Tren Enth 10 days in?

**SampsonandDelilah** · 05-16-2019, 12:18 PM

About to hit my 4th pin of 400 weekly of Tren E (200x2) and am already experiencing some heavier than usual sides. I’ve run this same dosage twice before and managed through it but didn’t notice until much later into the cycle. This seems early seems to me...
Insomnia for sure, acid reflux, loss of appetite as a result and some irritability as well as some anxiety I’ve never experienced before. Same lab and same lot # as before. Is it psychosomatic?!
Good news is strength is up as is my vascularity, running it alongside 600 mgs of test and am do to start Mast P in 2 weeks. Considering backing down the Tren if it keeps progressing as such. I’ve always been pretty sensitive to compounds (both good and bad) but this seems so early to me. Anyone have any similar experiences?

It’s also the first time I’ve run test higher than the Tren (first two times I was slightly above TRT dosage with test)

**Old Duffer** · 05-16-2019, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by SampsonandDelilah

About to hit my 4th pin of 400 weekly of Tren E (200x2) and am already experiencing some heavier than usual sides. I’ve run this same dosage twice before and managed through it but didn’t notice until much later into the cycle. This seems early seems to me...
Insomnia for sure, acid reflux, loss of appetite as a result and some irritability as well as some anxiety I’ve never experienced before. Same lab and same lot # as before. Is it psychosomatic?!
Good news is strength is up as is my vascularity, running it alongside 600 mgs of test and am do to start Mast P in 2 weeks. Considering backing down the Tren if it keeps progressing as such. I’ve always been pretty sensitive to compounds (both good and bad) but this seems so early to me. Anyone have any similar experiences?

It’s also the first time I’ve run test higher than the Tren (first two times I was slightly above TRT dosage with test)

That's probably the diff right there. Higher test with tren! Sides may be amplified by the Higher test.. Or the higher E2

**SampsonandDelilah** · 05-16-2019, 02:50 PM

But would it ramp up that quick? Was thinking that might be the difference, because it’s the first time I’ve had the test higher. Thinking I’ll lower the test to TRT. Will that help mitigate the sides? Had always heard to run Tren higher and then found some info stating you could run test higher, thought I’d experiment

**Old Duffer** · 05-16-2019, 03:03 PM

Does seem super fast reacting. Hmmm... You didn't frontload?

For me, tren sides are tren sides. I get them all no matter what... Except the anxiety. When I tried tren-a at 450, that was a bad idea. But may not have been the tren alone. Stuff certainly works in tandem. Tren/test/estrogen/other variables

**SampsonandDelilah** · 05-16-2019, 03:20 PM

Nope, didn’t front load. I’m with you there, I anticipated the sides, although this time the anxiety is much higher and caught me off guard. I expected them to come on but not 3 jabs in...

Going to lower my test I think. Like you said maybe the E2 being higher and having a negative synergistic effect with the Tren and test is what’s giving me the issue.

The only thing I can think of as to why it cake on so quick is just my sensitivity to compounds and that it’s been a long while since I’ve run tren

**Old Duffer** · 05-16-2019, 03:26 PM

Simple enough to try it n see :-)

Everyone is different. AND every run is different! Unfortunately.

Don't be afraid to adjust on the fly. It's better than bailing completely!

**SampsonandDelilah** · 05-16-2019, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Old Duffer

Simple enough to try it n see :-)

Everyone is different. AND every run is different! Unfortunately.

Don't be afraid to adjust on the fly. It's better than bailing completely!

Good advice. I think I also assumed every run would be the same! Went wrong assuming there....

**Old Duffer** · 05-16-2019, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by SampsonandDelilah

Good advice. I think I also assumed every run would be the same! Went wrong assuming there....

Lernt that one myself. Body builds tolerance plus changes as it grows.

Couple years ago tried 700 test +A.I. Started shopping for A-cup bras! Lol

Currently 900 test, 900 mast, 1050 EQ, 500 tren , no A.I. just nolva. More estrogen than a girls volley ball team.

No way I handled this 5 years ago :-p

**SampsonandDelilah** · 05-16-2019, 04:46 PM

So you’ve got your test higher than tren too and handling it ok?!

