Results 1 to 22 of 22
Like Tree25Likes
  • 2 Post By Obs
  • 1 Post By Obs
  • 1 Post By Family_guy
  • 2 Post By i_SLAM_cougars
  • 1 Post By HoldMyBeer
  • 1 Post By Family_guy
  • 1 Post By GearHeaded
  • 3 Post By Obs
  • 3 Post By GearHeaded
  • 1 Post By Family_guy
  • 1 Post By Obs
  • 1 Post By Family_guy
  • 2 Post By GearHeaded
  • 3 Post By GearHeaded
  • 1 Post By Family_guy
  • 1 Post By GearHeaded

Thread: Test Suspension Shutdown??

  1. #1
    Family_guy's Avatar
    Family_guy is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    The gym
    Posts
    1,683

    Test Suspension Shutdown??

    I was thinking if someone were to shoot some test suspension while they werenít on cycle would it be enough to shut them down to a significant degree or at all for that matter?? I feel like because itís in and out so quickly I canít imagine the HPTA reacting quickly enough to cause any shit down really. If you were to do say 100mg of test suspension pre workout for example maybe once every week or two would that effect your HPTA enough to be noticeable??

  2. #2
    Obs's Avatar
    Obs
    Obs is online now "Convert Emotion to Willpower"
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    18,659
    Quote Originally Posted by Family_guy View Post
    I was thinking if someone were to shoot some test suspension while they weren’t on cycle would it be enough to shut them down to a significant degree or at all for that matter?? I feel like because it’s in and out so quickly I can’t imagine the HPTA reacting quickly enough to cause any shit down really. If you were to do say 100mg of test suspension pre workout for example maybe once every week or two would that effect your HPTA enough to be noticeable??
    Hell no.
    12 weeks or so wont hurt nothing but you need to add tren and masteron .

    Tren and mast protect you atph from stoppin.

    I read in in a book about stuff.
    Family_guy and HoldMyBeer like this.

  3. #3
    Obs's Avatar
    Obs
    Obs is online now "Convert Emotion to Willpower"
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    18,659
    It would knock your natural levels flat and testes would cease production.

    It would be pointless. No gain no profit only loss.


    You dont need more kids.
    Shit I will give you one of my gfs kids.
    HoldMyBeer likes this.

  4. #4
    Family_guy's Avatar
    Family_guy is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    The gym
    Posts
    1,683
    Quote Originally Posted by Obs View Post
    It would knock your natural levels flat and testes would cease production.

    It would be pointless. No gain no profit only loss.


    You dont need more kids.
    Shit I will give you one of my gfs kids.
    Lmao I’m actually gonna get a vasectomy soon...

    I just started thinking about this cuz I did one shot of suspension like 2 weeks ago even though I’m not on cycle anymore just to see what would happen. I’m not planning on doing test suspension anymore but the thought occurred to me that I don’t think it could actually shut you down since it’s in and out so quickly
    Obs likes this.

  5. #5
    i_SLAM_cougars's Avatar
    i_SLAM_cougars is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,270
    Quote Originally Posted by Family_guy View Post
    Lmao I’m actually gonna get a vasectomy soon...

    I just started thinking about this cuz I did one shot of suspension like 2 weeks ago even though I’m not on cycle anymore just to see what would happen. I’m not planning on doing test suspension anymore but the thought occurred to me that I don’t think it could actually shut you down since it’s in and out so quickly
    I’m pretty sure even long Esther test test takes 4-5 weeks to fully shut you down.
    Obs and Family_guy like this.

  6. #6
    HoldMyBeer is online now Productive Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,782
    I would tend to think that the main factor is the duration of a cycle. So shooting suspension would just cause very slight shutdown that would go away very quickly.
    However, but Obs is right, you may get a good workout, but you're only opening yourself up to risks with little to no benefit
    Obs likes this.

