Is AS a losing battle in the longterm?

**NJou812** · 11-06-2003, 12:09 AM

My first cycle is coming to a close soon, and I'm very happy to be up almost 30lbs. I'm hoping I can keep 20 - 22lbs of it with good PCT of Clomid(300/100/50), nolva, and some clen .

Here's my question:
I'm going to try to be one of the few people who only cycles AS once. However, I have low test levels and I'm wondering if that will force all my gains to disappear in the long run (assuming my diet and training are good). Will I have to cycle again just to keep the realized gains in the long run? Just curious if I'll eventually lose everything I have put on unless I get back on the juice in a couple of years.

To net it out, are AS gains keepable in the long run (apart from the inital loss immediately after a cycle and PCT).

Thoughts?

***asymmetrical1*** · 11-06-2003, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by NJou812

My first cycle is coming to a close soon, and I'm very happy to be up almost 30lbs. I'm hoping I can keep 20 - 22lbs of it with good PCT of Clomid(300/100/50), nolva, and some clen .

Here's my question:
I'm going to try to be one of the few people who only cycles AS once. However, I have low test levels and I'm wondering if that will force all my gains to disappear in the long run (assuming my diet and training are good). Will I have to cycle again just to keep the realized gains in the long run? Just curious if I'll eventually lose everything I have put on unless I get back on the juice in a couple of years.

To net it out, are AS gains keepable in the long run (apart from the inital loss immediately after a cycle and PCT).

Thoughts?

Natural low test levels will not help you here, what you can do is: proper pct down to the the t. After pct, go to the doctor and have bloodwork done and ask him about your low test levels.

**Nailer** · 11-06-2003, 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by asymmetrical1

Natural low test levels will not help you here, what you can do is: proper pct down to the the t. After pct, go to the doctor and have bloodwork done and ask him about your low test levels.

HRT Shots fun fun

**johnsomebody** · 11-06-2003, 12:45 AM

Good question -how long does one normally keep the gains? I've lost about 6 of the 18lbs I gained on my EQ and bogus test cycle that ended 3 months ago. The thing I find amazing is almost all my lifts are still up where they left off. I expected to lose some of the weight but also assumed I'd lose some of the strength but so far it hasn't happened. (I'd have rather kept the size and lost the strength myself.)

**johnsomebody** · 11-06-2003, 12:45 AM

By the way, congratulations on the great gains!! 30lbs is excellent.

**Nailer** · 11-06-2003, 01:41 AM

bump

**Nixter** · 11-06-2003, 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by johnsomebody

Good question -how long does one normally keep the gains? I've lost about 6 of the 18lbs I gained on my EQ and bogus test cycle that ended 3 months ago. The thing I find amazing is almost all my lifts are still up where they left off. I expected to lose some of the weight but also assumed I'd lose some of the strength but so far it hasn't happened. (I'd have rather kept the size and lost the strength myself.)

Exactly the same thing happened to me! Except I did Eq/Winny. I haven't lost any strength, in fact I've gained a fair bit since I've been on PCT. I gained 18-20 lbs and I've lost about 5lbs. I'm definately not eating like I was while on as I have a runway gig coming up. Most of the loss has been water and fat anyways.

Nixter.

**BUYLONGTERM** · 11-06-2003, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by Nailer

HRT Shots fun fun

ohhh they sure are!!!!

**gunner27** · 11-06-2003, 11:13 AM

To net it out, are AS gains keepable in the long run (apart from the inital loss immediately after a cycle and PCT).

Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

I've only done one cycle so far: 300 mg deca for 10 weeks w/ 20 mg of dbol daily the first 4 weeks. I gained about 20 lbs and a decent amount of strength. I did proper PCT and watched my diet, and over a year later I still have 15 lbs and most of the strength.

I think a lot depends on how much you gain--bigger gains are harder to keep. Also, some people I know have slacked off with either their diet (particularly protein intake) or training.

I am also debating whether or not I want to do another cycle.

**cb25** · 11-06-2003, 11:22 AM

I would say that, at least initially, the majority of gains are retainable if the cycle/post-cycle/and diet is done right.

Once you start doing more cycles and gaining more weight...you start approaching this area where it's much, much harder to keep gains. Ask bdtr why he continues to cycle...i would think that at his size (near 270, if i remember correctly) and his cycle experience, you get limited gains at the lower doses and it becomes near impossible to stay at the same size forever...

for most people, i'd say gains from the first couple cycles are retainable...after that, it depends on your diet/training/body chemistry...but you may start getting diminished returns...

