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Thread: 3rd cycle feedback

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    jackfrost88 is offline Associate Member
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    3rd cycle feedback

    Hey all, a little bit of history:

    1st cycle 400test(1-12) +40mg tbol (1-7)
    2nd cycle 300test(1-12) + 600eq (1-12)

    Stats: 5'11 210lbs ~15%bf have showing abs and muscle definition

    Recovery was very quick and did not have any low energy or dreaded low T symptoms coming off.

    So after my last cycle I have been committed to bodybuilding and have been following a fasted cardio in the morning, 2 hour workout and strict 6 meals a day of clean ~5000-6000cal and managed to put on 12lbs of quality mass off cycle in the last 7months or so. Now it is time to do cycle #3!

    I was going to start it when I'm cutting to preserve lean tissue - should be a couple of months from now.

    Was thinking 300test (1-12) + 500-600 primo (1-12). Reason being primo being touted as an amazing steroid for cutting and the 300test to put my levels above average (believe I had a blood level of 1500 on 400test)

    I know this is not as much as many people on here are taking but I got so much out of the 400test and then the test and eq that I really don't see a reason to jam up the dosages as I continue to make steady progress.

    Thoughts?
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    300 test and 600 Primo for a cut .. love it, thats a good ratio (I'd be adding some synergy compounds though).

    my main question though would be , we are going into winter now, your only 210 pounds at your height . why are you doing a 12 week cut ? seems a bit of a waste of time and 2 steps backwards for whats probably your over all goal . why not mini cut for 4 weeks, then go right back to building quality muscle tissue
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    300 test and 600 Primo for a cut .. love it, thats a good ratio (I'd be adding some synergy compounds though).

    my main question though would be , we are going into winter now, your only 210 pounds at your height . why are you doing a 12 week cut ? seems a bit of a waste of time and 2 steps backwards for whats probably your over all goal . why not mini cut for 4 weeks, then go right back to building quality muscle tissue
    I am still bulking for 2-3 more months. Should be around 215 by the end and will cut to see how I look since I am not super low body fat . 215 for me is not small lol

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    I wouldn't be doing 2 hours of weights in a single session personally. My form would go downhill and risk injury or spinning tires / wasting time.

    Cycle itself is fine.

    5000-6000 calories is a huge delta. Generally when people say their daily intake is a difference of up to 1000 calories a day their diet calculations are extremely off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackfrost88 View Post
    I am still bulking for 2-3 more months. Should be around 215 by the end and will cut to see how I look since I am not super low body fat . 215 for me is not small lol
    well to put it in perspective , in classic physique for someone 5'11'' tall, the weight cap is 215 pounds (at about 5% body fat).. if you were to get down to stage ready lean your weight would likely be about 180 pounds (loss of 10% body fat = 20 pounds, and add a loss of 10 pounds of water weight) . so your about 35 pounds under weight and under sized compared to a classic physique competitor.

    I'm not assuming you want to look anything like a classic physique competitor, I'm just making a point about where you'd likely be at if you got really lean. you'd be pretty thin for 5'11'' . spending 3-4 months losing weight early on in ones bodybuilding career just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me (its time you could be growing and adding muscle). utilizing only your 3rd cycle just to lose body fat does not make a lot of sense to me either, when your receptors are likely fresh and responsive and could be gaining muscle instead.

    again, your abut 35 pounds down in size compared to a classic physique competitor . you have a whole LOT of growing to do in order to achieve that type of look. personally I'd be spending the next 3 years and the next 5-8 cycles focused just on building muscle. nothing wrong with using short mini cuts on occasion of like 4 weeks just to stay somewhat lean and improve insulin sensitivity.. but spending a whole 12 weeks and your whole 3rd cycle losing weight just seems like a long time and counter productive . 12 weeks is basically the time line of a contest prep. would make sense if perhaps you had a solid reason to do that, like perhaps you were going to get on stage and compete as a thin mens physique competitor (even then you may be a bit under sized).

