Best Complex Whey / Gainer with minimal fat content??

**rockport** · 12-02-2010, 07:57 AM

All,

I know there are endless threads out there with view of everyone's personal preference to which whey supplement people prefer.. but my criteria is this..

What weight gain product can give me the best complex carbs with minimal sugar content for the money? Im a big follower of "optimal nutrition'" there complex gainer is as follows

Per 100g
36g Protein
51g Carb
5.1g Sugars

Tastes nice but is fairly expensive (relatively) and have been using this on/off for years.

Recently i've moved on to "Sci Mentor MassGainer 5000"

Per 100g
36g Protein
53g Carb
6.5 Sugars

despite the additional 1.5g increase in sugar it tatses just as good as "ON", mixes just as good, comes with a shedload of animo's that ON dont, and is also 1/3 cheaper!

Anyone care to add any gainers that offer better value for money or content?

**gbrice75** · 12-02-2010, 11:23 AM

How about this - forget weight gainers and eat real food! Not being a d!ck, I know that sounds sarcastic. But powders and weight gainers are crap. Protein powders are good PWO, and acceptable 1st thing in the morning, or before bed (casein) but you shouldn't rely on anything as a 'weight gainer'. They will do about 1/4 of what real food will for you. Thermogenesis is almost non-existent with powders and such. Eat good quality food and watch yourself grow!

Sounds like you need to get your diet in check, not research weight gainers. Get yours posted and we'll help you sort it out!

**gbrice75** · 12-02-2010, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by rockport

gbrice75, I admire people who tell it how it is, fairplay! lol.

Thanks for offering to help. Your right i do need help, my Diet is as follows.

9am - 1cup of oats with skimmed milk, drop of honey + 1scoop of whey protein
11am - banana
12am - 200g smoked salmon (squeeze of lemon) + 175g of cooked brown rice
1pm gym, 1scoop of whey post workout.
3pm tin of tuna (130g) + 175g cooked brown rice
7pm cooked chicken, potato + veg.
11pm 100g whey (53g carb, 36g protein)

I'm 6,1, weigh 191lbs. This is a major achievement for me, 6yrs ago i was 135lbs! (see befor pic) I stuggle to put on size. I've uploaded a more recent pic to give you some idea. Since the more recent pic (6months old) i've put on around 5lbs in mixture of muscel and sadly alittle fat too. I find it hard to get the balance right sometimes, its been hard.. i have a very fast metabolism - not making excuses.. i understand i need to eat more but its knowing whats good/bad.

Any info you can provide gbrice75? Obviously i need to get this sorted before i can move the game up a notch - am i far off?

Cheers!

First, great job on the gains - MAJOR difference, obviously. You were a string bean! Now, you just need to start eating more of them. =)

The diet is pretty poor if i'm being honest. It can use alot of work, but I don't think it's worth fixing - it needs a complete overhaul IMO. Follow a few simple rules:

* 6-8 small meals/day
* lean protein source in every meal (your banana only meal is a joke)
* complex carb or healthy fat in every meal - keep these separate as much as possible. I like to do carbs in the first half of my day, and then give way to fats towards the end. Pre/PWO should be carbs however.
* endless leafy green/fiberous veggies

I'd estimate your maintenance calories around 2300 - based on 18% bodyfat (that's my guess from your pic) and the stats you provided. This is a rough estimate at best, and will definitely need adjusting. I believe you should start at around 2000 calories/day and LOSE weight - that's right, you need to cut. You actually put on some decent muscle mass, I can see that - but it's covered by bodyfat. You'd look much better at an appreciable bodyfat (12% or less) and it will be easier to add LEAN mass at that point, eating the right foods at the right times. (I started a bulk at 15% bodyfat and wasn't happy with the results - you are higher bf then I was at that time).

Use the info above, as well as the info below to come up with a new diet, then post it up here for help. Base it on 2000 calories/day, and start with a 40/40/20 (P/C/F) split. That will be easy to adjust from there if need be.

Pls include all macro nutrient info for each meal (protein/carbs/fat/total calories) so we can see how much you're eating. This is VERY important, otherwise it's all guessing. Also, get your bodyfat tested so we can come up with a more accurate number. Any decent gym should be able to do a skin fold caliper test.

Thanks to Damienm05 for putting the below packet together:
__________________________________________________ __________

In terms of food choices, here goes:

I love analogies. Let’s use a good one. Think of your perfect body as a house that you must build. You’ve figured out your BMR and TDEE, so you know the exact specs of the property you have to work with. You know how exercise affects weight loss and how much of a caloric deficit/surplus we must create to lose/gain said weight; so you know how to build - you understand architecture. You also know the pace you intend on losing/gaining weight at based on these other factors, so you know it will be harder to get your house built in weeks as opposed to months. The only thing left is the tools/building material you must use and because you don’t know how to eat, you still can’t build anything. At least, not well. Sure, you can starve yourself for a few months but you’ll just gain all the weight back in a couple weeks of binge drinking and shitty eating on a vacation – you’re house will fall down!

