lifting for about 3 years, cut or bulk!?..

**williams1337** · 08-23-2012, 02:58 PM

Hey all!
Well as the title suggests iv been lifting for a while, only recently started to look into the nutrition side..
I have built up some mass, but I'm undecided weather going forward I should bulk or cut.
so if you could give me some advice id be very greatful,
Any guesses on body fat? (Id say 10%)
Also stats;
5ft 8
186lb
Office job..

Iv read the usual stickies so once I'm decided on cutting or bulking ill calculate my tdee, and post my macros for the experts to critique!

Also any feedback, parts I should focus on etc would be appreciated!
Thanks all!

**--->>405<<---** · 08-23-2012, 07:00 PM

hey man welcome. first off let me say u look pretty good now! imagine with proper diet (assuming its less than proper now) how much better u can be!

u could go either way IMO. if ur happy with ur size and wanna learn how to cut ur bf% down into lower single digits then i say cut. id say 10% is pretty close to where ur at give or take.

**stpete** · 08-23-2012, 08:26 PM

Lookin good. Keep up the good work.

**Razor** · 08-23-2012, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

hey man welcome. first off let me say u look pretty good now! imagine with proper diet (assuming its less than proper now) how much better u can be!

u could go either way IMO. if ur happy with ur size and wanna learn how to cut ur bf% down into lower single digits then i say cut. id say 10% is pretty close to where ur at give or take.

Ditto on that!! Great job man, look thick and cut! And you look over 210 to me. So great job.

**williams1337** · 08-24-2012, 02:32 AM

Thanks for your kind comments.

405, Thx for confirming my 10% bf guess.

My main concern with bulking is the additional fat gain, as 10-12% would be the highest bf id be happy with. So given that and also the fact iv got an holiday end of oct I think I Will go on a steady cut. Hopefully cut to 7 or 8% then bulk post holiday to maximum 10-12%!

So I'm estimating my maintenance at;
186*0.9 = 167.4 * 15 = 2511, for cutting ill go 500 below this so 2000 calories Will be my target.

I plan to stick to the diet during the week and eat whatever one weekend day. So to account for the cheat day I'm going to remove a further 200 cal from my daily allowance which gives me an extra 6*200 for my cheat day! Averaging 2000/day over the week!

How does this sound!? Ill post up a 1800 cal diet shortly!..
Thanks!

**--->>405<<---** · 08-24-2012, 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by williams1337

Thanks for your kind comments.

405, Thx for confirming my 10% bf guess.

My main concern with bulking is the additional fat gain, as 10-12% would be the highest bf id be happy with. So given that and also the fact iv got an holiday end of oct I think I Will go on a steady cut. Hopefully cut to 7 or 8% then bulk post holiday to maximum 10-12%!

So I'm estimating my maintenance at;
186*0.9 = 167.4 * 15 = 2511, for cutting ill go 500 below this so 2000 calories Will be my target.

I plan to stick to the diet during the week and eat whatever one weekend day. So to account for the cheat day I'm going to remove a further 200 cal from my daily allowance which gives me an extra 6*200 for my cheat day! Averaging 2000/day over the week!

How does this sound!? Ill post up a 1800 cal diet shortly!..
Thanks!

i see ur quik on picking things up and reading! good work!

personally at ur bf% IMO u mite fare better to run a carb cycle. however it is a bit more complicated than a standard caloric deficit but extremely effective at eliminating body fat. typically we discourage against entire days for cheating and instead have it be one meal. with the way u look now u may be able to get away with an entire day and its ultimately up to u . worst case is itll impede ur progress.

today is a fairly busy day for me so i wont be on here as much as i usually am (at least in the morning). im gonna assume u dont know a lot about carb cycling and bump a thread that has a fairly good explanation and set up IMO.

its called "hey 405 what is carb cycling?" chek it out.

like i said u dont have to cycle carbs (at least not yet) but its my preferred method of cutting especially from the bf% ur startn at and trying to achieve!

**gbrice75** · 08-24-2012, 08:18 AM

Congrats man, you look great.

I agree with what was stated earlier - you could go either way, it's really a matter of choice. I personally wouldn't 'bulk', at least not in the traditional sense of the word. If you want to add more mass, go the lean bulk route and keep your bodyfat low. Otherwise, you can cut and get really shredded. You'd look insane because you have a great base. What do you want to do?

**williams1337** · 08-24-2012, 04:59 PM

Cheers gents.

I'm going to cut for a while, aim to get to around 7 or 8%.