**johnsomebody** · 11-06-2003, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by cb25

I would say that, at least initially, the majority of gains are retainable if the cycle/post-cycle/and diet is done right.

Once you start doing more cycles and gaining more weight...you start approaching this area where it's much, much harder to keep gains. Ask bdtr why he continues to cycle...i would think that at his size (near 270, if i remember correctly) and his cycle experience, you get limited gains at the lower doses and it becomes near impossible to stay at the same size forever...

for most people, i'd say gains from the first couple cycles are retainable...after that, it depends on your diet/training/body chemistry...but you may start getting diminished returns...

Excellent response -make sense to me!

**NJou812** · 11-06-2003, 09:37 PM

Thx guys - some great information.

Anyone else have any thoughts on keeps AS in teh long term - love to hear BDTRs thoughts on this.

**markas214** · 11-06-2003, 10:36 PM

I have found that the muscle I gained from 3 cycles over 12 years is still with me even after a 7 year layoff. Basically what I was able to maintain after 6 months off cycle was what became permanent. I trained without AAS for a few years in between each small cycle and while my strength would go down considerably the lean mass I gained seemed to stay. If you gain 30 lbs in a cycle I would bet only 10lbs, if that, is truly lean mass and keepable long term. Start eating like shit, drinking a lot of booze and become sedentary you will likely lose everything. But, Even in that case if you get back into training you can regain your losses within 6 months.

**Methuselah** · 11-06-2003, 10:47 PM

And then there's that thing call muscle memory. It's easy to get back to where you were with diet and training. I got an injury and went off cycle for a year. I had to stop training and kind of said fuck everything. I started training again, picked the diet back up and put on some lean ripped mass. I have the definition that I wanted back in the prime. So, I have a new inspiration. Bottom line is you get out of it what you put into it. You can keep most of your gains if you work hard.

**shadow123** · 11-07-2003, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by NJou812

My first cycle is coming to a close soon, and I'm very happy to be up almost 30lbs. I'm hoping I can keep 20 - 22lbs of it with good PCT of Clomid(300/100/50), nolva, and some clen .

Here's my question:
I'm going to try to be one of the few people who only cycles AS once. However, I have low test levels and I'm wondering if that will force all my gains to disappear in the long run (assuming my diet and training are good). Will I have to cycle again just to keep the realized gains in the long run? Just curious if I'll eventually lose everything I have put on unless I get back on the juice in a couple of years.

To net it out, are AS gains keepable in the long run (apart from the inital loss immediately after a cycle and PCT).

Thoughts?

yeah right i dont think so u go to the doctors and say that, he will not doa lot he will say so what u should not take roids and that u are a healthy person anyway.. and may put this on record...
why would he take blood tests and start injecting u with test. dont think so unless u have cancer or aids

best roids to keep gains are test prop and ones that dont put to much water weight on u.

**realityarts** · 11-07-2003, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by johnsomebody

Good question -how long does one normally keep the gains? I've lost about 6 of the 18lbs I gained on my EQ and bogus test cycle that ended 3 months ago. The thing I find amazing is almost all my lifts are still up where they left off. I expected to lose some of the weight but also assumed I'd lose some of the strength but so far it hasn't happened. (I'd have rather kept the size and lost the strength myself.)

JS,

Cool - yep, if you can lift the same, then you've kept the muscle.

RA

**ichabodcrane** · 11-09-2003, 03:38 PM

I think alot of it has to do with how close or far off you are from your true natural limit. You can be a ways from your natural limit and by cycling, come closer to that limit-faster than w/o using AAS. I think you would be able to maintain these gains somewhat easier. But if you are already well past your natural limit, and most people are into heavy cycling at this point, it is harder to maintain gains. This is why you need to keep using AAS to maintain, even gain additional mass.
So IMO, depending on how close you are to your natural limit will determine how well you keep your gains. If say you weighed 180lbs, and your natural limit was 200 (these are just arbitrary numbers), then you did a cycle and went up to 195lbs. I think you would be able to maintain these gains easier. But if you were to continue cycling, and shoot up to 240 lbs, you would find it harder to keep gains at this stage w/o using AAS. Now, you would find that you probably need to continue using AAS (or at least some other strongly anabolic compound like hGH, insulin , IGF's etc.) to stay at 240lbs. And the futile cycling begins.....Just my opinion!!