Yoshinkan Aikido

[CSAR]

Hey guys, been training in Yoshinkan Aikido and kali for a bit over 15 years. Graduated from the year-long Yoshinkan Tokyo Riot Police/International Instructors course a while back and have my instructors license. For me, being able to train with the masters in Japan is like learning how to play basketball from Jordan, Bird, Johnson, etc.

Been living in Japan for a while, so I'm out of touch with how people fight these days in the States or UK. Aikido seems to work very well over here, as Japanese aren't quick to throw a punch or use a weapon. Usually they grab a handful of shirt and try talking like a yakuza or puff out their chests and bump each other. My English bud from Sunderland talks about Glasgow smiles and other assorted shenanigans and it seems like you never know who's gonna pull a knife or gun in the States these days. I don't care to discuss whether a particular martial art is better than another or who would win in a street fight. All martial arts have their strengths and weaknesses and anyone who knows fighting understands that on any given day anyone can be beat.

Anyhow, if you're interested in aikido or want to discuss techniques, then drop a post. If you have a question about the Riot Police/International Instructors course, I'd be happy to discuss it with you. There's a book called Angry White Pyjamas by Robert Twigger. Although he's complete crap as an aikidoka, he writes pretty well. I've trained with just about everyone he mentions in his book, although I disagree with his assessments of various instructors.

Sorry for the long-winded post. I'm a linguist and we tend to ramble on...

[sonar1234]

In my search to get back into martial arts and been disconected for so damn long (12 Years) i pertty much search everything available where i live.

Aikido looks to be pertty cool but is way to expensive for me, a year is 850$ while kyokushin karate is 300$

[CSAR]

Yeah, it can be pretty expensive. Before I became an instructor, I was paying 15,000 yen (about $150) per month, but I always rationalized that I was learning from the best. I think aikido tends to be less popular than other martial arts, especially karate, because of the wow factor and IMO pain involved. The worst thing for an aikidoka is to lose contact with the ground, so we don't kick - not a lot of wow. Whereas when you watch karate, there's a lot of kicking and punching which not only looks cool, but also looks more like "fighting" than aikido. Additionally, the pain involved with learning aikido and taking uke is pretty high. Of course, karate and other martial arts involve pain as well, but in my experience aikido is especially painful.

BTW, where is St. Eustache in Canada?
I understand that in Kyokushin, there are some insane tests, like 100 opponents in a row, 300 opponents in a row, etc. Have you done anything like this yet?

[sonar1234]

BTW, where is St. Eustache in Canada?
I understand that in Kyokushin, there are some insane tests, like 100 opponents in a row, 300 opponents in a row, etc. Have you done anything like this yet?[/QUOTE]

LOL no its not that bad, i got involved in martial arts at 13 doing shotokan karate which sucked, we never kicked higher then the waste line and nothing flashy about this, the school closed and moved way to far so i went to another school, i tought that karate was karate but hell was i wrong.

I was 5 feet 10 at that time and 142 pounds, i train in kyokushin for a year and a half and with all the insane training has you say (its not the fights but the training) puch ups, bodyweight squats, even the forms are hard cause the seisei keeps you position (Kibadashi horse stance position) for sometimes 5-10 minuts.

Say you are 50 students in the class, seisei will make every student count to 10 in japanese and you do jumping jacks, sit ups, squats after the end of the 50 student, he start all over again.

Sometimes kyokushin can be flashy, sometimes you learn great self defense, the sparring is full contact, leg kicks are allowed, knee (But you cannot grab), and you are not fully protected has tae kwon do.

Kyukushin is a very young karate Mas Oyama founded it in the 1950, and it is the toughest thing around.

I left kyokushin cause my high school friends started a tae kwon do school, i started orange belt since i had already done martial arts (Kyokushin has some flashy kicks has well and the teacher my friends had hired said i would be good has an orange belt), during sparring i got hit and felt nothing, even with the pads on and all that protected gear. I couldnt beleive how easy the training was compared to kyokushin, whats doing 20 push ups at the end of a class when in kyokushin you could do close to 100 on the knuckles.