    BUT I'm just assuming. I don't know what your long term goals are.. but I generally always recommend guys that are new to the scene and new to running gear to utilize their first few years of running gear to focus on trying to add as much muscle as possible and not bother with cutting, especially if your already in a generally healthy range of body fat to begin with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    I wouldn't be doing 2 hours of weights in a single session personally. My form would go downhill and risk injury or spinning tires / wasting time.

    Cycle itself is fine.

    5000-6000 calories is a huge delta. Generally when people say their daily intake is a difference of up to 1000 calories a day their diet calculations are extremely off.
    5000 on low carb days 6000 on high carb days. 2 hours is total time at the gym including cardio / warm up so probably 1.5 hours which seems to be working nicely.

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    Don't have any aspirations to compete at the moment as I am not far enough along to consider it yet IMO. 180 sounds like it would be damn near impossible for me to make but I haven't tried a super cut and pulling water etc. Classic guys at my height cut from 250 then? Wouldn't they just be bodybuilders basically at that size?

    Good advice though - I'm making good progress so no reason to begin cutting and hindering gains. May adjust cycle for a lean bulking phase then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackfrost88 View Post
    5000 on low carb days 6000 on high carb days. 2 hours is total time at the gym including cardio / warm up so probably 1.5 hours which seems to be working nicely.
    That’s a lot, what are your maintenance calories?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wannabhuge14 View Post
    That’s a lot, what are your maintenance calories?
    That is putting me about 500 over maintenance and have been gaining 0.5lb - 1lb per week for last 7months staying in the same condition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackfrost88 View Post
    Don't have any aspirations to compete at the moment as I am not far enough along to consider it yet IMO. 180 sounds like it would be damn near impossible for me to make but I haven't tried a super cut and pulling water etc. Classic guys at my height cut from 250 then? Wouldn't they just be bodybuilders basically at that size?

    Good advice though - I'm making good progress so no reason to begin cutting and hindering gains. May adjust cycle for a lean bulking phase then.
    well that 180 number is basically just based on math, so its pretty accurate. your 210 pounds now, 10% of that is 21 pounds.. so if you went down from 15% body fat to 5% you'd loose about 21 pounds to achieve that levels of leaness . but, don't forget that in order to lose that much body fat your going to have to be in a pretty big calorie deficit and likely low carbs and high amounts of cardio ,, and so thats naturally going to result in a big drop in water retention . I generally see guys drop on average about 10 pounds of just water weight when dieting down to extreme leaness , and thats not trying to get 'dry' or cutting water or salt or anything trying to make weight , thats just a natural water weight loss that happens when dieting down to extreme leaness.

    so the math puts you at about 30 pounds of weight loss in order to get contest lean. 210 minus 30 is 180 pounds. so based on the math I don't think its impossible at all, actually think its highly likely . IF you were to get contest lean (ie, 5% body fat)..

    but I doubt your wanting to get contest lean. I was just using that as an example. basically a comparison to where your level of muscularity is at compared to a classic physique competitor..
    I've done similar comparisons with myself . at 5'9" tall and 212 pounds and maybe 13% body fat,, if I were to cut down to contest shape, I'd be too small imo. I still need to keep adding more size.


    Classic pros like Arash Rhabar that competes at 5'11'' tall and 215 pounds hovers around 250 in the off season (still lean). he looks like a open bodybuilder training in the gym with a hoodie on . he's got 21" arms..
    obtaining a physique like his, even though he competes in the classic division (which is a smaller guys division), requires a ton of muscle to be put on.. If I remember correctly, I think Arash has stated that he spent 12 years bulking. he didn't cut until he prepped for his first contest


    also of note, the more muscle you put on now, the easier it will be to get leaner later on.
    Last edited by GearHeaded; 10-07-2019 at 10:20 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackfrost88 View Post
    That is putting me about 500 over maintenance and have been gaining 0.5lb - 1lb per week for last 7months staying in the same condition.
    that is good progress for sure , especially considering you were running a PCT then completely off cycle most that time

