Should labs refund/give you credit?

[Test Monsterone]

I recently ran into an issue where I purchased 4 vials of pretty expensive DHB from a source I use consistently, and whose DHB I have used recently before. What prompted me to buy those 4 vials was the quality of the first two vials I used, and how they made me feel. Little pip, good results.


The lab has since changed carrier oils to guaiacol, and the pip is unbearable, even at a low .5 mL dose, mixed with other gear. I couldn’t move my arm for a week and had a lump in my shoulder for longer.

Isn’t it kind of a bait and switch the fact that the first batch was one kind of gear, and the second batch a totally different experience? I contacted the lab and there is no explanation for why the carrier oil was changed, only “that sucks brother” and “DHB is a bitch.” Their suggestion was to dilute the oil with some other oil, which I kind of already did by using it with test c.


I don’t see myself doing anything but throwing these vials in the trash and losing the ~$280 I paid for them. I would think a lab that wants to keep clients would offer something else in return, even if only covering half the cost. What’s it cost them to make a vial, a few bucks?

[The Concrete Runner]

I recently ran into an issue where I purchased 4 vials of pretty expensive DHB from a source I use consistently, and whose DHB I have used recently before. What prompted me to buy those 4 vials was the quality of the first two vials I used, and how they made me feel. Little pip, good results.


The lab has since changed carrier oils to guaiacol, and the pip is unbearable, even at a low .5 mL dose, mixed with other gear. I couldn’t move my arm for a week and had a lump in my shoulder for longer.

Isn’t it kind of a bait and switch the fact that the first batch was one kind of gear, and the second batch a totally different experience? I contacted the lab and there is no explanation for why the carrier oil was changed, only “that sucks brother” and “DHB is a bitch.” Their suggestion was to dilute the oil with some other oil, which I kind of already did by using it with test c.


I don’t see myself doing anything but throwing these vials in the trash and losing the ~$280 I paid for them. I would think a lab that wants to keep clients would offer something else in return, even if only covering half the cost. What’s it cost them to make a vial, a few bucks?

They can't help that you respond to guac like that, some people have no problems with it. They don't have to offer you anything, I mean, you could be lying just to get cheaper gear (they may see it that way). Diluting it should help....

[The Concrete Runner]

FYI, I used DHB years ago and got pip so bad, I sold it. Never again!

Maybe dilute it further before trashing it all.

[Windex]

Cut the batch with 1% Lidocaine instead of diluting it with oil. The lab isn't responsible for how you respond to gear.

It's no different than going to a place, ordering the hottest chicken wings and be fine. Then you go to the same place a month later and they changed their spicy recipe. Now it's way too hot for you to handle. Is the restaurant going to give you a free meal? Ordering the food is acknowledgment + acceptance of the risk.

Finally, Not to be pretentious but in my opinion $280 is a drop in the bucket for gear. It's a hobby.

[Test Monsterone]

Cut the batch with 1% Lidocaine instead of diluting it with oil. The lab isn't responsible for how you respond to gear.

It's no different than going to a place, ordering the hottest chicken wings and be fine. Then you go to the same place a month later and they changed their spicy recipe. Now it's way too hot for you to handle. Is the restaurant going to give you a free meal? Ordering the food is acknowledgment + acceptance of the risk.

Finally, Not to be pretentious but in my opinion $280 is a drop in the bucket for gear. It's a hobby.

Yeah, in the long run $280 is nothing, but still.

How much much lidocaine do I add? Do I just simply add the lidocaine solution to the bottle of test (room permitting)? The pip started 2-3 days after the injection and got worse by the 5th day. Will the lidocaine work that far along?

[The Concrete Runner]

Yeah, in the long run $280 is nothing, but still.

How much much lidocaine do I add? Do I just simply add the lidocaine solution to the bottle of test (room permitting)? The pip started 2-3 days after the injection and got worse by the 5th day. Will the lidocaine work that far along?

I would think lidocaine would only numb the site for a short period of time and not help at all with pip.

What about maybe trying to dilute it further and inject less per site? Maybe less ML in each muscle but spread out over more sites will help?

[JohnnyBreeze]

]How much much lidocaine do I add? Do I just simply add the lidocaine solution to the bottle of test (room permitting)?

