Books

[Patches24]

I've seen a number of people over the years who are, in a sense, really into fighting, but who seem to believe you can learn it from books. There's one guy in particular who says MMA and fighting is his biggest interest. He has books by Ken Shamrock, Renzo Gracie, Bruce Lee, some karate guy and he reads them all. His actual training consists of a once-a-week muay thai class that has no sparring. There's also no punching/kicking bag. Just doing the moves, punching and kicking the air.

I'm convinced that reading how-to books about fighting is not very valuable in learning fighting. I believe you pretty much have to spar, and there are probably great fighters who've never read a book on the topic.

But, since we have some here who've done some fighting, I thought I'd ask this question here, just for my own curiosity.

Can any of you, who've done sparring/matches in some form of a fighting sport, give me an example of a book you read that helped you fight better?

[zimmy]

i read alot of bjj books ... look at moves i like and try them in sparring... BUT, w/o trying them on a regular basis ...i'd never get it...and w/o previous knowledge of bjj i woudlnt' know which moves are good and which are flash sh*t people like to publish in there books for some reason.

[Patches24]

i read alot of bjj books ... look at moves i like and try them in sparring... BUT, w/o trying them on a regular basis ...i'd never get it...and w/o previous knowledge of bjj i woudlnt' know which moves are good and which are flash sh*t people like to publish in there books for some reason.

Do you learn as much from them as you do from watching matches, or other people sparring?

[zimmy]

Do you learn as much from them as you do from watching matches, or other people sparring?

I learn more from them than watching matches

but NOTHING in comparison to sparring.

YOU can't get a good functional knowledge of bjj or mma just from books. Can't speak for other arts.

[Patches24]

I learn more from them than watching matches

Interesting I really am surprised that you learn this much from the books.

[zimmy]

Interesting I really am surprised that you learn this much from the books.

i think you got the point of that statement wrong. You do learn a little more from a good book than you do from a match.

If it's a bjj match online or something... there are so many little things...fundamentals that without previous knowledge you will totally miss.

In mma, it's a little more forgiving since their subs aren't that technical but you still miss out on alot of key points. And as far as the striking goes, well not so much you can learn from watching...

so i'm saying... atleast the books will go over the basics A LITTLE and you will have a little bit of an idea behind the set up for bjj and the sub part of mma.

I really don't think either on there own would really do any good.


p.s reading a frank shamrock book? Wow that's a waste

[Patches24]

i think you got the point of that statement wrong. You do learn a little more from a good book than you do from a match.

If it's a bjj match online or something... there are so many little things...fundamentals that without previous knowledge you will totally miss.

In mma, it's a little more forgiving since their subs aren't that technical but you still miss out on alot of key points. And as far as the striking goes, well not so much you can learn from watching...

so i'm saying... atleast the books will go over the basics A LITTLE and you will have a little bit of an idea behind the set up for bjj and the sub part of mma.

I really don't think either on there own would really do any good.


p.s reading a frank shamrock book? Wow that's a waste

Oh ok thanks for explaining.

[armbar83]

when i first started i bought a mark hatmaker submission book that i read and picked up the gist of submission grappling like terms and position names, ect. to help make learning in class easier because i already had that stuff down. it wasnt until a couple years later after rolling a while that i can read that book and actually picture the leverage points and how i would sink or escape the submission. like zimmy said, i dont think you can really learn from a book but it can suppliment...and without already knowing how to do it, reading it would be worthless. like reading a spanish book....

[armbar83]

the only thing i have read that really helped was a sports psychology article written specifically for mma. it talked about the mental aspects of the sport and how to prepare for competition and general insights that you wouldnt otherwise thought about. if you can get a hold of these kinds of books i would buy them. other things include training information, nutrition, ect. specifically for fighters.....

