Deca or EQ - For size

[Dgs59]

What did you guys find the best or better between deca and eq when putting on size and bulking like crazy....

[Cuz]

EQ is good for increasing your appetite i hear never used it, used Deca once at 600mg... didnt really see much but I probably didn’t take it long enough tbh...deca would be best for size by far if you’re willing to use it for a while

[GearHeaded]

Deca hands down . EQ is more of a pure anabolic that works great as a filler drug or background drug (or to cruise on).. Deca works through other mehansims besides just up regulating protein synthesis, like sensitizing you to estrogen which is then going to increase hepatic IGF output, water retention, nitric oxide production , and other things that stimulate mass gains..

having said that , I'm running them both together right now

when in doubt between choosing between two compounds, just run them both

[balance]

I have been considering a run with deca , eq, and low test. Previously I have run NPP around double the amount of test (350mg test, NPP 700mg). I was thinking about lowering the test to trt type levels and using deca along with EQ. One other thing that concerns me though is that there may not be enough androgens with something like this combo.

Any ratios you like between eq and deca, when running with low (200mg weekly) test?


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[Test Monsterone]

I started a low dose cycle/ cruise the other day with Test, Deca , and EQ all at 150mg/week, so 450 total.

EQ, as already mentioned, is definitely not for size. For me, it makes me harder and more vascular, but even at 750 mg/week I didn’t really put on any mass... just made my current weight look a little better.

[i_SLAM_cougars]

when in doubt between choosing between two compounds, just run them both

And then add a healthy dose of Tren and Mast for good measure

[Obs]

My question is why do people try to choose between these two so often?

[Obs]

There is some shit bird online saying eq and deca are a lot alike and when I find him....

[i_SLAM_cougars]

My question is why do people try to choose between these two so often?

Because Seth Feroce said they are in one of his drugs and life videos

[Dgs59]

My question is why do people try to choose between these two so often?

There is some shit bird online saying eq and deca are a lot alike and when I find him....

Let me put it this way, there is a lot of information about both of these and information about EQ available on different sources can be interpreted falsely by inexperienced users such as myself who are unfamiliar with anything else other than test info is not necessary telling that the EQ and DECA are the same but the way an inexperienced user can read and interpret it can make a difference.

[Dgs59]

EQ is good for increasing your appetite i hear never used it, used Deca once at 600mg... didnt really see much but I probably didn’t take it long enough tbh...deca would be best for size by far if you’re willing to use it for a while

How long did you use it for ?

Deca hands down . EQ is more of a pure anabolic that works great as a filler drug or background drug (or to cruise on).. Deca works through other mehansims besides just up regulating protein synthesis, like sensitizing you to estrogen which is then going to increase hepatic IGF output, water retention, nitric oxide production , and other things that stimulate mass gains..

having said that , I'm running them both together right now

when in doubt between choosing between two compounds, just run them both

Brassss lol thanks

I started a low dose cycle/ cruise the other day with Test, Deca, and EQ all at 150mg/week, so 450 total.

EQ, as already mentioned, is definitely not for size. For me, it makes me harder and more vascular, but even at 750 mg/week I didn’t really put on any mass... just made my current weight look a little better.

Awesome

And then add a healthy dose of Tren and Mast for good measure

[Cuz]

How long did you use it for ?



Brassss lol thanks


Awesome

I honestly cant remember, it was along time ago when i wanted to compete... i think the protocol was like 16 weeks bulk then cut 16 which was dumb, had no way built enough mass to compete at anything, ive been lean bulking now for 3 years or trying to “lean” bulk with as little aas as possible. I probably stayed on the deca like 8-10 weeks, i did notice my shoulders and back were shaping up while on t thats about it

[Windex]

Food is more anabolic than both. You are asking to compare apples to oranges. EQ and 19nors are completely different compounds.

[Obs]

Because Seth Feroce said they are in one of his drugs and life videos

Nors?
Duchaine originally compared the two and then later retracted.
Its apples to oranges.
Vaginal to buttsex

[GearHeaded]

best way to think about EQ is that its just testosterone , minus the androgen and estrogen load. thats why its a great 'filler' drug. lets say you wanted to run 1500mg of test, but your both androgen and estrogen sensitive . well you can easily get to that 1500mg range by simply running only 500mg of test and then fill in the rest with 1000mg of Eq. thats gives you a 1500mg of test equivalent but with much less androgen and estrogen load.

