Proscar+Nolvadex= Very Minimal Gains

**BrownBomber** · 08-12-2003, 03:33 PM

I read on a another board that if you take Nolvadex and proscar (In otherwards an Anti-DHT product and Anti-Estrogen product) that your gains will be greatly reduced. Is this true? Can it really effect your gains that much?

Thanks

**BDTR** · 08-12-2003, 03:34 PM

nope.

**956Vette** · 08-12-2003, 03:49 PM

Im actually taking both, and havent really been too impressed with my current cycle so far. If there is a good discussion post the link-id be interested, thanks
But i really dont see why it would do anything too counteractive....finasteride kills my drive, and nolv just keeps my est under control..?

**bobbo23** · 08-12-2003, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by 956Vette

Im actually taking both, and havent really been too impressed with my current cycle so far. If there is a good discussion post the link-id be interested, thanks
But i really dont see why it would do anything too counteractive....finasteride kills my drive, and nolv just keeps my est under control..?

What's your cycle look like?
and How much Nolva and Proscar you taking?

**sp9** · 08-12-2003, 03:58 PM

I am in a test cycle right now. 5th week, strength shot up last week. I am using avodart which supresses dht more than proscar, up to 90+ % instead of 70%. I had some slight gyno symtoms early on but nolva/liquidex stopped them almost immediatley. With the test unable to convert to dht, your test levels will be much higher than normal. Using avodart shifts test levels up by 20% alone without even using AS. I have read all the info on the muscle building value of DHT and I do buy into it, but I still think you will get decent gains while managing hair loss. It's like everything else, if you gain protection on your hair line you will probably lose some % of gains. I am happy though so far.

The avodart also reduces sebum production which is the oil on your skin, so I think it is having a very positive effect on keeping acne at bay. So two sides minimized with .5mg avodart per day. Everyone is a little different so the only way is to try for yourself.

A mod here named the original jason thinks taking a dht inhibitor could equal working out while on on junk food. He believes it will definitley impact gains. I think he's right but to what extent per individual, no one knows.

**sp9** · 08-12-2003, 04:04 PM

Here are some good reads:

http://www.impactnutrition.com/dht.html

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/arnold/dht.htm

**956Vette** · 08-12-2003, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by bobbo23

What's your cycle look like?
and How much Nolva and Proscar you taking?

my anti-es are hcg every 5th day(500iu), nolvadex 20mg ED, .5mg ldex EOD, and proscar 1mg ED.
My cycle is pretty detailed, but it contains prop/enth/eq/var/tren totaling 17wks...

**BrownBomber** · 08-12-2003, 04:39 PM

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hreadid=154486

**sp9** · 08-12-2003, 05:11 PM

There are many mods here that would disagree with pogue on his comments about taking nolva throughout. Also when he says taking proscar equals no DHT he is wrong by a long shot. Proscar will stop about 70% of dht formation not 100%.

**Sonnie** · 08-13-2003, 06:57 PM

bump, wouldn't mind hearing more opinions/research on this

**Needtobeswoledup** · 08-21-2003, 03:47 PM

I read all those opinions and personally am on proscar and experiencing not very good results while on a t400/eq cycle. I'm wondering if this is the cause or part of it? Will nixondril(however u spell it) and spiro be enuf to protect my hair? I am already experiencing some mpb even before cycle and am pre dispositioned to it...

**Needtobeswoledup** · 08-21-2003, 03:50 PM

How long will the proscar continue to effect my dht levels? I'm thinking about going off it for the next 2 weeks and see if that makes a difference....

**sp9** · 08-21-2003, 04:09 PM

Proscar's half life is less than a day, side effects and effectiveness should start to drop almost immediatley.

I'm on avodart, it last for weeks after stopping. I am on a test cycle right now of 500mg cyp per week. Strength is way up in week 6 but I have no bloat, no acne, and I think I have actually lost fat and gained muscle to the point where my mid section is looking much better, while other body parts are looking more full and defined.

**sp9** · 08-21-2003, 04:12 PM

also, went to the barber today, looks like no hair loss at all so far. I personally do believe that gains are reduced when you inhibit DHT but to what degree will be different for each individual. I am enjoying this experiment on myself. You still have 30% of normal DHT on proscar and 10% of normal DHT levels on avodart. Avodart did some great things for me. Proscar kept my hair stable, avodart thickened the entire top of my head. Of course nothing seems to move the hairline at this point but I am holding out for something better to come along in the next few years. Good Luck and let us know what happens once you stop with the proscar.

**Needtobeswoledup** · 08-21-2003, 04:21 PM

scott: how much weight have you gained? I've had the same type of thing.... gained 3-4lbs and gotten leaner... my horniness level is not nearly as high as it should be on test though and i have no acne....

**sp9** · 08-21-2003, 04:26 PM

Up 8 lbs so far. Eating about 3700 cal per day. 1.5 servings of Nlarge 2 in there. Lots of good fats - Olive Oil, nuts, etc. Keeping fiber up around 30 grams per day. I am on test only. My overall mood has been great and my libido is quite well. I can not keep myself down sometimes just while talking to females at work. Sex on the mind constantly and just thinking about a girl and I get all wound up!

**Needtobeswoledup** · 08-21-2003, 04:36 PM

See I haven't had those effects.... one more question for ya since you seem to know a lot about hair loss drugs... if I go off the proscar for 2 weeks and my hair starts falling out quickly and I see no change in my workouts and want to get back on, will it take another 2-3 months to kick back in again like it did in the beggining?

**sp9** · 08-22-2003, 08:12 AM

Going off doesn't cause hair to fall out quickly. Your hair will gradually be attacked by DHT which will shrink the follicle size and shrink the growth period slowly. That's why it takes up to 6 months to see results and 6 months to see them diminished.