[rockinred]

When it comes to getting an edge, I believe you must train, read, spar, spar, practice, watch, read, shadow box, hit bags (how else would he increase striking power), read, etc... Taking in everything you can to get better, get it. some books are somewhat bogus others have a lot to learn from, I still take the perspective that I can learn from anything because I am open minded... reading is good, but on most things application of that theory is totally different. you can watch matches yet when you get in there, your reaction is totally different than the ones you watch... learn from yours and there mistakes...

As far as learning from books only, that is cool if you first start out on your own or if you are doing it for fun and for yourself... maybe you can pull something out of the bag in an emergency?? But, if he was to compete he would need way more than just that...

So don't bag on your boy to much, it really all ***ends on his intentions and goals with the books. If he is just monkeying around I think it is pretty cool for him to do that... He then has a respect for those things he reads and a common interest. Plain and simple

[zimmy]

HAHAHA....

what did you say? ###ends?

sick bastard

[Schwarzenegger]

It d e pends on what type of a learner u are. My cousin for instance, watches mma tapes and studies the moves and usually does good on em. But it once again comes down to practising the moves. Books and studying tapes can give u a good handle on the theory of the techniques, but once again practise is needed to perfect the move. A fundamental knowledge of grappling or striking (or wutever the book is about) is need to completely understand the concept and techniques. Sparring is a given, it comes with the territory and is a must for any contact sport, be it boxing, karate, kickboxing, mma, etc. You could shadowbox and practise moves on a dummy but a person may freeze in a fight situation when resistance is applied. THis is where sparring comes in, it allows you to become experienced in almost every situation.

P.S. hey armbar83, did u find that article on the net or in a book? if so what site or book was it? lol maybe ill be like pedro rizzo and see a sports psychologist hah.

[sonar1234]

Books can only teach you so much, they are images and not real motion.

I add a bunch of karate books and ninjitsu books back when it was very popular going back to 1983-1987, yeah all the moves where cool but when you get into a real competition, and sparring books dont serve you nothing.

I practiced TKD for 7 years and even after all that time i was still learning in combat.

All your friend is getting with that muay thai class is great cardio, i have a tone and a half of community school giving theses classes around here, karate, shorin ryu, kempo and more you never hit the bag or do light sparring.

Useless

[FRANk THe TANk]

I read BJJ books for about a year before I found a good place to train. I think they were invaluable if only that i knew what they were talking about, once i had some real instruction/sparring, the info i got from the books seemed to gel and make alot more sense. Alot of white belts were having trouble grasping the fundamentals because they had little understanding of the underlying concepts. At the very minimum a book can give you a good foundation of Bjj theory. Now that im further along in my training im always using books/dvds to try and gain a little extra.

[FRANk THe TANk]

Books can only teach you so much, they are images and not real motion.

I add a bunch of karate books and ninjitsu books back when it was very popular going back to 1983-1987, yeah all the moves where cool but when you get into a real competition, and sparring books dont serve you nothing.

I practiced TKD for 7 years and even after all that time i was still learning in combat.

All your friend is getting with that muay thai class is great cardio, i have a tone and a half of community school giving theses classes around here, karate, shorin ryu, kempo and more you never hit the bag or do light sparring.

Useless

Useless for competetive purposes, not everyone trains for these reasons however...

[FRANk THe TANk]

the only thing i have read that really helped was a sports psychology article written specifically for mma. it talked about the mental aspects of the sport and how to prepare for competition and general insights that you wouldnt otherwise thought about. if you can get a hold of these kinds of books i would buy them. other things include training information, nutrition, ect. specifically for fighters.....

just curious armbar, what was the article, do you have a link?

[Patches24]

Mmmmm thanks for all the responses in this thread. Since I read through the answers on this thread I kinda changed my mind a little bit. I purchased two books, they are

Boxing Mastery: Advanced Technique, Tactics, and Strategies From the Sweet Science by Mark Hatmaker and Doug Werner

and

Championship Streetfighting: Boxing As a Martial Art by Ned Beaumont.

