Dianabol as a supplement

[O.M.E.G.A]

so in the pm with calcium supplment?

not sure why you added calcium but hey why not ?

I dont think you want to be on Dbol forever or even use it as a "supp"

I just threw it out there to add to this thread

the AM theory was used by people in he past to not crash from there real cycles, and to have a recovery that was slower, but still a recovery

they thought they would keep their gains and recover

the theory made sense and was predicated on the half life of the drug, plus the time of the dosage

[james21]

would doing a low dose of tbol be more effective then a low dose of dbol?

How low of dose of tbol ? 30mg .. .them yes but 15mg as a supplement over a long period of time ... you will see some results not a miracle but it is cheap as hell to do and not any side effects. I would go the tbol route though .... this was also written well before tbol was available again.

[GetRichOrDyeTryin]

Payday for me on the 25.11.05 im going to get some d,bol and do this 10week supplement cycle.it wont take that long for my bol to get here. i will keep everyone posted on whats happining il post back the day i get them or il start a new thread.
whats the info on pct ! what should i get so i can order it 2 .

[vitor]

I have done d-bol over 10-weeks on low dose with good gains. But It did promote bloating, even with nolva!

[james21]

I have done d-bol over 10-weeks on low dose with good gains. But It did promote bloating, even with nolva!

Wow you must be sensitive... it cut me up no bloat no anti-e

[ianchov]

Hey, this seems very interesing thread to me..

But i`ll be happy if some of the big names in the forum come and say something on the subject.....



Also for a beginner - is it better to make a good old TEst only cycle or to try the "supplement" thing..



Regards!

[Farhan]

I want to the do the Dbol for 10 weeks at 15mg
what will the PCT consist of? and when should i start PCT for this
thanx

[ianchov]

BUMP!

I would like know more...

[Lavinco]

BUMP!

I would like know more...

heya is da most you need to know.

Don't do dbol cycle alone and not longer than 4 weeks at 40mg day or less.

[groundandpoundpwr21]

1. nolva does nothing for bloating
2. 5mg why your body makes 10 mgs of test on it on natty.

[Farhan]

bump?

[needbigguns]

iv been on for around 6 months now and my receptors have severly downregulated (or for those who do not belive in this) my gains have really slowed down to a near holt even after taking some Drol i did not see much in terms of gains.. would i see anything from a low dose dbol cycle as im just about to finish but dont want to

[karln]

u take it in the am couse of testosterone spike.... Its like a trick on the body so it doesnt down regulate as much... But this theory is not gona work for every1 i got freinds doing 10 mg dbol and get shut down..... But its a healtthy way of cycling no doubt about it.... iam doing this for 4 weeks until my nex cycle which will be parabolan + test propionate

[fitguy]

Payday for me on the 25.11.05 im going to get some d,bol and do this 10week supplement cycle.it wont take that long for my bol to get here. i will keep everyone posted on whats happining il post back the day i get them or il start a new thread.
whats the info on pct ! what should i get so i can order it 2 .

hey bro did u try that dbol supplement thing , bump 4 anyone who tried this before ..

[man-g]

hey bro did u try that dbol supplement thing , bump 4 anyone who tried this before ..

yeah lets hear some more......

[stupidhippo]

super old thread but my question.. how does this effect the lipid profile? Since orals have such a bad effect on it usually.. that would be my first concerns..

[mcgas7]

what is gyno?

[FromTheWimbo]

WOW what an old post

[Pneumatic]

^ That is my total philosophy regarding steroid use ...a supplement...NOT a entire training regiment wrapped around insane/suicidal dosages only to lose most of the gains and pct being the only way to recover < total insanity in my opinion.

An old post but alotta times those are the best posts.

[Milky87]

Please, PLEASE for the love of all this nice, change your avatar

[tvd220]

Hi doc,
When I was around 20 I started using d-bol in the low dose range. I recall getting my first supply and the supplier,"a workout bro" told me how much to use in one day. The dose seemed quite high,so I went to the doctor and just asked. The doctor really didn't like it but he knew I was going to use it anyway.He said to dose it out at 20mg for 2 weeks then take one week off,and I did make some good gains that way. My max bench was about 250,and I was stuck at that max and couldn't gain anymore. I used the d-bol all by itself at that dosage and was benching over 400 less than a year later.



