Proviron PCT & all that

[< <Samson> >]

I’m taking a leap off the roids to try to knock up the wife

So,

This is what I came up with

Clomid - & lotts of it. Someone suggested Enclomiphene - but, apparently it only comes as a research chem - I prefer real rX for this, so I’ll battle with good ol’ awful clomid

LongJack - apparently it’s a thing

Tons of trib

Double my dose of cialis(to 10mg daily)

And, last - but, not least Proviron < I’m hoping for it to save my ass from going dickless & insane - right now, I only take 20-25mg daily + 200mg a week of test & 75mg of Deca & I’m horny af - planning to double it to 40-50mg daily


Any input?

No idea how long I will last before buckling back to the spike

[Test Monsterone]

My buddy is with Dr. Prisk in Pittsburgh (he was a competitor himself and is pro bodyuilder Seth Feroce's doc), and he had him on 50 mg clomid a day with around 1500 mg HCG EOD. I think he asked my buddy to drop the HCG last time I talked to him, so I think he's just on clomid now. Are you going through a doc for your fertility treatment? HCG is pretty damn expensive if going the legit way, from what I hear. I think he was paying like $250/vial for 1 month worth. Don't think insurance covers HCG. I can get HCG for around $60 of a 10,000 IU bottle from India (HUCOG).

Not sure if tribulus does anything. I took some once and I was horny as shit for a couple of hours, but then I never got that effect again from tribulus. I feel for you, though. I'm going to be doing the same later this year. Fuckin sucks.

[< <Samson> >]

My buddy is with Dr. Prisk in Pittsburgh (he was a competitor himself and is pro bodyuilder Seth Feroce's doc), and he had him on 50 mg clomid a day with around 1500 mg HCG EOD. I think he asked my buddy to drop the HCG last time I talked to him, so I think he's just on clomid now. Are you going through a doc for your fertility treatment? HCG is pretty damn expensive if going the legit way, from what I hear. I think he was paying like $250/vial for 1 month worth. Don't think insurance covers HCG. I can get HCG for around $60 of a 10,000 IU bottle from India (HUCOG).

Not sure if tribulus does anything. I took some once and I was horny as shit for a couple of hours, but then I never got that effect again from tribulus. I feel for you, though. I'm going to be doing the same later this year. Fuckin sucks.

That’s one thing I have a grip of is HCG

But, didn’t think it’d do well while on Clomid & the other shit

My hope is the Proviron really


The wife says I won’t make it - gotta prove er’ wrong. Lol

What I posted is the best combo I came up with - I’m doing this all on my own, no MD

[yeahbuddy289]

Both times I came off to get my wife pregnant I took 50mg of Clomid 2x a day. I also used Ashwagandha root, vitamin c, vitamin d, zinc, vitamin e, and a couple other things. The vitamin e is suppose to increase the effectiveness of Clomid. This worked very well for me. I went from having absolutely zero sperm (verified by two fertility tests) to having a way above average count and a “high volume” noted on the test results… I’m extremely proud of that lol

[Test Monsterone]

Both times I came off to get my wife pregnant I took 50mg of Clomid 2x a day. I also used Ashwagandha root, vitamin c, vitamin d, zinc, vitamin e, and a couple other things. The vitamin e is suppose to increase the effectiveness of Clomid. This worked very well for me. I went from having absolutely zero sperm (verified by two fertility tests) to having a way above average count and a “high volume” noted on the test results… I’m extremely proud of that lol

How long was it from when you got off trt/cycle until you had very good sperm levels would you say? Did you take clomid the whole way through? No HCG ? Was it rough? I think I remember you saying you were suffering there for a while last year or 2. Good tips btw.

[< <Samson> >]

How long was it from when you got off trt/cycle until you had very good sperm levels would you say? Did you take clomid the whole way through? No HCG? Was it rough? I think I remember you saying you were suffering there for a while last year or 2. Good tips btw.

Same shit I was gonna ask

How long & how miserable

[JaneDoe]

Does HCG work?

[JaneDoe]

How long did it take you to bring back sperm volume ? Is HCG not suppressive or in the case of fertility plans do things change?

[JaneDoe]

Samson you didn't run the HCG intra-cycle?

[JaneDoe]

Well i'm searching and i found this!



Gonadotropins and Testosterone

Treatment of infertility in a man with hypogonadism (low testosterone and low LH)


hypogonadotropic hypogonadism

The patient with infertility due to hypogonadotropic hypogonadism usually has a good prognosis when treated properly.

