The bet...

[KunipshunFit]

Well, I wanted to update the cardio and weight tracking for those interested.

It's odd, i didnt really loose any weight this week, but That has happend before, and so.

I do have one question.

I'm going to be running a cycle of Fina/Winny

Basically i'm going to do

Fina @ 75mg ED 50 days (7 weeks)
Winny @ 50mg ED 42 days (6 weeks)
Clomid Post etc

My problem is, I've taken my weight and I dont know how to account for this with the AAS. I'm guessing I'll gain some and still be loosing fat.

I'm guessing I'll have to go by my measurements *(thank god i took some)* and by pictures.

But my question of a more serious nature is.

I know when on AS your receptors can handle more and the fina with the winny should harden me up pretty nicely. But should I adjust my carbs any to accomidate the higher protien that I'll be needing?

I'm currently getting around 250 grams of protien a day on average. I was going to up this to around the 300-350 level (1.5 to 2 g/per body lb)

Any help with this is appreciated. Fina will be put through the final filter tonight, I made it last night. Winny is on track, just need my 20 more amps..which will be here by Valentines day, which is a week before they begin.

My ass is so freaken anxious to start my fina...It will be ready by Jan 30th, and damn it I wanna take the first shot THEN...lol Damn this waiting... But Fina for 9 weeks, well that would be interesting..LOL

Anyway, all help is appreciated as said before.

Later

K

[Doc M]

Kunip..It looks like everything is going well for you. Mike always has good advice and from everything I have read, I agree with the info.

I agree that you may watch how much cardio you are performing. What types of cardio work are you doing? Intensity level?

Your diet seems on track, although I can't seem to understand why you are consuming 3-4 chicken breasts per meal. You definitely need at least 1.5gms-2.0gms per pound or bodyweight, but too much at once can be very hard on the digestive system especially your kidneys. You may try to spread those out throughout the day so you are not consuming such large quatities at once. Protein can only be broken down and utilized in certain quantities (45-60gms) at a time and anything beyond that is transported right out into the toilet. A high concentration of protein can cause an acrid odor with a yellowish coloring.

Something else you may consider if you are worried about losing lean muscle, is it consume a low carb, low calorie protein drink in the middle of the evening when you get up to go to the bathroom. Prepare it before you go to bed and keep it in the fridge. This helps the the body keep a positive nitrogen state and it cuts down on muscle catabolism while you are sleeping. 20-25 gms is a good rule of thumb. Designer protein is a good product and at the low consumption rate a container will last you for a month or so.

Also, remeber 1 gallon of water sounds like a lot, but when you are weight training, doing cardio, taking clen , and ECA you are sucking a lot of water out of your body through increased sweating, respiration, and the natural diuretic effects of ECA. Play around with your water consumption because dehydration will throw a monkey wrench at you and you may not even realize it is due to dehydration. I could go on and on, but will see how you feel about what I have suggested. Doc M

[KunipshunFit]

Hey! Thanx for the reply!

Where to start with all you said.

Ok first the protien...I realize the 2-3 breasts per meal is a bit much, but I recently broke my food scale..and have yet bought another. I know a butcher and I get a great deal on them...20lbs for like 10 dollars.. so anyway...I've backed that off now...1 and a half breasts every meal...roughly and 12oz steak at a time MAX *center cut sirlon*

Cardio - Eliptical cross trainer - 45 minutes, Heart rate at an average of 150bpm. According to the eliptical which i'm sure is off..it averages out to 3.6-3.8 miles per session while burning roughly 675-700 cals..i know that's gotta be off..

Um Water - I get a gallon no prob...would like a bit more

Um...er...*trying to remember what all you wrote so i dont have to edit this in 5 minutes* um..ok i'm an idiot..time to post and then edit...


ok i remember..the shake at night..Actually I recently started doing this...i make a small lil' 22g Protien shake..hardly any ice..put it in the fridge around 10pm...and when i wake up at around 1, i drink it in like 2 gulps..then get back in bed...until i get up at 5:30 to hit cardio.