Multiply the ml of DHB you have by 0.01. For example 10ml DHB x 0.01 = 0.1ml of Lidocaine. Room shouldn't be an issue with that volume.

[The road]

I recently ran into an issue where I purchased 4 vials of pretty expensive DHB from a source I use consistently, and whose DHB I have used recently before. What prompted me to buy those 4 vials was the quality of the first two vials I used, and how they made me feel. Little pip, good results.


The lab has since changed carrier oils to guaiacol, and the pip is unbearable, even at a low .5 mL dose, mixed with other gear. I couldn’t move my arm for a week and had a lump in my shoulder for longer.

Isn’t it kind of a bait and switch the fact that the first batch was one kind of gear, and the second batch a totally different experience? I contacted the lab and there is no explanation for why the carrier oil was changed, only “that sucks brother” and “DHB is a bitch.” Their suggestion was to dilute the oil with some other oil, which I kind of already did by using it with test c.


I don’t see myself doing anything but throwing these vials in the trash and losing the ~$280 I paid for them. I would think a lab that wants to keep clients would offer something else in return, even if only covering half the cost. What’s it cost them to make a vial, a few bucks?

No one can be responsible for your sensitivity to ingredients in a compound.
PERIOD!

[KINGKONG]

I don't think the lab is gonna ever refund that bro..I use injectable b-12 and a little grape seed oil to smooth out rough oils..only do 1/2 cc at a time with .5 b-12 and another cc grape seed oil..ime is calms the pip down like its on some Xanax
But everyone is different, gear that gives you pip might not me and vice versa

[The road]

Likewise, I ran Dhb with guiacol and without and had no issue.
Without it, it crashed briefly and I reheated it. Its one of the few crashed compounds I reheated and shot with no pip.

Pip is part of the game and tgats why we abbreviated it 20 years ago.

I advise losing the vagina or buying only pharma grade which... You will play hell finding pharma dhb.
So you can nut up or not touch it.

Thats the steroid game.
You think dhb is bad try boldenone acetate or some water based test suspension from a big ass lab like pharmacom.

I have pictures of my big beautiful veiny biceps red and swollen disfigurably.

Pip is not a week long thing.
It lasts two months sometimes if you inject enough of the wrong compound in one spot.

Hell, I had to shoot a 1ml blend of tren test and mast in 8-12 locations every day to control the pip.

But you wont be going to the pharmacy and buying that shit. No tren. No mast propionate ...

So we live and learn and we all react differently, or we quit.

PIP, is a newbie term. One of the most common threads next to "I HIT A VEIN OMG!"

I remember my first beer...

[Super User 4]

I would say just change of source if they gonna treat you like that bro cause it's a little unprofessional their way of responding

[The road]

I would say just change of source if they gonna treat you like that bro cause it's a little unprofessional their way of responding

Its likely the same lab you are using lmao

[The road]

Just a heads up...
I was notified of this one issue with this poster.

I have serious advisement for all to understand:

#1They DO NOT WANT NEWBIES for this reason.

#2 They will vet their customers that much harder.

The guiacol was added to reduce the crashing of the previous mixes. Guiacol is added to compounds that are prone to crashing, SUCH AS DHB!

some of you fuckers need to take up knitting and stay the fuck away from this shit.

[The road]

You know what...
That lab does not need your business.

Have you ever fucking noticed the vets around here arent making posts about PIP?

You understand many vets here use that same lab?

Hmmmmmm.....
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm......
Hhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........

2+2=your a newb that doesn't understand what to expect from any compound or ugl.

Suck it.

[KINGKONG]

Likewise, I ran Dhb with guiacol and without and had no issue.
Without it, it crashed briefly and I reheated it. Its one of the few crashed compounds I reheated and shot with no pip.

Pip is part of the game and tgats why we abbreviated it 20 years ago.

I advise losing the vagina or buying only pharma grade which... You will play hell finding pharma dhb.
So you can nut up or not touch it.

Thats the steroid game.
You think dhb is bad try boldenone acetate or some water based test suspension from a big ass lab like pharmacom.

I have pictures of my big beautiful veiny biceps red and swollen disfigurably.

Pip is not a week long thing.
It lasts two months sometimes if you inject enough of the wrong compound in one spot.