Cheatcurl

how long did you do this low dose cycle for?

[beachbum28]

No bloat at all. I feel rock hard all the time(my muscles too...lol) and my lifts are climbing faster than ever now. I get a pump doing anything these days....if I hold my cel phone up to my ear too long my bicep starts to burn....I get so much of a pump while brushing my teeth, that I am teaching myself how to brush with my left hand to even it out.......I'm not f*cking around!!!!!

Life is good,

D

That pump comes from water retention in the muscle from the dbol . You may not notice it, but that is for sure the reason. The stuff is good but the pump is always water related even in small doses of 25mg ed.

[Pneumatic]

Please, PLEASE for the love of all this nice, change your avatar

I'll take a horny fat chick w/ tree trunk thighs and a butt that needs its own zip code OVER a bony buttless, breastless, legless weak starved wannabe chick any freakin day!!!

[Pneumatic]

I can remember when 25mg/day would have NEVER been called a "small" dose of Dbol . I wonder if in another 20yrs if 50mg/day will be called a "small" dose??? I certainly hope not. If it is then the line of hopeful liver transplant recipients is gonna be L O N G.

[BruceBanner]

Hi guys, thought I'd share my 2 cents as I just came across this post.
I'm currently experimenting with a low dose 10mg dbol ED 2 weeks on 2 weeks off, course duration indefinite.

I was curious to see the OP use the word 'supplementation' in terms of dbol, and it got me thinking the difference between steroids and supplements. IMO the difference is steroids work whereas supplements don't, steroids can't be used indefinitely (there needs to be time off) whereas supplements can be used all the time without time off (such as popping a vitamin and mineral tablet once a day).
Although the OP was talking about using dbol indifferently to how normally taken I still see it as a steroid cycle, not a supplement. His course duration was 10wks, that doesn't fit in with my psyche of supplementation.

I wanted to see if there was a pattern that could be used that allowed for dbol to be taken like a supplement in that you never really come off, you use it all year round. And so I did a small amount of research and settled on the 10mg/day (taken first thing), 2 wks on, 2wks off, repeat schedule.

I started this course on Wednesday October 9th 2013 and am currently still on that same schedule.

I got blood work done before, and have had several blood tests since. I am working closely with medical supervision as we try and find an optimal schedule. It might be 15mg 2 weeks on 3 weeks off, or 10mg 2 weeks on 1 week off, it's hard to say at this time as we are still in pretty early stages.

I shall share some findings here incase anyone is curious or would like to contribute their 2 cents.

Background

I have a previous history with AS, but I had not taken any for almost a decade prior to this dbol low dose experiment. During that time away from AS I have kept training but of course am a shadow of my former self in terms of size and strength. I am 35yrs old. My reason for choosing dbol is personal, I am not in anyway against needles, indeed having 4 blood tests done in the past 2 months is more of a pain than self administered quick and easy intramuscular injections. I thought it relevant to mention my previous usage and time away from AS as it suggests I should be pretty clean (receptor wise etc) whilst not being a 'beginner' etc.

My test level before taking (mon 7th october 2013) was a pitiful 11.5 (11.5-32 is normal), so I barely made it into 'normal' test levels :/

After 2 weeks on my blood was taken again (tues 22nd oct) and test had risen to 16.0, then another 2 weeks passed (when I was off, mon 4th nov) and blood was taken again, surprisingly my test was even higher at 17.7. Blood has been taken again on tues 19th nov (another 2 weeks on) but i have yet to receive these results.
All throughout the time other health aspects were completely fine, no liver or kidney issues whatsoever, health-wise absolutely ok.

My current doctor is heading back to the uk (from Australia where I live), so I am to receive a new doctor in the new year and continue on, for now I am ceasing the blood tests but continuing on with the same format over the xmas period. I intend to get another blood test in January and at the same time collect the blood test results from 19th November. At this time I will discuss (depending upon results) if we change the dosage and time off etc. Would be nice to have some opinions at that time.

I know 2 weeks on 2 weeks off sounds like lots of minicycles, but if the 2 weeks off is what is needed for health to stay intact, and at the same time the aftermath of dbol benefits still seem to be apparent (remember my test was even higher the following 2 weeks off than on) then I don't really look at it as a collection of minicycles but rather a long term scheduling approach.