I'm sure i left something out..so just let me know.
Thanx for the help!

Oh, i'll be updating my pics again, and trying to get the "before, before and now, set-up going again for the very end..."

K

[Doc M]

Well, it sounds like you are on the right track. Anytime you start something like this it always requires a little tweak here and there. I think the things I illustrated were components that I felt were missing, but you have added those so I think you should be good.

I forgot to mention something about the caffeine though. With stimulants the body starts to require more and more to achieve a desirable result. Kind of like a drug addict starts off with one run of heroine and 6 months later is going thru 5 runs a day. The body builds a tolerance and that's why I think it's a good idea to cycle the ECA stack. Any supplementsl caffeine you take will probably have very little effect since the dosages in Hydrocut is rather high. I would also recommend you monitr your heart rate and BLOOD PRESSURE. Not to scare you, but I have seen treated patients who were using ECA's and came in with nervousness, nausea, and headaches and thought something was wrong. They were right, their blood pressure was through the roof and under the right conditions a stroke can result. So monitor this very closely. You're too young to stroke out.

Keep it up. I always use pictures to track my progress instead of scales. You don't notice your results when you look at yourself everyday in the mirror. I take it one step further: When I am dieting down, I make sure my wife does not see me naked, I don't look in the mirror except from the neck up, and I take a frontal relaxed photo and a flexed one, and then the same for the rear every week. have always had great success with this, but do what you are comfortable with. i like this because the dramatic changes really help to motivate me. Good Luck! Doc M

[KunipshunFit]

Thanx for the quick reply!

Yeah I appreciate the help..trust me all help is greatly appreciated.

Today I'm taking pics...it's been roughly 4 weeks since I took the last pics....

I like the idea of taking pics every week..but that messes with me mentally to much...

I'm also thinking of checking the weight every week and just writing it down and ignoring it..especially if i'm about to start a cycle..the weight is nt going to be as accurate...


As far as the ECA stack...ya know it's amazing what 2 weeks off did to me...

I mistakenly took the max dose this morning, and was like WOAH..oppps..

so i backed it down to medium levels... The one good thing about my body is from taking the ECA's...i've learned how to play with that effectively...(prolly the only thing i'm actually sure about lol)

Again, THANX

[platinum]

Thanks for pointing me in this direction earlier today. I've read every last word of this thread and....LOL.... I SWEAR, I could have written some of it. I especially like the part about not having a partner through it all, I know how you feel. It's motivating for me to read this.

I'm always glad to hear someone else voice frustration w/the bf scales. I've got one. When I decided to eat right again,after almost a year of eating like sh!t, but still lifting, my scale said 20% bf. Well, two weeks later I got on it again and it said 25%! That was after strict dieting and cardio, so I know it was off.

Is your diet still the same as far as amounts are concerned as it was when you started? I always have a tough time with that.


Thanks for this thread, great information and motivation.

Platinum

[KunipshunFit]

How come everytime I do a diet, I end up with hooking up with a girl?

What's up with this shit!? My ex from way back in the day..we've been seeing each other again...She's going through a divorce so it's nothing to serious...only problem is I love her,and she loves me...and we both try to NOT say it...so it sorta is like HEY DONT THINK OF THE COLOR RED, so ofcourse we think of the color RED..

HEHE

Anyway, she's playing hell with my diet, but giving me great ab work outs

At any rate...I didnt update the weight this week, I wanted to skip a week checking it. I'm nervous about this fina and winny combo, simply because I have a feeling i'm going to gain weight, and loose fat, and I've been looking at the weight in the past. Now will test my mental strength.

I'm staying away from the scale, and really really focusing on my diet hard as hell. I am in week 9 of 16...and simply hoping i'm not to bad at this point to get to my goal of 7%

K

[KunipshunFit]

Tuesday (Feb 4, 2003)

Just wanted to update on the shots, today is day 6 and My shot today will "hopefully" come around lunch, however I'm very busy and so it may have to wait until AFTER I work out. I try to avoid this as my muscles are tight, and even if it's not a group i'm injecting IN...it still makes it a pain.