So, let’s talk tools baby. Let’s talk food. First off, there are only 3 types of foods/macronutrients. Protein. Carbohydrates. Fat. That’s it.

Protein – 4 calories per gram - Building material. Bricks. You can’t gain energy from protein, you can only use it to build muscle/skin/hair/nails. It’s basically just amino acids and it’s what our bodies are made of. As such, we need lots of it. 1g of protein per body lb is a good number to shoot for . Go as high as 2g per body lb if you’re lifting weights and trying to build muscle. For example, I am 207 lbs and I eat between 300-400 grams per day. Our body can only break down so much at one time however, so we want to eat 20-40 grams of protein in every meal, several times per day. Protein, being building material only and not energy/labor – the body can rarely find a reason for it to be stored as fat. If you must over-eat – make it lean meat/fish.

Carbs – 4 calories per gram - Think of these as human labor for your house. Think of sugar as dudes you pick up out front of home depot and oatmeal as a skilled carpenter. Both are carbs, both serve very different purposes. Carbs help transport essential nutrients to the muscles, create glycogen stores, and as such, increase protein synthesis but do not build muscle; they are simply an energy source. As such, they should only be eaten/used when we need energy. Any carbs we ingest before bed or before watching a movie, or something sedentary are not used as energy, and as such, are more likely to be stored in the body as glycogen (glucose/water in our muscles that we will use when doing high-intensity exercise). Once our glycogen reserves are full, they will spill over and be stored as fat. Yes, they will make you fat. Carbs can be your best friend or your worst enemy.

Fats – 9 calories per gram - Like carbs, fats are an energy source, not a building material like protein. They provide nowhere near as much energy as carbs however. Ask anyone who's on a ketogenic diet. With regard to our house, think of fats as the glue/cement. They provide much needed essential fatty acids, which are great for joint/organ health and increase our protein synthesis. Going back to our analogy, cement/glue increases the effectiveness of bricks! If we give our bodies the right fats, it will be able to burn stored body fat quickly as it won’t see any use in keeping it. Remember, like carbs – not all fat is good and ALL fat is high in calories so watch out. A tablespoon of peanut butter can be a good addition to a meal. Snacking on 5-6 tablespoons, however, means you’ve just eaten over your TDEE for the day.

Acceptable proteins for your healthy lifestyle diet:

The goal is to eat lean protein. Meats/other sources low in fat/carbs.

§ Ground beef (93% lean or better)
§ Lean steak (Flank, flat iron, or top sirloin)
§ Bison sirloin (the highest quality red meat)
§ Chicken breast
§ Turkey breast
§ Tuna (canned or sushi grade)
§ Salmon
§ Tilapia (mostly all white fish)
§ All shellfish
§ Venison
§ Whey protein (post-workout recovery purposes only)
§ Casein/Cottage cheese (before bed only)

Black-List Protein sources. Do not eat these because they are high in fat. And not the
good kind we find in nuts and olive oil – I’m talking about cholesterol raising saturated
fat!

§ Bacon
§ Sausage
§ Expensive fat-marbled Steaks (Ribeye, Strip, Filet)
§ Pork and beef ribs
§ Pork/Lamb chops
§ Restaurant ground beef (80/20 fat – most burgers)
§ Duck
§ Chicken legs/thighs
§ Chicken skin
§ Cheese

Acceptable Carbs for your healthy lifestlyle:

Complex carbs are now your creed. These are slower-digesting, natural, low on the glycemic index carbohydrates that digest slowly and provide us with sustained energy. They do not drastically affect our blood sugar and do not cause insulin spikes. Thus our body sees no reason to store them as fat, it would rather burn them for energy. Simple carbs such as enriched white breads/pastas/rice/potatoes/sugars (including most fruit) cause insulin spikes and are high GI foods. They should not be eaten when on a strict diet. Fruit can be consumed early in the day or pre/post-workout because of it’s high nutritional value but should usually be avoided due to being a form of simple sugar. Remember, healthy, low-calorie foods aren’t always the correct foods and such is the case with fruit.

§ Oats/Oatmeal
§ Grits/Cornmeal
§ Unsalted/non-buttered popcorn (great, low-cal snack)
§ Sweet potato (the best choice)
§ Butternut squash
§ Whole wheat pasta (not enriched)
§ Organic whole wheat bread (not enriched wonder bread crap)
§ Brown rice
§ Ezekiel bread
§ Swedish grain bread
§ Gluten free bread
§ Wheat couscous
§ Corn
§ Quinoa
§ Lentils
§ Beans
§ Many more, look up the GI (glycemic index) for healthy choices

Black List:

§ White pasta
§ White bread
§ Baguette
§ Bagels
§ Cookies, cake, muffins, cupcakes, all sweets basically.
§ White couscous
§ White rice
§ You get the idea…

Don’t get discouraged upon reading this list. I still make desserts all the time with whole
grain flour and splenda. I buy bagels and baguettes at the health food store that use
complex carbs as a base. If you’re dedicated, you don’t have to miss out 100%

Acceptable fats for your healthy lifestyle:

We look for fat sources that are high in omega-3, 6, and 9 fatty acids. Also, many are high in protein. We do not want saturated fats such as butter, cream, meat fat. We don’t want test tube fats like trans (the worst). We want mono/polyunsaturated fats that our body can use for something other than calories. Remember, even good fats are high in calories.