During that time my weight hasn't shifted much (i didn't expect it too), but I have definitely felt the effects of dbol (usually by third day on). Easier obtainable pumps, stronger, happier, more energy etc. I have loss fat and become more 'rounder'/muscular. I think tho that the 2 weeks off I become 'flatter' and more 'back to normal' looking. It's probably a case of 2 steps forward 1 step back.

[Fllifter]

This thread was from 2003.....

[BruceBanner]

Lol yeh i'm aware, who knows tho, maybe sum will give it a little love again hahaha

[base4291ball]

I'm glad I came across this old thread, very insightful! Thanks oldies lol

[zeusmarada]

This post is for Bruce Banner. (To the rest of the forum, my apologies for reviving such an old thread.)

Bruce, did you continue with your 10mg d-bol protocol of two weeks on, two weeks off? If you get this post, please share your experiences with us! I'd like to hear about positives, negatives, all of it. And thank you for sharing your experience here for the rest of us to learn from!

This concept certainly flies in the face of how to "normally cycle d-bol," and it makes a lot of sense for guys like me who plateaued long ago, yet I train year in, year out, and simply want to be able to have a boost for recovering, as well as add strength.

[T3ckton1k]

As a natural lifter so far this is quiet interesting but there are a few problems:
-no word mentioned about pct
-the gains won't be great
-chances are that I will not recover 100% and I won't be able to gain naturally after that
-seen guys who did this: dbol cycle only, no pct. I don't know the doses but they did it only for 2-3 weeks and now, almost 1 year since then, they look like women, they lost a lot of the initial mass while working out and using supps.

Imo the theory is worth a shot for steroid users because they have nothing to loose but for me, I don't worry about the liver (the writer is concerned almost only about the liver), I worry about my natural T and if I will be able to gain at the same pace as now.
So, I don't think it is something smart to do, if I want to start gear I would go for something classic and strong like test and deca and not mess around with dbol only just for the sake of 2 months gains...

[BruceBanner]

Hi guys, yes I'm still notified to this thread as it popped up in my email this morning, and I just so happen to have the morning off so am happy to chime in and try to answer questions and address concerns.

Before I get stuck right in I think I it's important to do a wee recap/background info before jumping in, as I feel it's quite relevant and helps correct assumptions many people make.

- I am 36yrs old, I used to take steroids in high quantities from ages 21-25. The cyclic nature of these courses were short duration (6-8wks max), strong dosages (750mg sus250/week, 50mg dbol /day, 1000mg deca etc tapering down). It was a 'get in get out' type strategy favored by the late Paul Borreson. After the 6-8 week course I often had a full 4-5 months completely off to recover. I also used to make my own Fina at home which was very potent and effective (I found tren to be very agreeable with me, sometimes running a tren only course with excellent results).
I tell you this so you understand that I am not a nubie, nor frightened over needles, I am fairly experienced steroid user.

- From the age 25-34 I was completely off steroids. I was focusing on raising a family and underwent a complete relocation abroad, I still kept training naturally, and in fact the first 2-3yrs off steroids I saw an interesting thing occur. As anyone who has taken steroids will tell you, the immediate cessation of steroids results in quite a bit of weight and strength loss. The first year off was about watching my body weight and strength decline, slowly but steadily. But after about 12-14 months it tapered off, I was then able to increase my strength back up to almost preexisting steroid level, BUT whilst my bodyweight stayed down (it never went back up). So when i had my steroid bodyweight of 95kg and benched 'x' I got back to almost benching 'x' again but this time no heavier than 78kg bodyweight. In essence I had a superb strength to bodyweight ratio.
I then relocated country and almost didn't see the gym for 6 whole months. In those 6 months I managed perhaps a workout here or there, but they weren't productive sessions whereby I am seeking somekind of progression (due to moving around and lack of consistency of training equipment). I lost a lot of weight in those 6 months, a good 10kg of LMW that was 'left over' from the previous 2-3yrs of AS.

