Cutting Diet....big swing between workout and non-workout days

[BigGreen]

In my signature you can link to my journal so that you might get a more clear idea of my goals, but I'll summarize briefly by saying that I'm constructing this diet with the hopes of getting into fitness model as opposed to bodybuilder contest-time shape. In other words, this does not need to bring me to 3-5% bodyfat, but rather 7-8% or so in my estimation. My diet varies somewhat drastically (relatively speaking) from workout days (monday/wed/saturday normally) and non-workout days. Every day, whether a workout or non-workout day is started with 45 minutes of cardio @ 70% MHR for 45 minutes on an empty stomach. Below are the breakdowns for each day. I am a creature of habit when I need to be, so this is, with very little deviation, what i eat day in and day out.

Workout Day:

Meal One: "homemade breakfast shake" (whey, oatmeal, etc) - 67g carbs, 57g pro, 9g fat for a total of 570 kcals.
Meals 3 through 7: every hour and a half during work an EAS low carb MRP bar for a total of 18g *impact* carbs (more on this later), 156g pro, 30g fat for a total-total of 1,250kcal
Meal 8: 4 whole eggs and 8 egg whites - 5g carbs, 53g pro, 20g fat for a total of 436 kcal
Meal 9 (PWO): PWO Shake - 108g carbs, 53g pro, 6g fat for a total of 700kcal
Meal 10: Can of tuna - 0g carbs, 37g pro, 2.5g fat for a total of 175kcal
Meal 11: Chicken Breast - 0g carbs, 24g pro, 2g fat for a total of 120kcal

Workout day total: 198g carbs, 379g pro, 70g fat for a total of 3261 kcal

Non-Workout Day

Meal One: "non-workout breakfast shake" (whey, etc) - 40g carbs, 52g pro, 6g fat for a total of 420kcals.
Meals 3 through 7: every hour and a half during work an EAS low carb MRP bar for a total of 18g *impact* carbs (more on this later), 156g pro, 30g fat for a total-total of 1,250kcal
Meal 8: 4 whole eggs and 8 egg whites - 5g carbs, 53g pro, 20g fat for a total of 436 kcal
Meal 9: Can of tuna - 0g carbs, 37g pro, 2.5g fat for a total of 175kcal

Non-workout day total: 63g carbs, 298g pro, 60g fat for a total of 2,291kcal

I realize that the workout day diet looks more like a clean bulk to most, but as I'm working in a physical laborer position for the summer, i think it's not only warranted, but needed. Thus far, it's paring the weight off at a nice even pace, and I think the 1,000 kcal swing from workout day to non-workout day keeps my body from adjusting. Perhaps as i get into the lower ranges of bodyfat I'll be forced to lower the workout day kcals and bring the two closer together, but for now at least it appears to be doing the trick.

Any critiques, suggestions, etc? I know i mentioned "impact carbs"....the bars i eat during the workday (and I have no choice...can NOT make real food work on this job in ANY capacity) contain 18g of carbs apiece, but only 3 are "impact" carbs. WHile I know waht impact carbs are and how they are supposed to relate to dietary needs, I'm wondering if they hold the same value with someone training for my goals as they do for a 40 year old accountant just trying to shed some weight for the fourth of july?

Any and all feedback appreciated. Thanks.

EDIT: I should mention that i'm running prop @100mg/day and don't believe that anything is really going to keep me from hitting up the fina @50mg/day in the very near future.

[daman1]

IN CAPS..

In my signature you can link to my journal so that you might get a more clear idea of my goals, but I'll summarize briefly by saying that I'm constructing this diet with the hopes of getting into fitness model as opposed to bodybuilder contest-time shape. In other words, this does not need to bring me to 3-5% bodyfat, but rather 7-8% or so in my estimation. My diet varies somewhat drastically (relatively speaking) from workout days (monday/wed/saturday normally) and non-workout days. Every day, whether a workout or non-workout day is started with 45 minutes of cardio @ 70% MHR for 45 minutes on an empty stomach. Below are the breakdowns for each day. I am a creature of habit when I need to be, so this is, with very little deviation, what i eat day in and day out.

Workout Day:

Meal One: "homemade breakfast shake" (whey, oatmeal, etc) - 67g carbs, 57g pro, 9g fat for a total of 570 kcals.

NEEDS TO BE PRO/FAT MEAL IF YOUR DOING CARDIO FIRST THING IN THE A.M.