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackfrost88 View Post
    Good advice though - I'm making good progress so no reason to begin cutting and hindering gains. May adjust cycle for a lean bulking phase then.
    Again I am not sure 100% what your goals are because I don't think they were clearly lined out. In first post you said your getting into bodybuilding, then later on you said you have no interest in competing so I am confused. Personally, I still think the tale end of your comment above is wrong. When you "cut", you are above the final weight that you would like to "cut" to. At your height and weight, you still have LOTS of muscle to put on. I wouldn't worry about a lean bulking phase - go full on bulk. Yeah your gonna be huge, but when you get off cycle and start to lean out you'll drop some of that weight and water retention and be looking great. That's my opinion. I am 6'2'' and started cycling @ 190lbs. I didn't even think of doing a cut until years later (actually this year, this current cycle) when I was 255 - and that's to get my physique to looking like a buff model - not anywhere close to competing.
    Last edited by djnuffsaid; 10-07-2019 at 11:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by djnuffsaid View Post
    Again I am not sure 100% what your goals are because I don't think they were clearly lined out. In first post you said your getting into bodybuilding, then later on you said you have no interest in competing so I am confused. Personally, I still think the tale end of your comment above is wrong. When you "cut", you are above the final weight that you would like to "cut" to. At your height and weight, you still have LOTS of muscle to put on. I wouldn't worry about a lean bulking phase - go full on bulk. Yeah your gonna be huge, but when you get off cycle and start to lean out you'll drop some of that weight and water retention and be looking great. That's my opinion. I am 6'2'' and started cycling @ 190lbs. I didn't even think of doing a cut until years later (actually this year, this current cycle) when I was 255 - and that's to get my physique to looking like a buff model - not anywhere close to competing.
    When I say a cut I'm not referring to a competition cut just a calorie deficit to lose fat. Currently lean bulking and 0.5lb to 1lb of good weight each week would there be any merit to just going for a full on dirty bulk? Like I am putting on a lot of size currently and adjusting food up every 3 weeks or so. On track for 25lbs of good mass for the year (drug free). On drugs and a dirty bulk it would be even more, not sure if i want to blow up like 50lbs in a year.
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    Any comments on the cycle itself? I'm happy to discuss my training/diet and bulking / cutting phases but that wasn't really the point of my thread.

    Anyone experienced with primo? Dosage for it is effective? What to expect in user's opinions? Anything to watch out for? Compounds that synergize nicely?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackfrost88 View Post
    Any comments on the cycle itself? I'm happy to discuss my training/diet and bulking / cutting phases but that wasn't really the point of my thread.

    Anyone experienced with primo? Dosage for it is effective? What to expect in user's opinions? Anything to watch out for? Compounds that synergize nicely?
    your cycle is basically just above a cruise cycle .. 300mg of test is high dose TRT (which is totally fine). 600mg of Primo is a good anabolic dosage. but your not going to get any androgen load or estrogen load from that at all. in fact you'll likely feel like your not even on cycle at all with that type of cycle (which is something that I consider a good thing, but only while cruising) . you'll think primo is weak. but its not. you just can't feel it because all it does is up regulate protein synthesis and not much else (you can't "feel" protein synthesis)..

    I would add Deca to this cycle . works great with Primo to help sensitize you to estrogens anabolic effects (primo by itself does the opposite). I would then rotate in androgens or orals at various points in the cycle

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    your cycle is basically just above a cruise cycle .. 300mg of test is high dose TRT (which is totally fine). 600mg of Primo is a good anabolic dosage. but your not going to get any androgen load or estrogen load from that at all. in fact you'll likely feel like your not even on cycle at all with that type of cycle (which is something that I consider a good thing, but only while cruising) . you'll think primo is weak. but its not. you just can't feel it because all it does is up regulate protein synthesis and not much else (you can't "feel" protein synthesis)..