I see a lot of guys who take steroids and pretty much only train when on gear. When they are between cycles they hardly train, maintenance work at best. I think this is where they go wrong. My own personal experience I saw my weight drop to begin with, but as long as I kept hard consistent natural training in place I was able to hold onto a heck of a lot. It was only during my 6 month absence that I really saw the AS gains fall away, a good 3yrs later after last AS took! In those 6 months I lost AS weight gained AND Natural weight gains lost. For me, there is no argument that natural gains stay around longer, I think that is BS. Gains regardless of how they come can be lost under the right circumstances. I look at my AS history use like this; 6 steps fwd (age 21-25 on steroids), 2 steps back (first year age 25 when I stopped), 1 step forward (second year of being natural, strength coming back but weight the same), 3 steps back (age 27, 6 months of not training properly at all), so overall 2 steps forward....

- About a year or two ago I was working as a self employed cleaner (going on 5yrs, and still am) and that combined with training was taking a toll on my body. I wasn't really interested with obtaining a bodybuilders physique anymore, but rather seeking a 'daddy's little helper'. Due to my knowledge and history with AS I wasn't about to waste funds on useless supplements, I chose to skip all that and seek something that might actually aid in energy and recovery.

- Due to my relocation in a new country I had not made underground contacts for AS so my choice was limited. I did however still have contacts from previous country and used them to import what we felt had the highest success rate for getting through customs, 100dbol/order/package.


Ok, so now u know. Yes I have a history of AS, and no I wasn't looking for dramatic weight gain. I was interested in using dbol in an unconventional fashion for an unconventional reason, and this is really important. So many of us jump to conclusions and assumptions about AS users, we think everyone is after the same thing and that's not always the case. Take a look for example this recent 'physique' class that has been introduced to the Olympia competition. I think some of those men look great (at least upper body wise), the surf boardies is a ridiculous look, probably to hide the underpar leg development <sigh>, but upper bodywise I think some look better than some of the Pro Olympia competitors (slim abs, non bloated look etc). But anyway I digress...

I have now just noticed that I have made some of these points already above in a previous post above <sigh>, has been such a long time since checking in here, so I will now just go ahead and answer the points;

This post is for Bruce Banner. (To the rest of the forum, my apologies for reviving such an old thread.)

Bruce, did you continue with your 10mg d-bol protocol of two weeks on, two weeks off? If you get this post, please share your experiences with us! I'd like to hear about positives, negatives, all of it. And thank you for sharing your experience here for the rest of us to learn from!

This concept certainly flies in the face of how to "normally cycle d-bol," and it makes a lot of sense for guys like me who plateaued long ago, yet I train year in, year out, and simply want to be able to have a boost for recovering, as well as add strength.

Yes I did, for about a year. In reality the course became a 10mg/day (first thing), with possibly the odd second 10mg around midday done only once or twice in that 14 day period (especially if I hit the gym a second time that day, FYI my workouts are very brief anyway, 20-30mins max, 1-2 exercises). The off period was brought down to 10 days. So it was 14 on, 10 off running at 10mg/day mostly, with the possible 20mg/day done just once or twice. I decided to bring the off time down a little as repeatedly I felt as tho days 10-14 I was running fairly catabolic. It's almost like the 10 days off I was still feeling anabolic somewhat, and I wanted to keep riding that anabolic wave as best as I could.

Blood was drawn consistently over the year, never at any time were liver or any other organs compromised. Eventually I was seeing a new doctor who was very blase about the whole thing, his opinion being that 10mg was hardly anything at all, that the human body would deal and cope with it fine and that harm was extremely unlikely to occur from such cautious use. Adaptation was my main enemy he said, and that even running a course like this be careful that you don't adapt i.e. that consecutive 14 day cycles would recover you less and less and results would not be so prolific etc.

Well anyway, after a year of doing this course I reweighed myself and had gained around 5kg of LMW. I can say this as being an exPT I am very aware of bodyfat %'s and was at very similar levels one year later.
5kg might not seem like a lot to some, perhaps feasibly achievable naturally for some, but for someone who has been training as long as I have, the history I have, I can tell you now, that the previous 9yrs of being natural I did not see 5kg/yr weight increases!