At any rate, Fina is going well...I'm hoping it shuts me down for a week or so...due to a few other problems.. Test is comming and will be thrown in @ 250mg per week. Most likely on Thursday's

Diet has been off a bit this week. Trying to balance my carbs has played hell with my diet, instead of getting 2 or 3 meals with the carbs, i'm trying to balance them out through the entire day (up till 5) then it's some post work out at 7pm

All in all, I think the calories have been at my maintenance level and not as far down as they need to be. But it's hard to tell due to the Fina..

I doubt it could have any effects this quickly...could it?

Clen starts again this Sunday...Hydroxycut is going well.

Well i'm off

Lata

KunipshunFit

[Decoder]

You have put some major size on since you got that tatto on the back.

[KunipshunFit]

I appreciate the compliment Decoder!

Well next week i'm hoping to feel this fina...and i'm gonna go ahead and start my winny a week early...maybe..i'm so impatient!!!!!

Thanx for the compliment

Lata

K

[themaxx]

KunipshunFit check your mail. Hopr it helps

[KunipshunFit]

the max...

My hotmail account? I checked it...nothing there

now you've done gone and gotten me all curious....

K'fit

[themaxx]

try now. if you don't recieve it i'll post it on here but it's a bit long winded.

[KunipshunFit]

GOT IT!

Damn it's long...

Time to read it while at work...

[KunipshunFit]

I just wanted to update this thread.

I've noticed the Fina is def kicking in!! (it is referenced by days taken in LIGHT BLUE) on the cardio sheet. The winny will start on Feb 16th.

My cardio has been ok...I've sorta stopped loosing, and i think this is due to the Fina..however; I still wanna get down to 190...which is roughly 10 more pounds. I'm going to up the cardio to 6 days a week something like this

Day 1 45mins in AM and 25 in the pm
Day 2 45mins in AM
Day 3 45mins in AM and 25 in the pm
Day 4 45mins in AM
Day 5 45mins in AM
Day 6 45mins in AM and 25 in the pm
Day 7 OFF

Let me know how this looks, and I'd love to hear some opinions...

now the attachments..

[KunipshunFit]

2-17-03

Weight and Cardio updates will be attached.

Fina has been hitting me very hard since day 10. Pumps are amazing...Hardness is definately increasing. I have not noticed the strength to much, as I'm going for reps...However, I will say weight that was a struggle for 10 is now being done for 15 reps..

for example shoulder press of 205 use to be hard for 10, now i hit it for 12-15 with little to no problem.

Diet has been a bit shaky over the past 4-5 days. And my mind has been really fucked up by this girl situation I'm having. I'm trying to get over it by focusing on my training, I just fear the stress is going to have a negative reaction for my body. Time will tell. All I can do is train/eat/sleep and hope it doesnt hurt me to much.

I was very pleased with my weight this past week, as the two weeks prior I felt like I was gaining. My water has not been as high as I would hope (consumption) so i'm guessing I lost some water weight!

I've upped the cardio as outlined before, and hope to see continued results with this. Winny started on the 16th, and I'm hoping it dries me out and gets mea bit harder with some new vascularity.

I'm scared to take pics again, because I still feel like a fat ass. I dont think i'll hit 8% by my deadline, but I'll settle for anything with defined abs. But ya never know!

I have searched and searched for how to drop water and when to start however, i've yet been able to find exactly what I'm looking for. So Mike XXL, I know yoru busy as fuck, but if ya get a few moments can ya hit me with an email or a post on how you would advise to do it..(for that matter anyone else who knows )

I've been away from the boards for awhile, dealing with this girl drama, and I hope to be back on as much as I normally am....I do apoogize for my absence.

OH...one more thing...the final weight as suggested earlier in my thread ina response entitled "MIND FOOD FOR KUNIPSHUNFIT" is 190ish. I'm thinking I'll come in a bit under that when I drop water, but we shall see...

