the story beyond that.

[TheGypsyKing]

This was the diet you posted out of which

3 bananas =90 g simple carbs
fruits = simple carbs/sugars
cliff bar 40 g carbs out of which 30 g are sugar

And the food you posted barely add uoto 2500 calories so please learn how to eat right .

If you think fruit is simple carbs you are completely mistaken. A quick google search would rapidly debunk that notion.

Not actually clif bars, but some similar type of bar, less sugary, its like 12g of sugar, mostly nuts, and fruit.

I didn't even post amounts for my diet so your assumptions on the size of my meals is strange. I generally eat 1k of pasta alone, probably another 400 calories for the sauce. That's 1,400 calories for dinner. 2 bars and a handful of rice chips is another 450-500 calories so that's 1,900 between dinner and snacks. Tuna sandwich, bowl of oats and fruit, 3 banana and protein shake comprise more than another 600 calories.

Days when I don't eat pasta, dinners may come in closer to 800-1000 calories. Still clearing more than 2,500. My shakes and snacks alone are 1k calories.

[ksingh93]

If you think fruit is simple carbs you are completely mistaken. A quick google search would rapidly debunk that notion.

Not actually clif bars, but some similar type of bar, less sugary, its like 12g of sugar, mostly nuts, and fruit.

I didn't even post amounts for my diet so your assumptions on the size of my meals is strange. I generally eat 1k of pasta alone, probably another 400 calories for the sauce. That's 1,400 calories for dinner. 2 bars and a handful of rice chips is another 450-500 calories so that's 1,900 between dinner and snacks. Tuna sandwich, bowl of oats and fruit, 3 banana and protein shake comprise more than another 600 calories.

Days when I don't eat pasta, dinners may come in closer to 800-1000 calories. Still clearing more than 2,500. My shakes and snacks alone are 1k calories.

there is so much wrong in what you just said that i dont even know where to start.the reason for your very little muscle gain and alot of fat is right in your post but you are not the listening kind so good luck with your goals .

[Arcânn]

You're definitely getting overloaded with info, though most of that info is good. It can be a little overwhelming to take in too much at once. I find it best to start simple and go from there:

For now, don't worry about the quality of your foods, simple carbs, whatever else, worry about that AFTER you have your first steps figured out. FIRST, figure out how many calories you're eating a day in order to maintain whatever weight you're at. It'll take a few days of mapping out what you eat and stepping on the scale everyday. OR you could use a TDEE calculator to get you started, but who knows how accurate that may or may not be.

THEN, without worrying about whether it's fruit or complex carbs or whatever, figure out much of your diet is protein, fat, and carbs. When you've got that figured out, people will have more information to use in order to help you out. If you figure all that out, then alter your diet to have 1+ grams of protein per pound of body weight, you'll already be doing much better than you currently are. Then you make some more adjustments from there, with the help of these guys, while you figure out what works best for you.

In my case, it took around 6 months for me to get my diet to a point where I'm making significant changes with it. It took lots of trial and error and it's nowhere near perfect. Many on this forum would probably say my diet is trash but it's leaps and bounds ahead of where I was when I first came on this forum (what a disaster) and CERTAINLY way ahead of most people I personally know in the gym. And that's why I'm suddenly seeing results I've never seen, and I haven't TOUCHED an AAS yet.

It's worth it to get your diet down before considering AAS. Otherwise, your cycle really is for nothing. AAS will only work as well as your diet.

[Proximal]

Serious stuff. Hyperadrenergic POTS syndrome (just google it), small fiber neuropathy, chronic angina. Illness and a bad reaction to a medication... I don't want to elaborate into the story beyond that.

I do have a background in medicine. Yep, definitely not run of the mill stuff & definitely not comfortable. Congratulations for even making an attempt.

You’re going to debate about nutrition with this group till hell freezes over. But, with that said, for the most parts, their concerns about diet are correct.

From the little I know, you will have to be very conservative with your usage due to the severity of your heart condition. And, regrettably, even IF blood work determined that you had low testosterone levels , I can’t imagine many physicians going out on a limb and prescribing it. I only mention it because myself and more than a few members here got their start with TRT.