  7. #7
    Family_guy's Avatar
    Family_guy is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    The gym
    Posts
    1,683
    Quote Originally Posted by HoldMyBeer View Post
    I would tend to think that the main factor is the duration of a cycle. So shooting suspension would just cause very slight shutdown that would go away very quickly.
    However, but Obs is right, you may get a good workout, but you're only opening yourself up to risks with little to no benefit
    Like I said I wasn’t planning on doing this lol. It was just an interesting thought. That does make a lot of sense though about it being more about the duration that causes shutdown
    HoldMyBeer likes this.

  8. #8
    GearHeaded's Avatar
    GearHeaded is online now Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    6,321
    most guys don't realize that even when they get on a cycle of test and get blood work done 6 weeks in , the total ng/dl of test is the combined endogenous and exogenous test. your not even fully suppressed at this point and your still making natty test. the body has been making natty test naturally for decades.. there is not some magic switch that is suddenly switched to turn that off just cause you injected some test . full HPTA shut down takes quite a long time

    also why I'm not a fan of doing PCT after every single cycle.. its over kill.

    you can run test suspension off and on pre workout and not worry too much about total HPTA suppression or doing any sort of PCT
    Family_guy likes this.

  9. #9
    Obs's Avatar
    Obs
    Obs is online now "Convert Emotion to Willpower"
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    18,659
    Basal leuteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) became undetectable 2 weeks after the start of 250 and 500 mg/wk TC injections and were lost within 5 to 6 weeks of starting 100 mg doses. Pituitary gonadotropin responses to leutinizing hormone releasing hormone (LHRH) disappeared more slowly with FSH responses being lost 1 to 3 weeks after the loss of basal FSH activity. Leuteinizing hormone responses to LHRH appeared to be suppressed last, disappearing 4 to 6 weeks after FSH responses to LHRH.

    CONCLUSIONS: Exogenous testosterone -mediated inhibitory influences on the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis were reversed following the cessation of drug treatment.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9394096/


    How long do LH levels take to decrease natural production?

    Seems to me at a dose like that you are just trading off exogenous for natural test and at a dose of 100mg would be less egfective than natural production.

  10. #10
    GearHeaded's Avatar
    GearHeaded is online now Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    6,321
    I think 6 weeks is about that mark . not dose dependent . old school guys used to blast 4-6 week long cycles and then come off in an attempt to avoid total natty test suppression. of course they never F'd around with PCT

    now days.. staying on for most the year and rotation of compounds is the most ideal/optimal . its a big commitment but real gains require big commitments
    i_SLAM_cougars, Obs and Family_guy like this.

  11. #11
    Obs's Avatar
    Obs
    Obs is online now "Convert Emotion to Willpower"
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    18,659
    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    I think 6 weeks is about that mark . not dose dependent . old school guys used to blast 4-6 week long cycles and then come off in an attempt to avoid total natty test suppression. of course they never F'd around with PCT

    now days.. staying on for most the year and rotation of compounds is the most ideal/optimal . its a big commitment but real gains require big commitments
    Thats no kidding on the commitment part.

  12. #12
    Family_guy's Avatar
    Family_guy is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    The gym
    Posts
    1,683
    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    most guys don't realize that even when they get on a cycle of test and get blood work done 6 weeks in , the total ng/dl of test is the combined endogenous and exogenous test. your not even fully suppressed at this point and your still making natty test. the body has been making natty test naturally for decades.. there is not some magic switch that is suddenly switched to turn that off just cause you injected some test . full HPTA shut down takes quite a long time

    also why I'm not a fan of doing PCT after every single cycle.. its over kill.

    you can run test suspension off and on pre workout and not worry too much about total HPTA suppression or doing any sort of PCT
    That makes a lot of sense. It’s not like test suspension is an incredible pre workout anyways so it’s really not worth it but this is an interesting discussion.
    Obs likes this.

  13. #13
    Obs's Avatar
    Obs
    Obs is online now "Convert Emotion to Willpower"
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    18,659
    Quote Originally Posted by Family_guy View Post
    That makes a lot of sense. It’s not like test suspension is an incredible pre workout anyways so it’s really not worth it but this is an interesting discussion.
    !?

    Are you cutting again?