I await the reply's...

see attachements.

[KunipshunFit]

blue indicates fina start date
green indicates fina and winny at same time

I just wanted to bitch for a second and say FUCK, FINA SHUTS YOU DOWN HARD SEXUALLY!!!!!

OK, i'm done now....good thing i dont have the girl anymore otherwise she'd be bitchen at me to get my prop sooner, so i could do my duties...

K'Fit

[MacGyver]

Hey.... I think I like this thread better than ours!

Dude you are so committed. If my calculations are correct (and theyre probably not) you weighed in at 197 last week? Thats bad ass. Im trying to get where youre at and vice versa with the same cycle. Can you believe that we're doing the same cycle and having the same type of problems as well. I hate women. Actually the one Im dealing w/ is acting like a little fucking girl and thats why she got dropped on her ass. "Dont come back yackity yack." I so feel your pain bro. Stay the hell away from women when youre trying to get a better physique they only want you to fail and eat bacon and egg tacos w/a pizza. A big one!

ON to more important matters... Man thats gonna suck waiting for that Winn to kick in and wanting those immediate results. The last time I did winn w/ test, it seemed like if I did a great ab workout by the time I got home and looked at em they already improved.

COme on and get that test yo! We need to make this the best cycle ever. Judging by your progress youre never gonna forget these months. Keep it up youre more than half way there!

[KunipshunFit]

I wanted to update this thread...and have a few questions about these measurements

Ok...first the question

1. I'm cutting...How the hell can certain measurements increase? My chest and arms increased a lot! Now, granted I've been shooting my bi's and tri's, but I took these measurements today (2-21-03) as i've not shot my bi's for 3 days.

01-12-03 ---- 02-21-03
WEIGHT 204 ---- 197
Wrist 7.0 ---- 7.0
Arms 16.5 ---- 17.25
Chest 44 ---- 45.5
Quad 24.5 ---- 24.5
Calf 17.5 ---- 17.5


Cardio has been upped to 3 days at 60 minutes, 3 days of 45 minutes, one day of rest (sunday typically) although i'm going to rotate that day some to fool my body

I'm having the fat checked this weekend with calipers.. As of today i'm exactly 41 days from the bet. I'm hoping to weigh in around 195 tomorrow when I get the bodyfat checked...I'll check it with the calipers and the electrostatic scale... I may even post pics tomorrow...but i'm not sure

Fina is going great! Winny, Well i dont know what to expect from it...as far as what to feel...so that's a bit harder to see i guess...

Any opinions on my questions is appreciated...lata

K'Fit

[KunipshunFit]

Well I will say one thing about a cycle carb diet... Your body can not adjust to shit! My body is so confused it has no idea what to do...I think because of this it is saying "hey...fuck you, i'm just going to stop working".... I carbed up Sunda to an amazing 400g carbs, Then monday it was down to 75g of Carbs... Now silly ME..it was suppose to be 150 g of carbs, but when i got home post workout, I layed down in my bed, and was thinking... "Oh, i'll just lay here for a second"...my body's idea of a second ended up being from 8pm that night, until 5:30am the next morning, when my alarm clock went off....

I came into the gym this morning and I've never had to force myself so hard to get through cardio.. After cardio i got ready for work and came here to get some carbs... afterall today is suppose to be a 150g day... So i had my 1/2 baked potato and 1/2 cup of milk (to get me a bit of sugar) and my chicken breast.. I'm hoping it will all kick in and hit me with some energy soon. Hell a speed stack with 400mg ephedrine didnt even help this am!



Also, I have a few questions...my weight has been doing some very fucked up things...check out the updated weight scale below...i mean that's some seriously fucked up weights...now granted this past weeks weight, it was on sunday instead of saturday, and i was carbin' up on sunday....

My fina, looks to be ending this week, I'm so sad... but my winny will make up for it..