Hell, I had to shoot a 1ml blend of tren test and mast in 8-12 locations every day to control the pip.

But you wont be going to the pharmacy and buying that shit. No tren. No mast propionate ...

So we live and learn and we all react differently, or we quit.

PIP, is a newbie term. One of the most common threads next to "I HIT A VEIN OMG!"

I remember my first beer...

Oh I remember my first pip, couldn't sit on my leather car seats without grimacing in pain..Road is right man, PIP is part of the game if iam thinking of your UGL ,he's has a legit company and is a good person..he's constantly improving his gear..Pip in a Virgin muscle is very painful, youll get used to it..20 years and I don't know if I got muscle left, or is it all scar tissue? Lol
Try larger muscle sites at smaller increments cut up with more oil..If you still can't stand it, dump it to someone who doesn't care..

[The road]

Oh I remember my first pip, couldn't sit on my leather car seats without grimacing in pain..Road is right man, PIP is part of the game if iam thinking of your UGL ,he's has a legit company and person..he's constantly improving his gear..Pip in a Virgin muscle is very painful, youll get used to it..20 years and I don't know if I got muscle left, or is it all scar tissue? Lol

Its 10% scar tissue and 90% sex.

[KINGKONG]

Its 10% scar tissue and 90% sex.

Lolol damn man, not in front of the "Norms" lol
Pip is a bitch, do what you can to cut it and put it muscle groups you don't use as much if you wanna make it bearable

[Super User 4]

Its likely the same lab you are using lmao

lol I don't think so bro

[jstone]

Guiacol is not the carrier oil, its just a super solvent. Its added to compounds that are hard to hold. I doubt its the guiacol its one solvent i have never heard of causing any problems. Its more than likely the dhb, just because one batch was fine doesnt mean the other will be. I have brewed gear from the same raws, and the first batch was pain free while the second one was thrown out due to being painful.

Some compounds can be painful, and its part of the game. What i would do is order some sterile .2 micron filters, carrier oil of choice, sterile sealed vials, and some ethyl oleate. You should ask the source how much BA he uses, if he uses 2% or more no need to add anymore. You also shouldnt need to add any BB, your cutting the concentration, and adding another solvent. The only reason you might nead to add BA would be if by cutting it you reduce the concentration of BA to less than .9%. So if he uses 2% BA when you double the volume you would still have 1% BA which is plenty.

If you have 50 ml of dhb i would make it into 100ml, cut the concentration in half. I would use 10% EO, because its known to help reduce pip. So take 50ml of the dhb 40ml carrier oil, and 10ml of eo. Mix this in a borosilicate glass container over a low heat, and swirl it around alowing it to all mix together. Dont let the glass container get to hot to hold.

After its mixed thoroughly and at roughly 110 degrees for a few minutes remove it from the heat. Now wipe your sterile vile with an alcohol wipe to sterilize it once dry put a small vent needle in it. Now draw the oil in a big syringe, then attach the filter with a needle. Then filter into the sterile vial.

Once your done your gear will more than likely be painless or at least much better you just have to double the volume you inject.

[SampsonandDelilah]

Sucks that happened, especially knowing you’ve had great success with that compound in the past. Hopefully the work arounds these gents have offered provide a viable way for you to keep that DHB rolling. Sorry for the switch in the batch. I think there’s been some valid points made, some might be a little harsh
But at the end of the day, the gear arrived, it isn’t contaminated and the source at least communicated back. It’s why I’ve been hesitant to try DHB in the first place because all of the rumblings about pip. Ya, it’s a mans game but at the same time being hobbled and unable to run your gear because of it sucks. I don’t think it’s a bait and switch, I just think it’s the lab doing their best to keep the molecule from crashing and in the right mgs to ML range. Hoping the diluting tricks work and wishing you the best on hopefully finishing this thing out.
No reason to flame TMO, he’s never bitched, been a solid contributor and he deserves some respect and encouragement and I’m sure it’s a learning lesson for him too. The guy had been a big advocate of DHB (in fact his posts are what sparked my curiosity with the compound) so I’m sure he’s just going through the disappointment of the change in recipe.