    Test suspension is a great preworkout!
    Family_guy likes this.

  14. #14
    Family_guy's Avatar
    Family_guy is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    The gym
    Posts
    1,683
    Quote Originally Posted by Obs View Post
    !?

    Are you cutting again?

    Test suspension is a great preworkout!
    Lmao! It’s more powerful when you’re not on cycle that’s for sure. It actually hit me pretty good.
    Obs likes this.

  15. #15
    Obs's Avatar
    Obs
    Obs is online now "Convert Emotion to Willpower"
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    18,659
    Quote Originally Posted by Family_guy View Post
    Lmao! It’s more powerful when you’re not on cycle that’s for sure. It actually hit me pretty good.
    How much at once?

  16. #16
    Family_guy's Avatar
    Family_guy is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    The gym
    Posts
    1,683
    Quote Originally Posted by Obs View Post
    How much at once?
    The last time I did it I did 120mg

  17. #17
    GearHeaded's Avatar
    GearHeaded is online now Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    6,321
    Quote Originally Posted by Family_guy View Post
    The last time I did it I did 120mg
    if I remember correctly your messing around with some insulin as well .. try running 200mg of Test suspension pre workout with 10iu slin pre and 15iu post. add 20mg of Dbol as a cherry on top.. do that for about 4-5 days in a row (with proper intra workout nutrition). in a week let me know if your about 7 pounds heavier and getting massive skin splitting pumps and recovering really well
    Obs and Family_guy like this.

  18. #18
    Family_guy's Avatar
    Family_guy is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    The gym
    Posts
    1,683
    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    if I remember correctly your messing around with some insulin as well .. try running 200mg of Test suspension pre workout with 10iu slin pre and 15iu post. add 20mg of Dbol as a cherry on top.. do that for about 4-5 days in a row (with proper intra workout nutrition). in a week let me know if your about 7 pounds heavier and getting massive skin splitting pumps and recovering really well
    I am still doing some experimenting with insulin . Honestly not consistently enough to. Make a difference in sure. I am always interested In the experiment part of all this! Maybe next cycle I will do a real insulin protocol. I will definitely add in some dbol

  19. #19
    HoldMyBeer is online now Productive Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,782
    Quote Originally Posted by Family_guy View Post
    I am still doing some experimenting with insulin. Honestly not consistently enough to. Make a difference in sure. I am always interested In the experiment part of all this! Maybe next cycle I will do a real insulin protocol. I will definitely add in some dbol
    I have always heard "insulin is more anabolic than testosterone "
    But Dave Crossland, who became monstrously big, said it's not necessary and he never used it
    Fuad abiad (spelling?) never uses it, hates it, and says it's unnecessary.
    I've also heard a bunch of very qualified coaches say it as well. I am starting to wonder if it just makes you're muscle look bigger because it drives in more glycogen temporarily and helps you recover faster. And if your recovery is already good it doesn't make a difference

  20. #20
    GearHeaded's Avatar
    GearHeaded is online now Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    6,321
    Quote Originally Posted by HoldMyBeer View Post
    I have always heard "insulin is more anabolic than testosterone "
    But Dave Crossland, who became monstrously big, said it's not necessary and he never used it
    Fuad abiad (spelling?) never uses it, hates it, and says it's unnecessary.
    I've also heard a bunch of very qualified coaches say it as well. I am starting to wonder if it just makes you're muscle look bigger because it drives in more glycogen temporarily and helps you recover faster. And if your recovery is already good it doesn't make a difference
    theres a big difference between someone like Dave Crossland who became huge, but also 40% body fat and zero aesthetics WIHOUT using insulin ,, and someone like Ronnie Coleman who became 315 pounds and huge at 6% body fat with great aesthetics WITH insulin . Ronnie was an avid hgh and insulin user (his coach was Chad Nichols who is a big proponent of slin use),, Ronnies was 230 ponds and placing last place and shows before he started his slin protocol.
    again, to get huge and grossly fat at the same time like Dave Crossland, insulin is not necessary. just lots of junk food. you do know there are women out there that are way bigger then Dave Crossland and they don't take AAS or insulin . just 15,000 cals of mcdonalds every day. this shows that getting huge that drugs aren't necessary (plenty of 400+ pound all natty women out there)

    another person Ronnies coach helped come up and become another 330+ pound bodybuilder and lean (at a super young age of 25) with insulin use ,, Dallas McCarver (rip).
    Insulin became rampant in high level NPC and IFBB in the mid 90s and since then we've got more and more jacked lean and huge bodybuilders.

