How Many Shakes??

**bigguy20** · 10-27-2007, 03:48 PM

im in the process of writing out my diet right now and im im trying to figure out my times for my protein shakes...im thinking of taking 3 per day right now...the first being in between breakfast and lunch...second one being between dinner and the gym, and the last shake post workout with dextrose..my question is i see alot of you guys saying not to have too many shakes in a day but i have trainers at the gym saying that they drink up to 5 shakes a day, whos right and whos wrong and why?? also is 3 shakes too much? ill be posting up my diet once i get it all together 100% for you guys to see.

**C_Bino** · 10-27-2007, 05:39 PM

Depends on your goals. Sure there are trainers at your gym saying it. Do you wanna look like those trainers? Well if you do then have yoru shakes but Im assuming they are not huge guys at all like most trainers in my experience.

I personally would never have more than 1 shake a day. Right now I have zero, 1 would be the most and that would be waking in the middle of the night and having one during sleep. I would NEVER put a shake in place of food and that includes post workout.

**bigguy20** · 10-27-2007, 05:55 PM

thats interesting...i wouldnt really be replacing any meals with it though it would more likely be in between meals, ill still be eating 5-6 whole meals a day..and i want to get as big as i possibly can really so i just want to do whatever it takes...i took some time off the gym and diet for about a month because of a bunch of issues i had to deal with.(broke off engagement with fiance).

**bigguy20** · 10-27-2007, 05:59 PM

actually this trainer is like one of the only ones that looked amazing, he was about 6 feet tall and 220lbs absolutely shredded...hes probably the only guy i would take advice from cause i know what you mean about all those wanna be big guys that try to give false info thinking they know what there saying.

**takedownII** · 10-27-2007, 06:46 PM

bro, drink as many shakes as you want, just make sure you're getting enough whole food too, as that is much more beneficial....

shakes are super easy and quick....it would be a shame not to utilize them somehow in your diet...

**C_Bino** · 10-28-2007, 05:33 PM

I dont understand the whole philosophy of taking a bunch of shakes, or wanting to get a ton of protein and get huge so just throw shakes in.

You only need a certain amount of cals in a day to grow, why not get them from real food? Throwing in shakes in top of that is just going to gain you fat. Sure shakes are great if you are on the road or somehow just cant get food. But if you have the time and know how many calories youd body requires why have a shake when you can have food?

**Prada** · 10-28-2007, 08:51 PM

As long as you are attaining you required macros, you will grow. Its not the number of shakes but your whole diet as a complete entity. Now if you can achieve these macros through food rather then supplementation then you will achieve the desired results more efficiently.

**NOZ** · 10-29-2007, 01:25 PM

Yes the trainers may drink 5 shakes a day (probably cos they are a little lazy)
But they would have better quality physiques if they had real food insted of so many shakes.
I would recommend 2 shakes per day. (one PWO and one last thing at night) and make up the rest of your diet with whole foods.

***BIG TEXAN*** · 10-30-2007, 08:58 AM

Stick with real food as much as possible...only resort to shakes if you absolutely have to...I can understand if your crunched for time so a shake is better than missing a meal all together.

**bigguy20** · 10-30-2007, 12:09 PM

ok what im going to do is still eat my 6 meals per day and im still going to have a pwo shake, a shake in between meals at work with olive oil just to boost calories a bit, and possibly a shake in the middle of the night. and just leave it at that for now and see how it goes. should i add olive oil to my pwo shake as well or should i leave it out??

**Amorphic** · 10-30-2007, 12:54 PM

when i first started bulking i would have three a day to get my calories through the roof, now i just have one post workout and eat more solid food.

***BIG TEXAN*** · 10-30-2007, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by bigguy20

ok what im going to do is still eat my 6 meals per day and im still going to have a pwo shake, a shake in between meals at work with olive oil just to boost calories a bit, and possibly a shake in the middle of the night. and just leave it at that for now and see how it goes. should i add olive oil to my pwo shake as well or should i leave it out??

Don't be putting ANY fats in your pwo shake or meal for that matter....