St-Eustache is near Montreal, which in near Quebec, there is nothing crazy like fighting 50 guys or 100, there have been huge tournaments in Japan 100 man kumite but i dont think there is anything like this over here.

It takes 5 years to get your black belt, the exam is written (Japanese terms), you got 80 push up to do, i think 130 bodysquats and 115 or so sit ups.

You also have to fight 15 times and of course the forms.

I am 34 years old now and feel that i have the maturity to get back into martial arts, i have competed in tkd and shotokan karate, and now i wanna learn, leave my ego outside and be more mature this time around.

I also need to lose weight 30 pounds and need cardio bad, i injured my back 5 years ago and am still curing it.

So far its going good so in January i will surely get back into action.

[J.S.N.]

do you practice for asskicking purposes or more as a form of expression and self-betterment. i don't know alot about akido; alot of people diss it though as something relatively ineffective in real world situations.

[CSAR]

do you practice for asskicking purposes or more as a form of expression and self-betterment. i don't know alot about akido; alot of people diss it though as something relatively ineffective in real world situations.

Aw, man...you know I'm a wordy, verbose dickhead. I could type a shitload of stuff here, but I'll refrain and keep it as short as I can.

I definitely don't train to kick anyone's ass. It's more of a self-discovery and improvement tool for me.

As for aikido's effectiveness, I'm not sure outside of Japan. I say this because of the nature of Japanese males and the way they fight. Typically they like to bump chests and grab the front of your shirt while trying to talk tough. Aikido is very effective for this type of nonsense, especially in a crowded environment, such as on a train. I've had a few situations like this and I can say that aikido never let me down. I don't know whether or not it would work as well outside of Japan, but certain techniques are definitely more useful than others.

I will say that aikido demonstrations, which I've been a part of for many years, are choreographed which is why they look fake. I have heard other instructors talk about situations outside of Japan where aikido was used, but rarely.

[CSAR]

Sonar, thanks for the post. I enjoyed reading it. I've met a couple of kyokushin guys who both completed the hyaku nin kumite (100 man fight) and they were hard core. Reading your post reminded me of when I went through the senshusei course and had to do all the pushups, situps, squats, usagi tobi (bunny hops), etc. Not much different from a lot of the military training I went through, but I can't say I enjoyed it. I've been told about the 5 years to get a black belt in kyokushin before. Over here, shodan (1st degree black belt) in anything means "good beginner." I imagine kyokushin shodans are pretty damn "great beginners." Good luck with the training and rehabbing your back. I had back surgery myself several years ago and I can relate. Best wishes to you dude!

[sonar1234]

Sonar, thanks for the post. I enjoyed reading it. I've met a couple of kyokushin guys who both completed the hyaku nin kumite (100 man fight) and they were hard core. Reading your post reminded me of when I went through the senshusei course and had to do all the pushups, situps, squats, usagi tobi (bunny hops), etc. Not much different from a lot of the military training I went through, but I can't say I enjoyed it. I've been told about the 5 years to get a black belt in kyokushin before. Over here, shodan (1st degree black belt) in anything means "good beginner." I imagine kyokushin shodans are pretty damn "great beginners." Good luck with the training and rehabbing your back. I had back surgery myself several years ago and I can relate. Best wishes to you dude!

Thanks CSAR, no back surgery required i only need to find a good back doctor that wont screw me around.

Lots of martial arts go way to fast when it comes to giving away black belts, its more about money theses days then tradition, that pisses me off a lot, i spent 7 years practicing tae kwon do, i was a blue belt when i stopped, i met guys in competition that had been training for only 8 month and where already blue belt?

[goose]

Why does it take so long to be effective in this art?

Am I correct if a fight goes to the ground, aikido has no techniques for this.