Meals 3 through 7: every hour and a half during work an EAS low carb MRP bar for a total of 18g *impact* carbs (more on this later), 156g pro, 30g fat for a total-total of 1,250kcal

YOU NEEDS SOME FAT WITH PROTEIN. ALSO, I WOULD SCRAP THE PROTEIN BAR AND USE A BETTER SOURCE.

Meal 8: 4 whole eggs and 8 egg whites - 5g carbs, 53g pro, 20g fat for a total of 436 kcal

LOOKS OK..

Meal 9 (PWO): PWO Shake - 108g carbs, 53g pro, 6g fat for a total of 700kcal

NO FATS HERE. SIMPLE CARBS AND PROTEINS ONLY.

Meal 10: Can of tuna - 0g carbs, 37g pro, 2.5g fat for a total of 175kcal

NEED SOME COMPLEX CARBS HERE...

Meal 11: Chicken Breast - 0g carbs, 24g pro, 2g fat for a total of 120kcal

YOU NEED TO ADD SOME FATS HERE....

Workout day total: 198g carbs, 379g pro, 70g fat for a total of 3261 kcal

Non-Workout Day

Meal One: "non-workout breakfast shake" (whey, etc) - 40g carbs, 52g pro, 6g fat for a total of 420kcals.

NEEDS TO BE PRO/FAT MEAL IF YOUR DOING CARDIO FIRST THING IN THE A.M.

Meals 3 through 7: every hour and a half during work an EAS low carb MRP bar for a total of 18g *impact* carbs (more on this later), 156g pro, 30g fat for a total-total of 1,250kcal

SAME SUGGESTIONS AS ABOVE...

Meal 8: 4 whole eggs and 8 egg whites - 5g carbs, 53g pro, 20g fat for a total of 436 kcal

LOOKS OK. YOU NEED A SMALL PRO/CARB MEAL IN THIS MIX. BEST BET IS TO MAKE IT MEAL 8.

Meal 9: Can of tuna - 0g carbs, 37g pro, 2.5g fat for a total of 175kcal

NEED SLOW DIGESTING FAT HERE WITH TUNA

Non-workout day total: 63g carbs, 298g pro, 60g fat for a total of 2,291kcal

I realize that the workout day diet looks more like a clean bulk to most, but as I'm working in a physical laborer position for the summer, i think it's not only warranted, but needed. Thus far, it's paring the weight off at a nice even pace, and I think the 1,000 kcal swing from workout day to non-workout day keeps my body from adjusting. Perhaps as i get into the lower ranges of bodyfat I'll be forced to lower the workout day kcals and bring the two closer together, but for now at least it appears to be doing the trick.

Any critiques, suggestions, etc? I know i mentioned "impact carbs"....the bars i eat during the workday (and I have no choice...can NOT make real food work on this job in ANY capacity) contain 18g of carbs apiece, but only 3 are "impact" carbs. WHile I know waht impact carbs are and how they are supposed to relate to dietary needs, I'm wondering if they hold the same value with someone training for my goals as they do for a 40 year old accountant just trying to shed some weight for the fourth of july?

Any and all feedback appreciated. Thanks.

EDIT: I should mention that i'm running prop @100mg/day and don't believe that anything is really going to keep me from hitting up the fina @50mg/day in the very near future.

[BigGreen]

Daman...

I absolutely can NOT get away from the bars...they're the ONLY thing i can carry with me from job site to job site given the nature of my summer job...i could find a better bar or *maybe* isopure, but it's got to be REAL easy to physically carry in my pockets.

With regards to the first meal, if I'm doing cardio, that precludes carbs at the immediate post-cardio meal as I understand it...correct? I'm not doubting you in the least, and to get the feedback of smarter guys is why i posted that, but doesn't that go against the convention that you should start the day with a good mix of macronutrients to get the metabolism up and running?

I'm just a tad confused on that.....

[Farmer]

I as well had the conceptiona as well BigGreen. After many clarifications it seems the protein/fat meal is utilized after the cardio to keep the fat burning process "alive". If carbohydrates are taken in the body will switch gears per se and move on to its primary source. If that isn't correct I've been liveing a life of TOTAL lies

Peace

Farmer

[BigGreen]

I'll be revamping this later this afternoon....well, 'tweaking' I guess would be more accurate a term. PWO is easily remedied simply by returning to whey and dextrose only. Post-cardio I can easily scrap the shake and go the eggs and egg whites route to satisfy the "no carbs immediately after" rule.