**sonnygll** · 10-30-2007, 03:36 PM

Ah here we go....

"Shakes are bad, eat solid food" squawks the parrots.

While different proteins are digested at different speeds, and you need several different complete sources. It is all one big shake when it reaches your small intestine for use.

So sure you can't just have whey all the time. You need some slower digesting proteins, but the form doesn't matter.

It's no like your body is going to be like "yuck, that amino acid came from a shake! I'm throwing that right in the colon!"

It's all about the right tool for the job at hand. And having the correct amounts and ratios of different macro-nutrients at the right times.

**liftin** · 10-30-2007, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by sonnygll

Ah here we go....

"Shakes are bad, eat solid food" squawks the parrots.

While different proteins are digested at different speeds, and you need several different complete sources. It is all one big shake when it reaches your small intestine for use.

So sure you can't just have whey all the time. You need some slower digesting proteins, but the form doesn't matter.

It's no like your body is going to be like "yuck, that amino acid came from a shake! I'm throwing that right in the colon!"

It's all about the right tool for the job at hand. And having the correct amounts and ratios of different macro-nutrients at the right times.

bullseye! shakes are a great tool.. those who say there not have NO CLUE what their talking about and will not prove me wrong.. why? bc I am living proof.. I got my leanest and looks my best while supplementing shakes.. min 3a day.. max 5.. nobody can tell me im doing something wrong bc i look great..

**kman** · 10-30-2007, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by liftin

bullseye! shakes are a great tool.. those who say there not have NO CLUE what their talking about and will not prove me wrong.. why? bc I am living proof.. I got my leanest and looks my best while supplementing shakes.. min 3a day.. max 5.. nobody can tell me im doing something wrong bc i look great..

I dont think the respected members on here who commented about shakes have NO clue what they are talking about, that was just out of line. As far as you getting your leanest using shakes, that probably would have been achieved with whole foods as well. Shakes have there place and are convient, but nothing beats whole foods!!!

**Amorphic** · 10-30-2007, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by sonnygll

Ah here we go....

"Shakes are bad, eat solid food" squawks the parrots.

While different proteins are digested at different speeds, and you need several different complete sources. It is all one big shake when it reaches your small intestine for use.

So sure you can't just have whey all the time. You need some slower digesting proteins, but the form doesn't matter.

It's no like your body is going to be like "yuck, that amino acid came from a shake! I'm throwing that right in the colon!"

It's all about the right tool for the job at hand. And having the correct amounts and ratios of different macro-nutrients at the right times.

3 a day worked for me. the only reason i cut down on them is because they;re so damn expensive and real food tastes better

**C_Bino** · 10-30-2007, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by sonnygll

Ah here we go....

"Shakes are bad, eat solid food" squawks the parrots.

While different proteins are digested at different speeds, and you need several different complete sources. It is all one big shake when it reaches your small intestine for use.

So sure you can't just have whey all the time. You need some slower digesting proteins, but the form doesn't matter.

It's no like your body is going to be like "yuck, that amino acid came from a shake! I'm throwing that right in the colon!"

It's all about the right tool for the job at hand. And having the correct amounts and ratios of different macro-nutrients at the right times.

LMAO...Im a parrot.

And you are what? 31 years old, 5'11 and 210 with 15% bf. Ok keep drinking your shakes and calling us parrots who all seem to be bigger than you, LMAO good stuff there.

I could TEAR apart what you said so easily. You clearly dont study nutrition nor bio-chemistry and molecular biology like I do. Its all one big shake when it gets to your small intestine (ever hear of thermogenisis?), the form doesnt matter (ever hear of protein denaturing?).

Anyways, for anyone who wants to keep drinking their shakes rather than having whole foods with MUCH BETTER amino acid profiles go for it. But dont EVER call me a parrot.

**Amorphic** · 10-30-2007, 06:51 PM

squawk squawk Bino

**C_Bino** · 10-30-2007, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by kman

I dont think the respected members on here who commented about shakes have NO clue what they are talking about, that was just out of line. As far as you getting your leanest using shakes, that probably would have been achieved with whole foods as well. Shakes have there place and are convient, but nothing beats whole foods!!!