There are lots of boxing books out there and these seemed to be two of the more positively received. Each I got for about $12, with free shipping from amazon. Haven't received them yet. About 3 weeks ago I started training at a boxing gym, 6 days a week. No sparring yet, just a lot of basic drills. I figure that I might be able to pick up something useful from the books, to go along with what the instructor teaches. I'm a fast reader who likes to read, so there won't be much lost if it turns out to be a waste of time. When I'm paying $85 per month for all the in-person instruction, $24 for two books might be worth it. I'll wait and see.

[rockinred]

Mmmmm thanks for all the responses in this thread. Since I read through the answers on this thread I kinda changed my mind a little bit. I purchased two books, they are

Boxing Mastery: Advanced Technique, Tactics, and Strategies From the Sweet Science by Mark Hatmaker and Doug Werner

and

Championship Streetfighting: Boxing As a Martial Art by Ned Beaumont.

There are lots of boxing books out there and these seemed to be two of the more positively received. Each I got for about $12, with free shipping from amazon. Haven't received them yet. About 3 weeks ago I started training at a boxing gym, 6 days a week. No sparring yet, just a lot of basic drills. I figure that I might be able to pick up something useful from the books, to go along with what the instructor teaches. I'm a fast reader who likes to read, so there won't be much lost if it turns out to be a waste of time. When I'm paying $85 per month for all the in-person instruction, $24 for two books might be worth it. I'll wait and see.

Well if it is for Boxing then I think you can get something out of a lot of books... I was never a MMA (came out after I wanted to fight for fun), but I boxed a lot when I was younger and I also read boxing books..boxing has been around for a very long time and there are a lot of secrets and tricks to this sport that vary across the world... most don't like to let them out, but like I stated before there are good books and there are junk ones... I took some good combinations, stances, defenses, and foot work from some books that helped a lot.. There are a lot of different approaches and perspectives; if you are intelligent enough (and not too proud, huge learning barrier), you can apply some of those things to your routine that are not taught at your gym...good luck.

[Patches24]

like I stated before there are good books and there are junk ones... I took some good combinations, stances, defenses, and foot work from some books that helped a lot.

Do you remember any particular books that you thought were the best?

[rockinred]

Do you remember any particular books that you thought were the best?

Patches, I boxed when I was 7-16, I am now 32.... I can't remember off top of my head....It was kind of like sonar said back in the early to mid 80's.... I am sure those books might still be around... let me do some digging... one other thing to remember it really d e pends on where you are in the learning curve... I would get in trouble when trying to apply something new that was not what I was taught at the gym... so i would have to pick and choose and practice on my own time some variations that mixed with what I was taught at the gym... then in some fights or in sparring I would try and apply them.... my whole point is to take in all you can to learn new things and apply when you can... I agree with most everyone on this thread that most of what you learn needs to be hands on....but don't count out anything it really d e pends on the type of learner you are and also on the gym you go to... I came from a small town so it wasn't a big time gym like others...you will progress faster at the minimum by understanding more of what you are doing by reading...

[Panzerfaust]

There are way to many intricate details involved in fighting, whether it be BJJ, Muay Thai, Wrestling, Karate..it makes no difference.

Go show someone a picture illustration of how to Thai clinch and then have them try it on you. Then go to a Thai school and have someone there Thai clinch you...all i can say is have fun with that.

Same with BJJ etc..

When i started in 1999, i had seen loads of BJJ moves/chokes etc...

IE: I remember being asked if i knew anything my first day, i said that i knew the basic lapel choke. So i was asked to show it, while my hands looked right, i did not know the mechanics behind the move to properly apply it and complete the submission (curling of the wrists etc).

Nothing will ever be better than hands on training.

[1819]

Useless for competetive purposes, not everyone trains for these reasons however...

correct. i hope that most that read here are training for reasons other than thinking they will make a living fighting. every guy i talk to wants me to teach their kid how to skate because they think the kid will be in the nhl someday. since iv'e been involved in boxing, every guy i meet "used" to box. now, with the popularity of mma, everyone thinks their gonna start taking classes at 25 and become an mma fighter. please, please people train for yourselves because you enjoy it. im sure the guys on this board, that do compete, will agree.

