Post Workout Question

[superpecker]

Hello everyone,

I currently take Cell-Tech (by muscletech) after my workout. It says to just take the supplement by it self. My question is, should I add Whey protein to my cell-tech, after my workout. Any advice I would be very happy. Thanks!

[saboudian]

NO, do not mix protein and creatine, it will negate the effects of the creatine.

[superpecker]

thanks

[BLaXuede]

sab are u a fukin idiot?

[decadbal]

yea, im wondering about that myself sab? everyone under the sun knows that mixin protein and creatine is the best way for the most uptake of creatine? where did you get your info at bro?

[bigol'legs]

Just my 2 cents.... 40 grams protein 80 grams simple carbs with creatine/glutamine. Thats for bulking, when im cutting I dont go more than 40 grams simple carbs. Shit I freak people out by eating Cotton Candy after workout hehe "thats how i get the abs" just to see some more shock 8), then mix the creatine and glutamine in the protein. I think im gonna search sab's posts to see what other "advice" hes given out.

[saboudian]

WOW, i musta missed this thread. I cannot beleive nor understand why you are calling me a fucking idiot. However i should rephrase my earlier statement. The effects of the creatine will not be negated but it will not absorb as easily or effectively.

When you mix creatine, dextrose and protein, the protein will lower the GI and interfere with the creatine absorption. Its hard to explain this in words but if you just think about whats happening, it makes sense. Remember, creatine jumps on the dextrose which is glucose which requires no digestion and immediately absorbs into the blood stream.

Like i said, its hard to explain in words, but just think about it.

Heck, if you look on a cell-tech container, it says that if you are also taking nitro-tech, you take cell-tech immediately pwo and wait 30-45 min to take the nitro tech. IMO you probably only need to wait 15 min or so after you down cell-tech to take the nitro tech, you want to give the creatine a chance to fully absorb before you throw down the protein.
Since it is also immediately pwo, your body will quickly uptake the creatine since your stomach should be empty and thirsty for nutrients. I beleive this is the main reason you take creatine immediately in the morning on off days.


Let me state this again, do not call me stupid, there is no reason for flaming. If you want to respond and tell me why it is better to mix protein and creatine, please do so, but calling me stupid will not solve anything nor help anyone.

[animal333]

If you are taking cell-tech, try V-12 by Sann. You will like alot more.

[bigol'legs]

Does red meat have less Creatine absorbtion because of the protein in the meat then? Im not flaming just trying to argue a point. It takes 3 pounds of red meat to = 5 grams of creatine (i eat 4 lbs when im bulking a day). I know theres more and more studies coming out for creatine but they all contradict each other. But ive always drank my protein along with creatine and I dont think it effects my absorbtion.

[dgee]

I've read articles that say take it by itself and others that say it is okay to take it with protein. Not sure which is right or most effective, but what Sab is saying does make sense though.

[Bigrig]

Just my 2 cents.... 40 grams protein 80 grams simple carbs with creatine/glutamine. Thats for bulking, when im cutting I dont go more than 40 grams simple carbs. Shit I freak people out by eating Cotton Candy after workout hehe "thats how i get the abs" just to see some more shock 8), then mix the creatine and glutamine in the protein. I think im gonna search sab's posts to see what other "advice" hes given out.

I thought I was the only one who eats cotton candy post-workout! Glad to see someone else thinks like me (I might as well enjoy my post-workout simple carbs, rather than choking down some sugar drink).

As far as consuming protein with creatine, Sab, your reasoning has some logic behind it but is not entirely accurate (a pretty common misconception actually). The problem is that glycemic index is only part of the equation. You must also consider the II, or insulin index. Whether you consume whey protein or not, the simple carbs in the post workout shake will cause insulin levels to skyrocket. Creatine does not "jump on the dextrose." Creatine uptake is increased by higher insulin levels. The dextrose is just the tool to accomplish these higher insulin levels. Adding whey protein will not significantly affect the amount of insulin secreted in response to the dextrose (or whatever simple carb you use).

I believe there has been at least one study performed that showed that adding protein to the post-workout shake did not inhibit creatin uptake in muscle cells. I will look around to see if I can find this study later today. But the bottom line is this - always take in whey protein, simple carbs, and creatine/glutamine following your workout. None of these nutrients will interfere with absorbtion or uptake of the others, and in fact, each will work synergistically to improve the effects of the others.

[bigol'legs]

Ya I normally consume a caffeine free pop post-workout for simple carbs but after 12-16 weeks cut down mmmmmmmmmm cotton candy 8)

[BigGreen]

This is intersting to hear as I've always followed Sab's approach somewhat. I take in my simple carbs and (when using it) creatine, then hop in the shower so that I have a fifteen minute window or so during which, I presumed, the uptake of the creatine (again, if using) and/or simple carbs would occur more efficiently than if the protein were present to lower the total GI of the "meal". I've always felt that worked better for me...but now this thread has me wondering.

[bigol'legs]

shower? 8) I take them all together get nice and bloated and wait 1 hr to get my soild food in. If I waited 15 minutes or even longer the 1 hr. after meal plus all the pills wouldn't go down to easy.

[saboudian]

Thank you for correcting me Bigrig on the insulin thing, i swear thats what i was thinking but my fingers thought otherwise i guess, but i'm glad you caught me.

For right now i still have to stand by my old stance, i still think the creatine will absorb quicker and more effectively when taken by itself and then waiting a few min before takin in the protein.