Hyperprolactinemia is a frequent cause of hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, due to inhibition of the reproductive axis by prolactin. Among the most frequent causes are prolactinomas (micro if smaller than 1 cm and macro if larger than 1 cm), pharmacological and functional (eg hypothyroidism). Appropriate treatment is to treat the underlying cause, ie to reduce prolactin levels. In prolactinomas (micro or macros), the initial treatment is with dopamine agonists, which reduce prolactin levels, and consequently lead to the restoration of the HHT axis (therapeutic response depends on several factors and surgical procedures are not ruled out; a comprehensive review on the treatment of prolactinomas is beyond the scope of this chapter). Cabergoline is currently the drug of choice, as it has a better response rate, fewer side effects, better acceptance and better dosage. Generally, the use of 1 tablet of 0.5 mg of cabergoline per week is usually enough for the normalization of prolactin in most cases. Rarely, doses as high as 3.5 mg/week may be necessary to normalize serum prolactin levels and reduce prolactinoma volume. The most common side effects of dopamine agonists are nausea, vomiting, dizziness, postural hypotension, syncope, headache, and nasal congestion. In cases of resistance to dopamine agonists (which can occur in 10% of cases of prolactinomas), drug intolerance, or compressive symptoms caused by macroprolactinomas that have not reduced in size after starting drug treatment, surgical treatment of prolactinoma is indicated. . There are situations in which the HHT axis may not be fully restored after chronic hyperprolactinemia. In this case, adjuvant treatments are being studied in the literature, but in general, they will resemble the treatment of idiopathic or genetic hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, which will be discussed below.

If hypogonadism is caused by a treatable disease or a triggering factor that is possibly withdrawn (such as alcohol abuse, drugs such as marijuana, opioids, corticosteroids, among others), the underlying disease must be treated and the offending factor removed. for frame reversibility.

In cases of idiopathic, genetic hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (as in Kallmann syndrome), structural lesions of the hypothalamic-pituitary region (tumors, surgeries, irradiation, infectious or infiltrative diseases, etc.) prior to anabolic androgenic steroids , specific treatment for infertility should be initiated.

hCG - Human Chorionic Gonadotropin



Currently, one of the first-line treatments recommended to be started in this situation is testicular stimulation with human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) produced by genetic engineering.

hCG is a molecule very similar to LH. Both share the same alpha subunit, and are distinguished by small changes between their beta subunits. hCG is able to bind and stimulate LH receptors on Leydig cells, functioning as an LH analogue. The use of hCG is proven to be effective in most cases in increasing intratesticular testosterone production in patients who do not have primary dysfunction in their Leydig cells. And it is often able to restore spermatogenesis without the need for additional medications.

Several protocols have been carried out in services that treat male infertility, aiming to find the best dosage and dosage of hCG for this purpose.

Reviewing the literature, we found protocols with subcutaneous or intramuscular injections of hCG, from doses of 500 IU to 3,000 IU of hCG, twice a week up to alternate days.

We recommend starting with smaller doses such as 1,000 IU every other day, increasing the dose by 50% every 1-2 months if serum testosterone levels do not normalize with the dosage used. The use of hCG may increase the risk of thromboembolic events, in addition to gynecomastia , acne, testicular pain, water retention, headache, depression, irritation and skin reactions at the application sites (erythema, pain and allergic reactions).

If the patient remains in azoospermia and infertility even after 6 months of treatment with hCG alone:

Recombinant FSH



We recommend starting the now combined stimulation of both Leydig cells and Sertoli cells. These can be stimulated by the subcutaneous injection of recombinant human FSH, also produced by genetic engineering. Recombinant FSH showed good results when applied in average doses of 75 to 150 IU 3x per week. Although most cases of hypogonadotropic hypogonadism obtain satisfactory results with the use of recombinant FSH plus hCG within the first 4 months of treatment, a long treatment period of up to 18 months may be necessary to achieve fertility. In these cases, the dose of recombinant FSH can be increased to 225 IU 3xweek if the patient remains azoospermic even after 6 months of treatment, or to 300 IU 3x weekly if the azoospermia remains even after 1 year of treatment. It is generally a very safe and effective medication, but it can occasionally cause side effects such as headache, acne, gynecomastia, varicocele, weight gain, flu-like symptoms, skin reactions at the application site and a slight increase in the risk of events. thromboembolic.

