Bulking

**Proximal** · 02-08-2020, 01:34 PM

This is likely an elementary question, but appreciate the time & explanations.

With the little cycling that I’ve done my wife always comments that when I’m using what I believe are “wet” compounds, she just thinks I look puffy and not that great to look at. It happened with Dbol & also with Adrol. Hell, even when I jumped just as high as 500 with test. Plus I also have to watch my blood pressure.

I’m not looking to have a swimsuit physique. At my age I don’t even wear tank tops any more, but when the wife gives me the thumbs down I’m tending to agree with her.

Is the bulk & water a necessity to putting on hard muscle later on?

Love my var, love low dose tren & going to get primo. Would I be limiting myself by not “bulking”?

TY all!

**Kyle1337** · 02-08-2020, 01:40 PM

Bulking comes from food. Eat too much, regardless what drugs you take, and you will 'bulk'. When I first started my bulk, I kept it very lean and healthy with EQ. I shortly added other drugs and it was evident the 'wet' look showed. If you can stay on primo, that's a better substitute. Just don't add in all the 'wet' compounds IMO. Low dose tren and primo and some HGH, and I doubt you could even force yourself to hold water LOL

**Proximal** · 02-08-2020, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Kyle1337

Bulking comes from food. Eat too much, regardless what drugs you take, and you will 'bulk'. When I first started my bulk, I kept it very lean and healthy with EQ. I shortly added other drugs and it was evident the 'wet' look showed. If you can stay on primo, that's a better substitute. Just don't add in all the 'wet' compounds IMO. Low dose tren and primo and some HGH, and I doubt you could even force yourself to hold water LOL

I think I’m asking then, what is the value of the bloat & water to the addition of muscle?

I understand the diet aspect with respect to bulking. TY for your reply Kyle.

**Livinlean** · 02-08-2020, 05:33 PM

Controlling sodium intake will help with the bloated look. Personally I only really get it with insulin now. Anadrol makes my skin tight as hell due to the pumps.

Increase in estrogen will also have a part in that bloat situation. I personally don't use AI because I would rather deal with the bloat then leave "gains" on the table. Did you use AI during those bulks?

**Proximal** · 02-08-2020, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Livinlean

Controlling sodium intake will help with the bloated look. Personally I only really get it with insulin now. Anadrol makes my skin tight as hell due to the pumps.

Increase in estrogen will also have a part in that bloat situation. I personally don't use AI because I would rather deal with the bloat then leave "gains" on the table. Did you use AI during those bulks?

Nolvadex as a precaution.

Is the “bulk” a necessity to growth? Is it necessary to put on excessive unaesthetic size to grow quality muscle in the long run?

I can understand added fat for extra calorie intake, but water bloat? Just curious, TY!

**Cuz** · 02-08-2020, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Proximal

Nolvadex as a precaution.

Is the “bulk” a necessity to growth? Is it necessary to put on excessive unaesthetic size to grow quality muscle in the long run?

I can understand added fat for extra calorie intake, but water bloat? Just curious, TY!

I think this is a general rule of thumb in the bodybuilding world but also each individual is unique in how they respond and look on a bulk. Me for example usually the fattest i get is in my avatar recently and id say maybe 15% idk i don’t measure it i still have plenty of veins running through my arms shouldere and legs and thats how I want to keep it

I dont want to go above 15 percent honestly as im just a recreational gym guy , the pros may have to do this due to the insulin and grams of test they run I honestly dont know the answer to the question the deal is when i start losing my vascularity my mental approach is “fuck i look like shit” and quickly do what is necessary to get it back. Sorry for the rambling

I believe the “wet look” would be due to excess estrogen levels personally i have seen this happen where huge guys to kill there E2 and dry them out but its tricky business

**Proximal** · 02-08-2020, 07:37 PM

Thanks Cuz! Just figuring it out for myself but,

I get so many questions from students, I want to give them accurate & intelligent information.

They know bro-code. Of course I tell them to stay away till their 20’s.

But kids ask hard/intelligent questions about AAS. I want to give them facts.

For what it’s worth, the info I’ve passed on to kids from this forum, has kept teens off of AAS.

I can’t say this enough. The people on this forum & the forum itself is special & all about education (and well, a shit-load of goofy fun!). This is s good place and Karma knows it.