Deca on the other hand is an entirely different beast . theres no comparison between deca and eq. deca is a progestin, eq has zero progestin effects.


side note- Eq and Dbol are the exact same drug on paper. Eq is simply the unmethylated injectable version of dbol . of course the way the liver metabolizes them they act very differently in the body,, but on paper they are structurally the same compound

[GearHeaded]

edit - double post

[Ashop]

Either can be used successfully but I would choose DECA for myself because EQ raises my RBC/HEMATOCRIT/HEMOGLOBIN to high over time.

[Dgs59]

Thanks guys for the info, highly appreciated

[Zikka]

How common is Deca dick? I would really like to try running Deca but I have just read horror stories about people having Deca dick up to 6-12 months after they stopped

[i_SLAM_cougars]

How common is Deca dick? I would really like to try running Deca but I have just read horror stories about people having Deca dick up to 6-12 months after they stopped

If you get deca dick for 6 months, you’re an asshole. It’s completley preventable. Just keep some mast prop on hand.

[HoldMyBeer]

If you get deca dick for 6 months, you’re an asshole. It’s completley preventable. Just keep some mast prop on hand.

I have heard that is due to the test deca ratio, is this incorrect?

[i_SLAM_cougars]

I have heard that is due to the test deca ratio, is this incorrect?

It’s due to deca converting to DHN instead of DHT. Throwing more test in your cycle is one way to counter it, but not the only way.

[Dgs59]

It’s due to deca converting to DHN instead of DHT. Throwing more test in your cycle is one way to counter it, but not the only way.

What else can you do counter this, I thought increased test ratio was the only option

[i_SLAM_cougars]

What else can you do counter this, I thought increased test ratio was the only option

Well first, this isn’t something that happens to everyone, just like most people don’t grow tits from taking testosterone .

Introducing Masteron to your cycle will also prevent this.

[GearHeaded]

heres why some guys can end up with "deca dick" .. there are two things needed for an erection, androgens and estrogen. DHT is needed for the physical action itself, and estrogen is needed for the mental (as estrogen controls the male libido) . also estrogen is needed for blood flow (its a hormone responsible for vascular elasticity and nitric oxide production).

those two things are pretty much the very things that Deca does NOT produce. Deca is not androgenic in that instead of converting to DHT it converts to DHN , which then binds to DHT receptors and occupies them yet doesn't illicit any androgenic effect . also natty test levels are going to fall off so you won't be getting more DHT coming in either . which is also why your estrogen levels will also begin falling off.
over time you'll have no androgenic load and no estrogenic load to work with (and thus struggle with sex drive and erection ability).

Then there is a third thing . Deca is a progestin thats going to bind to progestin receptors. this in turn can elevate Prolactin levels, which when way too elevated can also cause erection issues .

and an un-related to deca its fourth thing that often times happen , guys start taking a high dose of an AI from day one of their deca cycle , mistakingly thinking they need it cause they think deca aromatizes a lot (which it doesn't, again your e levels will go down on deca, not up) , and then they crash their estrogen super quick and of course have lethargy, no sex drive, etc ..



so whats the best bet. stack some androgenic and aromatizing based compounds in with your deca. first one is clearly test because it converts to both DHT and Estrogen . also you can stack another androgen like Masteron which will lower SHBG , which then thus allows for more androgenic activity by freeing up bound DHT into the blood stream . Mast will also blunt some of the progestin effects . and also you can add in low dose Dbol to get even more estrogen if need be.

[i_SLAM_cougars]

heres why some guys can end up with "deca dick" .. there are two things needed for an erection, androgens and estrogen. DHT is needed for the physical action itself, and estrogen is needed for the mental (as estrogen controls the male libido) . also estrogen is needed for blood flow (its a hormone responsible for vascular elasticity and nitric oxide production).

those two things are pretty much the very things that Deca does NOT produce. Deca is not androgenic in that instead of converting to DHT it converts to DHN , which then binds to DHT receptors and occupies them yet doesn't illicit any androgenic effect . also natty test levels are going to fall off so you won't be getting more DHT coming in either . which is also why your estrogen levels will also begin falling off.
over time you'll have no androgenic load and no estrogenic load to work with (and thus struggle with sex drive and erection ability).