BINGO my friend. Good post.

**C_Bino** · 10-30-2007, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Amorphic

squawk squawk Bino

Asshole lol.

**Amorphic** · 10-30-2007, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by C Bino

Asshole lol.

**liftin** · 10-30-2007, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by kman

I dont think the respected members on here who commented about shakes have NO clue what they are talking about, that was just out of line. As far as you getting your leanest using shakes, that probably would have been achieved with whole foods as well. Shakes have there place and are convient, but nothing beats whole foods!!!

my point! if i get the same results why not use something convinient and easy!!!!!

**DrBell** · 10-30-2007, 07:23 PM

Your small intestines can only digest 25-33 grams of protein per meal. Some literature says .08 grams per kilo. That is about 1 gram per 2.2 lbs right? Well not so good at math!

**C_Bino** · 10-30-2007, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by liftin

my point! if i get the same results why not use something convinient and easy!!!!!

Why do you think all bodybuilders cut shakes OUT of their diets going into cutting or competitions?

Eating whole foods creates much greates thermogenisis and actually allows you to burn more calories than having shakes so actually whole food is better for cutting than shakes, even if the calories are the same.

**sonnygll** · 10-30-2007, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

LMAO...Im a parrot.

And you are what? 31 years old, 5'11 and 210 with 15% bf. Ok keep drinking your shakes and calling us parrots who all seem to be bigger than you, LMAO good stuff there.

I could TEAR apart what you said so easily. You clearly dont study nutrition nor bio-chemistry and molecular biology like I do. Its all one big shake when it gets to your small intestine (ever hear of thermogenisis?), the form doesnt matter (ever hear of protein denaturing?).

Anyways, for anyone who wants to keep drinking their shakes rather than having whole foods with MUCH BETTER amino acid profiles go for it. But dont EVER call me a parrot.

ah, you must be the source then. The parrots have to get it from somewhere.

But sorry about the parrot thing. I can see you took that personally and it made you very angry.

Well I started lifting at 27. I didn't get serious until 28 though, and true bodybuilding came just about 3 years ago. When I was 27 I was atrophied from yo-yo diets and being a couch potato. I was about 260 about 49% bodyfat. I also discovered I had insulin resistance, which is like pre-diabetes. So I think I have done pretty well in that amount of time, with my genetics and starting point. I did most of it natural too. I have done only *ONE* cycle, test E 500/mg a week. The typical noob cycle.

I have a feeling you've been at it longer then me, with better genetics, a better starting point and much bigger cycle history.

I'm familiar with thermo-genesis. I don't see how the energy lost in heat during digestion has any relevance though. Those and other metabolic functions happen more in later stages of digestion anyway. But that's only as applied to food. As thermo-genesis is just the process of producing heat.

As for protein denaturing, I don't know that that quite fits. Unless you are going to argue that cooked food is better than raw food or something like that.

But hey, tear my argument apart. That's what I'm here for.

**sonnygll** · 10-30-2007, 11:03 PM

I see where you are going with the thermo-genesis now..... But still a couple of shakes, and only at the beginning stage in the stomach. That's not much. I tweak that much more by just lowering carbs.

Maybe if it was cutting on all liquid vs all solid. THEN you might have something. But you miss out on the pre and post workout where whey really helps.

Taking your argument further, you would do even better if you got all your protein from cheese. Since that is solid and casein, it would maximize it. But of course that would be silly.

**C_Bino** · 11-01-2007, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by sonnygll

I see where you are going with the thermo-genesis now..... But still a couple of shakes, and only at the beginning stage in the stomach. That's not much. I tweak that much more by just lowering carbs.

Maybe if it was cutting on all liquid vs all solid. THEN you might have something. But you miss out on the pre and post workout where whey really helps.

Taking your argument further, you would do even better if you got all your protein from cheese. Since that is solid and casein, it would maximize it. But of course that would be silly.