    I would add Deca to this cycle . works great with Primo to help sensitize you to estrogens anabolic effects (primo by itself does the opposite). I would then rotate in androgens or orals at various points in the cycle
    Awesome thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackfrost88 View Post
    5000 on low carb days 6000 on high carb days. 2 hours is total time at the gym including cardio / warm up so probably 1.5 hours which seems to be working nicely.
    Curious as to how you calculated your caloric needs. I'm at 252 lbs and 5k calories.

    Not many people use Primo because people think it's snake oil (forever faked - though not actually the case) and have a poor understanding of the compound and it's role. I bet there's tons of people who got real primo and accused it of being fake because they didn't take 5-10 minutes to understand the history and basic science behind it.

    With that being said there's only 2-3 labs in Canada I'd ever buy Primo from.

    Deca is cute and all but if you're a person who cycles+PCT I personally would advise against Nandrolone .
    Last edited by Windex; 10-07-2019 at 07:25 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    Curious as to how you calculated your caloric needs. I'm at 252 lbs and 5k calories.

    Not many people use Primo because people think it's snake oil (forever faked - though not actually the case) and have a poor understanding of the compound and it's role. I bet there's tons of people who got real primo and accused it of being fake because they didn't take 5-10 minutes to understand the history and basic science behind it.

    With that being said there's only 2-3 labs in Canada I'd ever buy Primo from.

    Deca is cute and all but if you're a person who cycles+PCT I personally would advise against Nandrolone.
    Working with a coach and what we did was start out at ~3500 calories and just monitored my weight / progress and over time have been adding more and more calories. For example, I'm eating 3 cups of rice as a carb for 4/6 meals on high carb day but started out with 2. I was losing weight up until we added calories up to around 4500cals. So basically that's the number I have arrived on working up the amount I've been eating over 7months or so.

    e.g. of high carb day.
    meal 1 :1/2 litre egg whites, 1 1/2 cup oats, flax oil
    meal 2: 6oz chicken 3 cups rice 1 cup green veggies

    intra-workout: bcaa / fast acting carb / glutamine (total ~250cal)
    post workout: fast acting carb drink (~300-400cal)

    meal 3: same as 2
    meal 4: same as 2
    meal 5: same as 2 + 2 tsp beanut butter
    meal 6: 500ml egg whites 1/2 cup oats, 2 tsp peanut butter

    Comes out to close to 6k cal then the amount of rice or carb gets dropped on lower days.

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    6000 cals per day with mainly just 6oz of chicken and egg whites as a protein source sounds highly un-doable to me.

    6000 cals coming from 12oz of steak, ground beef, and whole eggs, sounds a lot more realistic .

    if you add up meal 2 (which is the only solid meat meal you list), its only 40g of protein and 150g of carbs.. thats only 760 cals .
    of course adding peanut butter and oils will increase the total cals..


    also, why is your coach having you eat only egg whites for protein, and then adding in fats from oils and peanut butter ? doesn't make a lot of sense. just eat whole eggs and more easily get the fat content and cals up and get more protein per serving as well..

    its like someone who is dieting for a show, and 4 weeks out they switch all their meats to lean fish like cod (which they will say "tightens the skin" which it actually doesn't it just helps you get more shredded cause its so low calorie and lean), and then they defeat the purpose of eating that lean fish by adding in fats like peanut butter and oils to that same meal.. makes no sense. the purpose of going lean fish is to purposely go low fat and lower cals. adding a bunch of fat/oil to your cod is equivalent to just eating a steak


    I think you'd be growing way better and more realistically hitting that 6000 cal mark using red meat and whole eggs , not small portions of chicken and egg whites
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    balance is offline Associate Member
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    210 lbs with a tdee of 4500 calories!
    What kind of work do you do?