§ Natural peanut butter (no sugar added, just roasted peanuts)
§ Natural almond butter
§ Cashews
§ Almonds
§ Peanuts
§ Flax seeds
§ Flax seed oil
§ Salmon and Trout (great fatty proteins)
§ Fish oil
§ Extra virgin olive oil (should be used on all veggies/salads)
§ Chia seeds
§ Grapeseed oil
§ Macadamia nut oil

Acceptable miscellaneous foods:

These foods don’t provide much as far as macronutrients but are great for adding vitamins/minerals and taste. Notice some of these other foods are dairy. Dairy is another animal’s milk. We lack the enzymes to digest it as they do and it’s high in fat/sugar. It should only be eaten early in the day for nutrient purposes with the exception of whey and casein (cottage cheese).

§ Skim milk (Hood brand is only 45 calories and 3g of sugar per cup)
§ Greek yogurt (no sugar added)
§ Berries (all berries are much lower in sugar than other fruits and packed with fiber/nutrients – eat berries)
§ Green Vegetables. These are technically carbs but they are packed with fiber (a type of carb that isn’t used as energy or stored). In bodybuilding/nutrition – we refer to most vegetables as fibrous carbohydrates. While a serving of Broccoli may have 6g of carbs, 5 are from fiber. Meaning that it contains only 1g of storable carbohydrates. In addition, green vegetables are a calorie neutral/negative food (our body uses more calories to digest them than they contain – think celery). Veggies should be eaten with every meal. Every day. If you do this, you can become almost impervious to getting sick. Some vegetables are better than others for healthy diets.
§ Many non-green vegetables. Most are fine – just check labels, some have a good bit of sugar and should be eaten in moderation only (carrots)

**rockport** · 12-02-2010, 06:18 PM

Well.. it would appear that your the man to talk when it comes to food around these parts. Pretty impressive reply, really appricate your time out on this one gbrice75. I'll print this thread out tomorrow, study and put something together for review.

I think your bang on regarding my body fat, i was thinking 16% - 20%. A steeper hill then i first thought but atleast im near to the right tracks. It feels such an achievement to get where i am from "string bean" status as you put it - lol.. Im really looking forward to stepping it up.

Cheers fella! Will keep you posted once i'm done with the figures. Good post, and keep up the inspiration to others - its a big help!

**rockport** · 12-02-2010, 10:20 PM

gbrice75, I admire people who tell it how it is, fairplay! lol.

Thanks for offering to help. Your right i do need help, my Diet is as follows.

9am - 1cup of oats with skimmed milk, drop of honey + 1scoop of whey protein
11am - banana
12am - 200g smoked salmon (squeeze of lemon) + 175g of cooked brown rice
1pm gym, 1scoop of whey post workout.
3pm tin of tuna (130g) + 175g cooked brown rice
7pm cooked chicken, potato + veg.
11pm 100g whey (53g carb, 36g protein)

I'm 6,1, weigh 191lbs. This is a major achievement for me, 6yrs ago i was 135lbs! (see befor pic) I stuggle to put on size. I've uploaded a more recent pic to give you some idea. Since the more recent pic (6months old) i've put on around 5lbs in mixture of muscel and sadly alittle fat too. I find it hard to get the balance right sometimes, its been hard.. i have a very fast metabolism - not making excuses.. i understand i need to eat more but its knowing whats good/bad.

Any info you can provide gbrice75? Obviously i need to get this sorted before i can move the game up a notch - am i far off?

Cheers!

**Big Rob78** · 07-04-2012, 02:44 AM

I really like this thread, thank you all for your posts. I completely agree with the diet being the foundation of a good life style, but I do enjoy a good Gainer Shake. I sip on one during my workout to keep the nutrients coming in….keeps me from fading out at the end of my workout. My favorites have been Dymatize Elite Mass, Supper Mass, Vanilla Russian Bear (1/5 serving mixed with Vanilla Whey Isolate & orange or raspberry emergenC), & ON Pro Complex Gainer(Which I don’t buy anymore because it is became so expensive!). As most of us know, Supplements are designed to “Supplement” with an already good diet. The powders are supposed to absorb quickly and not bog down your digestive system, though the crappy sups do. Most gainer shakes ive used have had 55-60 grams of protein(Whey isolate then whey concentrate and the other slower proteins) 77-200 grams of good carbs (Fast and slow carbs) over 12 grams of BCAA’s, over 9 grams glutamine, 600+ calories…I stay rather lean wile taking these things the way I do. I always have a six pack as long as I eat clean.
Any thoughts out there?