I also felt positively better on dbol, more anabolic/pumped, dare is say it... more 'masculine'. Erections were better as was sex drive/sex life. During off periods I felt no 'come down' (those 10 days off felt pretty similar to being on tbh).
Around October last year and one of my 100dbol packages was ceased by customs, so I cruised back to natural mode over the holiday season. It was during this longer off period that I noticed that 'catabolic' feeling creeping back in, but I would say that the gains have mostly stayed and not vanished.
About 2-3 months ago I received another 100dbol, this time successfully passing customs and I began where I left off. It had been a full 6 months or so since I was last 'on', and boy did my body know about it. Within the first 2-3 days the feeling was quite incredibly intense, anabolic bliss again. It really made me wonder, perhaps 10 days off was not enough, perhaps a month off and 14 on would be a better idea, perhaps adaptation was occuring on some level like the doctor surmised. Perhaps longer off periods would be more benefit and that the 14 on would be of higher quality with less adaption qualities... food for thought.


My personal experience has proved that AS can be used in a manner similar to supplements whereby there is minimal to no adverse reactions, but of course the changes that take place are far more subtle. I am interested to try Anavar (if I can get my hands on it), running by itself and also in conjunction with dbol, again in a low dosage manner.
I fear there is much stigma attached to dbol being harmful etc, where I have blood reports for a years worth of 14 days on and 10 off with zero adverse effects (or at least nothing in the blood work report that highlights an area of concern and needs warranting further investigation. All numbers fall within acceptable parameters). Scaremongering perhaps...

As a natural lifter so far this is quiet interesting but there are a few problems:
-no word mentioned about pct
-the gains won't be great
-chances are that I will not recover 100% and I won't be able to gain naturally after that
-seen guys who did this: dbol cycle only, no pct. I don't know the doses but they did it only for 2-3 weeks and now, almost 1 year since then, they look like women, they lost a lot of the initial mass while working out and using supps.

Imo the theory is worth a shot for steroid users because they have nothing to loose but for me, I don't worry about the liver (the writer is concerned almost only about the liver), I worry about my natural T and if I will be able to gain at the same pace as now.
So, I don't think it is something smart to do, if I want to start gear I would go for something classic and strong like test and deca and not mess around with dbol only just for the sake of 2 months gains...

- I never took any PCT, because I was never in shutdown mode. 10mg/day 14 days was not enough to cause shutdown. Was never impotent and always had adequate sex drive (this includes the 6 months off).
- Correct, the gain aren't great, but then that was never the aim. The aim was to aid in recovery and perhaps over the long haul help pass some 'sticking points' in training, which I am happy to comment was a success. 5kg/year might be an accepted rate of progress.
- I'm not sure what you mean by this point. Please clarify. If you mean that after this 14 days on 14 off cycle, that once you run out of dbol, that suddenly all the gains and hard work will vanish and you will end up worse than you started with I would say that's false. The rate of progress is so slow that the gains are more like natural gains, they don't fall away easily as long as training is kept up. In my experience I can work for 4 months naturally, gain well in strength and weight, get sick or ill, and lose it all. So natural gains for me are a ****ing curse, a) harder to come by and b) lose just as easily as AS gains. YMMV tho
- My first ever cycle was dbol only, 50mg/day tapering down, I put on 2 stone in 6 weeks, lost 1 stone overall about 4 months later, kept the 1 stone gain. Steroids are in effect 2 steps forward 1 step back, but ALWAYS you can go 2 steps fwd and 3 steps back if you are a ****tard with yer life and stuff up so many aspects of it (this goes for natural lifters too). With my 2wk on/10 days off strat I was trying to go 0.2 steps fwd, 0.175 steps back, repeat (if u get my drift).

Bodybuilding is 100% about genetics, how your genetics reacts with training and diet naturally AND how it reacts with AS use. I could not believe my eyes at times when I saw competitive BB's who had taken a year out and started back in the gym, they looked like SHIT. I mean SHIT, like a fat lard ass who had never lifted a weight, yet a year earlier could walk on a stage and bring a trophy home! The transformations they can achieve in such a short space of time is mind boggling! Wasn't it Ronnie Coleman himself who turned pro in 2yrs?!

As someone who was a Personal Trainer, I trained guys who surpassed my level of strength and development within 6 months of starting out (compared to my decade long training). Genetics.

My point in writing this is that you don't really know all the facts of these people who do AS, who look like this and then look like that later, it's almost meaningless information as it misses out so many other components and factors. Don't judge what others do and happened to them as gospel is my point. For all you know AS use will do everything you aim for with no ill effects. I have always believed there is Steroid use and Steroid abuse , know the difference.

[zeusmarada]

@Bruce Banner, dude, thank you for sharing your experiences this past few years! It is very helpful in my own decision making process.