Stepping off my soap box....carry on men

[KINGKONG]

Sucks that happened, especially knowing you’ve had great success with that compound in the past. Hopefully the work arounds these gents have offered provide a viable way for you to keep that DHB rolling. Sorry for the switch in the batch. I think there’s been some valid points made, some might be a little harsh
But at the end of the day, the gear arrived, it isn’t contaminated and the source at least communicated back. It’s why I’ve been hesitant to try DHB in the first place because all of the rumblings about pip. Ya, it’s a mans game but at the same time being hobbled and unable to run your gear because of it sucks. I don’t think it’s a bait and switch, I just think it’s the lab doing their best to keep the molecule from crashing and in the right mgs to ML range. Hoping the diluting tricks work and wishing you the best on hopefully finishing this thing out.
No reason to flame TMO, he’s never bitched, been a solid contributor and he deserves some respect and encouragement and I’m sure it’s a learning lesson for him too. The guy had been a big advocate of DHB (in fact his posts are what sparked my curiosity with the compound) so I’m sure he’s just going through the disappointment of the change in recipe.

Stepping off my soap box....carry on men

My bad if I came off like a dick TMO, had a few drinks last night and that's why generally don't , can be a asshole at times..Also the source your using has been very honest and fair with me..pip is pip, it's part of the game with UGL's, it's hard to get outta the car, it's hard to sleep comfortably sometimes, hard to train affected area, it sucks..That being said, a source can't refund or take back products..For one its risky, and it's opening yourself up to every person who decides he doesn't like the gear..
I avoid high dose/ml compounds and certain kinds of non and short esters for that very reason..Sampson, nothing wrong for sticking up for a friend or someone you respect..Hope you can sooth that shit out bro!
Take care

[The road]

I am not at all sorry I came off like a dick and these ignorant newbie post about PIP calling guiacol a carrier oil, bitching at a lab, are a disgrace.

This is hands down one of the dumbest I have seen and Idgaf who wrote it I will call them out. Excuse me if Im not friendly about it. Its annoying.
Then the idiot trys to play it off like the lab was rude.....
They were polite and professional to a stupid ass kid mentality pitching a fit.

Do you think fucking ugls notify people when they change anything?
Fuck no.

My advice is to take your ass to a different lab.
Gtfo
Go find someone better
Dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
You tried to make this lab sound like a 9 oclock news story so ypu dont need to do business with them any more.

[SampsonandDelilah]

I am not at all sorry I came off like a dick and these ignorant newbie post about PIP calling guiacol a carrier oil, bitching at a lab, are a disgrace.

This is hands down one of the dumbest I have seen and Idgaf who wrote it I will call them out. Excuse me if Im not friendly about it. Its annoying.
Then the idiot trys to play it off like the lab was rude.....
They were polite and professional to a stupid ass kid mentality pitching a fit.

Do you think fucking ugls notify people when they change anything?
Fuck no.

My advice is to take your ass to a different lab.
Gtfo
Go find someone better
Dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
You tried to make this lab sound like a 9 oclock news story so ypu dont need to do business with them any more.

No disrespect, but I have a different take. Didn’t seem that alarmist to me and it was posed in a question and not a statement. The guy was asking for insights, maybe I need to go back a reread but he didn’t call out the lab in a bad way. Look, we’ve all had awesome interactions with these guys and in no way would I never not defend this lab. I just didn’t see it as offensive as you did. We’re a bunch of hormonal alpha males, let’s show each other some grace.

This particular source has been nothing but amazing to me, let’s get that’s straight and no, they are not inclined to tell us when they make a recipe change. I believe they’re doing their best. That being said, TMO was just looking for some clarification

[Test Monsterone]

I am not at all sorry I came off like a dick and these ignorant newbie post about PIP calling guiacol a carrier oil, bitching at a lab, are a disgrace.

This is hands down one of the dumbest I have seen and Idgaf who wrote it I will call them out. Excuse me if Im not friendly about it. Its annoying.
Then the idiot trys to play it off like the lab was rude.....
They were polite and professional to a stupid ass kid mentality pitching a fit.

Do you think fucking ugls notify people when they change anything?
Fuck no.

My advice is to take your ass to a different lab.
Gtfo
Go find someone better
Dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
You tried to make this lab sound like a 9 oclock news story so ypu dont need to do business with them any more.