[fiddlesticks]

You really can't expect good results only eating 3500 calories a day... You definitely need more than that. Try 5000. Or maybe 6000. Literally just put a bunch of oats, chocolate milk and sugar in a bowl (my world famous weight gain dish). And by a lot, I mean 1000 calories of oats on its own. Doing this two or three times a day should be at least 200g of protein and 4000 calories. Fuck protein shakes, fuck chicken, you need calorie dense food. Honestly, fuck cheeseburgers too, those aren't even that dense. Peanut butter should be your best friend.

Also, once you start actually eating alot your natural hormones will rise, significantly. Peanut butter will get that test up and milk for the insulin /igf signaling. Thyroid and EPO as well are regulated by calorie intake.

[Arcânn]

You really can't expect good results only eating 3500 calories a day... You definitely need more than that. Try 5000. Or maybe 6000. Literally just put a bunch of oats, chocolate milk and sugar in a bowl (my world famous weight gain dish). And by a lot, I mean 1000 calories of oats on its own. Doing this two or three times a day should be at least 200g of protein and 4000 calories. Fuck protein shakes, fuck chicken, you need calorie dense food. Honestly, fuck cheeseburgers too, those aren't even that dense. Peanut butter should be your best friend.

Also, once you start actually eating alot your natural hormones will rise, significantly. Peanut butter will get that test up and milk for the insulin/igf signaling. Thyroid and EPO as well are regulated by calorie intake.

I think I can attest to the change in hormones from increasing calories. My 2nd round of bloods will hit either tomorrow or Tuesday so I should know for sure by then, but ever since I went up to 36-3700 calories, not only have I gotten bigger, but acne started popping up on my face and I feel a greater sense of...life....I guess. Just feel better overall. I'm assuming it's a rise in test, but my BW will be able to tell me for sure.

Depending on what your goals are, 3500 can be quite a bit, even for an ectomorph. I'm at ~3700 calories and I'm bigger than I've ever been, granted I'm "only" ~213 lbs. My goal is to be a little bit above Captain America's size from the movies. Some say I'm already past that but I disagree. I'm fairly close though.

If your goal, as an ecto, is to be like 240+ then yeah, eventually you need to be at 5k or so. But to me, that's an absurd amount of food. At less than 4k, people get sick just watching how much I eat. My max will be 4k.

Btw gypsy, drinking pasteurized egg whites and coffee creamer (I use sugar free) is probably the least filling protein I've ever had. You should try it. It's not calorie dense, but 1.5 cups of egg whites and less than 0.5 cups coffee creamer gives you 40g protein. That's quite a bit of bang for your buck in terms of appetite for protein.

[fiddlesticks]

I think I can attest to the change in hormones from increasing calories. My 2nd round of bloods will hit either tomorrow or Tuesday so I should know for sure by then, but ever since I went up to 36-3700 calories, not only have I gotten bigger, but acne started popping up on my face and I feel a greater sense of...life....I guess. Just feel better overall. I'm assuming it's a rise in test, but my BW will be able to tell me for sure.

Depending on what your goals are, 3500 can be quite a bit, even for an ectomorph. I'm at ~3700 calories and I'm bigger than I've ever been, granted I'm "only" ~213 lbs. My goal is to be a little bit above Captain America's size from the movies. Some say I'm already past that but I disagree. I'm fairly close though.

If your goal, as an ecto, is to be like 240+ then yeah, eventually you need to be at 5k or so. But to me, that's an absurd amount of food. At less than 4k, people get sick just watching how much I eat. My max will be 4k.

Btw gypsy, drinking pasteurized egg whites and coffee creamer (I use sugar free) is probably the least filling protein I've ever had. You should try it. It's not calorie dense, but 1.5 cups of egg whites and less than 0.5 cups coffee creamer gives you 40g protein. That's quite a bit of bang for your buck in terms of appetite for protein.

