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  1. #1
    J-Dogg is offline Anabolic Member
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    If Fedor Signed a 5 fight deal with the UFC. He'd loose some matches.

    Iím probably going to get chases off the board and BG and Muril will probably ban my account but here goes!

    I donít think Fedor is unbeatable and I donít think he would be the top P4P fighter, to be honest, I donít think he should be regarded as the top HW right now.

    Since MMA became a bigger sport in the US with in the last 2-4 years, the sport has come a long way. Fighters have gone from making 10k a fight to making 500k a fight some times. Your fighters in the UFC use to be your top guys from Tuff Man competitions or the local Karate instructor in town.

    Since then, then more athletic guys are getting involved. College and Olympian level athletes. Bigger and stronger athletes.

    I think Fedor is a great HW. I also belive everyone LOVES the idea of a legend. Thatís why we read comic books, watch movies, itís why we still talk about Tyson in his prime and as kids our dads, because no one can kick my dads ass!

    2 years ago, we were all talking (I was the WORSE) about how Crocrop was going to clean out the UFC HWs. I was laughing at Forrest Vs. Shogun and I felt bad for everyone when Wandy signed with the UFC. Those guys were unstoppable. No one in the UFC could touch them.

    They are all loosing, the sport has evolved. Game plans are so important; the athletes are bigger and stronger. They are training at mulit million dollar camps. They have billionaire sponsors. They are full time fighters and they are not kicking poles in Thailand, boxing a back yard ring in Brazlil or wrestling in front of their villa.

    I think all these guys are marvelous fightes, and put on a great show. But if we have learned nothing from fights over the past 2-3 years, itís that no one that was unbeatable in 2004 is today unbeatable. There are too many new talented fighters coming up.

    Fedor beat CroCrop in 2005. Itís 2009, that was his last serious contender. CroCrop is now washed up, and loosing, why is it so hard to believe Fedor could fall victim to the same?

    Fedor beat Syliva, who to be honest, was a 6í8Ē chuck Liddell, a 1 dimensional fighter. Sprawl and box. He came in and caught him, he was very aggressive just like Wandy was against Jardine. Just like Alexander Houston was against Jardine. Iím not saying Tim is better by any means, Iím saying just because you clock Tim Syliva and he falls down, you are not he best in the world. Iíll also say just because you beat Nog in 2004 and beat CroCrop in 2005 it does not mean you are currently the best HW in 2009.

    Fedor will probably beat AA. And AA has good boxing, but to be honest, I think Congo could beat AA. Big deal AA beat Big Ben and Roy NelsonÖand heís all the sudden ranked #2? AA has 2 notable wins in his entire career. 1 would be Timmy who he lost to twice after and Werdum who is not even ranked in the top 10 in a decision.

    I guess look at it like this Royce Grace was at one point unbeatable, beating up everyone from 100lb guys to 300lb guys. Ken Shamrock Was, Chuck Liddell was, Wandy was, CroCrop was all those guys are getting beat. Why is it so hard to consider for Fedor fans that if he came to the UFC, a ambitious young guy could train very hard, and possibly beat him?

  2. #2
    MuscleScience is online now AR-Hall of Famer
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    I dont think Fedor is unbeatable, having said that he is pretty damn good.

  3. #3
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    ^^ agreed. not to mention fighters don't make 500k a fight in the ufc

  4. #4
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    Deltasaurus is offline The Over Analyzing Nattabolic
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    my question is whos gunna beat him??? Randy??? Les? Mir? Kongo? nadda but yeah its hard for fighter to make the transfer from the ring to the cage

  5. #5
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    No one thinks Fedor is unbeatable....but if you know anything about MMA I think you are a fool to not say he is the best at heavyweight. He has not been dethroned from that title and until someone does so, you can't say someone is better than him. You can speculate all you want but there is no other fighter out there that is as battle tested as Fedor in the heavyweight ranks. He fought all of those fighters you mentioned when they were in their prime and he beat them all. And maybe he will lose to AA....I doubt it but any one can lose to anybody on any given night. I sure as hell would not say Congo is going to be the one to beat him.

    Also what is up with you being all down on the guys who used to dominate the sport....this is the second post you have made about how you think the old greats aren't great anymore. Everybody starts to get old J-Dogg, it is inevitable.

  6. #6
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    I agree that any fighter can be beaten, but who in the ufc would do it?? A lot of the top HW fighters are not in the ufc. I think someone who has a chance is maybe Barnett.