**Old Duffer** · 05-16-2019, 05:08 PM

Back in October I tried tren -a 450, test-p 600 and kept E2 down with A.I. 2 weeks on had 2 panic attacks in 2 days. Lowered to 400/500 and was ok but switched tren to NPP shortly after and stopped crushing my E2

After GH helped me for the comp, I ran test 440, tren 280, mast 630, EQ 525, NPP 315 and no panics

Right after comp: test 175, tren 385, mast 490, NPP 385. Again no panics.

I'd run trt level test all the time but you need E2 to grow. IMO.

Side note: I always ALWAYS have ED issues with tren or NPP/deca . Tren not as bad tho

**Old Duffer** · 05-16-2019, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by SampsonandDelilah

So you’ve got your test higher than tren too and handling it ok?!

Sry. Kinda skipped your Q:

Yes.
not enough data to pinpoint why anxiety yet. Was it the tren -a/prop? (My 1st time trying it) Was it the crushed E2? Dunno. I'm gonna try the combo again only with high E2 n then I'll know!

**SampsonandDelilah** · 05-16-2019, 05:24 PM

Interesting because I’m having some ED issues for the first time ever! Never been an issue in any other tren runs (again but at 400 tren and 200 test). Now I’m high test (600) with 400 tren and ran into my first issue with the Mrs. even a 20 of pharma cialis didn’t solve the problem. Fuck man. Guess I’ll lower the test as I mentioned to TRT and keep the tren at 400.
The psychological part has been the toughest (the nerves and anxiety) and now the fear of going limp noodle again. Let’s just say that didn’t go over too well...

**Old Duffer** · 05-16-2019, 05:31 PM

Mast helps. Proviron helps. Caber helps.

I do cialis 10mg daily. I add another 10 for weekends. I then add Viagra or Levitra if it's a party weekend!

Wifee n I have, I guess, a special relationship there. She prefers me but if it's a problem, we have toys! She loves her toys too. Toys certainly do shit I can't do!!! ;-)

**SampsonandDelilah** · 05-16-2019, 05:47 PM

Was going to wait on starting the Mast P, but probably kick that into gear now and see.

Wifey and I have a similar relationship, 18 years will do that

Appreciate it!

**AR's King Silabolin** · 05-16-2019, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by SampsonandDelilah

About to hit my 4th pin of 400 weekly of Tren E (200x2) and am already experiencing some heavier than usual sides. I’ve run this same dosage twice before and managed through it but didn’t notice until much later into the cycle. This seems early seems to me...
Insomnia for sure, acid reflux, loss of appetite as a result and some irritability as well as some anxiety I’ve never experienced before. Same lab and same lot # as before. Is it psychosomatic?!
Good news is strength is up as is my vascularity, running it alongside 600 mgs of test and am do to start Mast P in 2 weeks. Considering backing down the Tren if it keeps progressing as such. I’ve always been pretty sensitive to compounds (both good and bad) but this seems so early to me. Anyone have any similar experiences?

It’s also the first time I’ve run test higher than the Tren (first two times I was slightly above TRT dosage with test)

Keep calm. Im running the same and sides kicked hard at day 10. It lasted Just a few days then it seemed the body could handle it. Sleep is stil not optimal, but sweats and aggresion isnt that big probleme anymore.

Sent fra min G3311 via Tapatalk

**SampsonandDelilah** · 05-16-2019, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by AR's King Silabolin

Keep calm. Im running the same and sides kicked hard at day 10. It lasted Just a few days then it seemed the body could handle it. Sleep is stil not optimal, but sweats and aggresion isnt that big probleme anymore.

Sent fra min G3311 via Tapatalk

Test at 600 or TRT range? Either way, good to know! I’ll keep calm and carry on.

How about Little King Silabolin? Any issues there in the beginning too or G2G?