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    Quote Originally Posted by balance View Post
    210 lbs with a tdee of 4500 calories!
    What kind of work do you do?
    this , if its the case, is where I'd actually run some thyroid meds and clen during a bulk. even though clen and T3 are often times used for cutting, they can be used for bulking.. by adding clen at low dose and a very low dose of T3 (like 12.5 mcg per day) and then adding a little bit of fats to each meal, you can actually better slow things down and assimilate things way better..

    if your metabolism is naturally producing say 35mcg of T3 per day, and your naturally revving very fast and burning right through things like lean chicken and rice or egg whites to the point you require 6000 cals a day at only 210 pounds to gain body weight,, then you need to make some metabolic changes.
    you need to slow things down..

    adding red meats to the diet with most the meals, whole eggs, more fat, etc.. will slow things down. adding T3,Clen, and HGH, together at low dose will also slow things down . you'll be able to grow off far less calories and not have to stuff yourself with lean chicken and egg whites
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackfrost88 View Post
    Working with a coach and what we did was start out at ~3500 calories and just monitored my weight / progress and over time have been adding more and more calories. For example, I'm eating 3 cups of rice as a carb for 4/6 meals on high carb day but started out with 2. I was losing weight up until we added calories up to around 4500cals. So basically that's the number I have arrived on working up the amount I've been eating over 7months or so.

    e.g. of high carb day.
    meal 1 :1/2 litre egg whites, 1 1/2 cup oats, flax oil
    meal 2: 6oz chicken 3 cups rice 1 cup green veggies

    intra-workout: bcaa / fast acting carb / glutamine (total ~250cal)
    post workout: fast acting carb drink (~300-400cal)

    meal 3: same as 2
    meal 4: same as 2
    meal 5: same as 2 + 2 tsp beanut butter
    meal 6: 500ml egg whites 1/2 cup oats, 2 tsp peanut butter

    Comes out to close to 6k cal then the amount of rice or carb gets dropped on lower days.
    As GH said, the diet is backwards. It's a cookie cutter macro only focused, with no consideration for micro nutrients.

    Egg Whites + Peanut butter instead of say red meat, is like buying a Ferrari, and then replacing the tires with ones from Walmart.

    If that was my coach I'd fire him and ask for a refund.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    If that was my coach I'd fire him and ask for a refund.
    I agree with both Windex and GH. I have no idea how your getting to 6000cals a day with just chicken, egg whites and rice. It appears that diet is something you would find as a diet "guide", that is meant to be tweaked to your body and situation but has yet to be tweaked.

    I know you said - "I'm happy to discuss my training/diet and bulking / cutting phases but that wasn't really the point of my thread" - that discussing your diet wasn't the point of your thread but, correct me if I'm wrong, your trying very hard to reach a goal you have set for yourself. Gear alone is not going to achieve that goal for you, diet is the most important part of the equation. If I were in your shoes I would be jumping for joy that some of the more knowledgeable members here are willing to help you with your diet to achieve your goal. Remember, just because your trainer/coach said something doesn't make it necessarily right. I would gather information from multiple sources and then make up your mind from there. I remember a couple threads ago we were talking about training and several members said their first coach trained them to go to failure on every set and they trained that way for years and years until reading and learning for themselves and coming on to boards like these. When they switched their training around they made tremendous gains. Just some, excuse the pun, food for thought!
    Last edited by djnuffsaid; 10-08-2019 at 02:06 PM.

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    This was a rough outline to illustrate the calories quickly - when I say 6oz chicken that is an interchangeable with turkey, cod, ground beef, ill do eggs sometimes - but always a clean protein choice.

    Rice I interchange with potatoes, rice cereal, sweet potatoes etc.

    Vegetables are low sugar and I do spinach, frozen mixed blend and other assortments.

    If I ate only chicken and rice I would kill myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by balance View Post
    210 lbs with a tdee of 4500 calories!
    What kind of work do you do?


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    Work in an office and out of home lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackfrost88 View Post
    This was a rough outline to illustrate the calories quickly - when I say 6oz chicken that is an interchangeable with turkey, cod, ground beef, ill do eggs sometimes - but always a clean protein choice.
    just curious .. what dictates an "unclean" meat/protein source ?


