Coming back after a failed first cycle

[zigzagzig]

You won't be able to bulk on Tren in a second cycle.

Tren is out of my radar for a second or third one.

[zigzagzig]

My concern now is how to better keep the gains. What do you guys think from these two option, or feel free to call another one:

1) Don't do a PCT and stay at TRT levels + HGH 2iu until the second one
2) Do a regular PCT + HGH and wait up to everything is back on track to go to the second cycle

[Obs]

Trt no pct

[Obs]

My current mindset is to cycle heavy enough to reach my goals and then reduce the pace just to keep them in place. I'm getting great results so far on the first cycle, I've come from 180lbs to 199 now on my 8th week. However, a first bulk cycle seems to be the most straightforward one. With a relatively low dosage Test and a standard macro counting, the gains come easily. Once you go to the 5th, 6th and so one, there are naturally diminishing returns. The care with nutrients become more challenging and the dosages and mixing are a trial and error. As long as I keep improving, have time, and my overall health allows for it, I'll keep in this path. Certainly, if I had started in my late 20s or early 30s it would be different. I just don't want to create unfeasible expectations when I just turned 37.

The diminishing returns happen because just maintaining takes all most have.

Once you leave you take ten hard steps back and re-evaluate.

The line you just said was what I thought.
215-220 and trt on out.

Nope.
Think more along the lines of 190 after a year.

If it takes it to get you there you will need nearly equal to maintain.

You can check out any time you like but you can never leave.

[Family_guy]

I never had high hemotocrit until eq.

Thats a crazy statement.
The ways AAS cause the elevation are still not fully known as of 2018.

I wouldnt venture out to get a newbie to run that high of a dose.

700 took me to 183/107 bp.

Everything is individual specific

I wasn’t suggesting OP use a G of EQ. I was saying I would do that if I was to do it over. It’s so mild!! Plus having high hemocrit on its own isn’t a bad thing at all. You think elite endurance athletes have normal hemo?? Why do you think so many cyclists use EPO and other blood doping techniques? Same reason to increase their capacity to carry oxygen in the blood therefore increase endurance.

Anyways op can do whatever he wants but with eq there’s no reason to go less than 800mg in this situation imho. He’s using it as the primary anabolic in his planned next cycle. So I don’t see any reason to go low on the eq. I would say eq is maybe half as strong as test at best...

[i_SLAM_cougars]

I just wouldn’t use EQ in a two compound cycle, unless it was a cruise.

Trade it out for DHB. Trade it out for Primo. Trade it out for Deca .

You could add EQ into the mix with any of those. I just wouldn’t use it as my primary.

[zigzagzig]

The diminishing returns happen because just maintaining takes all most have.

Once you leave you take ten hard steps back and re-evaluate.

The line you just said was what I thought.
215-220 and trt on out.

Nope.
Think more along the lines of 190 after a year.

If it takes it to get you there you will need nearly equal to maintain.

You can check out any time you like but you can never leave.

Certainly, 215-220 is a first bet goal. But that would mean to have the next cycles as productive as this first one. I'm making my research on that. How long from the end of a 12week cycle to the beginning of the next when on TRT?

[Family_guy]

I just wouldn’t use EQ in a two compound cycle, unless it was a cruise.

Trade it out for DHB. Trade it out for Primo. Trade it out for Deca .

You could add EQ into the mix with any of those. I just wouldn’t use it as my primary.

Can’t argue with this at all...

[Windex]

Certainly, 215-220 is a first bet goal. But that would mean to have the next cycles as productive as this first one. I'm making my research on that. How long from the end of a 12week cycle to the beginning of the next when on TRT?

The next cycle is based off

- Bloodwork
- Overall well being
- Compounds + Dosages used in prior cycle
- How optimized your HRT program is relative to your goals

There's no magical number of weeks before there's a green light. Everyone responds differently. At the end of the day, food is going to be more anabolic than anything going into a syringe or capsule.

There's nothing wrong with converting to HRT, especially in your 30's , but you really need to understand what you are going to be signing up for. You are marrying the needle for the rest of your life. In 5-10 years something changes, you better buy a lottery ticket expecting to come off HRT and be okay.

Nobody is ever going to make a convincing argument that PCT is good for a bodybuilding perspective over being on HRT. However...

