cycle advice

[sp33dg33k]

okay i have decided on my second cycle and this is what i have come up with so far.

Weeks 1 - 6
DBOL 25mgs a day

Weeks 1 - 10
600mgs sustanon a week (300mgs twice a week)
200mgs equpoise a week (100mgs twice a week)

Week 14
50mgs clomid a day

Week 15
100mgs clomid a day

Week 16
50mgs clomid a day

(Will have nolvadex on hand incase of gyno)
(Will also take milk thistle)

Couple of questions

- will the 200mg a week eq dosage be sufficient ( i can't get anymore so should i keep it till my next cycle when i can or what i was hoping was that it might help out the cycle at that low dosage somewhat and at the same time take off the sting of the sus shots by mixing the two.)

- should i use arimidex during my cycle to take the proactive approach to estrogen levels if i can get it and if so looking at my cycle above what dosages/frequencys should i take it?

- how much milk thistle should i use to protect the old liver and will i need to continue taking it after the dbol is finished and if so for how long?

thx in advance,

sp33dg33k

[ultragainz]

at least 300mgs of eq a week...and start the cloimd high then go low

[BigPete]

Is EQ a water base or oil base?

[ultragainz]

oil....bro do some research...you will get it then...its oil bro good stuff

[CYCLEON]

guess what ultra? you are their research - no deep search function here to rely on! u gotta work for a living round here - tell em where to go, most are pretty new to this.

[CYCLEON]

save your EQ - 200mg isnt going to do the job and uve got enough test - or kick it up to 300 and run it the first 6.5 weeks with the dbol .

[Mike]

IMO thats not really an excuse - this isnt anabolics 101 - this isnt a class - you should come prepared - ask to see if you understand what you have researched - research whats up and when you think you can grasp it in part then come by the board and get some input - sorry i was just thinking of a post I was reading today of a guy asking - "Hey I am new to steroids and having been lifting for a while. I want to get big fast with low side effects - what kind of steroids are out there?" That's absurd....

[CYCLEON]

"Hey I am new to steroids and having been lifting for a while. I want to get big fast with low side effects - what kind of steroids are out there?" That's absurd....

Yeah, I just love posts like "Im 20yo and 165lbs. I wanna gain 40lbs in the next 3 weeks. What do I do?"

when it all boils down to it - its your ass so better know what you are doing before u put something in it!

[Mike]

Exactly - theres some good bros on here that are looking out for ya but personally I dont care who is giving me the advice I will research the hell out of everything I do as well - I mean you're playing doctor here - that's serious - you're literally practicing medicine.

Seriously cycleon - we've had guys on here as low as 136lbs - i remember this one guy - as another tip...for your own growth potential - PLEASE take yourself to your limits first - THEN think of juicy alternatives!

[sp33dg33k]

Originally posted by Mike
IMO thats not really an excuse - this isnt anabolics 101 - this isnt a class - you should come prepared - ask to see if you understand what you have researched - research whats up and when you think you can grasp it in part then come by the board and get some input - sorry i was just thinking of a post I was reading today of a guy asking - "Hey I am new to steroids and having been lifting for a while. I want to get big fast with low side effects - what kind of steroids are out there?" That's absurd....

are u talking about my post mike? excuse for what... i have been researching now for almost a year... thought my cycle was pretty good, am i that far off??

[pureanger]

Yea Im putting my first cycle together im wondering if I stack 200mg of androl with 60 mg of dbal a day for 8 weeks is that alright by the way im 16yrs old and weight 125 and im 6 ft 1" tall
are those AS safe?

[Big Al]

Speed, he's wasn't talking about you, you've done well imo. Up the eq as advised and strart the Clomid earlier. Are you under 20? maybe that was the problem.

Looks like you done your reseach, be safe.

BA

[choice]

Is this your first cycle? If not, I would up your dbol a little bit and cut it down to 5 weeks, like
week 1: 25mg ED
week 2, 3, 4: 40mg ED
week 5: 25mg ED

Although I wouldn't recommend that for a first timer, find your disposition to estrogen and then play with your dbol dosage

[Mike]

No that wasnt for you bro - no worries

[pureanger]

Dont take Arimidex unless you have signs of gyno try to get people to answer your questions instead of going off in the wrong direction

[sp33dg33k]

before i start my birrage of questions i just want to thank everyone who has responded. much appreciated!

ultragainz: do u suggest i do the clomid 100/50/50?

cycleon: will i get something out of 300mgs eq for 6.5 weeks along side the dbol ?

big al: u said to start the clomid earlier but what week do u suggest?

choice: this is my second cycle and my first ever with dbol. do u think i should try your suggestion and "test the waters" to see how my body reacts or stick to the 25mgs straight through?

pureanger: u said to not take arimidex unless i see signs of gyno, so then would i use it in replace of nolvadex or along side it and at what dosage?

thx again to everyone for all your help,

sp33dg33k

[pureanger]

Clomid 50 100 50
up your eq mgs per week between 400-600mgs is good
dont taper you dbal a straight 40 per day is fine
you sust intake 600mg is fine dont even worry about arimidex or nolvedex only if your experienceing pain or your nipples are itchy

[CYCLEON]

arimdex is not only for gyno but it will keep a lot of the useless water weight off of you. nolva is worthless IMO unless u can t get arimdex.

I can see we need to put up IGs clomid post - no one has any idea ho to use it. Just remember to wait for three weeks after last sust/EQ injection and hit that first day with 300mg or so then 150mg per week and scale down.