An interesting fact that studies have shown is that men with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism do not need to achieve a sperm count with a normal sperm count in order to achieve fertility. Many studies have shown patients who achieved fertility with very low counts, such as only 1 to 1.5 million sperm per ml. About 90% of patients with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism achieve at least 1 million sperm/ml in the spermogram after 1 year of treatment with hCG and recombinant FSH, when patients with a history of cryptorchidism or any other risk factor for testicular injury are excluded. prior primary. If the patient does not obtain fertility even after 20 months in combined treatment with hCG associated with LH, or after 8 months having already reached a count of at least 5 million spermatozoa/ml, in the spermogram, the use of techniques should be indicated. assisted reproduction, as detailed later in this chapter.

Another therapeutic possibility for the treatment of infertility caused by hypogonadotropic hypogonadism of hypothalamic cause is treatment with a pulsatile subcutaneous infusion of GnRH, performed using a high-cost continuous infusion pump, generally available only in referral centers and tertiary hospitals. . The pump is pre-programmed to infuse pulsatile doses of 100 to 400 ng/kg of GnRH every 90 to 120 minutes into the subcutaneous tissue of the patient's abdominal wall. Due to its high cost, inconvenience, low availability and lack of response in cases where hypogonadism is caused by pituitary disease, this type of treatment is currently under-performed.

Clomiphene Citrate

Clomiphene citrate is a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM), which binds to estrogen receptors without stimulating them, functioning as an antagonist of these receptors. In this way, it inhibits the negative feedback that estrogen exerts on the hypothalamic and pituitary cells and, thus, activates a greater production of GnRH and endogenous gonadotropins.

We recommend doses such as 25 mg daily or 50 mg every other day are usually sufficient to stimulate greater production of intratesticular testosterone and, consequently, sperm in patients who still have a partial hypothalamic-pituitary reserve. Its use can be isolated or associated with other techniques such as hCG.

Gonadotropic stimulation with clomiphene is especially useful in cases of functional hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, without anatomic or structural hypothalamic-pituitary lesion, as is the case, for example, in cases of patients with hypogonadism due to obesity and metabolic syndrome, who usually respond very well to this type of treatment. , because they have high levels of estradiol, which strongly suppresses the HHT axis, or even in cases of hyperprolactinemia in which the axis does not reestablish itself properly after a reduction in prolactin levels. However, studies that guarantee the safety of its long-term use are still lacking, so that its use for this purpose is still considered off-label.

Aromatase Inhibitors

The use of aromatase inhibitors may also be useful for the treatment of hypogonadotropic hypogonadism caused by hyperestrogenism. However, unwanted effects such as loss of bone mass make this type of treatment unsafe for long-term use.

For patients with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism who wish to preserve future fertility but who are not currently seeking fertility treatment, a good treatment option would be the combination of classic androgen therapy with low doses of subcutaneous or intramuscular hCG. Hsieh and Cols demonstrated preservation of spermatogenesis in hypogonadal men who received 500 IU of subcutaneous hCG every other day, associated with classic therapy with topical or intramuscular testosterone, when comparing the patient's baseline spermogram with a new spermogram collected after 1 year of treatment. Other studies showed that doses as low as 250 IU every 2 days were already able to maintain intratesticular testosterone levels within the normal range while patients were undergoing classical androgen therapy.

[JaneDoe]

The HCG in cases of fertility treatment seems to be good, and even better that the HCG is the injectable FSH for what I'm researching ....... How about trying HCG+ Clomid +FSH injectable

[yeahbuddy289]

How long was it from when you got off trt/cycle until you had very good sperm levels would you say? Did you take clomid the whole way through? No HCG? Was it rough? I think I remember you saying you were suffering there for a while last year or 2. Good tips btw.

I found out end of June 2019 my count was zero. I was on test and deca at the time, as well as hcg . I dropped everything the day I got the results of the fertility test. This was my biggest fear about using aas so naturally I was a bit freaked out.

I started using Clomid shortly after. 50mg a day was prescribed by my doctor, but I added in another 50mg per day that I sourced myself. I did not use hcg as I felt there wasn’t much of a need for it. I did take Clomid the whole way through at 100mg a day.

It took me at least two months for my test levels to bottom out, I’d say around late July/early august I started feeling like crap, and the blood work backed that up-low fsh, lh, free, and total t. But by September my lh and fsh finally came up, as did my testosterone . I did another fertility test in early November, which came back with great numbers. At that point I already knew I got my sperm count up because my wife and I found out we were pregnant shortly before we got the results of my fertility test lol.