**Slacker78** · 05-17-2019, 01:09 AM

Often it's not the amount of androgens or estrogens you have inside your body, but the ratio among them. You can experiment specific symptoms if you have e.g 600/200 androgens/estrogens ratio and they could disappear when this ratio is lower as 400/200. It depends about your body and how it reacts to the hormones and especially their ratio. I remember when i did Tren A for the first time... after few hours i felt like under narcotics... after, i didn't feel nothing in the next days like now, i didn't experiment those symptoms anymore, even under Tren A at higher dosages. Yes, i often got panic attacks and even if they could be by E2 fluctuations, it could be often caused from an unusual ratio androgens/estrogens your body it's not perfectly adjusted... in time, it will adjust by itself even not at all, because there's always a limit your body can handle without suffer strong and unmanageable symptoms. Even in that case, low is better. So if your E2 is under control, than adjust/lower androgens level and/or remove/reduce some compound if you're taking AAS in stack.

**redz** · 05-17-2019, 05:25 AM

Earlier this year I was running 350mg Tren E, 200mg Tren ace, 120mg deca with only 250mg Test e and it was perfect. Just finishing up a run of 900mg deca with 250mg Test e and both these phases had no ai. Low test works so well for me I’m still shocked everyday. Best shape of my life last check 239.6lbs and still around 9-10%bf. I used to run test higher but it just causes side effects. If you want to run more test run high test by itself or with a dht.

**SampsonandDelilah** · 05-17-2019, 05:49 AM

Originally Posted by Slacker78

Often it's not the amount of androgens or estrogens you have inside your body, but the ratio among them. You can experiment specific symptoms if you have e.g 600/200 androgens/estrogens ratio and they could disappear when this ratio is lower as 400/200. It depends about your body and how it reacts to the hormones and especially their ratio. I remember when i did Tren A for the first time... after few hours i felt like under narcotics... after, i didn't feel nothing in the next days like now, i didn't experiment those symptoms anymore, even under Tren A at higher dosages. Yes, i often got panic attacks and even if they could be by E2 fluctuations, it could be often caused from an unusual ratio androgens/estrogens your body it's not perfectly adjusted... in time, it will adjust by itself even not at all, because there's always a limit your body can handle without suffer strong and unmanageable symptoms. Even in that case, low is better. So if your E2 is under control, than adjust/lower androgens level and/or remove/reduce some compound if you're taking AAS in stack.

Definitely going to redo my rations.
Lowering test to 300 (from 600) and going to run tren lower as well at 375 (the most successful range I’ve done in the past). Higher tren then test as Duffer suggested and as I’ve done in the past. More is not better. I am going to add Mast P on as well a little earlier than before at 100 EOD and see if that helps and if I doesn’t I can count on being out of my system faster. Thanks for the reply

**SampsonandDelilah** · 05-17-2019, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by redz

Earlier this year I was running 350mg Tren E, 200mg Tren ace, 120mg deca with only 250mg Test e and it was perfect. Just finishing up a run of 900mg deca with 250mg Test e and both these phases had no ai. Low test works so well for me I’m still shocked everyday. Best shape of my life last check 239.6lbs and still around 9-10%bf. I used to run test higher but it just causes side effects. If you want to run more test run high test by itself or with a dht.

Nice work Redz! I think I’m in the same boat with test, think I just do better with lower dosages. I’m sitting at 253 and 9% BF and think I’ll benefit more from moderate tren , low test and this will be my first mast run but excited for the different things it provides. Still trying to understand why I was driven to run test that high...just figured more is better I guess

**Mooseman33** · 05-17-2019, 06:25 AM

brotha i think age plays a role. Im 4 weeks into a low dose tren ace, mast, trt test and the tren is fucking kicking my ass the last couple days.
I have not ran this shit in years, 40 now and im struggling today, to point of thinking of dumping it and just running the mast and test.

good luck bro

**SampsonandDelilah** · 05-17-2019, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by Mooseman33

brotha i think age plays a role. Im 4 weeks into a low dose tren ace, mast, trt test and the tren is fucking kicking my ass the last couple days.
I have not ran this shit in years, 40 now and im struggling today, to point of thinking of dumping it and just running the mast and test.

good luck bro

Shit, didn’t even think of that. You’re right though, nothings gotten easier each year. I’m 44 in 3 weeks so I bet you’re correct. Been a while since I’ve run tren too. The insomnia has been legit but I was prepared for that, the anxiousness yesterday and the way my heart was pumping had me thinking about abandoning ship too. Going to lower the test as suggested and see if my body acclimates as suggested and just take it week to week. Not sure if the juice is worth the squeeze if you know what I’m saying.