  7. #7
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    i wanna name?? if so then who? thats my ? We all know it takes 1 good shot...but thats all its taken all his carrer....gimme a name....

  8. #8
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    LOL Ive always thought Barnett had a real good chance of beating him and a little more seasoned GG/Lesnar too.

    Dogg I aint got nothing against you lol.

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  9. #9
    Brown Ninja's Avatar
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    You make great points but I think that you are selling Fedor short. The man is flat out amazing. He is heavyweights answer to Anderson Silva. He moves a step faster than the competition and can take the fight anywhere and win convincingly. You are right in that Sylvia is not the measuring stick of who the greatest heavy in the world is but no one can deny that what Fedor did to him, no one else has even come close to doing that. Its not as if Fedor went in swinging wildly with his chin up, like Wand or Chuck, he picked him apart. Fedor and Anderson transcend the sport and are so far superior to those that they fight that I think they are immune to the losses that some of the other top guys take.

  10. #10
    J-Dogg is offline Anabolic Member
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    Just saying, no one would ever expect Mir to beat nog, or Congo to beat CroCrop, or GG to kick Crocrops head off.

    No one would expect Forrest to chock out Shogun, or Tito to beat Wandy in 2004, for Wandy to loose 4 of 5 fights in a row.

    With all this happening, and happening in 2 years, is it that hard to belive that Fedor might not be as dominate as he seems? Is it possible that fighters can beat him? because I never saw these guys loosing regaurdless of their age.

    2 years ago, if you said to me "who can beat shogun in the UFC?" I would NEVER think forrest griffen. 2 years ago who was GG? Who was Congo? They can't even be in a sentance with CroCrop.

    I don't know who would beat him. But he is hiding behind his awsome victories from 4 years ago.

    They feed him AA. but AA is not doing that great. He got taken down pretty quick by Roy Nelson who is a shorter and weaker version of Tank Abbot and he did not want to beon the ground. Fedor you bet he's going to take him down.

    What's he got to loose? He's hiding, he was not making tons of money in pride. UFC will pay him better money than pride for a 3 fight deal. 3 fights in the UFC, Randy, GG and Lesnar. Beat them all and secure your legacy.

    Or play it safe and live with some people speculating.

  11. #11
    Brown Ninja's Avatar
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    Bro there are, overall, much better Heavys in Affliction than the UFC. Fedor made much much more in Pride than the Ufc was offering. I personally would rather see Fedor fight AA, Barnett and the Affliction guys than an old Randy and Mir

  12. #12
    J-Dogg is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Ninja View Post
    Bro there are, overall, much better Heavys in Affliction than the UFC. Fedor made much much more in Pride than the Ufc was offering. I personally would rather see Fedor fight AA, Barnett and the Affliction guys than an old Randy and Mir
    You really think?

    Honestly, AA beat a old man in Ben Rothwell and it took him 3 rounds.

    He beat an out of shape Roy Nelson, and Roy took him to the ground and actually caught him at one point but could not capitalize on it.

    Why would that rank him higher than Werdem, GG, Mir, Congo or even Lesnar?

    To be honest, with a few more fights I think GG could be the man of the HW class. He lost to randy when he busted his nose and to Werdum. But look at the actually "good" opponets Josh B. has beat, and look who he has lost too.

    I just don't understand why guys are being ranked #1, 2 and 3 for what they did 3 years ago, or what recent cans they beat.

    Would Chuck still be ranked number 1, if he only beat Wandy and did not loose to Rampage, Jardin and Evans? He would, but Chuck has fought 4 top 10 LHWs in the past 18 months and beat 1.

    Overall, I think there is lack of talent in the HW class though too. A LHW probably has a better shot at beating him. I think Arona actually was robbed by the judges at their fight in 2000 and Arona is a 1 demensional BJJ fighter who has been dominated by LHW fighters.

  13. #13
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    j dogg you seem oblivious to the fact that people get OLDER

    "for Wandy to loose 4 of 5 fights in a row. "

    he's OLD, it happens. he's all but done for. he had a good run, this will happen to everyone

  14. #14
    BG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Ninja View Post
    I personally would rather see Fedor fight AA, Barnett and the Affliction guys than an old Randy and Mir
    X2.

    But i would love to see "all" of them under one organization.

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by T_Own View Post
    j dogg you seem oblivious to the fact that people get OLDER

    "for Wandy to loose 4 of 5 fights in a row. "

    he's OLD, it happens. he's all but done for. he had a good run, this will happen to everyone
    Seriously the guy used to bare knuckle fight back in Brazil. Not to mention all the blows hes taken in his mma career. Theres only so long you can take that kind of punishment. Wandy is still a great fighter I think but he just dont have the chin for it anymore.