The first couple months weren’t bad as I was still coming down from the test e I was on. But once I crashed it was terrible. Absolutely no desire to have sex. My wife had to force me to do it so we could conceive. It literally felt like a chore. I’ve suffered terribly in the gym as well. It’s really going to suck.. there’s no way around it. I was absolutely dreading coming off and doing this all over again for us to conceive our second child, but we did it, and now when the time is right, I can jump back on gear and never look back. Like I said, it will suck, the gym will suffer, you will have no desire for sex (which is a very weird feeling) but in the end it will be worth it. I looked at it with a sort of bodybuilder mentality- stay focused on the goal, stay disciplined, take the right drugs/supplements, and just keep moving forward.

Any questions or if you just need to vent I’m here lol it’s a tough road to go down for sure, but once it’s over that first cycle you run is going to be amazing lol

[< <Samson> >]

I found out end of June 2019 my count was zero. I was on test and deca at the time, as well as hcg . I dropped everything the day I got the results of the fertility test. This was my biggest fear about using aas so naturally I was a bit freaked out.

I started using Clomid shortly after. 50mg a day was prescribed by my doctor, but I added in another 50mg per day that I sourced myself. I did not use hcg as I felt there wasn’t much of a need for it. I did take Clomid the whole way through at 100mg a day.

It took me at least two months for my test levels to bottom out, I’d say around late July/early august I started feeling like crap, and the blood work backed that up-low fsh, lh, free, and total t. But by September my lh and fsh finally came up, as did my testosterone . I did another fertility test in early November, which came back with great numbers. At that point I already knew I got my sperm count up because my wife and I found out we were pregnant shortly before we got the results of my fertility test lol.

The first couple months weren’t bad as I was still coming down from the test e I was on. But once I crashed it was terrible. Absolutely no desire to have sex. My wife had to force me to do it so we could conceive. It literally felt like a chore. I’ve suffered terribly in the gym as well. It’s really going to suck.. there’s no way around it. I was absolutely dreading coming off and doing this all over again for us to conceive our second child, but we did it, and now when the time is right, I can jump back on gear and never look back. Like I said, it will suck, the gym will suffer, you will have no desire for sex (which is a very weird feeling) but in the end it will be worth it. I looked at it with a sort of bodybuilder mentality- stay focused on the goal, stay disciplined, take the right drugs/supplements, and just keep moving forward.

Any questions or if you just need to vent I’m here lol it’s a tough road to go down for sure, but once it’s over that first cycle you run is going to be amazing lol

Great info man!

How long were you on gear?

I take HCG 2x weekly at 250iu rn

Kind of the mentality I am trying to keep


But, I’m also interested in what Proviron will bring to the table

100mg a day of Clomid < fuuuck! Lol

[Test Monsterone]

Yeahbuddy, appreciate the breakdown. I wonder if you had just been on trt before if the comedown would have been quite as bad? As you know, deca is known to cause long lasting issues after it is stopped. 100 mg a week of Clomid is a lot! My friend said he started having vision problems on that. I also hear it makes people feel like shit. You’re right though, we’re gonna have to treat this as a process and just get through it, rough as it may be.

[< <Samson> >]

Like the wife said “I won’t make it”

It’s not easy being full of estrogen & dickless for months at a time, along with watching your body fall apart

I was “hoping” it’d happen on its own since me coming home from icu - I “tried” dozens of times - nothing


But, no one so far or anywhere really mentions the use of Proviron . I’m hoping this shit can at least give me a leg to stand on - and, it seems to have similar off cycle effects as clomid.

[Windex]

Like the wife said “I won’t make it”

It’s not easy being full of estrogen & dickless for months at a time, along with watching your body fall apart

I was “hoping” it’d happen on its own since me coming home from icu - I “tried” dozens of times - nothing


But, no one so far or anywhere really mentions the use of Proviron. I’m hoping this shit can at least give me a leg to stand on - and, it seems to have similar off cycle effects as clomid.

If you are concerned about losing size you do have options to mitigate the loss - MK677, Cardarine, etc

[< <Samson> >]

If you are concerned about losing size you do have options to mitigate the loss - MK677, Cardarine, etc

Size is one thing - the usability of my cock is another(primary, actually) - what's mk677 tho?


This one just popped in my mind, can I jump on GH when i'M going through this self induced hell?

[< <Samson> >]

To add, I think my new vial of test is bunk - I’ve been feeling like ass for the last 3-5 days - it’s been about 3 weeks since I came off the old vial.