    I'm not giving you a hard time , I'm actually curious to know what you think .. if you say something like 'bacon' , well bacon is mainly a fat source (and it can be plenty "clean") and thats why Keto freaks are so big on bacon because of its fat content, that fat content in no way makes it "dirty"..
    so what is "clean" protein ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    just curious .. what dictates an "unclean" meat/protein source ?


    I'm not giving you a hard time , I'm actually curious to know what you think .. if you say something like 'bacon' , well bacon is mainly a fat source (and it can be plenty "clean") and thats why Keto freaks are so big on bacon because of its fat content, that fat content in no way makes it "dirty"..
    so what is "clean" protein ?
    Clean protein = boiled chicken
    dirty protein = fried chicken

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    just curious .. what dictates an "unclean" meat/protein source ?


    I'm not giving you a hard time , I'm actually curious to know what you think .. if you say something like 'bacon' , well bacon is mainly a fat source (and it can be plenty "clean") and thats why Keto freaks are so big on bacon because of its fat content, that fat content in no way makes it "dirty"..
    so what is "clean" protein ?
    Go off a sheet but basically clean would be protein sources such as chicken, turkey, steak, ground beef, cod, tuna, whole eggs. I would consider bacon dirty along with protein sources such as heavily fatty cuts of meat or things that are processed / preserved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by i_SLAM_cougars View Post
    Clean protein = boiled chicken
    dirty protein = fried chicken

    what if you cook your fried chicken yourself using all organic chicken, almond and oat powder in place of flour, and Mac nut oil
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    what if you cook your fried chicken yourself using all organic chicken, almond and oat powder in place of flour, and Mac nut oil
    If you’re telling me that makes it clean, then I’m telling you boiled chicken is about to get booted off my menu

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    the thing is , most people consider stuff that is high in saturated fat as "dirty", and things that are low as "clean" (like cod and chicken breast)

    but saturated fat is an essential nutrient for muscle growth.. not dirty at all .. if I'm in a gaining phase I'm eating red meat, fatty cuts of chicken (like thighs) and pouring butter and sour cream on everything I can .


    fat content itself does not make anything dirty . it actually makes things more healthy (again its an essential nutrient) .. but your right, with some fatty meats like bacon, its pumped full of a lot of chemicals and preservatives
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_SLAM_cougars View Post
    If you’re telling me that makes it clean, then I’m telling you boiled chicken is about to get booted off my menu
    Fk that shit .. ok so I would slow cook some BBQ flavored chicken thighs. a bunch of them.. put that into your Tupperware for the week to eat and thank me later

  33. #33
    jackfrost88 is offline Associate Member
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    My diet and training is dedicated at this point - thought people would be more impressed that a person my size is able to get down 5-6k calories of quality food while going balls out at the gym, doing cardio every morning and not having any cheats (other than cheat day of course). This has led to a quality gain of 12lbs in 7mo's naturally which is pretty amazing I like to think.

    Always room for improvement and I appreciate the feedback!

    Can tell my body is ready for this next cycle and is going to explode. Will keep a log again in member results!
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  34. #34
    GearHeaded's Avatar
    GearHeaded is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackfrost88 View Post
    My diet and training is dedicated at this point - thought people would be more impressed that a person my size is able to get down 5-6k calories of quality food while going balls out at the gym, doing cardio every morning and not having any cheats (other than cheat day of course). This has led to a quality gain of 12lbs in 7mo's naturally which is pretty amazing I like to think.

    Always room for improvement and I appreciate the feedback!

    Can tell my body is ready for this next cycle and is going to explode. Will keep a log again in member results!

    we are all just a bunch of meat head assholes , and so nothing will really ever impress us (other then ourselves).

    so take that into consideration . we are all selfish dick heads with egos (if you've been around the gym long enough you already know this)


    but to be blunt.. there is nothing impressive about having to put down 6000 cals a day to gain some weight.. in fact its just the opposite. I would hate to have to put down 6000 cals a day just to gain 12 pounds in 7 months .
    YES you've made great progress. your on the right track .. but having to eat that much to make gains is not something to brag about nor will guys be impressed by it.

    its like having to take 3000mg of test just to get some gains .. umm well thats not anything to brag about really.


    gaining 20 pounds with say only 2800 cals a day,, staying super lean etc.. now thats impressive.