  16. #16
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    Nelson and Rotwell are very good fighters

  17. #17
    dameter21 is offline Junior Member
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    Fedor is the best.. yeah there's gonna come a day when he might lose.
    But the man is proven time and time again that he is by far the best HW in the world right now.

  18. #18
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    AA will be a great test and after that I am sure that he will get to fight Barnett but after that, then what? A lot of people have jumped on the Overeem bandwagon but I don't see it. GG, Carwin, and Lesnar are the fights that everyone wants to see. I hope we can see at least one of those take place in 09.

  19. #19
    J-Dogg is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Ninja View Post
    AA will be a great test and after that I am sure that he will get to fight Barnett but after that, then what? A lot of people have jumped on the Overeem bandwagon but I don't see it. GG, Carwin, and Lesnar are the fights that everyone wants to see. I hope we can see at least one of those take place in 09.
    What has AA and Barnett done in the past 2 years to make them #2 and #3?


    I mean we are in a era right now, that giants that ARE fighting multiple times a year are falling.

    I think 2 years ago, Fedor was the best HW in the world. He has not fought enough top level fighters in the past 2 years, to be the current top HW in the world.

    2 Years ago Wandy was the top LHW, CroCrop was the #2 HW, Matt Hughes was the top WW.

    Just saying, the sport has come SO far in the past few years. Fedor IMO has to step up.

    He won't move to the UFC, I'll garantee that. Fighting top condenders 3 times a year he runs too high of a risk in loosing his undefeated status.

    AA poses a small threat, and Barnett is all hype, why was he even moved up to #2/3? Because other people lost and someone had to take thier place.

  20. #20
    Brown Ninja's Avatar
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    I am not sure anyone is calling AA and Barnett #2 and #3 but here is a list of who they have fought the last two years......
    Mark Hunt
    Nog
    Pawel Nastula
    Cro Cop
    Jeff Monson
    Pedro Rizzo
    Ben Rothwell
    Tim Sylvia
    Werdum
    Marcio Cruz

    That is pretty much a who's who of the Heavyweight Division. Who has fought tougher competition these past two years? Randy? Brock? GG? Are you trying to say Fedor is not that good or that he is fighting subpar competition. Have you followed his career?

  21. #21
    Brown Ninja's Avatar
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    How is Barnett all hype? Please explain.
    And how is a 250lb Heavyweight who is athletic as hell, excellent on his feet, solid on the ground, and very explosive considered a "small threat"

  22. #22
    J-Dogg is offline Anabolic Member
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    AA’s record is actually pretty bad, of the guys you listed he has a single notable win:

    Werdum

    He has a win on Sylvia then he lost to him twice in a row
    Short of that, he’s a 14/5 fighter who has lost almost all of his big matches.

    As far as Barrnett goes, he’s actually more impressive than AA and should be ranked higher, but then again, he’s not the one fighting Fedor…yet

    Monson he beat, he’s a decent HW but I don’t think he’s EVER been considered a top 10 HW. Looking through his record, has he even beat anyone in the top 20? He even lost to Forrest Griffen when eh was still green in 2002.
    Why even bring up he fought CroCrop? He lost to him 3 times.
    He split 1 for 1 with Rizzo and Rizzo is not in the top 20.
    He pulled off a split with Nog in 2006 and then lost to him 2 months later.
    He beat Mark Hunt….who is a 5-5 career fighter.
    He did beat Randy.

    I’m not beating these 2 guys up, but come on?

    Even though Randy just lost to Lesnar I’d still think he could beat these guys. I think Lesnar could also. I think Mir would have a good chance.

    I think GG and Werdum should be in the top 10 and deserve to more than Tim Sylvia or Ben Rothwell.

    Barnett is not athletic as hell either, he's acutally kinda fat.

  23. #23
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    Barnett is not athletic because he is kinda fat? Dude get a clue.
    AA ruled the UFC for 2 almost three years. He fought who they put in front of him when that divsion was very weak. What else could he do? The loss to Rizzo was very early in is career.

  24. #24
    roid_rage is offline Associate Member
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    J-dogg, for real, get off Dana white balls, Since your are talking about who is who, let me ask you something, WHO THE HECK HAS GG beat??? WHO???? besides CC (that you are calling a big can) and you think he will be the man??? LOL... while barnett, AA and Fedor had fought pretty much all HWs outthere, still you call GG the "man"LMFAO.. no the UFC aint got shit of fedor, NO LESNAR will not be able to beat him, and less than anyone, kongo...