**Quester** · 02-08-2020, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by Proximal

I think I’m asking then, what is the value of the bloat & water to the addition of muscle?

I understand the diet aspect with respect to bulking. TY for your reply Kyle.

GH has written a lot about high estrogen on cycle facilitating more growth hormone and other things.
-
I think one benefit of having more water is having more nutrients, including water, in the cells and extracellular spaces available for growth and repair.
-
The wet-look may be a real benefit but it is personal preference. It's not something I'm going for and it isn't vital for growth. Additionally, I think the wet-AAS are also heavier on the side effects.

**charger69** · 02-08-2020, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by Quester

GH has written a lot about high estrogen on cycle facilitating more growth hormone and other things.
-
I think one benefit of having more water is having more nutrients, including water, in the cells and extracellular spaces available for growth and repair.
-
The wet-look may be a real benefit but it is personal preference. It's not something I'm going for and it isn't vital for growth. Additionally, I think the wet-AAS are also heavier on the side effects.

Yes, water retention does screw with you. There is a balance. I went to an extreme and had to cut back..... or maybe I was just a big pussy. LOL

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**Quester** · 02-08-2020, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by charger69

Yes, water retention does screw with you. There is a balance. I went to an extreme and had to cut back..... or maybe I was just a big pussy. LOL
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I and everyone who knows you, I'm sure, am very glad you are okay.

**Charlie67** · 02-08-2020, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by Proximal

I think I’m asking then, what is the value of the bloat & water to the addition of muscle?

I understand the diet aspect with respect to bulking. TY for your reply Kyle.

Bulking is one of those words that seems to very in definition from person to person... In a lot of people I see that say they're bulking are just eating a shit ton of food without any real thought and hammering gear. They say they're bulking, but it seems like they're just getting unnecessarily fat. "Bulking" might just be an unfortunate word choice for "eating above maintenance calories", But as we all know (especially as we age Prox, lol) getting our bodies to respond in ANY positive way sometimes take work. I do tend to believe you need to have excess calories if you want to grow, but it's so very dependent on the person. And age is such a huge modifier... For example, I walk around a little fat already, I have plenty of excess energy already stored in my body. So my current cycle is geared towards using that surplus stored energy as the primary driver for muscle growth. So I'm not bulking per se, because I don't need to take in the surplus calories because I already have them to use.

But to your question, there's probably value in storing high levels of glycogen, normally a byproduct of eating heavy. And for me, when I'm full of water my joints feel so much better, which allows me to work a little harder... But there is that line in water retention that when I cross it, I just get really uncomfortable.... Sleep suffers, etc, etc.

Here's much more helpful info from Gearheaded's post: https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...imes-myth.html

**Proximal** · 02-08-2020, 11:17 PM

Guys, TY for everything thus far.

Would this be accurate any way?

During a “bulk” phase you eat excess calories to ensure growth. You use a compound because it is not related to cutting yet is still very effective (but don’t care about bloat). Thus you go with a compound that works yet is not aesthetic

So, water weight is ok.

**The road** · 02-09-2020, 01:09 AM

Originally Posted by charger69

Yes, water retention does screw with you. There is a balance. I went to an extreme and had to cut back..... or maybe I was just a big pussy. LOL

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Finally... Something I know the answer to!

**Wyatt 88** · 02-09-2020, 05:56 AM

Eat 50 calories above and you will gain. Who wants to look like a fat bag anytime of the year?

**JohnnyBreeze** · 02-09-2020, 06:24 AM

This is an oversimplified way to look at how water weight helps. During contractions when you lift, water is moved from the blood into the muscle cells and interstitial space around them. The more water volume moved into the cells and ISS, the more you can lift. This is also an oversimplification, but protein is synthesized in the water inside muscle cells; the larger the volume, the more protein synthesis. So like Quester mentioned, it also helps with recovery.

Would this be accurate any way? If your definition of "bulking" is putting on as much muscle as possible during a particular cycle or and / or time frame (while not being overly concerned with the fat and water weight that will accompany a large calorie surplus), then yes to below. This has always been the definition I think of when I see "bulking".

