Cycling Deca and questions about recovering post cycle

**kiki123** · 12-28-2020, 06:40 PM

I'll try to keep this reasonably simple.

Those who are cycling Deca . Assuming your pct is on point, how quickly do you bounce back ?

I'm considering a 20wk test e and deca cycle. I'll stop the deca at week 16 and continue running test till week 20.

As Deca remains in your system for a long time, just want to hear first hand experience from people who have done it and not those who are running it alongside trt.

This will be my 2nd cycle. 1st was test e by itself 400mg/wk for 14wks. A more conservative 2nd cycle Im thinking of running is 600mgs test e for 16wks with Adrol thrown in starter and finisher.

Curious to hear peoples experience with deca cycling, if it helps, I never had any issues recovering through pct on test alone, felt like my usual self throughout pct, libido still high throughout.

Thanks.

**Test Monsterone** · 12-28-2020, 09:29 PM

If you're gonna run cycles for that long, why not just hop on TRT? I can almost guarantee your T levels are gonna be permanently reduced after a 20 week cycle. Deca is probably the worst for recovery, but maybe someone on here that still comes off completely can help you.

**kiki123** · 12-28-2020, 10:47 PM

Not looking to go the trt route just yet. In time maybe, but I'm happy running a couple cycles a year if my pct works out as well as last time. Hence my reluctance with deca , I have it already so may have it collecting dust on my shelf and go for compounds that won't be as hard to recover from. I still haven't tried a higher dose test run so that and an oral might be a better starting point? Thoughts ? It will be 16wk cycle if I only run test/adrol, not 20wk

**Gallowmere** · 12-29-2020, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by kiki123

Not looking to go the trt route just yet. In time maybe, but I'm happy running a couple cycles a year if my pct works out as well as last time. Hence my reluctance with deca, I have it already so may have it collecting dust on my shelf and go for compounds that won't be as hard to recover from. I still haven't tried a higher dose test run so that and an oral might be a better starting point? Thoughts ? It will be 16wk cycle if I only run test/adrol, not 20wk

Fair enough. Just remember, PCT is always a crapshoot and the odds become more and more stacked against you the longer you keep your system suppressed. 20 weeks is definitely making that less and less viable each time.
What could work better is frontloading your first week (double all long ester doses), then cut the total cycle length by 4-6 weeks.
With a proper frontload, you’re actually above your cycle’s static levels by the end of week 1, instead of them taking 3-5 weeks to reach stability. After that first week, your levels will creep back down to equilibrium for your planned cycle doses after about another week, and then you’re off to the races for the rest of the time.

**Cuz** · 12-29-2020, 02:34 PM

In my early twenties i ran two cycles relatively short and pct’d. After a few years my test was around 400s . I started running longer harder cycles, 16 weeks...with 19 nors. After i came off i never recovered, at 31 my total was 213 and free was 4.2...
so now im on trt. If i didnt want trt id advise running short burst cycles and stay away from 19 nors.

**Krb367** · 12-29-2020, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by Cuz

In my early twenties i ran two cycles relatively short and pct’d. After a few years my test was around 400s . I started running longer harder cycles, 16 weeks...with 19 nors. After i came off i never recovered, at 31 my total was 213 and free was 4.2...
so now im on trt. If i didnt want trt id advise running short burst cycles and stay away from 19 nors.

NPP for op?

I wish I would have never bothered with coming off and PCT. I should’ve just “self prescribed” myself TRT. The gains don’t disappear nearly as much as compared to coming off, running a PCT and then taking time off prior to the next cycle.

**kiki123** · 12-29-2020, 09:25 PM

At 38yo my free test is currently 484pmol/L. Range 198-619. Testosterone 23.9nmol/L. Range 8.7-29.0. So definitely on the higher range of normal. No idea what that is in ng/dL.

Think ill take on board the 19nor recovery risk and go for another run of test. Won't be self prescribing TRT as New Zealand is difficult to source gear but we do have a few trt clinics.

**Gallowmere** · 12-30-2020, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by kiki123

At 38yo my free test is currently 484pmol/L. Range 198-619. Testosterone 23.9nmol/L. Range 8.7-29.0. So definitely on the higher range of normal. No idea what that is in ng/dL.

Think ill take on board the 19nor recovery risk and go for another run of test. Won't be self prescribing TRT as New Zealand is difficult to source gear but we do have a few trt clinics.