How many forms of aikido are around?

[J.S.N.]

Aw, man...you know I'm a wordy, verbose dickhead. I could type a shitload of stuff here, but I'll refrain and keep it as short as I can.

I definitely don't train to kick anyone's ass. It's more of a self-discovery and improvement tool for me.

As for aikido's effectiveness, I'm not sure outside of Japan. I say this because of the nature of Japanese males and the way they fight. Typically they like to bump chests and grab the front of your shirt while trying to talk tough. Aikido is very effective for this type of nonsense, especially in a crowded environment, such as on a train. I've had a few situations like this and I can say that aikido never let me down. I don't know whether or not it would work as well outside of Japan, but certain techniques are definitely more useful than others.

I will say that aikido demonstrations, which I've been a part of for many years, are choreographed which is why they look fake. I have heard other instructors talk about situations outside of Japan where aikido was used, but rarely.

lolz truce? i'll read your posts, just as long as they're not about bbers. sounds pretty interesting- esp. the culture of confrontations.

[CSAR]

Why does it take so long to be effective in this art?

Am I correct if a fight goes to the ground, aikido has no techniques for this.

How many forms of aikido are around?

In Yoshinkan, there are:
-6 basic movements (tai no henko ichi & ni, hiriki no yosei ichi & ni, and shumatsa dosa ichi & ni),
-20 basic techniques (shiho nage ichi & ni, ikkajo ichi & ni, nikajo ichi & ni, sankajo ichi & ni, yonkajo ichi & ni, sokumen iriminage ichi & ni, shomen iriminage ichi & ni, hiji shime ichi & ni, kotegaeshi ichi & ni, and tenchi nage ichi & ni), and
-6 kokkyu ho (ichi through rokku).

The 20 basic techniques don't sound like very much, but when you start changing the point of attack (wrist, elbow, shoulder, chest, shomen strike, yokomen strike, straight punch, etc.) it gets to be quite complicated. For example, a shiho nage (4 direction throw) performed after being grabbed by the wrist will look totally different from a shiho nage performed after being attacked by a yokomen strike, even though the end result is the same. Throw in suwari waza (techniques from seiza or kneeling position), jyu waza (free style), tanto soho (knife techniques), katana soho (sword techniques), etc., etc., and the difficulty factor increases exponentially. Lastly, the techniques themselves are complicated, which is a drawback to using most aikido techniques in real world situations.

Yeah, aikido won't do you much good if someone tackles you and takes you to the ground. Most instructors study other martial arts to make up for aikido's deficiencies, namely karate, judo, ju jutsu, vale tudo, etc. I've been studying kali as well and it is truly one of the most brutal and downright nasty martial arts I've experienced. I haven't had the time, but I'd love to study BJJ as well.

Currently, there are two major styles of aikido. Aikikai, which is considered a gentle style of aikido as it reflects Morihei Ueshiba's post-WWII mindset. Steven Seagal is a 7th degree black belt and used to have (maybe still does) a dojo in Osaka, if memory serves correct. In his movies, he always does some form of shomen iriminage (looks like a clothesline) and kotegaeshi (outward wrist throw). He's infamous in Japan for beating his ukes. Yoshinkan, which is a hard style of aikido as it reflects Ueshiba's pre-WWII mindset and that of his best student and Yoshinkan founder, Gozo Shioda. The Tokyo Riot Police and SWAT send their officers through the Yoshinkan senshusei course. All of those guys already have either a sandan in one martial art (usually judo) or two shodans (usually judo and karate or kendo). I have heard of other styles, one of which was developed as a sport, but no one in Aikikai or Yoshinkan takes them seriously. I can't even remember their names.

Anyhow, sorry for the long post. I appreciate your questions and hope I was able to answer them.

[goose]

Thanks for the great post!!!

How did you fund yourself in Japan? Did you teach English?

How did you find a club that would take you in japan?

How did you deal with the language Barrier?