Sounds like you are personally involved with the lab and got your feelings hurt. Sorry I posted a reasonable question on an open forum for adults to discuss. You say that I am trying to disparage the lab, when I have actually done business with said lab and had nothing but good experiences. I didn't say they were rude to me. I didn't say I'm never doing business with them again. I didn't name anyone, or any lab. I have only said good things about this lab in private (because I wouldn't call anyone out), and said good things about their gear in the past. Maybe I am a newb and I don't know wtf I'm talking about, but I'm here to learn and to share opinions, like anyone else.

I have run Sustanon , all the Tests, EQ, Deca , and DHB... the first batch of DHB I handled fine, the second not so much. TBH, if you are involved with this lab, you shouldn't have said anything and everything would have been fine - I would have continued ordering from this lab and just avoided DHB in the future. I have communicated this with the lab. I already was taking advice on how to minimize the pip in the future and trying to learn from others. You came in here all foaming at the mouth acting like Vladimir Putin when someone calls him short. Sorry dude, it's an open forum. If you represent this lab and are speaking on it's behalf, then I think you did more damage to its reputation than me asking a question, anonymously. If you only sell to vets, then those vets obviously wouldn't be swayed either way. If I was going to order from a lab and heard them bashing a client like that, I'd be concerned. So good luck to you, whoever you are, I hope you've learned something from this interaction as much as I have from other helpful members.

[The road]

No disrespect, but I have a different take. Didn’t seem that alarmist to me and it was posed in a question and not a statement. The guy was asking for insights, maybe I need to go back a reread but he didn’t call out the lab in a bad way. Look, we’ve all had awesome interactions with these guys and in no way would I never not defend this lab. I just didn’t see it as offensive as you did. We’re a bunch of hormonal alpha males, let’s show each other some grace.

This particular source has been nothing but amazing to me, let’s get that’s straight and no, they are not inclined to tell us when they make a recipe change. I believe they’re doing their best. That being said, TMO was just looking for some clarification

I dont mean any of this at you.
Its the newbs they dont want for this reason though.
Some of the most painful gear I ever shot was the best. I had to poke myself in a dozen spots not injecting any more than .2 ml in one spot because it would lock up that muscle group if I did.

People have a sense of entitlement that goes beyond anything I can comprehend. I have never hinted at a ugl for refund or expected one for any reason.

I ordered bunk test cyp from AEL once. I didn't message them and say shit.
It was a few months and the bloods started coming in low for others I had warned and they were taken down. They had blown up huge and now they dont exist. (Likely changed their name)

This post is trying to justify a refund for a reason that anyone can use to get a refund.

"Oh it only cos you a few dollars to make it."

I did a job yeserday that was incredibly dangerous. I charged 200 an hour.
My expense in equipment was maybe 20 bucks including redbull,ephed, and cigarettes.

When I got done the guy said, "You've got a lot more balls than I do!"

Why does gear cost what it costs? Liability, hazard, nuts and guts.

If someone doesnt like a mix and is pissed that a lab can't suit their delicate sensibilities... Wellthey can buy their own raws, make their own mix, and put their own ass on the line.

When someone says I am expensive, I get my equipment and set it on the ground. I tell them they can use my equipment and do it themselves if I can sit down and watch them.

The lab and the patron do not have that luxury in this case bit this is exactly how I see this.

[The road]

Sounds like you are personally involved with the lab and got your feelings hurt. Sorry I posted a reasonable question on an open forum for adults to discuss. You say that I am trying to disparage the lab, when I have actually done business with said lab and had nothing but good experiences. I didn't say they were rude to me. I didn't say I'm never doing business with them again. I didn't name anyone, or any lab. I have only said good things about this lab in private (because I wouldn't call anyone out), and said good things about their gear in the past. Maybe I am a newb and I don't know wtf I'm talking about, but I'm here to learn and to share opinions, like anyone else.

I have run Sustanon, all the Tests, EQ, Deca, and DHB... the first batch of DHB I handled fine, the second not so much. TBH, if you are involved with this lab, you shouldn't have said anything and everything would have been fine - I would have continued ordering from this lab and just avoided DHB in the future. I have communicated this with the lab. I already was taking advice on how to minimize the pip in the future and trying to learn from others. You came in here all foaming at the mouth acting like Vladimir Putin when someone calls him short. Sorry dude, it's an open forum. If you represent this lab and are speaking on it's behalf, then I think you did more damage to its reputation than me asking a question, anonymously. If you only sell to vets, then those vets obviously wouldn't be swayed either way. If I was going to order from a lab and heard them bashing a client like that, I'd be concerned. So good luck to you, whoever you are, I hope you've learned something from this interaction as much as I have from other helpful members.