Then there is a third thing . Deca is a progestin thats going to bind to progestin receptors. this in turn can elevate Prolactin levels, which when way too elevated can also cause erection issues .

and an un-related to deca its fourth thing that often times happen , guys start taking a high dose of an AI from day one of their deca cycle , mistakingly thinking they need it cause they think deca aromatizes a lot (which it doesn't, again your e levels will go down on deca, not up) , and then they crash their estrogen super quick and of course have lethargy, no sex drive, etc ..



so whats the best bet. stack some androgenic and aromatizing based compounds in with your deca. first one is clearly test because it converts to both DHT and Estrogen . also you can stack another androgen like Masteron which will lower SHBG , which then thus allows for more androgenic activity by freeing up bound DHT into the blood stream . Mast will also blunt some of the progestin effects . and also you can add in low dose Dbol to get even more estrogen if need be.

kinda starting to feel like Tren , Mast, and Dbol are more like ancillaries to any good cycle

[Zikka]

heres why some guys can end up with "deca dick" .. there are two things needed for an erection, androgens and estrogen. DHT is needed for the physical action itself, and estrogen is needed for the mental (as estrogen controls the male libido) . also estrogen is needed for blood flow (its a hormone responsible for vascular elasticity and nitric oxide production).

those two things are pretty much the very things that Deca does NOT produce. Deca is not androgenic in that instead of converting to DHT it converts to DHN , which then binds to DHT receptors and occupies them yet doesn't illicit any androgenic effect . also natty test levels are going to fall off so you won't be getting more DHT coming in either . which is also why your estrogen levels will also begin falling off.
over time you'll have no androgenic load and no estrogenic load to work with (and thus struggle with sex drive and erection ability).

Then there is a third thing . Deca is a progestin thats going to bind to progestin receptors. this in turn can elevate Prolactin levels, which when way too elevated can also cause erection issues .

and an un-related to deca its fourth thing that often times happen , guys start taking a high dose of an AI from day one of their deca cycle , mistakingly thinking they need it cause they think deca aromatizes a lot (which it doesn't, again your e levels will go down on deca, not up) , and then they crash their estrogen super quick and of course have lethargy, no sex drive, etc ..



so whats the best bet. stack some androgenic and aromatizing based compounds in with your deca. first one is clearly test because it converts to both DHT and Estrogen . also you can stack another androgen like Masteron which will lower SHBG , which then thus allows for more androgenic activity by freeing up bound DHT into the blood stream . Mast will also blunt some of the progestin effects . and also you can add in low dose Dbol to get even more estrogen if need be.

Thank you very much for the explanation. Feel much more confident running a Deca cycle now!

So could a Deca cycle look something like the following:

Test E 700mg weekly
Deca 500mg weekly
Masteron 300mg weekly

[Kyle1337]

Thank you very much for the explanation. Feel much more confident running a Deca cycle now!

So could a Deca cycle look something like the following:

Test E 700mg weekly
Deca 500mg weekly
Masteron 300mg weekly

Throw some anadrol 50mg in there for the first 6 weeks and that's a damn good cycle.

[djnuffsaid]

Thank you very much for the explanation. Feel much more confident running a Deca cycle now!

So could a Deca cycle look something like the following:

Test E 700mg weekly
Deca 500mg weekly
Masteron 300mg weekly

I am on the best cycle of my life (with help from GH and members here)
Started the first 6 weeks with
Test - 500mg/wk
Tren - 400mg/wk
Masteron - 400mg/wk

Then the next 6 weeks
Test - 400mg/wk
NPP - 350mg/wk
Masteron - 400mg/wk
EQ - 500mg/wk


Now I am into the last 6 weeks which are different - added in some compounds and removed some/lowered dosage.

I will tell you that Mast is a total life saver when running deca or tren - really really helps with the progesterone. Totally changed my outlook on deca and tren - will never run either of them without Mast again.

I would run your cycle -
Test E 400-500mg weekly
Deca 500mg weekly
Masteron 350mg weekly (if prop, if E run 400mg)
EQ - 400mg weekly

[Dgs59]

heres why some guys can end up with "deca dick" ..

Sweetness, thanks man. Makes sense.

[GearHeaded]

kinda starting to feel like Tren, Mast, and Dbol are more like ancillaries to any good cycle

YES .. thats often times how I design cycles . I'd rather use AAS as "ancillaries" to combat negative sides from other AAS and make them work together then throw in other medical drugs that have no anabolic properties (like caber, prami, Letro, arimidex , etc.).

knowing how all these different AAS work in the body and their different attributes can definitely help. rather then just stacking a few different AAS cause you think you want to take those AAS just for fun ,, putting a proper stack together should have a very good "rhyme and reason" and things meant to work together. you'll get more gains and less side effects with proper stacking.
plugging in an AAS to an existing cycle just to add some synergy as an "ancillary" is a very valid thing to do .

some super conservative guys will say "yeah but your throwing everything but the kitchen sink into your cycle" .. cause of combining a lot of different compounds into a cycle (all the while they are running just as much because all the Caber, Prami, arimidex, Clomid, Hcg , Nolva, etc. they are actually running in their cycle duration) .
what they don't realize is the dosages and which compounds are actually the work horse compounds and which ones are just added in for synergy as an "ancillary" to help limit negative sides and increase results.