Pumps are amazing..hit shoulders yesterday and can barely lift them today!

at any rate, here are the updated cardio tracking and weight scales..

i'm all up for some opinions n' such

again pics wont be posted until the very end. As i'm learning the camera hates me and i see some things the camera doesnt...

[roch]

keep it up man your doing awesome. you're almost there so don't talk negative. YOU WILL MAKE YOUR GOAL!!!! C'MON YOU ARE THE MAN!!

[KunipshunFit]

I appreciate the encouraging words.

However, I had the caliper body fat test perfomred with 4 weeks left in the diet. I am not going to make my goal of 8%. If i'm lucky i'll make 10. My body fat came in at around 11.98 and I had a 7 point caliper test done.

I've got the measurements out in the car, and I'll get them around lunch time to day and come back and edit this thread. I remember all my fat is on the back and sides and the third most obvious place was my lower abs *(which were around 12)*

My arms really suprised me, if i remember correctly my tri's were 6 and my bi's were 4.5

At any rate, i'll post all the measurements later. At least now, I know the parts that are killing me and some of my stronger points.

I've said before, and i'll re-state now. I'm not going to stop the diet even when this "bet" ends. I'll extend it until I reach my goal. I'm glad it works out like this with the bet ending right around the time it's starting to get sunny and almost spring time. This way I wont slack off, but I'm hoping to take a break of a few days, and then push myself harder for the summer preperation.

I've very disappointed in myself, and i know it was my problem with the diet that killed me. I tried to many things, and didnt figure out what to do and how to do it until after 6 weeks in...

i'm still very puzzled about this weight. Saturday I hit the scales at 201.6lbs Which means I didnt lose shit. Could this be the last effects of the FINA????

I'm at a loss...However if I can not reach my goal of 8%, my ultimate goal when i first started lifting was 200lbs at 10%. So as long as I reach one of those goals i'll be happy; I guess.

I will say, the mental aspect of a hard core diet is much much harder than anyone ever will realize until they do it!

I commend people like Mike XXL and LivinFit who can do it and look so damn good! I've been tired/anal/agitated/aggrivated and in general not a nice person due to the 2 a day's and diet and training regimn. I'm hoping to sit down for a day or two after this is over, and talk with MikeXXL or someone else about what i have done wrong, could have done different etc etc. So that I can re-set everything up, and hit yet another 12 weeks of diet/cardio...which will run me through summer and just up to the start of my next bulking cycle

Again, pics will be posted at the very very end April 3rd.

[KunipshunFit]

First we took the bf two ways...with the electrostatic, and then a 7 point caliper test

just to see how f'd up the eletrostatic was.

201.6lbs @ 5'7.5 23yrs old

electrostatic had me at 14.5%

7 point caliper results

Chest - 12.7
Bicep - 4.0
Tricep - 6.5
Back - 21.3
Ab - 12.0
Waist - 17.6
Thigh - 9.8

Total = 83.9
Total BF = 11.9857

[KunipshunFit]

I know i said i wasnt going to post pics until the end...

however, I took some LIMITED shots this morning, of my abs, and relaxed positions because I talked with Doc M and a few others who were going to check in on me.

I know i've lost about 16lbs, and I think (stresses the word THINK) that i've actually put on some muscle.

Opinions are sought...I've still got 3 weeks left, and I wont stop the diet until I reach my goal...


Pic 1
12/27/02 as compared to 3-12-03

[KunipshunFit]

front relaxed...

12-27-02 compared to 3-12-03

[KunipshunFit]

a poor quality upperbody relaxed...

[freak of the week]

Good work bro. Things are starting to happend quick!!!

[Doc M]

Kunip,

I am sitting here looking at your pics in my office with another Doc. I am going to attempt some digital marking on it so you can see what specific regions we discussed. I don't know how well this will work after copying it from this site so it may take some time.

Also, would you like me to PM you my thoughts or post it on the board? Let me know and I will accomodate either request.

And by the way, keep your head held high!! You have made great progress and that is not a "make you feel good about yourself" comment!