    I would guess that 85% of high level bodybuilders use slin or have used it to help put on quality size.

    however some guys like Fouad Abiad have had some success as a pro and don't use ,, now Fouad has used it in the past. he choses not to use it because of the way it makes him feel,, he says it makes him lethargic. which is common with an insulin spike and carbs to most people. he was using pre workout (per his coach at the time). he didn't want to train feeling lethargic. he probably would of had better luck running it late in the day with his last couple meals instead of just pre workout.

    Insulin can be a game changer for a lot of guys . heck look at at our very own member here Charger. 2 years ago he was 180 pounds. I helped him set up his first insulin protocol and he's been running it ever since and now he is a lean 230+ pounds and has 3 first place show finishes under his belt this year.


    insulin is very anabolic. everyone talks about protein and amino acids and quality nutrients are needed to be anabolic and build muscle . well how the heck you think those amino acids, water, creatine, etc. get into the muscle cell in the first place . INSULIN . its the key that opens the cells and transports the nurtrients (most these nutrients catch a ride with glucose being put into muscle cells as glycogen.. insulin is the driver of this).

    without any insulin at all (wither exogenous on endogenous) you would shrivel up and die. nobody can get big without insulin. natty or not.. even natural lifters who get big , these guys are likely still producing a shit ton of natty insulin in order to drive all these proteins and nutrients into muscle cells.

    insulin has other indirect anabolic properties . it blunts/supresses cortisol (a catabolic hormone), it also promotes the production of hepatic IGF output (IGF being another very anabolic hormone).


    is exogenous insulin use necessary ? no . but it can be a game changer .. sure Arnold did not use it. but still insuliin played a role in the development of his physique through his diet . the reason insulin is not "necessary" per se is because we can produce up to 100+ iu per day of our own insulin through diet manipulation . so insulin no matter what in one way or another still plays a role.
    however exogenous insulin will just amplify this and allow you to fine tune things and have super compensation effects and drive even more nutrients.


    note - and insulin can be more anabolic then testosterone . look at women who lift (and don't use test) who put on quality muscle tissue with very little to no natty test . they just have estrogen and insulin to build muscle. Yes again they have to have some amount of insulin to build muscle,, wither natty production of it, or if they were diabetic then exogenous production. Women can produce 100+iu of insulin per day and build plenty of muscle , yet can't produce shit for Testosterone .
    shows which one is actually more anabolic. take away test and only leave estrogen and insulin and some women can get pretty jacked. now take a male who has 10x the amount of test as the women, but who also has low estrogen and is diabetic (and not taking his insulin and not producing any) and he likely won't put on any muscle (in fact he'll likely die) . the test by itself isn't powerful enough to do shit for him

    ^ however having said that .. the combination of high Test (androgens) with high estrogen plus Insulin , all together , can build a lot more muscle due to super compensation and synergy effects
    Last edited by GearHeaded; 09-15-2019 at 10:15 AM.