During a “bulk” phase you eat excess calories to ensure growth. You use a compound because it is not related to cutting yet is still very effective (but don’t care about bloat). Thus you go with a compound that works yet is not aesthetic

So, water weight is ok. Yes, up until the risks (like high blood pressure) outweigh the benefits.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

However, if your definition of bulking is to put on as much muscle as possible while keeping fat and water weight to your minimal or acceptable levels, then below. I tried to write it as if you were addressing your students.

[B]During a “bulk” phase you eat a controlled excess of calories to ensure maximum muscle growth with minimal fat and water weight gain. You could add non or lower bloating compounds (which are still effective for bulking, like Tren ) to other compounds that cause more water weight gain. This is in order to "even out" yet not necessarily eliminate all water weight gain and its benefits. Go with a compound or combination that gives you the acceptable safe level of bloating to achieve the aesthetics you also find acceptable. Excess water weight is okay, and beneficial, up to the point when the risks (like high blood pressure) outweigh the benefits.

**charger69** · 02-09-2020, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by JohnnyBreeze

This is an oversimplified way to look at how water weight helps. During contractions when you lift, water is moved from the blood into the muscle cells and interstitial space around them. The more water volume moved into the cells and ISS, the more you can lift. This is also an oversimplification, but protein is synthesized in the water inside muscle cells; the larger the volume, the more protein synthesis. So like Quester mentioned, it also helps with recovery.

Would this be accurate any way? If your definition of "bulking" is putting on as much muscle as possible during a particular cycle or and / or time frame (while not being overly concerned with the fat and water weight that will accompany a large calorie surplus), then yes to below. This has always been the definition I think of when I see "bulking".

During a “bulk” phase you eat excess calories to ensure growth. You use a compound because it is not related to cutting yet is still very effective (but don’t care about bloat). Thus you go with a compound that works yet is not aesthetic

So, water weight is ok. Yes, up until the risks (like high blood pressure) outweigh the benefits.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

However, if your definition of bulking is to put on as much muscle as possible while keeping fat and water weight to your minimal or acceptable levels, then below. I tried to write it as if you were addressing your students.

[B]During a “bulk” phase you eat a controlled excess of calories to ensure maximum muscle growth with minimal fat and water weight gain. You could add non or lower bloating compounds (which are still effective for bulking, like Tren) to other compounds that cause more water weight gain. This is in order to "even out" yet not necessarily eliminate all water weight gain and its benefits. Go with a compound or combination that gives you the acceptable safe level of bloating to achieve the aesthetics you also find acceptable. Excess water weight is okay, and beneficial, up to the point when the risks (like high blood pressure) outweigh the benefits.

I was going to make some clarifications but you did an excellent job.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**Proximal** · 02-09-2020, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by JohnnyBreeze

This is an oversimplified way to look at how water weight helps. During contractions when you lift, water is moved from the blood into the muscle cells and interstitial space around them. The more water volume moved into the cells and ISS, the more you can lift. This is also an oversimplification, but protein is synthesized in the water inside muscle cells; the larger the volume, the more protein synthesis. So like Quester mentioned, it also helps with.

Hmmm, been teaching Anatomy & Physiology for 20 years been a member of NSCA for 35 years & this is new info & frankly smacks of bro-science. Please refer me to the journal or textbook that you got this from.

With that said though, I sincerely appreciate the time you put into the explanation.

**Quester** · 02-09-2020, 06:26 PM

A bulk means that nutrients are not gonna be a limiting factor in a cycle. From my point of view, one would want to maximize growth at the expense of aesthetics in order to gain the most from the cycle in order to justify the expense and the damage (however temporary or longer) one does to their body. One can loose weight without AAS after their cycle. This would be a prime consideration, IMO.

**Proximal** · 02-09-2020, 06:53 PM

TY Quester. I think for me bulk has many meanings. Many of my student questions come from Football players that are stepping up to the college levels.

Some of them simply need size for size sake or “bulk”.

Again, I steer them AWAY with solid information, not just rhetoric & b.s. God bless this place & our open / honest members in helping me with that. This stuff is not found in textbooks, nor can you take a weekend seminar like any of the other extracurricular dangers teens face.

Regarding me, my years are limited with cycling and I was just curious if I was doing myself a big injustice by staying dry.

I greatly respect your advice, I know your background. I hope that you are well!