The other suggestions are fairly easy to address through the inclusion of a complex carb (i'll probably go with brown rice as an all time favorite) where needed. A slow digesting fat for the last meal of the day has me somewhat curios as to what I could tack in there. Flax?? Or a whole food?

The only portion of Daman's excellent advice that I am having a very tough time remedying is the bar issue. Really, the only strategy that is even *remotely* doable, and even this would be hard, would be to simply mix six tiny drink containers every night with a scoop of whey and water so that I'd have six servings of a totally pure protein source....though then I'd be lacking the fats that he suggests...flax seed caps there as well to remedy? I think i could get away with carrying some flax seed capsules and six small nalgenes or something to that effect.

[BigGreen]

I as well had the conceptiona as well BigGreen. After many clarifications it seems the protein/fat meal is utilized after the cardio to keep the fat burning process "alive". If carbohydrates are taken in the body will switch gears per se and move on to its primary source. If that isn't correct I've been liveing a life of TOTAL lies

Peace

Farmer

So did you notice a big difference when you changed strategies in this regard??

[Farmer]

Noticing them as we speak bro..I can vouch for my first go at cutting a year ago. Everything happens so **** slow it is almost "faith" based on what kind've diet you are following. pro/fat after cardio is the way to go though, not looking into the matter to deeply it is kind of common sense.

Depending on how hungry you are for the last meal of the day I would say it depends. I usually throw down a protein shake with a tablespoon of flax and call it good. Sometimes some egg whites and turkey bacon, who knows!

Peace

Farmer

[bad_man]

The only portion of Daman's excellent advice that I am having a very tough time remedying is the bar issue. Really, the only strategy that is even *remotely* doable, and even this would be hard, would be to simply mix six tiny drink containers every night with a scoop of whey and water so that I'd have six servings of a totally pure protein source....though then I'd be lacking the fats that he suggests...flax seed caps there as well to remedy? I think i could get away with carrying some flax seed capsules and six small nalgenes or something to that effect.

BigGreen,

You don't eat six protein bars a day, do you? You say you'd need to make 6 drinks ahead of time so I'm making this assumption.

I'll also assume you have access to water, whether you carry it in a thermos or whatever. So you don't need to premix your shakes. Just put enough powder in a small tupperware bowl and bring your shaker along. Mix it as you need it. Or better yet, cook up some chicken breasts the night before.

As for the necessary fats, bring along a bag of almonds or walnuts or a small jar of natural peanut butter.

[GQSuperman]

doesn't allow you a lunch break? you should be able to get a real lunch during the day.

[daman1]

BigGreen,

You don't eat six protein bars a day, do you? You say you'd need to make 6 drinks ahead of time so I'm making this assumption.

I'll also assume you have access to water, whether you carry it in a thermos or whatever. So you don't need to premix your shakes. Just put enough powder in a small tupperware bowl and bring your shaker along. Mix it as you need it. Or better yet, cook up some chicken breasts the night before.

As for the necessary fats, bring along a bag of almonds or walnuts or a small jar of natural peanut butter.

Agreed.

[bad_man]

doesn't allow you a lunch break? you should be able to get a real lunch during the day.

Uh oh, I smell a communist.

[rambo]

Gaylord,

You need to stop eating bars. Those "non-impact" carbs are still carbs. Bars make you fat. Grab a shaker, toss some whey in there and carry some almonds, it doesn't take up more space than a bar, just grab water and shake.

I also think there are too many carbs in your PWO shake. You don't need 100. After a while I feel that insulin sensitivity changes, and that many carbs is not necessary. I would cut back to roughly half of that, and keep the protein the same. On your non-workout days 40g is too many carbs for breakfast. I would cut it back to 30, and you're all good- that's if you aren't doing cardio.

Daman got everything else.

[BigGreen]

doesn't allow you a lunch break? you should be able to get a real lunch during the day.

I landscape at an outfit that specializes in doing *very* high end homes: all multi-million dollar properties, some owned by some ridiculously famous people, etc...in that regard, the pressure to bust ass (not so much in terms of physical work itself, but getting stuff done) and skimp on lunches, breaks, and such is amazing. I'm not complaining because I wanted a somewhat challenging job to occupy me for the summer and the place pays absolute top dollar (as in 50% more than the next nearest outfit even to someone like me with no experience). I am, however, becoming more familiar with the atmosphere and getting a feel for when, how and where I can work in meals without 'rocking the boat'. If i feel it's interfering too much, i'll bail...i'm only working because i was sick of being the only one in my circle of friends to not be.