    Plus calling Ben Rothwell and Roy nelson cans just is a total disrespect for them, plus shows how much you know about this sport... Certanly they are not top 5 material, but under no circunstances someones to **** around with... Plus you called Roy Nelson out of shape??? AHHAHAHHA... hes a fat guy, that's his genetics, but he's extremely flexible, and if you have ever see him fight, you will know that he doenst gas very easily...

  25. #25
    J-Dogg is offline Anabolic Member
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    Roy was gassed 20 seconds into round 2 with AA...... Rothwell is a punching bag sorry.

    CC has not always been a can, but he is now.

    Not even a fan of Dana.

    I'm not even calling Fedor a can, but if you look at my initial post, the power houses in pride were unbeatable 2 years ago....IW Wandy/CroCrop/Shogun and they have 2 victories between the 3 of them in a year?

    No one expected Kongo or GG to beat CroCrop, why (especially after UFC 92) is it that hard to belive they, or Mir or even Lesnar stand 0% chance against Fedor?

    I don't think Kongo or GG or Mir are "the man" but I do feel they are deserving of a better ranking than Rothwell or Roy Nelson.

    I don't think Barnett is anything special with athletic ability. I think he puts together a good game plan, and he has that going for him. But Athletic to me are fighters who are really explosive like Kos, GSP or even Randelman. It's not really about fat either, AA is less athletic than Kos or GSP but is still shredded. More of a balance of power, stamina and flexability.

    And AA did rule the HW in the UFC for 2 years. Timmeh did 2 years after, Liddel was king at one point as well, Hughes was probably the most dominate person to ever be in the UFC, hell Royce Gracie at one point was the most dominate fighter in all classes.

    That is exactly my point, all the fighters that were the top dogs 2 years ago, are not even in the top 10 anymore. Fedor has fought 1 top 10 fighter in the past 2 years. Their is a new crop of fighters he has to beat to remain at the top.

  26. #26
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    I'm not even calling Fedor a can, but if you look at my initial post, the power houses in pride were unbeatable 2 years ago....IW Wandy/CroCrop/Shogun and they have 2 victories between the 3 of them in a year?

    Its a decent point but you are losing site of some things. They have all fought top tier competition. Shogun fought Forest and blew out his knee, hence his no wins in the UFC. Wandy has fought arguably two of the top 5 Light Heavys on the planet and another one that rounds out the top ten. Crocop has lost interest in the sport plain and simple.


    Crocop was never the same after the Fedor fight. He lost to Hunt and never had his head in it as well. Although we all hoped to see the Mirko of old the writing was on the wall and he got beat by a tough up and comer in GG. How is Kongo that much of a surprise? A long athletic striker with equal or greater strength.

    Fedor is making the rounds and fighting the best of the best but he can only do so much due to his contract and in my mind he has greater competition to face in Affliction than he would in the UFC.

  27. #27
    J-Dogg is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Ninja View Post
    I'm not even calling Fedor a can, but if you look at my initial post, the power houses in pride were unbeatable 2 years ago....IW Wandy/CroCrop/Shogun and they have 2 victories between the 3 of them in a year?

    Its a decent point but you are losing site of some things. They have all fought top tier competition. Shogun fought Forest and blew out his knee, hence his no wins in the UFC. Wandy has fought arguably two of the top 5 Light Heavys on the planet and another one that rounds out the top ten. Crocop has lost interest in the sport plain and simple.


    Crocop was never the same after the Fedor fight. He lost to Hunt and never had his head in it as well. Although we all hoped to see the Mirko of old the writing was on the wall and he got beat by a tough up and comer in GG. How is Kongo that much of a surprise? A long athletic striker with equal or greater strength.

    Fedor is making the rounds and fighting the best of the best but he can only do so much due to his contract and in my mind he has greater competition to face in Affliction than he would in the UFC.
    I agree, just no one ever saw Forrest beating Shogun, Wandy loosing to anyone in the UFC.

    How do you honestly feel AA would fair against Gonzoga though? I mean GG is not even a top 10 HW acording to most rankings.

    IMO GG has the ground game easy. AA has more technical boxing, but I think some GG leg kicks, knees to the thighs, legs and body would allow him to get it to the ground pretty easy. AA does not have the best take down defense in the world and GG is a big guy to be laying on top of you.