[Obs]

YES .. thats often times how I design cycles . I'd rather use AAS as "ancillaries" to combat negative sides from other AAS and make them work together then throw in other medical drugs that have no anabolic properties (like caber, prami, Letro, arimidex , etc.).

knowing how all these different AAS work in the body and their different attributes can definitely help. rather then just stacking a few different AAS cause you think you want to take those AAS just for fun ,, putting a proper stack together should have a very good "rhyme and reason" and things meant to work together. you'll get more gains and less side effects with proper stacking.
plugging in an AAS to an existing cycle just to add some synergy as an "ancillary" is a very valid thing to do .

some super conservative guys will say "yeah but your throwing everything but the kitchen sink into your cycle" .. cause of combining a lot of different compounds into a cycle (all the while they are running just as much because all the Caber, Prami, arimidex, Clomid, Hcg , Nolva, etc. they are actually running in their cycle duration) .
what they don't realize is the dosages and which compounds are actually the work horse compounds and which ones are just added in for synergy as an "ancillary" to help limit negative sides and increase results.

I hope you know how appreciated you are GH.
You opened my eyes to a lot of stuff and most people here. Hands down the most in depth expertise I have seen.

I will never agree with all of what anyone says but you are ten lightyears ahead of me.

[Wannabhuge14]

I hope you know how appreciated you are GH.
You opened my eyes to a lot of stuff and most people here. Hands down the most in depth expertise I have seen.

I will never agree with all of what anyone says but you are ten lightyears ahead of me.

Yeah man, dude is awesome.

[djnuffsaid]

I hope you know how appreciated you are GH.
You opened my eyes to a lot of stuff and most people here. Hands down the most in depth expertise I have seen.

I will never agree with all of what anyone says but you are ten lightyears ahead of me.

Yeah GH you have been such a crucial source of information and advice. It's great that instead of just stating the "what", you take the time to explain the "how" and the "why" and make sure we actually understand why you are recommending what you are. You have helped everyone on this board so much so I think I speak for most when I say thank you.

[Kyle1337]

I hope you know how appreciated you are GH.
You opened my eyes to a lot of stuff and most people here. Hands down the most in depth expertise I have seen.

I will never agree with all of what anyone says but you are ten lightyears ahead of me.

It's sad at one time he was banned/left because he was telling people this same info and the mods (or someone) didn't like it. Lol, whoops

[djnuffsaid]

It's sad at one time he was banned/left because he was telling people this same info and the mods (or someone) didn't like it. Lol, whoops

I remember that time - it was when if you didn't run an AI your whole cycle of 500mg/wk of test you were shunned from the board. So glad we have progressed.

[Cakedup]

best way to think about EQ is that its just testosterone , minus the androgen and estrogen load. thats why its a great 'filler' drug. lets say you wanted to run 1500mg of test, but your both androgen and estrogen sensitive . well you can easily get to that 1500mg range by simply running only 500mg of test and then fill in the rest with 1000mg of Eq. thats gives you a 1500mg of test equivalent but with much less androgen and estrogen load.

Deca on the other hand is an entirely different beast . theres no comparison between deca and eq. deca is a progestin, eq has zero progestin effects.


side note- Eq and Dbol are the exact same drug on paper. Eq is simply the unmethylated injectable version of dbol . of course the way the liver metabolizes them they act very differently in the body,, but on paper they are structurally the same compound

Quick question. I know EQ does not aromatises. At least not at a fast rate anyway, and it's not something you have to worry about taking a AI with. However we know dbol aromatises I believe more than Anadrol .. My question is, if I was to look them up I like you said they look the same on paper ( which of course I believe you I know you're right), but if they look the same on paper what tells me or you that dbol will aromatise but not EQ? Or is that something we just know from personal experience?