I did call muscletech a few weeks ago and asked them about this and i just got some idiot on the phone who only told me what is said on the bottle, take nitro-tech 30-45 min after cell tech (BTW i think 15min is all that is needed, unless you're worried about getting bloated). IDK, maybe I or someone could try givin them a call and try to force an explanation out of them. Otherwise i don't see why they wouldn't just say to mix nitro-tech and cell tech together if it was just as effective.

[bigol'legs]

ya call them and they'll tell you... "if you use more of both products it will be better for our pockets... opps i mean your health". The guys on the phone are prgrammed to say the same stuff over and over again I think.

[Bigrig]

Understand that companies such as MuscleTech do not necessarily recommend the most effective methods to take their own supplements. Many times when a supplement is released, the manufacturer does not have access to some of the most recent research on the product.

Since creatine has become popular, many studies have been performed to determine the mechanisms by which this supplement works. Initially, it was thought that since creatine was driven into muscle cells via a sodium powered pump that it would compete with other nutrients (such as glutamine) which are driven into cells by a similar pump.

However, recent research has revealed that creatine has its own specialized transport mechanism on the cell membrane. This transporter carries only creatine. Therefore, creatine uptake will be regulated by its own concentrations inside and outside the muscle cells, regardless of what other nutrients are present.

Insulin is a very anabolic hormone. It helps to drive many nutrients into the muscle cell. Whenever you finish an intense training session, you have created a significant need for amino acids to repair the muscular damage you have inflicted. You have also created the need for carbohydrates to replenish the glycogen stores you have depleted during the workout. By taking in simple carbs and protein together, you are putting your body in the best position to drive the protein into the muscle where it is needed to repair damage, and to drive the carbs into the muscle where it is needed to replenish glycogen. Delaying ingestion of either of these nutrients may inhibit the "optimal" utilization of that nutrient when it is finally ingested.

Keep in mind that I am not saying that my approach is the "best" approach. I am simply saying that based on current scientific evidence, this is the most logical approach. That doesn't mean that there is not more information out there to be discovered. If taking in these nutrients separately gives you better results, then by all means do it that way. Better yet, do it both ways for a period of 6-8 weeks each, and then make the determination as to which method works better.

[GetPsycho]

bigrig is right on the money. Stimulating insulin release will greatly enhance the transport and uptake of creatine into the muscle tissue where it is used to support the reproduction of ATP (energy) and enhance cell volume.

[RoNNy THe BuLL]

Here's a study and hopefully this will help clear things up...

Creatine power: seven ways to supercharge bodybuilding's number-one supplement even more. (Breaking Research).
Author/s: Brian Rowley
Issue: Sept, 2002

Improve the loading effect by increasing insulin

#3 Insulin improves creatine uptake into muscle. Taking 96 g of a high-glycemic-index carbohydrate such as dextrose (glucose) or even white bread improves creatine absorption dramatically by boosting insulin levels. However, a recent study found the same benefit when 50 g of dextrose was replaced with 50 g of protein. Therefore, the best strategy is to take creatine with simple carbs and a quickly digested and absorbed protein such as whey.

[Soardo]

OK, I'm reading here that some suggest taking their glutamine with the creatine/protein/carbs post-workout shake. I've been hearing/reading that glutamine and creatine compete for uptake resources (such as sodium) and as such have been separating the two.

I am nowtaking about 50g simple carbs/50g whey isolate/5-10g creatine post workout and then taking my glutamine an hour later with a meal. Any thoughts on this?

[Rsox1]

no do not tell me that the cell tech nitro tech "stack" isn't the greatest thing in bodybuilding history

[bigol'legs]

Soardo im my opinion its more important to take glutamine than it is creatine. You can naturally get creatine through red meat, but its not easy to supp. glutamine through food.

[Soardo]

Soardo im my opinion its more important to take glutamine than it is creatine. You can naturally get creatine through red meat, but its not easy to supp. glutamine through food.

I agree, Legs....although Glutamine can be found in some dairy sources I suppose like cottage cheese, it's a bit more difficult particularly when one avoids such sources (as some do).

However, I guess I'm not looking at whether to take one or the other, but just how to time them both so they are maximal in effect. Many post-workout drinks contain both, and I'm reading more and more that this may not be the way to take them - hence my separating. Just curious if others agree/disagree and why.

Thanks!

[BREASTMAN]

Yes you can take creatine and protein together and your best choice would be to add a naturally flavored whey to your Cell Tech to make a more complete post workout drink. You can also throw in some glutamine peptides as well.

[Soardo]

Yes you can take creatine and protein together and your best choice would be to add a naturally flavored whey to your Cell Tech to make a more complete post workout drink. You can also throw in some glutamine peptides as well.

I know I *can* do this, and essentially I do....my question was more along the lines of is it any more beneficial to separate the intake of creatine and glutamine by an hour or so?

Thanks!

[bigol'legs]

So that also posses another question then. Is it more imortant for you to take creatine or glutamine?

[Soardo]

So that also posses another question then. Is it more imortant for you to take creatine or glutamine?

I guess, in a sense, it does pose that question - not necessarily IF I should take them - I believe in both....but is separating them best and if so, which is best to take immediately post-workout and which is best delayed?

Personally, I think glutamine is the more important overall supplement. I typically take it several times a day (about 25 g total).

Thanks for the input,

Soardo