Points to consider

- Can you afford it ? (Test is cheap, but there's also bloodwork, HCG , supplies, your time investment, etc).

- Are you going to use UGL or get it scripted? Do you know the advantages and disadvantages of both?

- What are your world goals? Do you want to travel europe ? Do you want to live on an island ?

- Do you recognize what an optimized HRT Program looks like ? Test and/or Test+HCG is nowhere close to a proper HRT protocol.

These are just some of many topics you want to have an honest thought to yourself about. If it was me, I would need more than a few weeks to make a decision that's going to impact the rest of my life.

[zigzagzig]

The next cycle is based off

- Bloodwork
- Overall well being
- Compounds + Dosages used in prior cycle
- How optimized your HRT program is relative to your goals

There's no magical number of weeks before there's a green light. Everyone responds differently. At the end of the day, food is going to be more anabolic than anything going into a syringe or capsule.

There's nothing wrong with converting to HRT, especially in your 30's , but you really need to understand what you are going to be signing up for. You are marrying the needle for the rest of your life. In 5-10 years something changes, you better buy a lottery ticket expecting to come off HRT and be okay.

Nobody is ever going to make a convincing argument that PCT is good for a bodybuilding perspective over being on HRT. However...

Points to consider

- Can you afford it ? (Test is cheap, but there's also bloodwork, HCG , supplies, your time investment, etc).

- Are you going to use UGL or get it scripted? Do you know the advantages and disadvantages of both?

- What are your world goals? Do you want to travel europe ? Do you want to live on an island ?

- Do you recognize what an optimized HRT Program looks like ? Test and/or Test+HCG is nowhere close to a proper HRT protocol.

These are just some of many topics you want to have an honest thought to yourself about. If it was me, I would need more than a few weeks to make a decision that's going to impact the rest of my life.

True, there's a lot to consider. Ideally, I'd like to do a PCT once a year before summer. Not sure if that's possible. My doctor is OK on putting me on TRT.

[Obs]

Certainly, 215-220 is a first bet goal. But that would mean to have the next cycles as productive as this first one. I'm making my research on that. How long from the end of a 12week cycle to the beginning of the next when on TRT?

If you are on trt blast when you are ready.
Thats all gonna depend on you.

[Obs]

I wasn’t suggesting OP use a G of EQ. I was saying I would do that if I was to do it over. It’s so mild!! Plus having high hemocrit on its own isn’t a bad thing at all. You think elite endurance athletes have normal hemo?? Why do you think so many cyclists use EPO and other blood doping techniques? Same reason to increase their capacity to carry oxygen in the blood therefore increase endurance.

Anyways op can do whatever he wants but with eq there’s no reason to go less than 800mg in this situation imho. He’s using it as the primary anabolic in his planned next cycle. So I don’t see any reason to go low on the eq. I would say eq is maybe half as strong as test at best...

It is in no way comparable with epo and the offsets took my bp to over 180

No absolutely not, no one needs to make the correlation that an endurance athlete and a bb on heavy aas is any way the same.

Endurance athletes build their tolerance to lactic acid and their muscles dont require a tenth the oxygen to get the same movement done.

Understand...

The mechanisms by which AAS increases hematocrit is still unknown as of 2018.

Now people can make assumptions all the want but when my hematocrit is elevated I am bordering a cardiac event.

I have taken more nors than most here will ever dream of and never once had hematocrit outside of mid range.

A little stent of eq at 700mg caised my power red to be rejected and my bp to prevent me from donating the first time I tried.

No.... High hematocrit is no good for me.

You realize why my power red was rejected?
My blood would have plugged their centrifuge up.

Yeah... Sounds healthy as fuck lol

[Obs]

I wasn’t suggesting OP use a G of EQ. I was saying I would do that if I was to do it over. It’s so mild!! Plus having high hemocrit on its own isn’t a bad thing at all. You think elite endurance athletes have normal hemo?? Why do you think so many cyclists use EPO and other blood doping techniques? Same reason to increase their capacity to carry oxygen in the blood therefore increase endurance.

Anyways op can do whatever he wants but with eq there’s no reason to go less than 800mg in this situation imho. He’s using it as the primary anabolic in his planned next cycle. So I don’t see any reason to go low on the eq. I would say eq is maybe half as strong as test at best...