[Hunter]

correct. i hope that most that read here are training for reasons other than thinking they will make a living fighting. every guy i talk to wants me to teach their kid how to skate because they think the kid will be in the nhl someday. since iv'e been involved in boxing, every guy i meet "used" to box. now, with the popularity of mma, everyone thinks their gonna start taking classes at 25 and become an mma fighter. please, please people train for yourselves because you enjoy it. im sure the guys on this board, that do compete, will agree.

solid point. A very few select people can ever go pro in anything. Train becouse you want to broaden your horizons, see how far you can push yourself etc.

[rockinred]

correct. i hope that most that read here are training for reasons other than thinking they will make a living fighting. every guy i talk to wants me to teach their kid how to skate because they think the kid will be in the nhl someday. since iv'e been involved in boxing, every guy i meet "used" to box. now, with the popularity of mma, everyone thinks their gonna start taking classes at 25 and become an mma fighter. please, please people train for yourselves because you enjoy it. im sure the guys on this board, that do compete, will agree.

Are you referring to my statement about when I "used" to box? I see some good points in your statement and agree, but I also see a lot of unecessary hostility toward others just because they want to learn something... who really cares if a person thinks he is going to be the next heavy weight chanmp or not??... it really doesn't matter to me... eventually they just chalk it up as a learning experience when they get knocked around a bit, but I don't try to bring anyone down just because they want to take something from a book or put a lot of heart into their training... there are always exceptions to the rules anyways, including your comment about a 25 yr old becoming pro statement. There are plenty of those stories, you should of picked an older age for that comment.

[1819]

Are you referring to my statement about when I "used" to box? I see some good points in your statement and agree, but I also see a lot of unecessary hostility toward others just because they want to learn something... who really cares if a person thinks he is going to be the next heavy weight chanmp or not??... it really doesn't matter to me... eventually they just chalk it up as a learning experience when they get knocked around a bit, but I don't try to bring anyone down just because they want to take something from a book or put a lot of heart into their training... there are always exceptions to the rules anyways, including your comment about a 25 yr old becoming pro statement. There are plenty of those stories, you should of picked an older age for that comment.

no i was not referring to you. i meant people in general when they find out who i am or what i do. i have nothing but respect for anyone couragous enough to get into a ring. my point was directed at the guys who really know nothing except what the media tells them and i dont advise them to pick pro sports as a career. i work with elite athletes, hockey players and boxers, i have financial interests of course, but having made plenty of money on my own, it is not my priority. my priority is the young men who dont have the benefit of experience and i always try to guide them so they can achieve their goals. there are plenty of cinderella stories out there but the reality of pro sports is that most are not going to make it. harsh but true. train for all reasons except making a living, and if money should be in the picture then great. i meant no hostility. pro sports, especially the fight game, is a nasty, nasty buisness. believe it or not i'm one of the good guys!

[rockinred]

no i was not referring to you. i meant people in general when they find out who i am or what i do. i have nothing but respect for anyone couragous enough to get into a ring. my point was directed at the guys who really know nothing except what the media tells them and i dont advise them to pick pro sports as a career. i work with elite athletes, hockey players and boxers, i have financial interests of course, but having made plenty of money on my own, it is not my priority. my priority is the young men who dont have the benefit of experience and i always try to guide them so they can achieve their goals. there are plenty of cinderella stories out there but the reality of pro sports is that most are not going to make it. harsh but true. train for all reasons except making a living, and if money should be in the picture then great. i meant no hostility. pro sports, especially the fight game, is a nasty, nasty buisness. believe it or not i'm one of the good guys!

I am sorry... I misunderstood you... I agree with you 1000%, specially on the part that I highlighted...