Honestly unless you are very sedentary I dont think 5000+ is that much, i can down 3000 calories in a few minutes... Even for a 200lb guy with an active job id imagine has a tdee of at LEAST 4000

[Arcânn]

Honestly unless you are very sedentary I dont think 5000+ is that much, i can down 3000 calories in a few minutes... Even for a 200lb guy with an active job id imagine has a tdee of at LEAST 4000

I have to disagree. The average person eating less than 2000 who doesn't go to the gym or anything is still overweight. Hell, most people I know who go to the gym and are bigger than I am are eating less than 3000. Some of them can't even handle eating 3000 a day, or even 2500, and they still weigh 30 pounds more than I do. I honestly don't personally know ANYONE who eats more than I do. The only one who is even possibly tied with me is 300+ lbs though, and doesn't go to the gym or anything. There are people at my gym I'm sure, who eat 4k+ but those are probably not people I'm personally acquainted with. My TDEE at 195 lbs was 3100 so I imagine at 200, it wouldn't be that much higher, and I have a semi-active job. And I'm considered an anomaly by almost everyone. So unless you are somehow living in an area where everyone is even more of ectomorph than me with much bigger stomachs than anyone I know, I don't see how the average 200 lb person could possibly have a TDEE of 4000.

Honestly, though, I'd love to know what you're eating that allows you to down 3000 calories in a few minutes. Help a brutha out haha

[fiddlesticks]

I have to disagree. The average person eating less than 2000 who doesn't go to the gym or anything is still overweight. Hell, most people I know who go to the gym and are bigger than I am are eating less than 3000. Some of them can't even handle eating 3000 a day, or even 2500, and they still weigh 30 pounds more than I do. I honestly don't personally know ANYONE who eats more than I do. The only one who is even possibly tied with me is 300+ lbs though, and doesn't go to the gym or anything. There are people at my gym I'm sure, who eat 4k+ but those are probably not people I'm personally acquainted with. My TDEE at 195 lbs was 3100 so I imagine at 200, it wouldn't be that much higher, and I have a semi-active job. And I'm considered an anomaly by almost everyone. So unless you are somehow living in an area where everyone is even more of ectomorph than me with much bigger stomachs than anyone I know, I don't see how the average 200 lb person could possibly have a TDEE of 4000.

Honestly, though, I'd love to know what you're eating that allows you to down 3000 calories in a few minutes. Help a brutha out haha

I ate 5 grilled cheese sandwiches and a bunch of chocolate milk. At 260 my TDEE is at least 6500 on a busy day, probably a bunch more than that.

[fiddlesticks]

I have to disagree. The average person eating less than 2000 who doesn't go to the gym or anything is still overweight. Hell, most people I know who go to the gym and are bigger than I am are eating less than 3000. Some of them can't even handle eating 3000 a day, or even 2500, and they still weigh 30 pounds more than I do. I honestly don't personally know ANYONE who eats more than I do. The only one who is even possibly tied with me is 300+ lbs though, and doesn't go to the gym or anything. There are people at my gym I'm sure, who eat 4k+ but those are probably not people I'm personally acquainted with. My TDEE at 195 lbs was 3100 so I imagine at 200, it wouldn't be that much higher, and I have a semi-active job. And I'm considered an anomaly by almost everyone. So unless you are somehow living in an area where everyone is even more of ectomorph than me with much bigger stomachs than anyone I know, I don't see how the average 200 lb person could possibly have a TDEE of 4000.

Honestly, though, I'd love to know what you're eating that allows you to down 3000 calories in a few minutes. Help a brutha out haha

Forgot to mention im prescribed T3 and adderall as well which when combined have an enormous thermogenic and appetite suppressing effect so that helps my TDEE greatly.

[Arcânn]

Forgot to mention im prescribed T3 and adderall as well which when combined have an enormous thermogenic and appetite suppressing effect so that helps my TDEE greatly.

It all makes sense now haha. Do you know how much protein you take in by any chance? And hey, if you can down 6500 a day, keep on truckin. That's awesome

[fiddlesticks]

It all makes sense now haha. Do you know how much protein you take in by any chance? And hey, if you can down 6500 a day, keep on truckin. That's awesome

I eat maybe 250g protein per day mostly coming from milk or cheese.

The thermogenic effect of T3 and adderall combined is absolutely ridiculous, if im taking a fair amount of both my head pretty much becomes molten. Last episode of extreme thermogenic insanity was last month when i was pouring in sweat, steam was coming off my hand and this was all while i was sitting outside in like 30 degree weather, lol.

Even with the metabolic boosting drugs and active job i can down 8000 calories in a day if I want to without a damn ounce of hesitation. Sometimes it happens on accident!