I have another appointment with my PCP next week, so I’m gonna get a complete blood work panel & go from there - I guess

[yeahbuddy289]

Sampson, the second time I came off I was only on a trt dose of testosterone and nothing else, besides hcg . And it was just as bad as coming off higher testosterone and deca … made no difference unfortunately. Yeah 100mg is quite a bit but I didn’t care, all I cared about was getting my fertility back. It probably wasn’t the smart thing to do but it worked (although I’m sure 50mg would have worked too). After we got pregnant this second and final time, I stopped Clomid all together, because even though it got my testosterone up, I didn’t feel good, I was basically gaining nothing from it other than good numbers on paper. Once I get the green light from the wife, I’ll be jumping back on the needle lol. We just want to make sure everything is as good as it can be with this pregnancy before I completely shut myself down again.

I honestly considered proviron this time around for the same reasons you are but, I figured I would do everything the same as last time because it worked so well, other than feeling like shit lol.

Oh, and the first time I went through this, I had been on gear for a solid 3 years, blasting and cruising. I had used aas on and off for a total of about 6 years.

[< <Samson> >]

The first time I went through this, I had been on gear for a solid 3 years, blasting and cruising. I had used aas on and off for a total of about 6 years.

I’ve been on for pretty much a decade solid

I posted this on another board, their replies range from - holly hell, to your luck is as good with crossing your fingers to - shit tons of Clomid & GH < and, hope for the best


Man, we’re so glad we had my son - this would really suck if we were kidless at my age in my state - We both fucked up, she had a full tuck & pull after having my son & I was roided out of my mind. Neither one of us planned on having more kids at all. . . It all changed when my hemorrhage happened - a friend was with me, and we’re all ass holes - he’s like what would have as your last wish right now - I said another kid - here we are

[yeahbuddy289]

Yeah man hit it hard and stick to it. It’s going to suck but will be worth it. Just think of how good that first cycle will feel when this is all over lol I know I am counting down the days until I’m back on. Lol

[< <Samson> >]

So, from my research of all over the interweb

No Proviron , No HCG

All homeopathic shit I like + tons of Clomid + HGH - then hope for the best

[Test Monsterone]

Yeah man hit it hard and stick to it. It’s going to suck but will be worth it. Just think of how good that first cycle will feel when this is all over lol I know I am counting down the days until I’m back on. Lol

Hey man, I forgot to ask you the gender of your kids. The reason I ask is because it seems to me like the vast majority of men who are on steroids /trt end up having baby girls.

[yeahbuddy289]

Hey man, I forgot to ask you the gender of your kids. The reason I ask is because it seems to me like the vast majority of men who are on steroids/trt end up having baby girls.

Bro are we the same person?!? Lol I had read and thought the same exact thing!! It actually made me nervous and 100% sure we were having a girl (my wife and I really wanted boys) but to our surprise the first one was a boy! She just got the blood work done for the genetic testing so we will know the gender of this baby very soon.

[Test Monsterone]

Bro are we the same person?!? Lol I had read and thought the same exact thing!! It actually made me nervous and 100% sure we were having a girl (my wife and I really wanted boys) but to our surprise the first one was a boy! She just got the blood work done for the genetic testing so we will know the gender of this baby very soon.

Nice, congrats. I’ve heard it said by others, too, which let me know I must not be the only one seeing this trend. Let us know when you find out with this one. Either way it’s good as long as it’s healthy.

[Swilderbeast]

Hey man, I forgot to ask you the gender of your kids. The reason I ask is because it seems to me like the vast majority of men who are on steroids/trt end up having baby girls.

Crazy you mention this. I had a daughter back in 2016. If you follow the male side of my family (the side deciding gender) you have to go back 80 years to the last female born. I had completed my last cycle in early 2015, met my then to be fiancée, and we got pregnant october 2015. So not sure how long that can be affected but interesting to see that’s happened with other people.

[yeahbuddy289]

Nice, congrats. I’ve heard it said by others, too, which let me know I must not be the only one seeing this trend. Let us know when you find out with this one. Either way it’s good as long as it’s healthy.

We’re having another boy!! Just found out on Monday!

[< <Samson> >]

We’re having another boy!! Just found out on Monday!

Bad ass! Congrats! You’re the man!

Juice away. Lol

[Test Monsterone]

We’re having another boy!! Just found out on Monday!

Awesome, hell yeah! Killin it in the baby game brother