    I don't even know that AA could out strike Congo, because he's so long.

    I think Barnett has a better shot against either of them than AA does though.

    I just think the UFC does have some HWs that are gaining experince and if Fedor does want to secure his legacy, he honestly can't appear to dodge fights. He's going to be a ledgend regaurdless, Wandy is and he's loosing right now. I just honestly feel he has to fight some of these guys.

  28. #28
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    You make great points and the only thing wrong with your thinking is that you are being to critical of non UFC fighters. GG is tough as nails and him and AA would be a great fight. I see AA taking it but by no means easily. How do you feel Fedor is ducking people?He has a contract and he has to honor it. Has he ever ducked anyone? No way. He's fought Nog, Timmy, Schilt, Coleman, Herring, Randleman, Cro Cop, Hunt, Babulu, and Arona.What more can he do? He's fighting AA and will fight Barnett next and maybe Wedum after that. Don't penalize him for not fighting people in the ufc

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    dude, GG looks like he has all the tools, even worst, he has it, big man, good jitz, good power etc etc, yet so far he has shown that is no more than a mediocre fighter...

    How can you compera KOs or GSP wit AA, of course he's not as athletic as them, he's about 100 pounds heavier... Plus you are giving too much credit to fighters that really dont deserve it... And how is fedor going to risk his legacy by not fighting GG???? or kongo??? or even Lesnar... none of them so far is really up to the challenge, not even on papers, you may have your oppinion, and "THINK" what could happen, but the truth and records of them speak for them self. The only one I see now deserving a shot at fedor is mir.. the rest, have a long way to go.

  30. #30
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    Fedor vs Mir is a very intriguing fight. Fedor is superior on the feet obviously even after the Nog fight but Mir is so big and strong it would be interesting to see how it played out on the ground

  31. #31
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    I personally agree with u j-dogg but at the end of the day he should of faught randy when randy was in his prime,if he beat him then i think he would of shut alot of haters up,i think randy would of grinded out a decsion(lol no trouble ppl).
    As for AA i think - fedor round 1 armbar

  32. #32
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    it's unfair to penalize Fedor for not fighting Randy. When was Randys prime? He has always been tough but he has losses sprinkled in all over his career. It would be hard to say that he was ever better than he is today. I think Fedor would have smoked him back then or right now

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Dogg View Post
    AAís record is actually pretty bad, of the guys you listed he has a single notable win:

    Werdum

    He has a win on Sylvia then he lost to him twice in a row
    Short of that, heís a 14/5 fighter who has lost almost all of his big matches.

    As far as Barrnett goes, heís actually more impressive than AA and should be ranked higher, but then again, heís not the one fighting FedorÖyet

    Monson he beat, heís a decent HW but I donít think heís EVER been considered a top 10 HW. Looking through his record, has he even beat anyone in the top 20? He even lost to Forrest Griffen when eh was still green in 2002.
    Why even bring up he fought CroCrop? He lost to him 3 times.
    He split 1 for 1 with Rizzo and Rizzo is not in the top 20.
    He pulled off a split with Nog in 2006 and then lost to him 2 months later.
    He beat Mark HuntÖ.who is a 5-5 career fighter.
    He did beat Randy.

    Iím not beating these 2 guys up, but come on?

    Even though Randy just lost to Lesnar Iíd still think he could beat these guys. I think Lesnar could also. I think Mir would have a good chance.

    I think GG and Werdum should be in the top 10 and deserve to more than Tim Sylvia or Ben Rothwell.

    Barnett is not athletic as hell either, he's acutally kinda fat.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brown Ninja View Post
    it's unfair to penalize Fedor for not fighting Randy. When was Randys prime? He has always been tough but he has losses sprinkled in all over his career. It would be hard to say that he was ever better than he is today. I think Fedor would have smoked him back then or right now
    i know what you mean & i didnt mean 2 penalize fedor for not fighting him we both no it was the powers that be that stoped it. i just ment that theres so many randy fans out there that belive that randy is the best HW/ ever,the only way that fedor would be universaly seen as the best ever is if he beat randy.

    Haveing said that i think overall fedor is a more complete fighter and would beat 99% of all ufc fighters.But i honestly belive that randy is the better tactician and he would be able 2 find a way 2 beat fedor.

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    you can never count out randy but what hole in fedors game could he possibly find? He could out wrestle him but then what? I see randy getting subbed or mashed into a tko.

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    I think the fact that they are so close in size makes it very interesting. I think we can all agree that Brock, although very tough, beat randy on shear size

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