[CSAR]

Hey goose4!

Long story. I was a naval corpsman attached to a marine FAST/CSAR platoon in Bahrain and during a training exercise I completely ruptured one spinal disk and herniated another. For God only knows what reason, the navy sent me to Okinawa for surgery and then up to Yokosuka (near Yokohama) for physical therapy. Mr. Murphy reared his ugly head in Okinawa - I had to wait 2 months to have surgery because one of the two neurosurgeons at Kadena AFB decided to retire, so all his patients got dumped on the lone neuro doc.

Anyhow, after my medical board, I was given the choice of an honorable discharge with benefits or a desk job. I took the discharge and the VA rated me as 40% disabled. The VA then put me on vocational rehab, so I went back to college and got my M.A. and Ph.D. in applied linguistics. One of the other grad students was from Japan and we were having a fling on the side and she asked if I'd be interested in visiting her in Tokyo. I came over, moved in with her, interviewed at several universities and got a non-tenured position. Shortly after, I got eyes for other women and moved out.

I stumbled across the Yoshinkan Hombu Dojo (headquarters) by accident. Someone loaned me a book called "Angry White Pyjamas" by Robert Twigger, which is all about the Yoshinkan Riot Police/International Instructor course. I walked in the dojo and was surprised at the number of foreigners. Several of the Japanese instructors and uchi deshi (live in students) speak pretty good English, so I got signed up and trained 4 days a week before school for about a year, then I did the course. I had to get permission from my university and work my schedule around a bit. The Yoshinkan course runs for 11 months, 5 days a week, from 7 a.m. to 2 p.m. Most foreigners teach English at conversation schools, while the Japanese senshusei (not Riot Police) work at convenience stores, video stores, etc. The cops are at the dojo all day, but they get 2 1/2 hour breaks between their classes. Plus, they don't have to work - that's their only job for 9 months...get paid to train at aikido.

The language barrier isn't a problem at the dojo. You catch on to the commands very quickly and most instructors don't talk a lot. Sometimes when they demonstrate a technique or concept, someone usually translates. The foreign staff always teach in English, but they use Japanese as well. All commands, techniques, and ettiquette are in Japanese. After my first month of training, I was pretty comfortable with the Japanese used in the dojo. Outside in public was a different matter. After I graduated from the course, I took Japanese lessons during the winter and summer vacations. Survival Japanese is absolutely essential for anyone thinking of living in Japan, because English is rarely heard/spoken, especially when it comes to things like ordering food, shopping, renting a place, etc. Foreigners who come from outside the dojo to do the course have to have a sponsor, but foreigners already training at the dojo don't. Anyone can stop by the dojo and watch classes or join if they want. They are an incredible group of people.

Sorry man, that was a long friggin' post!! Always happy to answer questions though.

[jbarkley]

Aikido may not be as effective in fighting in the US but what an opportunity to be able to train in Japan. For very effective western fighting besides carrying a gun LOL i have found Emin Boztepe's Wing Tsun, I have trained in several systems in the last 30 years and at my age the high kicks don't come as easy as they once did.

[CSAR]

Aikido may not be as effective in fighting in the US but what an opportunity to be able to train in Japan.

Absolutely!! I equate it to learning basketball from Jordan, Bird, Johnson, Chamberlain, etc. There is such a difference between learning Japanese martial arts in the States vs. learning in Japan. It's a very interesting time in Japan as martial arts are decreasing very sharply in popularity. Japanese children/adolescents want to be soccer or baseball stars, not judoka or aikidoka. A lot of Japanese martial arts instructors are very aware that foreigners make better students than Japanese do. I've noticed that a lot of younger Japanese have a very laissez faire attitude in the dojo, whereas the young guy from the UK, US, Canada, OZ, NZ, etc., is extremely focused and disciplined. Obviously, I'm looking at this behavior in only a dojo context and I'm sure a host of factors goes into the phenomenon, but it is really interesting to observe.