I know this is off topic, but I wanted to run Tren for years. However the few times I tried witch was with Ten A. So I could get it out of my system fast of I had to. I didn't make it past 10 days because of anxiety, and due to my job I can't have shaky hands. Is there a way to combat this? ( obviously besides drugs like benzodiazepines)

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[djnuffsaid]

Quick question. I know EQ does not aromatises. At least not at a fast rate anyway, and it's not something you have to worry about taking a AI with. However we know dbol aromatises I believe more than Anadrol .. My question is, if I was to look them up I like you said they look the same on paper ( which of course I believe you I know you're right), but if they look the same on paper what tells me or you that dbol will aromatise but not EQ? Or is that something we just know from personal experience?


I know this is off topic, but I wanted to run Tren for years. However the few times I tried witch was with Ten A. So I could get it out of my system fast of I had to. I didn't make it past 10 days because of anxiety, and due to my job I can't have shaky hands. Is there a way to combat this? ( obviously besides drugs like benzodiazepines)

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How much tren were you doing a week? I have never experienced any sides like that from any AAS before. Never had shaky hands, never had anxiety (I mean slightly but nothing to write home about.)

[GearHeaded]

Quick question. I know EQ does not aromatises. At least not at a fast rate anyway, and it's not something you have to worry about taking a AI with. However we know dbol aromatises I believe more than Anadrol.. My question is, if I was to look them up I like you said they look the same on paper ( which of course I believe you I know you're right), but if they look the same on paper what tells me or you that dbol will aromatise but not EQ? Or is that something we just know from personal experience?

Well the difference is that Dbol is Methylatated (a methyl group is added to the 17 position) so it can survive the digestive system (first pass of the liver) , and Eq is NOT methylated and thus has to be injected and not subject to the first pass of the liver.
note - when methylation occurs, a methyl group is added, without changing the actual DNA sequence of the molecule . so EQ and Dbol are the exact same molecule/DNA sequence . so thats what I mean they are the same on paper (just one is methylated for oral consumption and one is injectible only).

but keep this in mind . the liver is "magic" . when something has to go though the first pass of liver (and then another pass on top of it) , some "magical" shit can happen .
heck think about these things . if you ate too much chicken breast in a single meal with no carbs, your liver can simply take all those extra amino acids/proteins and convert them into glucose (carbs). Your liver can can take an inactive thyroid hormone, t4, and convert into active thyroid T3. your liver can take HGH and Insulin and then spit out IGF . your liver can take high blood serum levels of estrogen and then spit out even more IGF.. you liver can create basically almost seemingly out of nothing and make things.

AND your liver can take Dbol. which is just methylated EQ. and create nearly a whole new drug and make extra metabolites out of it that it does not do with EQ .
so this is how Dbol is so estrogenic and EQ is not. because of the way the liver metabolizes dbol. it creates unigue metabolites that are then armotized and converted to estrogen (actual its not even normal estrogen, its a form of estrogen that is 5x more potent and bio available then the estrogen that testosterone converts to)..

this relates to all sorts of other drugs as well . methyl tren (oral tren) is not tren at all after being processed by the liver. methyl test is not really test. same thing can happen with other drugs that are not AAS.


note - and before anyone asks. NO injectible Dbol is not simply EQ . injectible Dbol is still methylated and as such will be broken down the same way as oral Dbol, just happens on the second pass (the blood pass) of the liver rather then the first pass

I know this is off topic, but I wanted to run Tren for years. However the few times I tried witch was with Ten A. So I could get it out of my system fast of I had to. I didn't make it past 10 days because of anxiety, and due to my job I can't have shaky hands. Is there a way to combat this? ( obviously besides drugs like benzodiazepines)

I'm guessing you got anxiety from Tren based on a couple things .. you didn't run a high enough dose of test (or have another highly estrogenic compound in there like Dbol) , OR you were running way too high of dose of an AI while taking it. too high of androgen load with too low of estrogen will cause anxiety for sure . your brain has both androgen and estrogen receptors. Tren is super super androgenic (and not estrogenic) so its going to saturate those androgen receptors in the brain, but if you don't have enough estrogen to also saturate the e rescptors in the brain to counter balance the two hormones , then you can get anxiety and an over stimulation of the nervous system .

next time you run tren do NOT run it with an AI . run around 150mg of Tren, 400mg of test, 20mg Dbol day, 10mg nolva a day . and you likely won't have anxiety issues from it, cause you'll have a better balance of estrogen to androgen load in the brain.

[Cakedup]

How much tren were you doing a week? I have never experienced any sides like that from any AAS before. Never had shaky hands, never had anxiety (I mean slightly but nothing to write home about.)

75mg 3 times a week. So 225 mg a week.

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