Doc M

[KunipshunFit]

pm please

if the pics arent good in quality, i can directly email you the originals which are at a much higher resolution and have not been cropped...

better detail in them! [email protected] if ya wanna do that..and also if ya wanna email me your thoughts, that is fine, so you can include your marked up recommendations/discussion thoughts...

also, i was running the Fina/Winny/Clen

Still got 3 weeks of Winny and 2 more of clen

Begining weight was 216, now i'm 201...so i feel like i've gained some muscle, and lost a bit of fat. I figure I've got another 10lbs or so to go before i'll be around 10%

[MIKE_XXL]

Shit Bro do not knock yourself down you have made some very nice progress...as for the rest of the stuff, "Welcome to dieting world"......i admire anybody that does through 12 week of any program, as it is some of the hardest shit anyone has to do...so hang in there and i will gladly help you after you had time to relax a bit, so just hit me up a line Bro...XXL

[painintheazz]

You have mad very good progress. It is very noticable. Good work.

Pain

[KunipshunFit]

...

[KunipshunFit]

weight

[jleighty17]

yeah bro give your self a break you made a huge change in your body.

like mike said just chill on the diet for a little bit then come back to it hard again.
JLI

[valerie]

Good job kunip- yep its a challenge but what a learning experince.!!!!!

One sugg for you to consider: when putting together a fat attack plan I find it most useful to get the full benefit or effect from diet first and then add in cardio and then eca or clen . Rather than starting off with all the "forces in full attack". In other words waiting until you hit a plateau before adding in the cardio. This seems to help get the most from your supps and hard cardio.

All in all a good job and what a cutie-valerie

[Doc M]

Well Kunip,

I know you wanted me to PM my response on your photos, but I honestly believe my post belongs here for everyone to hear.

I won't sugarcoat anything because it simply doesn't need to be. You have made great strides and your results and dedication are tremendous. Between your diet, supps, weight training, and the time you have spent on your progress notes, you need to be publicly commended by everyone. [Doc stands and applaudes]...

Seriously, you bodyfat reduction is significant. You have a bodyweight composition that is predisposed to hold a larger volume of fatty tissue around the midsection. You have reduced that area, which I might add is generally the most difficult area to reduce, to a far less fat composition. You are still holding a little in your lower and mid flanks, but this will more than likely always be your trouble area. I think if you relaxed a little on your intensity and diet, and then came back at it with some intensity, you could reduce this area even further.

I think you are at a sticking point right now. Take a little break after your cycle and continue with a clean diet and intense cardio and see where that takes you. We can't always get the ultimate result our first few times. At your age I think you only have more to achieve with your physique becuase you have one of the key components that many don't and that is dedication and heart. Keep us apprised!!

Doc M

[dam225]

Bump for an update.

D

[KunipshunFit]

update wanted...
update given

I'm fucking sick!!! Sinus infection, stomach virus. My diet has been shit! i cant keep anything fucking down! Everytime I eat, I throw up.. Everytime I manage to get something down for more than an hour, i get nausious and end up vomiting.

What really sucks is the throat hurting...nothing that i've tried so far helps it.

Last time i weigh'd in..i was 200.4 and i was looking better. I dont have a clue now...

This all hit me about 2 days ago...and has slowly progressed to this hell i'm in now.

Last time i took my temp, it was 100.2. I'm sitting here sweating my balls off, and cold as fuck!

Well it's 9:30, my time...and I would love to try to eat again....but i dont think i can handle another stomach cramp from puking tonight....

as far as the bet goes...it has another week...i'm not sure what this is going to do to me or it....

K'fit

[dam225]

Hang in there bro. I got the same shit in late January. It will be gone in a day or two and then it took me a week or two to get back to where I was before the virus. I feel ya.....the only thing I could get down for about 48 hours was gatorade!

Good Luck,
D

[MIKE_XXL]

Sorry to hear about your shitty luck Bro, but like said above hang in there no where but up to go from here...stay strong...XXL