  21. #21
    Family_guy's Avatar
    Family_guy is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    The gym
    Posts
    1,683
    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    theres a big difference between someone like Dave Crossland who became huge, but also 40% body fat and zero aesthetics WIHOUT using insulin ,, and someone like Ronnie Coleman who became 315 pounds and huge at 6% body fat with great aesthetics WITH insulin . Ronnie was an avid hgh and insulin user (his coach was Chad Nichols who is a big proponent of slin use),, Ronnies was 230 ponds and placing last place and shows before he started his slin protocol.
    again, to get huge and grossly fat at the same time like Dave Crossland, insulin is not necessary. just lots of junk food. you do know there are women out there that are way bigger then Dave Crossland and they don't take AAS or insulin . just 15,000 cals of mcdonalds every day. this shows that getting huge that drugs aren't necessary (plenty of 400+ pound all natty women out there)

    another person Ronnies coach helped come up and become another 330+ pound bodybuilder and lean (at a super young age of 25) with insulin use ,, Dallas McCarver (rip).
    Insulin became rampant in high level NPC and IFBB in the mid 90s and since then we've got more and more jacked lean and huge bodybuilders.

    I would guess that 85% of high level bodybuilders use slin or have used it to help put on quality size.

    however some guys like Fouad Abiad have had some success as a pro and don't use ,, now Fouad has used it in the past. he choses not to use it because of the way it makes him feel,, he says it makes him lethargic. which is common with an insulin spike and carbs to most people. he was using pre workout (per his coach at the time). he didn't want to train feeling lethargic. he probably would of had better luck running it late in the day with his last couple meals instead of just pre workout.

    Insulin can be a game changer for a lot of guys . heck look at at our very own member here Charger. 2 years ago he was 180 pounds. I helped him set up his first insulin protocol and he's been running it ever since and now he is a lean 230+ pounds and has 3 first place show finishes under his belt this year.


    insulin is very anabolic . everyone talks about protein and amino acids and quality nutrients are needed to be anabolic and build muscle . well how the heck you think those amino acids, water, creatine, etc. get into the muscle cell in the first place . INSULIN . its the key that opens the cells and transports the nurtrients (most these nutrients catch a ride with glucose being put into muscle cells as glycogen.. insulin is the driver of this).

    without any insulin at all (wither exogenous on endogenous) you would shrivel up and die. nobody can get big without insulin. natty or not.. even natural lifters who get big , these guys are likely still producing a shit ton of natty insulin in order to drive all these proteins and nutrients into muscle cells.

    insulin has other indirect anabolic properties . it blunts/supresses cortisol (a catabolic hormone), it also promotes the production of hepatic IGF output (IGF being another very anabolic hormone).


    is exogenous insulin use necessary ? no . but it can be a game changer .. sure Arnold did not use it. but still insuliin played a role in the development of his physique through his diet . the reason insulin is not "necessary" per se is because we can produce up to 100+ iu per day of our own insulin through diet manipulation . so insulin no matter what in one way or another still plays a role.
    however exogenous insulin will just amplify this and allow you to fine tune things and have super compensation effects and drive even more nutrients.


    note - and insulin can be more anabolic then testosterone . look at women who lift (and don't use test) who put on quality muscle tissue with very little to no natty test . they just have estrogen and insulin to build muscle. Yes again they have to have some amount of insulin to build muscle,, wither natty production of it, or if they were diabetic then exogenous production. Women can produce 100+iu of insulin per day and build plenty of muscle , yet can't produce shit for Testosterone .
    shows which one is actually more anabolic. take away test and only leave estrogen and insulin and some women can get pretty jacked. now take a male who has 10x the amount of test as the women, but who also has low estrogen and is diabetic (and not taking his insulin and not producing any) and he likely won't put on any muscle (in fact he'll likely die) . the test by itself isn't powerful enough to do shit for him

    ^ however having said that .. the combination of high Test (androgens) with high estrogen plus Insulin , all together , can build a lot more muscle due to super compensation and synergy effects
    I really like that example of women building muscle without test!!
    GearHeaded likes this.

  22. #22
    GearHeaded's Avatar
    GearHeaded is online now Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    6,321
    Quote Originally Posted by Family_guy View Post
    I really like that example of women building muscle without test!!
    of course they would build more muscle with a combo of - Insulin , Estrogen, and Androgens .. but it goes to show the power of just Insulin itself and estrogen itself. plenty of jacked women out there that don't rely on test or androgens. and they probably look way better then any man that has all the testosterone in the world but has zero estrogen or insulin
    Family_guy likes this.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •