My nuts hurt

**RC_0891** · 10-01-2003, 02:08 PM

I started my second cycle ever monday.

1-10 400mg cyp
1-10 400mg eq
8-13 50mg winny ED
proviron throughout
nolva throughout
PCT

Allready my balls are starting to ache a little. I have done one previous cycle, that being a deca only cycle (newbie mistake). MY balls ached throughout much of that cycle as well. Is this common? Or are my nuts dysfunctional?

Thanks bros...

RC

**WoodChuck** · 10-01-2003, 02:10 PM

steroid use should not make your nuts hurt.

is it one or both? think you might have a hernia?

woody

**NoLimits** · 10-01-2003, 02:13 PM

Could be the testicular atrophy that is occurring that is causing you discomfort.

**dizzle** · 10-01-2003, 02:13 PM

This happens to me the first couple weeks of a cycle. I think it's from them shutting down.

**D3m3nt3d** · 10-01-2003, 02:13 PM

I had pain in my testicles when using d-bol

**BDTR** · 10-01-2003, 02:14 PM

My nuts hurt when i first start a cycle.

***Pheedno*** · 10-01-2003, 02:16 PM

Never noticed a problem with myself, but it doesn't seem out of the ordinary considering the circumstances

**goldenear** · 10-01-2003, 02:37 PM

RC_0891, if you are, in fact, experiencing testicular atrophy, and you would like to get rid of that discomfort, starting dosing hcg at 500IU's 2x/wk (e.g., Sat & Sun) for the remainder of your cycle. Doing this will maintain testicular size and function making recovery that much easier.

**johnsomebody** · 10-01-2003, 05:08 PM

Amen to goldenear's suggestion. Mine really ached throughout my cycle and HCG as prescribed above really made them feel a lot better. After having done a few days of it mid-cycle, it kept them from getting shrinky again.

We may both have a mild underlying problem that should be checked by a doc, like torsion, that is made symptomatic when our nuts start to retract a little. I'm getting checked tomorrow. It's actually something that's bothered me off & on for years, some pain in my right one, and I think the gear just made it worse.

**toolman** · 10-01-2003, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by goldenear

RC_0891, if you are, in fact, experiencing testicular atrophy, and you would like to get rid of that discomfort, starting dosing hcg at 500IU's 2x/wk (e.g., Sat & Sun) for the remainder of your cycle. Doing this will maintain testicular size and function making recovery that much easier.

I had always thought you weren't supposed to run HCG more than 3 weeks

**Ntpadude** · 10-01-2003, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by bdtr

My nuts hurt when i first start a cycle.

SO this is normal when using some artificial testosterone increase? I ask because when I did a OTC 1-test cycle my nuts ached all thru it too but I did not notice any shrinkage. I guess I should expect more when my real cycle starts in the next week or so. I am trying to put some off-cycle time from 1-test before I do a real test/deca cycle. I notice the last 2 weeks being off-cycle from 1-test however the achyness is completely gone and I did my wife every which way possible more then once last night so.... too much information...

**RC_0891** · 10-01-2003, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by johnsomebody

Amen to goldenear's suggestion. Mine really ached throughout my cycle and HCG as prescribed above really made them feel a lot better. After having done a few days of it mid-cycle, it kept them from getting shrinky again.

We may both have a mild underlying problem that should be checked by a doc, like torsion, that is made symptomatic when our nuts start to retract a little. I'm getting checked tomorrow. It's actually something that's bothered me off & on for years, some pain in my right one, and I think the gear just made it worse.

Hmm that is interesting. When I was younger, I had a chronic testicle ache also... it was quite painful but I havent had that in years. This ache is not as severe. I would say it is uncomfortable.. maybe highly uncomfortable, but not painful. When I came off my first cycle, it went away and my testes swelled back up again nicely. I think I might check out HCG. I know that it is not actually 100% necissary, but I would much prefer my balls to not ache, and to be very honest, I like having a big ol nutsack. So, HCG should not be run for more than 3 weeks? I should do some research. Well it is good to know that I am not alone... I was worried there for a minute I was having major nut problems.

Ok... any more advice with the HCG? this is a 13 week cycle, PC T starts immediately after. Assuming I can get the HCG by week 4, what would you bros recommend? peace!

RC

**PurePower** · 10-01-2003, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by Ntpadude

SO this is normal when using some artificial testosterone increase? I ask because when I did a OTC 1-test cycle my nuts ached all thru it too but I did not notice any shrinkage. I guess I should expect more when my real cycle starts in the next week or so. I am trying to put some off-cycle time from 1-test before I do a real test/deca cycle. I notice the last 2 weeks being off-cycle from 1-test however the achyness is completely gone and I did my wife every which way possible more then once last night so.... too much information...

dude wtf are u talking about 1-test OTC
LOFL......

**RC_0891** · 10-01-2003, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by PurePower

dude wtf are u talking about 1-test OTC
LOFL......

possibly a pro hormone? like 1-ad? dunno... that stuff works somewhat I have tried it. Dunno my balls were fine tho

RC

**WoodChuck** · 10-02-2003, 03:58 AM

Originally Posted by RC_0891

Could be the testicular atrophy that is occurring that is causing you discomfort.

are you kidding me?!!!! where are you guys getting this crap from? flame away at me if you want but saying it's from testicular atrophy is the most asinine thing i've ever heard! come one guys... if you don't know something and are just guessing say so instead of saying something rediculous like it's fact.

hmmm... i think my triceps hurt because they shrank a little since i haven't worked them out in a while

woody

**n0_Genetics** · 10-02-2003, 05:35 AM

WC, chill bro, so what do you think is the reason behind the pain nuts?

RC, your avatar remins me of dizzles at first sight. his chick is hotter though

**D3m3nt3d** · 10-02-2003, 06:20 AM

i think its Dizzle everytime I see his AV too

**jersey juice** · 10-02-2003, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by WoodChuck

are you kidding me?!!!! where are you guys getting this crap from? flame away at me if you want but saying it's from testicular atrophy is the most asinine thing i've ever heard! come one guys... if you don't know something and are just guessing say so instead of saying something rediculous like it's fact.

hmmm... i think my triceps hurt because they shrank a little since i haven't worked them out in a while

woody

Bro, being monitored by a doctor and being placed on Hormone Replacement Therapy I can say 100% that this is why your nuts hurt. It IS testicular atrophy which is the reason HCG and clomid are used. My doc told me also that instead of using HCG throughout your cycle use 1 clomid eod, you don't want to abuse HCG because it wil desensitize your body to LH which you DON'T WANT. LH is what sends the signal for your body to start producing testosterone . When you use synthetic test or any AAS for that matter your pituitary gland receives the signal that there is too much test in the body and stops producing it's own. This is why your nuts atrophy, they simply have no function at that point. Don't take this as a flame, just a little education on how your body works and I'm not pulling this outta my ass, like I said I have a doc that monitors me and lets me know what's what as far as the endochrine system works....

**goldenear** · 10-02-2003, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by toolman

I had always thought you weren't supposed to run HCG more than 3 weeks

That's not true bro! Just take a look at the prescribing info for Pregnyl on Organon's website. They actually recommend some very aggressive dosing strategies to reverse hypogonadism, azoospermia, and oligospermia. The desensitization issue has been overplayed way too much. Also, slamming your balls with 5000IU's of hcg at a time is a lot different than using 500IU's 2x/weekly. I know that HRT doc's are prescribing intermittent hcg usage for their patients. SWALE is one of them, and the feedback from his patients has been tremendous.

WoodChuck, sorry man, but you really displayed your level of ignorance with that post.

**jersey juice** · 10-02-2003, 09:19 AM

Agreed, but you also have to take into consideration that the patients treated with HCG have a lot more wrong with them then their system just being temporarily shut down due to AAS use. Hypothetically you don't really need to use anything post cycle and your natural test levels will rebound, granted you will more than likely lose everything and it will take a lot longer, but from a medical standpoint your body will eventually rebound to it's normal function. HCG is a very powerful drug as is all AAS and not to just be taken lightly or carelessly.

**RC_0891** · 10-02-2003, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by n0_Genetics

WC, chill bro, so what do you think is the reason behind the pain nuts?

RC, your avatar remins me of dizzles at first sight. his chick is hotter though

LOL... Dizzles avatar is nice... but what it comes down to... would you rather stick it in A beautiful actress like Audrey Tautou, or an anime girl? I guess thats a moot point...

The pain might not be caused by the testes SHRINKING per se, but the actual stop of test production. I dunno... it just makes sense. So more opinions... clomid or HCG ?

RC

**johnsomebody** · 10-02-2003, 12:40 PM

Well, from the research I did on HCG 500iu/day for 2day/week is not considered heavy duty or I wouldn't have done it myself. There's a ton of info out there about it, so you should do the research til you're sure you're satisfied as to whether it's safe or not.

Here's a good all-viewpoints article on HCG...

http://www.rippedcanadians.ca/articles/hcg.html

Anabolics 2000 says "The usual protocal is to inject 1500-3000 iu every (4th-5th) day for a duration usually no longer than 2-3 weeks . If used for to long or at too high of a dose the drug may actually function to desensitize the Leydig's cells to Lutenizing Hormone , futher hindering a return to homeostasis!" This may be where the 3 week limit comes from but this is referring to PCT pre-Clomid. That seemed like a TON to me, which is why I preferred the once week thing. Besides, like I said, it helped prevent the shrinkage AND the pain to do it that way, rather than holding off til the end.

I'd like to learn more about whether the 2days/week thing is excessive or not though, so if anybody's got info that that's not good please post it!!

**RC_0891** · 10-02-2003, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by johnsomebody

Well, from the research I did on HCG 500iu/day for 2day/week is not considered heavy duty or I wouldn't have done it myself. There's a ton of info out there about it, so you should do the research til you're sure you're satisfied as to whether it's safe or not.

Here's a good all-viewpoints article on HCG...

http://www.rippedcanadians.ca/articles/hcg.html

Anabolics 2000 says "The usual protocal is to inject 1500-3000 iu every (4th-5th) day for a duration usually no longer than 2-3 weeks . If used for to long or at too high of a dose the drug may actually function to desensitize the Leydig's cells to Lutenizing Hormone , futher hindering a return to homeostasis!" This may be where the 3 week limit comes from but this is referring to PCT pre-Clomid. That seemed like a TON to me, which is why I preferred the once week thing. Besides, like I said, it helped prevent the shrinkage AND the pain to do it that way, rather than holding off til the end.

I'd like to learn more about whether the 2days/week thing is excessive or not though, so if anybody's got info that that's not good please post it!!

John... thanks for the article! It has nearly convinced me that HCG will be a helpfull agent in my cycle. If anyone has any negative feedback(pun not intended) on this lemme know.... thanks bros

RC

**johnsomebody** · 10-02-2003, 04:19 PM

Hey, I just got back from my doc and he says I actually have a mild hernia on my right side, which could explain why my right testicle was sore so much. It may have been the reason it ached so much during the cycle -or at least it's an interesting coincidence. I'm wondering if the fact that they receded before I used the HCG aggravated the pain from the hernia. He said it wasn't bad enough to worry about.

The only "cure", according to my doc, is to avoid straining yourself in any way -i.e. no lifting weights.

Oh, RIGHT.

**WoodChuck** · 10-02-2003, 08:03 PM

hmmm..

someone post a link about testicular atrophy causing pain. now i'm really curious because i know a lot about the human body and have NEVER heard of this before!

thanks!
woody

**Doughboyx64** · 10-02-2003, 08:10 PM

testicular atrophy i here this all the time but what is it exactly....and i havent done a cycle yet...but i herd from some ppl that your nuts shrink its normal but they come back at the end of the cycle is this true?

**n0_Genetics** · 10-02-2003, 08:54 PM

i'd always preferred anime charecters to actresses as i'm suffering from this ipreferpinknipplesonperkytitstouglybrownnipplesons aggytits diesease... subtitles part never came across my mind though

RC, clomid and HCG works differently and supposed to be dosed at different periods of your cycle ... guessed you meant something else?

**King Test** · 10-02-2003, 09:25 PM

My nuts ache sporadically throughout a cycle. They ache because they are getting shut down. Period.

**BDTR** · 10-02-2003, 09:29 PM

Not to hijack... but king test has the greatest signature of all time.

**RC_0891** · 10-03-2003, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by n0_Genetics

i'd always preferred anime charecters to actresses as i'm suffering from this ipreferpinknipplesonperkytitstouglybrownnipplesons aggytits diesease... subtitles part never came across my mind though

RC, clomid and HCG works differently and supposed to be dosed at different periods of your cycle ... guessed you meant something else?

Yes they work differently, a previous post mentioned that clomid might have a similar effect. I have read in the past that clomid works differently from nolva, in that it actually signals the body to begin increasing nat test production. I do not recall the reasoning behind this (perhaps signaling the body to release LH) but I do know that this is the reason clomid PCT would be preferred over(or in addition to) PCT. I am pretty sure I will be getting some HCG soon however. My plan is to take 1000 IU every other week or so, just to keep the boys working throughout my cycle. three weeks before PCT I will increase this amount to perhaps 5000 IU a week, to really jolt the testes so that they are in shape to begin producing test more quickly. The article I read earlier mentions the fact that VERY soon after discontinuing a cycle your body increases the production of LH rapidly. The reason your nat test production stays down so long post cycle is that your testes are not "in shape" so cannot produce a sufficient amount of test. Theoretically, if prior to PCT your testes are used to producing test your test level will rise far more rapidly than if you had not used the HCG to maintain/increase testicle size. Thus the benefit from HCG.

So.... any critiques on my HCG plan? I am rather new to it, so any info would be helpful. peace bros

RC

**goldenear** · 10-03-2003, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by RC_0891

three weeks before PCT I will increase this amount to perhaps 5000 IU a week, to really jolt the testes so that they are in shape to begin producing test more quickly.

Bro, no need for this. Run it straight...it will work! Regarding clomid vs. nolvadex ...they are both SERM's (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators). Both meds are anti-estrogens but antagonize and agonize ER's in different tissues in the body. For example, it has been argued that clomid acts as an ER antogonist primarily in the hypothalamic area while nolvadex antogonizes ER's found in breast tissue. However, both SERM's also act as agonists, yielding various estro sides.

**johnsomebody** · 10-03-2003, 11:29 AM

Not a critique but from a few things I've read the 500iu/day 2days/week throughout the cycle thing will likely keep them at normal size you won't need a big amount at the end.

I'm leary of those large doses only because of what I've read about the possibility of permanent desensitization to LH, which seems scary to me. But I don't know what is and what isn't too much, and I know large amounts are used therapeutically. Rickson has a thread up about using HCG to restore sperm production a year after have been permanently shut down by using AAS, and they used large amounts.

**RC_0891** · 10-03-2003, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by johnsomebody

Not a critique but from a few things I've read the 500iu/day 2days/week throughout the cycle thing will likely keep them at normal size you won't need a big amount at the end.

I'm leary of those large doses only because of what I've read about the possibility of permanent desensitization to LH, which seems scary to me. But I don't know what is and what isn't too much, and I know large amounts are used therapeutically. Rickson has a thread up about using HCG to restore sperm production a year after have been permanently shut down by using AAS, and they used large amounts.

Good sense... I dont want to be desensitzed! if the low dosages keep the boys plump there would be no need for the large dose at the end. Sometimes I dont think clearly.. .thats why these boards are here though.... peace!

RC

**johnsomebody** · 10-03-2003, 04:54 PM

I didn't start using HCG until week 6 or so of my cycle, and after 9 days of 500iu/day they ended up BIGGER than before I started -there seems to be a day or more lag time from injection to size increase. They say to do 10 days but nine were plenty. (By the way, it's hard measuring those little guys with a cm ruler!) After that I did a couple days every week or so.

People say Sat & Sunday but I've read that you get a test spike from HCG beginning a couple hours after injection, so I did it a couple hours before working out.