Thanks bro

**Test Monsterone** · 05-17-2019, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by Old Duffer

Mast helps. Proviron helps. Caber helps.

I do cialis 10mg daily. I add another 10 for weekends. I then add Viagra or Levitra if it's a party weekend!

Wifee n I have, I guess, a special relationship there. She prefers me but if it's a problem, we have toys! She loves her toys too. Toys certainly do shit I can't do!!! ;-)

God damn... 10 mg daily? I get headaches and feel like crap from 10 mg for like 2 days. Cialis doens't do much for me. For me viagra works best, especially if I'm drinking. Hangover boners on viagra are legit.

**Old Duffer** · 05-17-2019, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Test Monsterone

God damn... 10 mg daily? I get headaches and feel like crap from 10 mg for like 2 days. Cialis doens't do much for me. For me viagra works best, especially if I'm drinking. Hangover boners on viagra are legit.

Perfect example of 'people are different' lol! I'm the exact opposite! I can only do half dose Viagra n have to chase it with IBUs for the headache.

Cialis is magic for me but so Damn expensive

**Mooseman33** · 05-17-2019, 09:23 AM

duff have u tried val cialis?

**Old Duffer** · 05-17-2019, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by Mooseman33

duff have u tried val cialis?

Yup :-)

My 'expensive' comment was directed at script cialis btw.

**Old Duffer** · 05-17-2019, 09:36 AM

Afa the age thing, I'm fast approaching 58 so my battle with libido/ED is rooted in age n prostate issues. Then amplify it with a shitload of 19-nors and I have to sometimes throw everything but the kitchen sink at it!

I do well on 5mg/day cialis ... If no tren or deca !

**SampsonandDelilah** · 05-17-2019, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Old Duffer

Yup :-)

My 'expensive' comment was directed at script cialis btw.

I’m lucky, a good buddy is an Eli Lilly Rep, he loaded me up on 5 and 20 mg sample boxes. The stuff congests me like no other and gives me heartburn but it’s a small price to pay for some confidence and sturdiness! But last weekend it didn’t help, the high test took over and I think I was a bit in my head too. Amazing how the mental game can impact performance too. Excited to get the Mast P on board and back down the test. My redemption song is coming...

**Windex** · 05-20-2019, 07:01 PM

To fix appetite: Remove all caffeine/stimulant related products from diet and use 1000mcg of Injectable B12/day

To fix other side effects: Switch to injecting 3 times per week instead of 2.

I mostly use Tren Hex now and even with that long of an ester I still inject 3x per week.

Another option (in addition to or separate) is to scale back down to TRT dose for Test and cut it with either Mast, EQ, or Primo. (Ie drop from 600 to 200mg of Test and add in 400mg of one of the previous)

**SampsonandDelilah** · 05-20-2019, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Windex

To fix appetite: Remove all caffeine/stimulant related products from diet and use 1000mcg of Injectable B12/day

To fix other side effects: Switch to injecting 3 times per week instead of 2.

I mostly use Tren Hex now and even with that long of an ester I still inject 3x per week.

Another option (in addition to or separate) is to scale back down to TRT dose for Test and cut it with either Mast, EQ, or Primo. (Ie drop from 600 to 200mg of Test and add in 400mg of one of the previous)

Scaled back Test to 250 mgs per week and added Mast P EOD. Sides seems to be getting better. Appetite is still meh, going to try and ditch my coffee and try the B12. Will try and pin the Tren 3x too since I’m already running the Mast frequently

Thanks!

**DeeCee112** · 05-21-2019, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by SampsonandDelilah

Scaled back Test to 250 mgs per week and added Mast P EOD. Sides seems to be getting better. Appetite is still meh, going to try and ditch my coffee and try the B12. Will try and pin the Tren 3x too since I’m already running the Mast frequently

Thanks!

I've been firing 1000mcg b12 a couple times a week. May be placebo but has seemed to help with overall wellness.