Val knew you were hinting at a refund.
Its annoying as fuck.

"Isn’t it kind of a bait and switch the fact that the first batch was one kind of gear, and the second batch a totally different experience? I contacted the lab and there is no explanation for why the carrier oil was changed, only “that sucks brother” and “DHB is a bitch.”"
Yeah you tried to make them sound like dickbags and got it handed right back.

I am making an example of you so val doesn't have to deal with this kind of shit.
If you can't handle pip stay away. Do not use him.
Do not use compounds from any ugl. Pharma gives the same pip to some people though. So it looks like yer shit outta luck.

I knew about this because i got a message from a guy that never complains about his customers. He was mad. I asked him what was wrong. He said, "A newb is bitching about pip."

No hes not perfect. He didnt handle it at all like I would.

I would have said I can't refund you but will mail you a free vial of midol and some tampax.

[The road]

"Personally attached" yeah, he has integrity.

I see myself with val.
Puts his ass on the line only to have people complain about shit beyond his control.

Just like someone complaining about my prices for my career. I dont put my ass on the line performing the most dangerous aspect of the most dangerous industry in the US and spend thousands on overhead to make a poverty level wage. I sure live like I am impoverished though. I aint making millions. Rather than have someone complain about me,I would rather not have their business no matter how big the contract is, because at the end of the day, all I have is a reputation and my name.
I will bust my ass like no one you ever saw to please all my patrons. I will put myself in harms way because thats my job and I struggle with bills just like anyone.

I can't say what I want to say to my patrons if they complain. I gotta smile and grit my teeth or I get a bad review in a world where I am judged by one bad review more than 1000 good ones.

[Test Monsterone]

"Personally attached" yeah, he has integrity.

I see myself with val.
Puts his ass on the line only to have people complain about shit beyond his control.

Just like someone complaining about my prices for my career. I dont put my ass on the line performing the most dangerous aspect of the most dangerous industry in the US and spend thousands on overhead to make a poverty level wage. I sure live like I am impoverished though. I aint making millions. Rather than have someone complain about me,I would rather not have their business no matter how big the contract is, because at the end of the day, all I have is a reputation and my name.
I will bust my ass like no one you ever saw to please all my patrons. I will put myself in harms way because thats my job and I struggle with bills just like anyone.

I can't say what I want to say to my patrons if they complain. I gotta smile and grit my teeth or I get a bad review in a world where I am judged by one bad review more than 1000 good ones.

I get what you’re saying, but I never named anyone and, like I said, in private conversations I have said only good things. Personally, if I was running a lab and had a client who seemed consistent and paid on time, I’d say something like “hey, I can see you’re not doing so well with this new batch. Next time You order I’ll help you out and take off 10%.” Maybe you don’t agree, and that’s fine, that’s just how I would handle it.

Look I’ve been involved in a medical spa business where sometimes clients weren’t happy with the results. I’ve had them threaten to sue, to leave bad reviews, etc. I know that’s a bad situation and I don’t do it to others, especially not someone I’m getting my gear off of. I’d be a moron to try to make someone that helps me out look bad.

We did give clients discounts and sometimes even free treatments, especially to those who were return customers. If someone came in for a laser hair treatment and got great results the first two times, then they came back and were burned the third time, and I told them “sorry we used different lenses on the laser, it doesn’t happen to everyone,” would that work? No, people expect consistent results using the same methods.

Anyway, like I said, I didn’t come here to put anyone on blast if that’s what it looks like. This is my little steroid chat room away from my real life where I thought I could discuss and share whatever current things are going on with me related to steroids and bodybuilding. No names no drama. There are already 5 million questions on the same old PCT, cycle help, dosages, sarms , etc. I like to explore different topics, because just taking about gear is boring.