    I think the whole "youtube" eating videos, calorie challenges, 10k cals a day challenges , etc.. have warped peoples perspectives. having to eat big to get big is not impressive at all (and it comes with more health consequences then steroids themselves) . getting big with a well controlled low calorie but healthy diet is impressive

  35. #35
    jackfrost88 is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    we are all just a bunch of meat head assholes , and so nothing will really ever impress us (other then ourselves).

    so take that into consideration . we are all selfish dick heads with egos (if you've been around the gym long enough you already know this)


    but to be blunt.. there is nothing impressive about having to put down 6000 cals a day to gain some weight.. in fact its just the opposite. I would hate to have to put down 6000 cals a day just to gain 12 pounds in 7 months .
    YES you've made great progress. your on the right track .. but having to eat that much to make gains is not something to brag about nor will guys be impressed by it.

    its like having to take 3000mg of test just to get some gains .. umm well thats not anything to brag about really.


    gaining 20 pounds with say only 2800 cals a day,, staying super lean etc.. now thats impressive.

    I think the whole "youtube" eating videos, calorie challenges, 10k cals a day challenges , etc.. have warped peoples perspectives. having to eat big to get big is not impressive at all (and it comes with more health consequences then steroids themselves) . getting big with a well controlled low calorie but healthy diet is impressive
    No bragging whatsoever, just being honest with what I am doing. Having a fast metabolism is also an asset.. even I know this and am no where near as knowledged as you GH .

    Didn't start eating this much as previously stated but that is what my body is needing so that's what we are giving it!
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  36. #36
    djnuffsaid is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    we are all just a bunch of meat head assholes , and so nothing will really ever impress us (other then ourselves).

    so take that into consideration . we are all selfish dick heads with egos (if you've been around the gym long enough you already know this)


    but to be blunt.. there is nothing impressive about having to put down 6000 cals a day to gain some weight.. in fact its just the opposite. I would hate to have to put down 6000 cals a day just to gain 12 pounds in 7 months .
    YES you've made great progress. your on the right track .. but having to eat that much to make gains is not something to brag about nor will guys be impressed by it.

    its like having to take 3000mg of test just to get some gains .. umm well thats not anything to brag about really.


    gaining 20 pounds with say only 2800 cals a day,, staying super lean etc.. now thats impressive.

    I think the whole "youtube" eating videos, calorie challenges, 10k cals a day challenges , etc.. have warped peoples perspectives. having to eat big to get big is not impressive at all (and it comes with more health consequences then steroids themselves) . getting big with a well controlled low calorie but healthy diet is impressive
    Couldn't agree more. About the asshole part and the high cal/not impressive, low cal/impressive.
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  37. #37
    balance is offline Associate Member
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    3rd cycle feedback

    Warning selfish d*ckhead comment incoming!

    Iím sorry but unless you live on several acres that require heavy consistent landscaping by you I find it extreme hard to believe that your tdee is 4500 calories at 210 lbs. If you worked construction or manual labor the number is believable but working from home not so much. Furthermore eating 6k calories daily while each meal only has around 6-8 ounces of clean protein (clean here meaning below 10% fat by volume) makes things even more suspect. Something or somethings are off here. Seriosly I donít mean this as a personal attack but things just doesnít add up.

    Hereís the thing though if you have made good overall progress none of the numbers or how you calculate them matter. Basically just keep doing what youíre doing and results should continue. The problem lies in if things donít progress in order for people to help you standards of measurements (and measurements) need to clear and concise.