No need for that much juice on your second cycle - yes the 300mg EQ will give you some extra kick so start it same time as sust. surely dont go over 600mg with the sust, ur just wasting it.

Dbol - take 25mg ED W1-6 is perfect, no need to up it - the extra EQ will be more than u need. above all, eat like a horse and GROW!

[supersquater]

sp33...matey up your dbol to 40mg a day with no taper and save your EQ....! Take your clomid as pureanger said 50/100/50 10days to 2 weeks after last test shot.....milk thistle take 2 tabs a day..one in the morning and one at night before zzzzzz's! As someone said save your armidex for when you need it....

Why dont you try and get some winny for the end of your cycle to help solidify your gains? Just a thought!

SS.

P.S get A Dog Up Ya!

[CYCLEON]

Take your clomid as pureanger said 50/100/50 10days to 2 weeks after last test shot

NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

supersquater - I appreciate your helpful suggestion but please explain to me what your reasoning behind this line of clomid use is? particularly with teh length of the esters and the scaling up period of clomid use - feel free to point to supporting studies and documentary evidence.

Also - have u ever used arimdex? that is one of the best way to "solidify" gains that i know, since u dont "gain" water that will later be lost.

the milk thistle ill agree with but add one more cap perhaps

the upping the dbol to 40mg ed for 4weeks isnt too bad either - leave the eq in IMO but only if you are stretching the dbol

[pureanger]

Clomid what?
two weeks after last shot for the first 7 days you take 50mg every day the second week 100 mg everyother day and the third week 50 everyday

[CYCLEON]

Originally posted by pureanger
Clomid what?
two weeks after last shot for the first 7 days you take 50mg every day the second week 100 mg everyother day and the third week 50 everyday

That may be the way YOU do it but surely isnt the way that its supposed to be done. Can you provide your reasonings for such a program as u have suggested? I would enjoy seeing them

[Big Al]

OK OK!

Lets deal with shall we? I have personnally seen clomid being advised in two separate methods by what I would consider knowledgeable "bro's"

1. 50/100/50

2. 300mg Day 1, next 10 days 100mg, next ten days 50mg.

I don't no know which is best, my gut sways me to the second, as i am satuarating by body with clomid on the first day and I have researched that clomid take upto 14 days to "kick in", therefore the high dose to start with is more affective.

On the first method I am using my common sense but as the AAS leave the body self tapering you require smaller amount of clomid for the first week, uping in the second as the ASS leaves the body and then lower dosage in the third as little or no AAS remain.

Cycleon, you seem to have a strong belief in the second method and not the first, your not getting the answer you want, can you PLEASE give your knowledge, as I for one am nearing the end of my present cycle and would like to know more.

Thanks!

BA

[The Iron Game]

Big Al, unless I read wrong and am a fool, Cycleon was for the 2nd option you selected

[CYCLEON]

Originally posted by The Iron Game
Big Al, unless I read wrong and am a fool, Cycleon was for the 2nd option you selected

IG - as usual, you are neither!

your correct Al as to the reason for the large start dose so as to saturate the receptors. Clomid works by acting as a fake estrogen. Your body has shut down its test production during your cycle as it sensed an overabundance. What Clomid does is to get the body thinking it has too little test so that it starts producing again (this is all in laymans terms, u understand). that is also why higher doses are needed in the first few weeks that taper off as you go. Clomid has a very short half life so it is not in that sense, self tapering.

While the 10 days @ 100 and 10 days @50 is also good, I prefer 1 week @150mg, 1 @100 and 1 @50 but thats my preference. But the higher your AS doses were (or using deca /tren ) the more likely you are to need the higher clomid dose as well.

[Big Al]

Ok IG edited my post, got carried away.

So Cycleon, I'm right in my thinking as to why the second method is prefered. So why is the first recommend by so many, if you go on the old board your see 50/100/50 being handed out by top bro's. Is it old hat or just simple for newbie's.

Common sense has lead me to choose, 300mg, etc as posted in second method, I can see the benefits and as you said Clomid has a short-half life so we need a high dosage to hit receptors.

So my gut is helping me, but could you through some ligt as why 50/100/50 is recommend and does it have a use?

Thanks BA

[CYCLEON]

well there are a number of reasons that that method is no longer used

1. the primary one is that the science of BB, like medicine, keeps growing and what was though to be good last year, we have improved upon this year, etc. For example - optimal dose, usage and diet for DNP (dinitrophenol) has changed very often over the last year to where it is now (the new DNP crystal has added to the mix). And what was once thought the best method is now no longer. Thats progress.

2. urban legends - newbies who dont know quite what they are talking about see some info posted by someone else and say "this is the best way' - even tho that info may be 5 years old or wasnt sound when it was stated or misquoted or etc.

3. very few people really know why what they are saying works.

[Big Al]

Make sense, with time experience adds knowledge. I personnally have made my choice on Clomid, based on what I believe to be common sense. Sense which I didn't have when first researching or being advised.

I agree with your points, one key thing is that the individual as to 1.) learn to evaluate what works for them and 2.) be able to justify others advice and 3.) Make a decison which has been based on them evaluating all the factors and not relying on others too much, as you said many people are caught in a trap of doing something but not knowing why.


Thanks for the advise, I'm off for some steak and some horrid green stuff that some guy told me was good for me LOL




BA

[Nathan]

Clomid therapy should look like:
300mg day 1
100mg days 2-11
50mg days 12-21

Up the eq as well. Maybe 400mg every week.