[The road]

I get what you’re saying, but I never named anyone and, like I said, in private conversations I have said only good things. Personally, if I was running a lab and had a client who seemed consistent and paid on time, I’d say something like “hey, I can see you’re not doing so well with this new batch. Next time You order I’ll help you out and take off 10%.” Maybe you don’t agree, and that’s fine, that’s just how I would handle it.

Look I’ve been involved in a medical spa business where sometimes clients weren’t happy with the results. I’ve had them threaten to sue, to leave bad reviews, etc. I know that’s a bad situation and I don’t do it to others, especially not someone I’m getting my gear off of. I’d be a moron to try to make someone that helps me out look bad.

We did give clients discounts and sometimes even free treatments, especially to those who were return customers. If someone came in for a laser hair treatment and got great results the first two times, then they came back and were burned the third time, and I told them “sorry we used different lenses on the laser, it doesn’t happen to everyone,” would that work? No, people expect consistent results using the same methods.

Anyway, like I said, I didn’t come here to put anyone on blast if that’s what it looks like. This is my little steroid chat room away from my real life where I thought I could discuss and share whatever current things are going on with me related to steroids and bodybuilding. No names no drama. There are already 5 million questions on the same old PCT, cycle help, dosages, sarms, etc. I like to explore different topics, because just taking about gear is boring.

Ok.
I do think you should start your own lab.

Personally I have never had a dissatisfied customer. I could have had many. Doesn't mean I like to cater to someone who dreamed up the idea that I should perform tasks not in my contract.

If you were given a refund for pip to keep you happy and he and he advertised in the open to anyone with a dollar, he would have to refund half his orders for some ignorant reason like gear shipped in 0° weather that crashed or a newbie who got pip.

Think about the guys that have been here 10 plus years doing this. Do you see any of them post threads about pip? Do you think they dont get pip?
They do.
They understand its part of the game. Not a thing can be done to stop it.

This is a reverse order ugl. They vet their customers to try and weed out whiners to protect their reputation.

They aint making big bucks. If val wanted money over reputation they would post an ad on a retarded ass source board and rake it in.
Then they would be another blow up here today gone tomorrow lab serving any swinging dick with a dollar and have "mixed reviews".

If complaints got too high they could just close up shop and post a new ad with a new ugl name and run another ad on the same shitty source board.
Rinse lather and repeat.

Btw... Shop around. Most domestic ugls ^^^^ do exactly that.

Just ask victory/thor/hammer/ and I forgot the latest name they use.

[Test Monsterone]

I should have gotten more of the old stuff when it was still around, but I waited too long. I was not expecting to like it that much. I don't remember it crashing either.

Anyway, I see where you're coming from about the reputation and keeping it a small circle. Communication has always been on point and the packaging, labeling, and quality of the gear itself has been spot on ime. I like the test cause I can pin it Sub-q and it doesn't burn and welt up like some of the other brands I've had. That's my review. No hard feelings.

[SampsonandDelilah]

Now everyone kiss and make up...

(and let’s all be protective of V as well and keep it entrusted in good hands)

[The road]

Now everyone kiss and make up...

(and let’s all be protective of V as well and keep it entrusted in good hands)

Hes not even my type. Too tall.

[Test Monsterone]

Hes not even my type. Too tall.

Damn it I'm getting rejected left and right. The girl from last weekend won't return my texts, now you...

[Super User 4]

Now everyone kiss and make up...

(and let’s all be protective of V as well and keep it entrusted in good hands)

LOL they will

[The road]

Damn it I'm getting rejected left and right. The girl from last weekend won't return my texts, now you...

Im not looking for anything serious.
I just want to have fun.

[KINGKONG]

Damn it I'm getting rejected left and right. The girl from last weekend won't return my texts, now you...

Don't worry I got very few standards lol

[Test Monsterone]

Don't worry I got very few standards lol

I’ll warm up the oil and insert slowly. ;-)

[KINGKONG]

I’ll warm up the oil and insert slowly. ;-)

Lol now your talking, I only take 1 inch pins


“Men do never if seldom, rise from small beginnings to great heights...Except through fraud or force"
Niccolò Machiavelli

[KINGKONG]

Seriously though cut that stuff up and try .25 or .5 at a time..see if its bearable and glad you guys hugged it out, we are all brothers in this game..


“Men do never if seldom, rise from small beginnings to great heights...Except through fraud or force"
Niccolò Machiavelli