    I know you will do what it takes to make this a positive successful run and genuinely hope to see some excellent results in your log.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by balance; 10-08-2019 at 04:25 PM.
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  38. #38
    jackfrost88 is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by balance View Post
    Warning selfish d*ckhead comment incoming!

    I’m sorry but unless you live on several acres that require heavy consistent landscaping by you I find it extreme hard to believe that your tdee is 4500 calories at 210 lbs. If you worked construction or manual labor the number is believable but working from home not so much. Furthermore eating 6k calories daily while each meal only has around 6-8 ounces of clean protein (clean here meaning below 10% fat by volume) makes things even more suspect. Something or somethings are off here. Seriosly I don’t mean this as a personal attack but things just doesn’t add up.

    Here’s the thing though if you have made good overall progress none of the numbers or how you calculate them matter. Basically just keep doing what you’re doing and results should continue. The problem lies in if things don’t progress in order for people to help you standards of measurements (and measurements) need to clear and concise.

    I know you will do what it takes to make this a positive successful run and genuinely hope to see some excellent results in your log.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Thanks bro!

    And it sounds weird I know - only thing I can think of that would explain it is that I am carbing up right now and my body is reducing sensitivity to the carbs over time. When I begin to drop them and my body becomes more sensitive then I can and should get more out of less carbs. The protein intake takes me to around 300g a day or almost 1.5g per lb of body weight. But yeah the carbs are insanely high compared to what I'm used to and I didn't believe how much I was eating until I began logging everything.

    Either way progress is being made!
    Started at around 3500cal and progressed up to this amount
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  39. #39
    Wannabhuge14 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    we are all just a bunch of meat head assholes , and so nothing will really ever impress us (other then ourselves).

    so take that into consideration . we are all selfish dick heads with egos (if you've been around the gym long enough you already know this)


    but to be blunt.. there is nothing impressive about having to put down 6000 cals a day to gain some weight.. in fact its just the opposite. I would hate to have to put down 6000 cals a day just to gain 12 pounds in 7 months .
    YES you've made great progress. your on the right track .. but having to eat that much to make gains is not something to brag about nor will guys be impressed by it.

    its like having to take 3000mg of test just to get some gains .. umm well thats not anything to brag about really.


    gaining 20 pounds with say only 2800 cals a day,, staying super lean etc.. now thats impressive.

    I think the whole "youtube" eating videos, calorie challenges, 10k cals a day challenges , etc.. have warped peoples perspectives. having to eat big to get big is not impressive at all (and it comes with more health consequences then steroids themselves) . getting big with a well controlled low calorie but healthy diet is impressive
    I always enjoy your posts and learning from you. Out of curiosity, what would a 5k calorie a day diet look like if it were designed by you?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackfrost88 View Post
    No bragging whatsoever, just being honest with what I am doing. Having a fast metabolism is also an asset.. even I know this and am no where near as knowledged as you GH .

    Didn't start eating this much as previously stated but that is what my body is needing so that's what we are giving it!
    yes I know you were not bragging I was just throwing a bunch a shit out there really, just to exaggerate and drive home my point

    I simply see having to eat more calories in order to gain muscle as a negative thing, not a positive thing.. especially in the long run.

    IF you get to say 250 pounds and 8% body fat in five years having to eat 6000 cals per day , you'll likely be less healthy then you would be if you could get to those same exact stats only eating 4000 cals per day.
    its far healthier to make sure you consume enough to cover your macro and micro nutrients needs, then add in the additional cal surplus (say 500-750) and grow off of that if you can..
    having to grow off of super high cals is just going to lead to inflammation problems and un-needed stress on the body and digestive tract.


    having said all that -- I'm all for pushing high cals if thats what you actually need to grow. and lots of guys do need that. its unfortunate and not ideal, but its simply the reality if you want to make gains .. same with drugs. I wish I was genetically gifted and could grow off of just 500mg of test, but I can't, I need 1500-2000mg of test to grow. thats not ideal. thats not healthy . thats not anything to brag about, its just what has to be done
    balance, Cuz, jackfrost88 and 1 others like this.

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