Not really. If we are talkin about calorie expenditure and turnin your body into a burning machine the fact that something is casein doesnt matter. Eating beef would cause much more thermogenesis than cheese would. Anyways, my point was made and I personally know what is better and hopefully other people will start to realize too, that if they want a top level body to be a competitive bodybuilder having 3 or like some people say even 5 shakes a day is just not going to get them that physique.

min 3a day.. max 5.. nobody can tell me im doing something wrong bc i look great

Like I said above if you just wanna have decent size and you arent into bodybuilding at a competitive level sure go with your shakes. But you looking great is subjective.

You cant say shakes work well because you look great. Any jow blow can say shakes are awesome cuz I look AMAZING...meanwhile the guy is 6' 200lbs with a six pack. Sorry but to me thats not great, thats looking like any average guy who doesnt even have a regular diet and trains for a beach body.

**sonnygll** · 11-01-2007, 05:08 AM

So taking a fast acting protein like whey pre and post workout isn't a good thing?

If you take casein does it not keep your blood levels of amino acids elevated for up to 7 hours if it came from a shake? Is it less anti-catabolic?

Money and personal preference are 2 good reasons against shakes. I don't see anything else in this thread though.......

I do actually know a really big guy that claims to drink 5 shakes a day. But I don't know about the solid meals, he didn't talk about that.

**C_Bino** · 11-01-2007, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by sonnygll

So taking a fast acting protein like whey pre and post workout isn't a good thing?

If you take casein does it not keep your blood levels of amino acids elevated for up to 7 hours if it came from a shake? Is it less anti-catabolic?

Money and personal preference are 2 good reasons against shakes. I don't see anything else in this thread though.......

I do actually know a really big guy that claims to drink 5 shakes a day. But I don't know about the solid meals, he didn't talk about that.

There are other reasons. Whole food is healthier for your body and contains more nutrients, the amino profile of whey isnt that great compared to other meats, and read some medical journals on the absorption rates of whey protein when ingested by humans. Some conclude your body assimilates maybe 25% of it. Getting protein via a liquid form like whey will not allow you to assimilate all of it. If people want to use whey post workout I suggest they take in maybe 25g and then get the rest from real foods.

**sonnygll** · 11-01-2007, 07:43 PM

The amino profile of whey is very good, real heavy on the BCAA's. And yes whey absorption is very fast, which is just the point. You get a big spike in amino acids very quickly, especially when combined with carbs. It's quite anabolic .

Whey can be assimilated as well as anything else. However the caveat is because of the fast digestion, a mega dose of it won't do any better then a moderate one. However with meat the slower absorption allows you to take in more at a time.

Then there is casein in shake form (because how much cheese can really eat?), which is very slow. It keeps a slow steady supply of amino acids all night. Especially if you have some cheese with it as the fats slow it further.

I really don't think this is a black and white issue. The all or nothing good/bad just doesn't make sense. It really looks like it is a "right tool for the right job" kind of thing. I really don't see what's wrong with supplementing a diet with different protein extractions, vitimins, minerals and things like that.

Then what about protein bars? Those are solid and supplements.

I really think it's each individual situation that makes a protein choice good or bad. Sure there are more situations where some kind of meat is the best choice. But that doesn't invalidate the use of protein supplements.

**RoughNck821** · 11-02-2007, 10:12 AM

Now that we all know your opinions on shakes... What brands do you prefer... Muscle Milk, Nitro Tech, etc...???

**sonnygll** · 11-02-2007, 12:28 PM

The whey I usually get is 6 Star from Walmart. Good quality and a low price. The Body Fortress stuff looks about as good and it's a little cheaper. The casein I get on ebay. The brand is ON. I wouldn't spend a lot of money on it. A lot of supplement stores have ridiculous mark ups. Then if you need carbs with it, just add it separate.

**RoughNck821** · 11-02-2007, 12:43 PM

Awesome sonny, thank you i appriciate it!

**moush** · 11-04-2007, 07:13 PM

i like using whey preworkout with an apple, and post workout (25g) mixed with whole foods such as ground turkey and eggs, and prebed (casein) with 1.5 tablespoon of natural ***** 3 PB