Please Explain This To Me

[Twist]

Why do people feel that they should omit carbs from the last meal and replace it with fat? In fact, other than on a keto diet, why would anyone want a fat content of 20% or more? I see pb before bed in everyones diet, but no carbs... WHY?

[im9boss]

i'm guessing.......since its the last meal of the day, there is less energy demand late at night, it is an oppertunity for hi carb, low fat dieters to fit in some healthy fats in their diet. and also to slow the breakdown of protein through the night....?

[gbrice75]

i'm guessing.......since its the last meal of the day, there is less energy demand late at night, it is an oppertunity for hi carb, low fat dieters to fit in some healthy fats in their diet. and also to slow the breakdown of protein through the night....?

These are exactly the reasons I do it, well said.

Twist, I thought you were a proponent of higher fat / lower carb diets??

[Twist]

I am a fan of carb cycling. Not a fan of keto at all, in fact I hate it (think it will have long lasting consequences). However, other than slowing down the digestion of protein, I see no good reason to put high fat meals close to bed.

Likelihood that fat will be stored as fat = high
likelihood that carbs will be stored as fat = low
Likelihood that protein will be stored as fat = low

Carbs and protein SPARE fat in the diet to be stored as fat, carbs and protein get turned to fat stores only if fat in the diet is really low. So basically if you are trying to lose weight, have a fat macro percentage of no more than 20% but no less than 12ish, 10 is the lowest.

However if fat fits into the diet breakdown, you can put it in all at night, but carbs are perfectly ok to have at night. Just don't see the reason to not eat carbs at night since fat is a lot more likely to be turned to fat than carbs or protein is.

[Hsheer]

I've been asking my self the same question, i hope some one will reply

[dominick2417]

Likelihood that fat will be stored as fat = high
likelihood that carbs will be stored as fat = low
Likelihood that protein will be stored as fat = low

However if fat fits into the diet breakdown, you can put it in all at night, but carbs are perfectly ok to have at night. Just don't see the reason to not eat carbs at night since fat is a lot more likely to be turned to fat than carbs or protein is.

I think you are not quite grasping the concept of a Keto diet. The diet is based on fats in order that your body does not need to store fat. If you have a constant influx of fat there is no reason for you body to store it. Likewise, if you spend 50K a year and make 100K you have not much incentive to save extra because you will have a constant influx of money.

Carbs are not always ok at night. Some people can not eat carbs indiscriminately without negative effects. If you spike insulin before bed you are pretty likely to store some fat. Since fat does not spike insulin like carbs, eating fat before bed makes you less likely to store the fat. All healthy fats, of course.

[FireGuy]

^^Eating the right carbs in the right amount will not spike your insulin .

[gbrice75]

LoL I just gotta say it - i'm so sick of all this $hit! What ever happened to just eating a smart, healthy balanced diet high in protein, moderate carbs and fat or moderate carbs/low fat and working your ass off in the gym? Way too much overthinking going on sometimes IMO!

[Twist]

I think you are not quite grasping the concept of a Keto diet. The diet is based on fats in order that your body does not need to store fat. If you have a constant influx of fat there is no reason for you body to store it. Likewise, if you spend 50K a year and make 100K you have not much incentive to save extra because you will have a constant influx of money.

Carbs are not always ok at night. Some people can not eat carbs indiscriminately without negative effects. If you spike insulin before bed you are pretty likely to store some fat. Since fat does not spike insulin like carbs, eating fat before bed makes you less likely to store the fat. All healthy fats, of course.

Bold - of course... Many people can't eat anything indiscriminately. But we are talking about people who are watching their diet.

My post had nothing to do with keto other than me saying that I don't believe keto is a good idea. I know about keto and the reasons some people think its a good idea to do it, I just think that it will have many lasting effects on your body much like a period of starvation. Anytime you **** with the chemical makeup of your body you are bound to have issues. And I'm sorry but when your throat and tongue smell so bad because of a shitty diet (no carbs), there are going to be consequences.

What I am saying is that fat is EASILY stored as fat, however if you ate extra carbs (above what you burned), it is not necessarily going to be stored as fat; in fact, if it is a moderate amount there is a good chance nothing will happen at all.

If you spike insulin in a very low fat meal, then you will most likely not store any fat.


Let me explain this:
carbs spare protein and fat. What I mean by this is when you eat carbs your body will be able to use protein to build muscle and use fat to create fat stores. If you eat a diet of moderate fat (12-20%), your body will not want to break down carbs to store as fat. It is only when you have a diet that consists of lower than 10% fat that your body feels the need to break down carbs and protein for fat store replenishment.