So long as you have clinics, you can make it work if you really want to. Just don’t bother PCTing, get bloods done about two and a half weeks after your last test pin (don’t try this if using deca , as it does crazy shit to serum test bloods), and get a draw done while recovering from shut down. That timeframe should give enough for LH/FSH to start creeping back up while test is still low as hell, making you look primary hypo to avoid the stupid ass desire to give you Clomid.
Most clinics are just looking for an excuse to prescribe, and a couple of rounds of extremely low test is usually enough. They just need a paper trail to cover their asses in case something were to go wrong, especially right now, with all of these idiots still thinking test in any dose causes heart attacks and shit.

**ksingh93** · 12-30-2020, 02:20 AM

Everyone recovers differently. Some people cant recover from a 10 week cycle of test and some prople recover from years and years use of aas. Personally ive recovered from a 20 week cycle of test tren and deca pct was for 8 weeks with hcg on full blast for first 3 weeks and high dose of clomid and nolva with proper rest heavy lifting and good diet and a ton of healthy fats . 6 weeks after pct test was around 550 normal range 200 to 800. So you gotta try to find out what your body does .

**charger69** · 12-30-2020, 06:05 AM

First off, your numbers are well within range- especially free test. I would not go on TRT until you need to. Just my opinion.
Also, I recommend HCG on cycle and not during PCT. yes, there are some that use HCG during PCT.
During PCT, your whole purpose is to reset your body natural functions. HCG is a hormone and is
preventing your body from resetting.

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**jjz13** · 12-30-2020, 04:42 PM

Good read — I’m running deca (400 mg) at the moment along side sust 250 (600 mg) and tren e (250 mg). Going 16 weeks myself and currently on 12 so my last deca shot is tomorrow. I’ve run deca in the past on all my cycles and honestly felt I recovered pretty fast didn’t feel too much of a dip. I’m starting some HCG tomorrow as my boy recommended, but my balls aren’t very shriveled up hahaha. Gotta find what works for you my man, best wishes.

**charger69** · 12-30-2020, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by jjz13

Good read — I’m running deca (400 mg) at the moment along side sust 250 (600 mg) and tren e (250 mg). Going 16 weeks myself and currently on 12 so my last deca shot is tomorrow. I’ve run deca in the past on all my cycles and honestly felt I recovered pretty fast didn’t feel too much of a dip. I’m starting some HCG tomorrow as my boy recommended, but my balls aren’t very shriveled up hahaha. Gotta find what works for you my man, best wishes.

You are not running too much 19 nor’s but prolactin can buildup.

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**kiki123** · 12-31-2020, 04:09 AM

Originally Posted by jjz13

Good read — I’m running deca (400 mg) at the moment along side sust 250 (600 mg) and tren e (250 mg). Going 16 weeks myself and currently on 12 so my last deca shot is tomorrow. I’ve run deca in the past on all my cycles and honestly felt I recovered pretty fast didn’t feel too much of a dip. I’m starting some HCG tomorrow as my boy recommended, but my balls aren’t very shriveled up hahaha. Gotta find what works for you my man, best wishes.

Good to hear you bounce back ok. Shows that recovery seems to be highly individual, and age to some degree. Would be interested to see how you go during pct for this cycle.

**kiki123** · 12-31-2020, 04:20 AM

Originally Posted by charger69

First off, your numbers are well within range- especially free test. I would not go on TRT until you need to. Just my opinion.
Also, I recommend HCG on cycle and not during PCT. yes, there are some that use HCG during PCT.
During PCT, your whole purpose is to reset your body natural functions. HCG is a hormone and is
preventing your body from resetting.

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Agree that most will advise to run hcg in pct. Interesting way of thinking though, has some logic to it. On the other side of the coin, slowly tapering down the hcg dose during pct could help kickstart the body's recovery, no ?

**jjz13** · 12-31-2020, 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by kiki123

Good to hear you bounce back ok. Shows that recovery seems to be highly individual, and age to some degree. Would be interested to see how you go during pct for this cycle.

I’ll keep ya posted G

**charger69** · 12-31-2020, 06:29 AM

Originally Posted by kiki123

Agree that most will advise to run hcg in pct. Interesting way of thinking though, has some logic to it. On the other side of the coin, slowly tapering down the hcg dose during pct could help kickstart the body's recovery, no ?