Currently, I'm almost 40. I'm in the USA. As the years have gone on, I've learned that it takes much longer for me to recover from workouts. I've been tired, lethargic, depressed, low libido, and in general I just feel beat down. I don't live a stressful life, but I do have two little boys under the age of 5 who are exhausting, so I'd say my stress level is "a little high." However, regardless of feeling wiped out all of the time, I still feel pretty positive. I laugh a lot, I still have a zest to live, but in general my lethargy has taken its toll on me.

After going to the doctor and doing a lot of blood tests, it turns out I have low testosterone (I've gone from 400 to 320 in the past two years) but my doctor is not willing to prescribe me TRT at this point in my life because I'm still "normal."

I've always eaten plenty of veggies, mostly pastured meat (with the exception of hot wings on game day), plenty of wild game, pastured eggs, and I love fruit. In the past, I've always grown a big garden, but this year I'm simply too tired to grow my own salsa and salad. As a result of learning that my current lethargic condition really is because of low T, I've decided to make some dietary adjustments (eating less highly processed wheat products and even though I don't hit the beer a lot, I'm drinking very little beer anymore).

Most importantly, I've also decided that I'm going to prolong the need for TRT until I absolutely feel I'm at rock bottom.

My history: I played American football in my youth, lifted weights through my 20s like I was still competing (even though I wasn't) then in my 30s I started actually TRAINING my muscles (utilizing the mind-muscle connection). As a result, I can say that I've only really TRAINED for about five years. I have had to adjust my lifts due to mild shoulder injuries over the years, but in general, I'm pretty healthy and strong, especially considering I have such low testosterone . I peaked in strength and size a few years ago, but I still like going to the gym four days a week. I'm simply tired and it takes me much longer to recover.

I've never utilized AAS before, but I'm certainly at a point where I'm ready. I've peaked what I can do naturally (within my lifestyle limits, but then again I'll never be a stage competitor anyways), I have a family that I want to be stronger for, I listen to vets when they talk & teach, I certainly don't want to f**k up my hormones for the remainder of my life, I don't have anything to prove in the weight room, and I know my goals.

GOALS: To gain vitality, recover from training more efficiently, not make a bad cycle decision that ruins my liver or what's left of my hormones forever, and utilize all strength and energy gained from AAS in my daily life to love my wife, kiddos and community.

When I discovered the idea of using dianabol in the manner described in the first post of this thread, a light bulb went off in my mind. I could at least TRY this protocol for two months as my first real cycle and adjust from there. A 10mg dbol in the morning piggy backs natural T. Yes, there might be slight shut down over time, but by not abusing the substance, there's a chance that I could really benefit from this protocol.

Yes, I know that this is not TRT. This is AAS.

The protocol described in the first post makes a lot of sense for my AAS goals. Gain vitality. Recover more quickly. Not mess myself up. Ease myself into AAS. Plus, it's fairly cheap and I don't have to worry about purchasing gear or needles for this first go around. (The dogma against oral only cycles is incredible, regardless of the copies studies done in regards to oral only cycles. The dogma is utterly freaking mind blowing.) Don't worry, I'm not afraid to pin, it's just that if I can use dbol as a supp for my lifestyle as is for right now, then that's a perfect fit.

My original thought was to do an eight week cycle where I up my lifting from four days a week to five. 10mg in the morning, 5 days a week, weekends off, eight weeks off. That's 50mg a week spread out over the five days, weekends off, for a total of 400mg used over an eight week cycle. It gives my liver plenty of time to heal, and my body plenty of time to adapt. When I'm done with a cycle, I'll drop back down to four days a week in the gym.

@Bruce, when I read your idea of "two weeks on, two off" with weekends off, that also got my brain going. It's not TRT, but it really is A BRILLIANT WAY TO USE LOW DOSE DBOL TO SUPPLEMENT TRAINING! The benefits would match my goals exactly. So, dude, thank you for sharing your experiences!

I'm doing "Dry July" (no booze to rest my liver) and I'll start my first cycle in August. My thought, for now, is to do my eight week trial through the end of September, take October and November off, then I might try the "two on, two (or three) off" through the winter. We'll see how my body and brain respond. I'm excited, but cautious.