I might call you a gh parrot if you keep looking at me in that tone of voice

Btw, eq has been the most useless compound I ever touched. Thus far I was always told by the old status quo:

#1 EQ elevates hematocric more than any compound you will find.

#It is basically useless.

So far it has rang true. Not that I wanted them to be right.

We are all different and thats probably why you shouldnt assume elevated hematocrit is a good thing. Especially when you dont know what causes it and sure dont seem to understand what it does to me.

Total blood volume always seemed to be an issue for me but nothing compared to my last donation.

I couldnt move without sweating a gallon and nearly blowing my heart up.

[Obs]

And suck it fg!
Suck it hard!

[Obs]

I love you

[charger69]

I love you

Huuuhhhmmmmm
I’m watching!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[zigzagzig]

Hey guys,
I'm on my 11th week out of 12. I reached 205lbs two weeks ago, but I got sick, dropped to 198 and now I'm at 202lbs. With one more week to go, I'm planning my post cycle as a Test C 150mg/week (75 x2) plus HGH 2iu 5on/2off. I wonder if you guys could help me on how long should I wait before the second cycle. I'm currently considering 10 weeks, but I'm not sure if that's enough.

[Windex]

Hey guys,
I'm on my 11th week out of 12. I reached 205lbs two weeks ago, but I got sick, dropped to 198 and now I'm at 202lbs. With one more week to go, I'm planning my post cycle as a Test C 150mg/week (75 x2) plus HGH 2iu 5on/2off. I wonder if you guys could help me on how long should I wait before the second cycle. I'm currently considering 10 weeks, but I'm not sure if that's enough.

As previously mentioned, proper bloodwork and listening to your body is going to tell you how long to recover. Setting some arbitrary number of weeks is setting yourself up to fail.

If you decided to go to HRT instead of PCT show me what your proposed HRT program is going to be (hint : A doctor scripting Test + HCG is a not a HRT program)

[zigzagzig]

As previously mentioned, proper bloodwork and listening to your body is going to tell you how long to recover. Setting some arbitrary number of weeks is setting yourself up to fail.

If you decided to go to HRT instead of PCT show me what your proposed HRT program is going to be (hint : A doctor scripting Test + HCG is a not a HRT program)

Thanks for the feedback. Indeed, I'm familiar with a standard PCT protocol to come off AAS, but I don't know nothing about a good protocol for HRT. Could you shed me some light here?

[Windex]

Thanks for the feedback. Indeed, I'm familiar with a standard PCT protocol to come off AAS, but I don't know nothing about a good protocol for HRT. Could you shed me some light here?

Spoon feeding a cookie cutter HRT program is not going to benefit you and it's going to vary person to person. Start by reading the HRT stickies and getting lots of bloodwork after cycle.

Recognize you are marrying a needle. I would also reread Post #49

You can follow up after that and we can go from there.

[zigzagzig]

Spoon feeding a cookie cutter HRT program is not going to benefit you and it's going to vary person to person. Start by reading the HRT stickies and getting lots of bloodwork after cycle.

Recognize you are marrying a needle. I would also reread Post #49

You can follow up after that and we can go from there.

Thanks again for the feedback. Here are my answers to each question on post #49

- Can you afford it ? (Test is cheap, but there's also bloodwork, HCG , supplies, your time investment, etc).
Yes.


- Are you going to use UGL or get it scripted? Do you know the advantages and disadvantages of both?

Scripted only Test C from the doctor, I may get HCG as well. The rest will be from ugl. My understanding is that scripted will allow me to bring it while I do air travel, also it is more potent. Please, correct me if I'm wrong or if there's something missing.


- What are your world goals? Do you want to travel europe ? Do you want to live on an island ?
If they are scripted, I can travel, right?


- Do you recognize what an optimized HRT Program looks like ? Test and/or Test+HCG is nowhere close to a proper HRT protocol.

I've red many posts on the TRT section. Mostly they recommend to inject E3D and every 6 weeks, I should retest for SHBG, LH/FSH, PSA, Estradiol (sensitive LC/MS/MS method), Lipids, CMP, CBC. I should use the results of these tests to determine if I need a dose adjustment and/or need an AI.
For the the AI part, I believe it should be related to the estradiol levels. If they are too high I should start some adex. Please, correct if I'm wrong. Please, correct me if I'm wrong. Now, related to the other tests, what will be the readings I should be aiming for to decide if I'm ready for the next cycle?