Ok so here is an example:
You eat 40g carbs, 20g fat and 40g protein. This is also your perfect tdee and you burn 100% of what you eat and you don't gain or lose any weight at all from this diet. Ok, so let's proceed. --> You now one day eat 100 calories over your tdee in CARBS. And you DO gain fat. The reason for this is NOT because the excess carbs were stored as fat, the reason is because the excess carbs SPARED 100 calories from the 20g fat from your diet to be stored as fat. So instead of burning 40g carbs and 40g protein and 20g fat, you burned 65g carbs, 40g protein and you burned only 9g fat, resulting in the other 11 grams of fat to be stored.

I hope that clears things up.

[Twist]

LoL I just gotta say it - i'm so sick of all this $hit! What ever happened to just eating a smart, healthy balanced diet high in protein, moderate carbs and fat or moderate carbs/low fat and working your ass off in the gym? Way too much overthinking going on sometimes IMO!

I am right there with ya man. I believe the splits should look something like this
30% complete protein
10% good fat
5% allowed for bad fat
20% starchy carbs
35% carbs from veggies

= 30%p, 55%c, 15%f

[gbrice75]

I am right there with ya man. I believe the splits should look something like this
30% complete protein
10% good fat
5% allowed for bad fat
20% starchy carbs
35% carbs from veggies

= 30%p, 55%c, 15%f

So do you think a 40/40/20 split isn't ideal? BTW - i'm currently running a VERY low carb diet (not keto) - getting 50g from oats, some scattered carbs from shakes, milk in my coffee, etc. and then the rest is just fiberous veggies. I don't think i'm getting more than 100g/day. Fat is around 65g. protein is around 250g.

Do you think that's a mistake?

[Twist]

So do you think a 40/40/20 split isn't ideal? BTW - i'm currently running a VERY low carb diet (not keto) - getting 50g from oats, some scattered carbs from shakes, milk in my coffee, etc. and then the rest is just fiberous veggies. I don't think i'm getting more than 100g/day. Fat is around 65g. protein is around 250g.

Do you think that's a mistake?

40/40/20 is fine if you are counting all protein taken in, including sources like beans etc. But if you are counting all complete protein, I don't see a need to be above 30% (without aas). That being said, 40% is not a big deal. In fact 50% is not a big deal either. Just that I don't think it is very useful and a waste of money. I put the emphasis on the carbs because they are the most essential source. Here's some food for thought:
People who get about 6.5 - 7 hours of sleep per night live longer than people who sleep for more.
People who eat 60% of their "tdee" live longer
People who consume very little protein live longer (think the number was 30g per day, but not sure)

We, the people on this board, are trying to gain size though. So we need to eat more. But if you are looking at a health and longevity point of view, being skinny (sometimes super skinny) makes you live much longer.

GB: I think as long as you are taking in some carbs you will be ok. See how it works for you for a month and then change it. Don't hop from diet to diet, that is where you will cause harm to your body. Healthy fats are very important and play a vital role. Consume less calories than you need and you will burn fat. Don't do Low intensity cardio if you are above 15%bf, don't eat shitty food, and have a great workout schedule and you will do well. Wish you were close to where I live so I could work with you on reaching your goals

[gbrice75]

40/40/20 is fine if you are counting all protein taken in, including sources like beans etc. But if you are counting all complete protein, I don't see a need to be above 30% (without aas). That being said, 40% is not a big deal. In fact 50% is not a big deal either. Just that I don't think it is very useful and a waste of money. I put the emphasis on the carbs because they are the most essential source. Here's some food for thought:
People who get about 6.5 - 7 hours of sleep per night live longer than people who sleep for more.
People who eat 60% of their "tdee" live longer
People who consume very little protein live longer (think the number was 30g per day, but not sure)

We, the people on this board, are trying to gain size though. So we need to eat more. But if you are looking at a health and longevity point of view, being skinny (sometimes super skinny) makes you live much longer.

GB: I think as long as you are taking in some carbs you will be ok. See how it works for you for a month and then change it. Don't hop from diet to diet, that is where you will cause harm to your body. Healthy fats are very important and play a vital role. Consume less calories than you need and you will burn fat. Don't do Low intensity cardio if you are above 15%bf, don't eat shitty food, and have a great workout schedule and you will do well. Wish you were close to where I live so I could work with you on reaching your goals

Me too brutha, like you wouldn't believe!

[BIG_GUNS_21]

I think a lot of people get cought up making diets to complex as well. Personally I like the balanced diet idea. Higher in protein and carbs than fats and the weight loss comes with the deficet in over all calories. I remember going to a seminar with Dorian Yates as the guest speaker and he said his diet is all based on Calorie deficet. Even when competeing for top shows if he wanted a candy bar he would have one occasionally (in contest prep but ofcourse not really close to the show) and count it into his daily def. I think he did alright with that method...

[Twist]

idk if any bbers use keto. I would doubt it but you never know. I mean shit theres a vegan bber so...