My turn to keep you all posted on this adventure. Cheers friends! -Zeus M

[BruceBanner]

Funny to read the above, you parallel a lot about my own life right now. I'm 36, father of two (8 and 5yr old), and I too scored absolutely lowest of the low for test score, and again doc was not willing to even consider TRT. I mean of course low test is not diagnosed from one reading (much the same way as determining if someone has high blood pressure), but for sure that reading did not come as a surprise to me.
The thing about norms and what not is that someone (or some field) has to decide what 'normal' is, and that doesn't sit well with me, not in todays day and age. Think of all the fat couch potatoes, smokers, and people that tick all the wrong boxes in how to look after themselves, are they affecting the 'normal' guidelines? And normal for who and what country, and lifestyle choices etc. I argued with my doctor that I already was ticking every box for being a 'good boy' yet still barely made it into 'normal' test levels, but he just didn't like the idea of TRT on a young man aged 36 despite the fact that I felt I really needed something to help with my work. There really isn't anything I can do to behave better in regards to natural test, going to the gym is supposed to increase natural testosterone anyway!! Diet is clean, I'm drunk off one beer (I didn't drink for a decade), and seldom have..
So... as per usual I took destiny into my own hands and tried to do an amateur hour TRT like thing lol. If I could of got my hands on a vial of sus250 I would perhaps taken 1ml/month of that etc, but I had to work on what I had at hand.
Even after the first 2 weeks of being on (dbol ) my test was higher and I felt physically better, but my test had not shot out of normal range, I'm sure plenty of Aussie men felt like this naturally without having to take, I surmised that this might just be how the better genetic types feel/exist lol.

And again I too had shoulder problems a few years back, and I moved away from free weights for awhile and focused on machines, cut back poundage's 50% or more and started doing basically super slow training. 5 sec negatives, 1 sec pause, 2-3secs back up. It's funny, I am one of the more muscular chaps in the gym, but I'm getting funny looks because my weights are relatively light compared to others. I guess tho once you have experienced the days of being strong and moving a lot of weight from A-B you can kinda drop the ego and not care what others think, who knows... perhaps they might start considering the journey of the rep more than simply the start and end points.

FYI I always cycled on the weekends too, I'm not sure where you got the idea of having weekends off, I didn't. It was 14 days on straight, 10 off (but it was 14 off to begin with, and I may actually alter that to being more time off than being on, to try and stifle adaptation, be it even small adaptation that occurs). I would be hesitant to stop on weekends, one of dbols primary roles is protein synthesis, those days off, eat more protien than usual and heal and recover, quite possibly you need it MORE on rest days than training days (seeing as yer naturally stimulating test anyway in the gym).
If i were you I would do the dry july thing, back off training, go 2-3x/week max to ensure you don't start overtraining, and then when you go on don't alter anything, don't do more than you normally would, you want to see if this works for you or not, if you go changing too many variables because yer trying to take advantage of the dbol then I think that's a mistake. It might not be a mistake on 50mg/day of dbol, but we're talking 10mg here... it's hardly anything at all, doing more in the gym might defeat the very purpose of it, so I would be cautious here.

One thing I haven't mentioned is weight training specifics in relation to dbol. When I am on I train particularly hard those days, I'm trying to take advantage of any strength gains that I might be getting from dbol use, I wouldn't train long, brief workouts, but they would be intense, going to failure etc. Then when I come off I purposefully reduce training intensity, falling short 1-2 reps of failure etc, basically training hard but not insanely. I have had to do this 'cyclic' nature of training intensity anyway regardless of dbol intake, just to ensure no overtraining or sickness or injury creeps in. Perhaps yer the kind of person that can train all year round to failure and not get ill, but I can't, my constitution is my greatest enemy and I have to be clever about things, pushing the limits every now and then and preferably when I'm on.

So whilst I would not advocate training more or doing this or that differently, I would advise a 'coasting' type mentality when off (maintenance work) and a more hardcore approach to being on. I think the body and mind works well with this approach.

[zeusmarada]

@Bruce, thank you again for the input! I really appreciate you sharing your experience and your thoughts of what does work, what could work, etc. This really is awesome to know that there's some validity in using low dose dbol for AAS as a SUPPLEMENT TO GOOD DIET AND TRAINING. I'm curious to see how my body responds to it. If it works well, I will consider doing a traditional cycle that includes one injectable along with low dose oral with PCT to follow. Regardless, this first go around for me will be all "SUPPLEMENT GOOD TRAINING AND DIET."