I have always just stopped. Like an on-off switch. Tapering down would delay the start up IMO.
I have no data to base this on and I haven’t really heard of anyone tapering down, but I am sure someone, somewhere does taper.

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**kelkel** · 12-31-2020, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by kiki123

Agree that most will advise to run hcg in pct. Interesting way of thinking though, has some logic to it. On the other side of the coin, slowly tapering down the hcg dose during pct could help kickstart the body's recovery, no ?

No. You never run HCG during pct. HCG is suppressive to LH/FSH production from the pituitary therefore continuing using it is counter productive to stimulating normal endogenous production. Same logic with testosterone , when you inject exogenous test your own body recognizes this and slowly ceases producing it.

**Test Monsterone** · 12-31-2020, 04:57 PM

HCG should only be taken during PCT if you never took it during the cycle. That is because it is easier for your pituitary to recover than the testes. Once the feedback mechanism is no longer hi jacked after a cycle, the pituitary pretty quickly realizes this and starts producing LH/FSH. You can have all the LH/FSH in the world but the testes are going to dictate your recovery in the end.

**Lethal Hamburger** · 12-31-2020, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by kiki123

At 38yo my free test is currently 484pmol/L. Range 198-619. Testosterone 23.9nmol/L. Range 8.7-29.0. So definitely on the higher range of normal. No idea what that is in ng/dL.

Think ill take on board the 19nor recovery risk and go for another run of test. Won't be self prescribing TRT as New Zealand is difficult to source gear but we do have a few trt clinics.

Hej Kiki123. I too am in nz. Your gp will refer you to an endocrinologist if your test levels come back low in 2 consecutive tests.

Nandros are hard to bounce back from for most. As time goes by trt will be likely the more gear you run over the years.

Gear no probs. I self trt.
Hope this helps, I am under 25 posts so have limited ability to reply.
Chur

**Lethal Hamburger** · 01-01-2021, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by charger69

I have always just stopped. Like an on-off switch. Tapering down would delay the start up IMO.
I have no data to base this on and I haven’t really heard of anyone tapering down, but I am sure someone, somewhere does taper.

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Ditto here. Even after 16 weeks on the long ester nandro at moderate dose I just came off. Nolva for me works best on and never did
pct. I personally never had shrinkage but absolutely got shut down hard.
I spoke to my endo and she was puzzled by the pct concept. Her opinion was, why use more stuff that manipulates the hpga when your body is attempting to regain homeostasis. My experience agrees with her but I do understand others might respond differently.

**Gallowmere** · 01-01-2021, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by Lethal Hamburger

Ditto here. Even after 16 weeks on the long ester nandro at moderate dose I just came off. Nolva for me works best on and never did
pct. I personally never had shrinkage but absolutely got shut down hard.
I spoke to my endo and she was puzzled by the pct concept. Her opinion was, why use more stuff that manipulates the hpga when your body is attempting to regain homeostasis. My experience agrees with her but I do understand others might respond differently.

She’s not the only one. Even Broderick Chavez (one of the most reputable AAS coaches in the world) has been quoted multiple times saying “want to recover from drugs? Stop taking fucking drugs, all of them. Trying to game the system just ends up fucking you in the end.”

**Lethal Hamburger** · 01-01-2021, 03:09 AM

Originally Posted by Gallowmere

She’s not the only one. Even Broderick Chavez (one of the most reputable AAS coaches in the world) has been quoted multiple times saying “want to recover from drugs? Stop taking fucking drugs, all of them. Trying to game the system just ends up fucking you in the end.”

Lee Priest likewise..
I suspect the parroted pct dogma we often hear/read is a result from anacdotal evidence. The idea is to retain the lean body mass gained during cycle and for the hpga to recover, post cycle. These results vary so much from individual to individual. There are so many factors at play for example, compounds, doses, duration of use, polypharmacy, individual physiology, diet, lifestyle etc. A clinicians nightmare!
Having not pctd myself and looking at the results from those who do on forums and in person.. Why bother??

This is just a hunch, I expect users would bounce back regardless of pct or non pct from first low dose and limited compound cycles. As they progress the hx of use builds and with it the inevitable compromising of the hpga ability to establish homeostasis. An individuals physiology and genetics would also dictate the likelihood of recovery. Some unfortunate souls get broken after a first cycle of 500 test...