[BigGreen]

Okay, based on feedback, here's a rough sketch of what I've come up with. I'm actually very excited about this, as I've been getting very favorable results without the AAS and with the somewhat "off" diet i'd been using above. Looking forward to seeing what the juice in combination with the more refined diet is going to yield.

Workout Days:

4:45 a.m. - wake and perform morning cardio (45 mins @70% MHR)

6:00 a.m. - 4 whole eggs and 8 egg whites (hard boiled)

9:00 a.m. - whey and water mix along with yet-to-be-determined amount of almonds

12:00 p.m. - one and a half chicken breasts and 1/2 cup brown rice

3:00 p.m. - whey and water mix along with yet-to-be-determined amount of almonds

5:30/6:00 p.m. - WORKOUT

7:15 p.m. - PWO whey and dextrose shake (50g simple carbs/60g protein)

8:15 p.m. - can of tuna fish, 1/2 cup broccoli and 1/2cup brown rice

10:00 p.m. - thinking of a bedtime meal....is it necessary?

Non-Workout Days

4:45 a.m. - wake and perform morning cardio (45 mins @70% MHR)

6:00 a.m. - 4 whole eggs and 8 egg whites (hard boiled)

9:00 a.m. - whey and water mix along with yet-to-be-determined amount of almonds

12:00 p.m. - one and a half chicken breasts and tablespoon of natural peanutbutter

3:00 p.m. - whey and water mix along with yet-to-be-determined amount of almonds

6:00 p.m. - can of tuna fish and tablespoon of natural peanut butter

9:00 p.m. - chicken breast and yet-to-be-determined amount of almonds


Am I getting there now? I'll crunch the numbers to get some ratios and grams after my workout.

[daman1]

IN CAPS....

Okay, based on feedback, here's a rough sketch of what I've come up with. I'm actually very excited about this, as I've been getting very favorable results without the AAS and with the somewhat "off" <A TITLE="Click for more information about diet" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://www.prescriptions-r-us.biz/">diet</A> i'd been using above. Looking forward to seeing what the juice in combination with the more refined diet is going to yield.

Workout Days:

4:45 a.m. - wake and perform morning cardio (45 mins @70% MHR)

6:00 a.m. - 4 whole eggs and 8 egg whites (hard boiled)

9:00 a.m. - whey and water mix along with yet-to-be-determined amount of almonds

12:00 p.m. - one and a half chicken breasts and 1/2 cup brown rice

NEEDS TO BE PRO/FAT HERE

3:00 p.m. - whey and water mix along with yet-to-be-determined amount of almonds

5:30/6:00 p.m. - WORKOUT

7:15 p.m. - PWO whey and dextrose shake (50g simple carbs/60g protein)

8:15 p.m. - can of tuna fish, 1/2 cup broccoli and 1/2cup brown rice

10:00 p.m. - thinking of a bedtime meal....is it necessary?

IT IS NECESSARY. CASEIN PROTEIN AND FLAX IS PERFECT.

Non-Workout Days

4:45 a.m. - wake and perform morning cardio (45 mins @70% MHR)

6:00 a.m. - 4 whole eggs and 8 egg whites (hard boiled)

9:00 a.m. - whey and water mix along with yet-to-be-determined amount of almonds

12:00 p.m. - one and a half chicken breasts and tablespoon of natural peanutbutter

3:00 p.m. - whey and water mix along with yet-to-be-determined amount of almonds

6:00 p.m. - can of tuna fish and tablespoon of natural peanut butter

MAKE THIS SMALL PRO/CARB MEAL..

9:00 p.m. - chicken breast and yet-to-be-determined amount of almonds

LOOKS OK FOR FINAL SLOW DIGESTING PRO/FAT MEAL..

Am I getting there now? I'll crunch the numbers to get some ratios and grams after my workout.

[BigGreen]

Okay, looks like i'm getting there....

[TheChosenOne]

I disagree slightly with what Daman posted about your carb intake in your noon meal. By noon you will have had 6 hours worth of laborous activity under your belt and no carb intake. Therefore no muscle glycogen replacement. Try PMing guys that you know compete (Dangit, Mike XXL, Silverfox come to mind) because I have a feeling they have a slightly different approach to getting lean than the one that has been outlined. This is pure speculation but it doesnt hurt to ask. Daman I'm not knocking you plan by any means just advocating multiple approaches.