Dude, you and I are indeed in a very similar place in life. Wife, kids, work, and we like to pump iron. We both will have a drink but aren't really drinkers, and we both eat a decent diet. Regardless of a "good lifestyle," the curse of low T seems to be our lot. As a result, cycling with low dose dbol would supplement my (our) goals very well indeed. I'm excited to try.

In regards to taking weekends off, that was the initial protocol outlined in the first post of this thread. 15mg a day, 5 days on, 2 days off, 10 weeks. The idea was to give the liver a break. I like that thought a lot. It's very conservative compared with the brash ways that some people will "use" AAS (or ABUSE as you've eloquently pointed out).

If you get a chance, reread that whole post. I've read it several times now. It makes A LOT OF SENSE for where I'm at. Especially the SUMMARY at the end of the initial post.

For me, I've simply modified the protocol to 10mg a day (since I have 10mg pills) for 8 weeks, since that fits into my work & travel plans for the late summer. Admittedly, I have a lot of traveling to do in the fall to see old mates (note my use of Aussie vernacular!) from college. I can go have pints and not worry about the double hit on my liver from dbol as well as stouts. Plus, I won't be in a place where I can utilize lifting hard for October & November, so it makes sense to be smart, take two months off, lift periodically, then to do the "two weeks on, two or three off" when the holidays hit.

As for training, I won't touch a straight bar anymore out of paranoia that my shoulders will injure again. Dumbbells only for chest pushes. As soon as something feels a bit strained, I drop the db and don't think twice about finishing my set. I just move to the next exercise. As a result, I've been able to keep pushing well these past several years. It has helped me avoid aggravating the old injuries (both shoulders have been injured at different times, so they both bark at me on occasion).

Your advice for using slower reps with lower weights is a great way to continue training in a manner that minimizes the "heavy strain" of pushing big numbers. I like it a lot. I've only experimented training that way in random workouts in the past, usually only for the last set of an exercise as a burn out, but it always kicked my butt when I did. I might experiment taking two or more weeks to train like that during the fall for all sets, each workout.

My hope is to indeed "train hard on days I use 10mg." I'm kind of tempted to NOT pop 10mg on days that I can't get to the gym. Literally, USE IT AS A SUPPLEMENT TO GOOD DIET ON TRAINING DAYS. I've read that dbol makes some users experience a "sense of well being." Apparently it's not euphoria, it's just a good feeling to be strong. I know that dianabol is NOT testosterone , but I'm hoping that it'll help me feel less mental fog, and I hope it gives me a little edge with some "iron lust." I feel like I would benefit greatly from training hard in the gym and building a bit more muscle. I'm fine with slow gains. 5kg of muscle in a year would be more muscle than I've built in the last three or four years combined. I'm not greedy. I'm just lethargic and lacking the fire to kick ass in all aspects of life. If low dose dbol can help with the fire in the gym, I hope that the extra energy from the muscle built will translate into more energy in the rest of my life. There's only one way to find out!

Like you, I'm also researching to see if anyone else has tried this with tbol, anavar , or perhaps Halostein (sp?) or any other oral in low doses as a sup to good diet and training. I know one of the advantages of dbol is that it has a 4 hour half life, so after 16 hours (bedtime) there's very, very little left in your system if you only use 10mg in the morning. As a result, the theory is that your body will still sense over night that it needs to make it's own testosterone since the dbol is more or less out of your system. Would other very low dose orals work in a similar manner if used in the morning before lifting? I guess it depends on their half life as well. It's something worth researching and/or pondering! For now, 10mg dbol is what I have, so dbol is what I'll use. Here's hoping indeed!

Bruce, thanks again for the support and information. I really appreciate it. This is an exciting chapter for me. I've been lethargic for far too long, and that just sucks considering I'm a pretty upbeat guy. Time to turn it around my brother. Diet, training, supplementation. I'll go from there. Thank you again for the support, indeed. Cheers!

[Juced_porkchop]

I stopped reading at: "the only other thing we can do is try to reduce aromatisation, usually with Nolvadex (tamoxifen ) or other anti-estrogens"

its does no such thing... and is not an AI...