I think for me the carb cycling Will be too challenging, as the depletion state Will leave me low on energy, looking flat, and therefore ill find it hard to maintain strength.. (The years training have made me understand my body!) therefore I wouldnt be consistent with the carb cycling..

Regarding the cheat day, I call it a cheat day but Its more likely just to be 1\ or 2 meals and a few alcoholic drinks, (I need this for my sanity!) therefore this would be somethin I could stick to and be consistent with!
Ill post up a 1800 cal cutting diet following 60p/20c/20f hopefully tomorrow for your advice on
thanks again :-)

**Razor** · 08-24-2012, 05:14 PM

Keep it up man, your gonna be a beast...well you already are one, so your gonna be a monster, cutting or bulking either way your gonna looked bad ass, im jealous of those genes

**--->>405<<---** · 08-24-2012, 06:52 PM

hey man nobody knows ur body better than u do! i never had a prob maintaining strength during depletion and actually saw some progression.

sounds like u know what ur doing! 60/20/20 is my preferred split for strait low carb.

look forward to seeing ur diet.

good luck!

**williams1337** · 08-25-2012, 12:53 AM

Ok gents Welcoming your tips, advice, pointers wherever possible.
So I'm aiming for 1800 cals, a few notes;

ill stick to this every day (simplicity, convenience, cheat day Will help maintain commitment)

I haven't got so much money to buy lots of food, so ill keep it on the cheap side

Can't spend ages preparing food, so ill do one big cook day for the meats I use!

Meal 1
40g oats + 25g whey + water
2 fish oil tabs
27P 24C 6F 263cal

Meal 2
25g whey
25g sunflower seeds
30P 9C 13F 275cal

Meal 3
1 can tuna
30P 0C 1F 130cal

Meal 4 pre workout meal
Rice & 4 egg whites
17 38 3 270

Meal 5 during workout
50g whey protein
2 Fish oil tabs
45 1 1 187

Meal 6 post workout
100g chicken and rice
2 fish oil tabs
45 39 9 415

Meal 7
100g steak/pork and veg
2 fish oil tabs
33 9 6 251

Totalling
181g protein 51%
120g Carb 27%
38g fats 19%
1791 Calories

Notice my carbs are only in morning and around my workouts as I need the energy.
Leg day I have bcaa since iv been squating 120kg plus I find they help with repairing.
Non workout days ill still have whey in meal 5 but only 25g.

Let me know your thoughts guys! Thanks

**--->>405<<---** · 08-25-2012, 08:01 AM

food choices look good. thought u were gonna run 60/20/20? keeping carbs at or below 20% total cals maximizes ur ability to mobilize (and thus burn) fat.

i suppose money is the reason ur having as many protein shakes?

personally id have veggies in 2 additional meals (the carbs really dont count as much as im sure u know)

**williams1337** · 08-25-2012, 08:50 AM

405 thanks for your reply.
Yes money is the reason for the added whey protein, I realise food is better but it shouldn't hindering progress?..

I was aiming for 60 20 20, do you think the 7% over on carbs would have much impact!?
Thanks!

**--->>405<<---** · 08-25-2012, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by williams1337

405 thanks for your reply.
Yes money is the reason for the added whey protein, I realise food is better but it shouldn't hindering progress?..

I was aiming for 60 20 20, do you think the 7% over on carbs would have much impact!?
Thanks!

for u prob not. u dont have a prob with leanness. if u do run into slow progress u could always take action then. it is a rule i live by and have read about from a very good author/nutrition expert (Lyle MacDonald). the 1800cals will prob help with that too. i dont think u need cals that low except for ur weekend deal..

run it man and see how u go. u can always adjust. and from the looks of u i dont think u need to worry about getting fat!

IMO the protein powder vs real food should not hinder progress no.. i just like to eat!

u planning on doing cardio? if so when and for how long, intensity, etc..

**williams1337** · 08-25-2012, 10:55 AM

Cool, well ill keep the reduction of carbs further in my back pocket to be used if needed :-) thanks

Regarding Cardio, I tend to do medium intensity 20min or high intensity burst sessions both on the cross trainer I.e 5min, high 30 sec low 15sec (x 2 or 3).
The hitt is usually done fasted in morning, medium intensity usually after workouts. But the frequency of my Cardio varies, minimum ill do is 1 session a week.
I think if I notice I'm not achieving my goal fast enough then ill start increasing Cardio! Do you have any Cardio specific tips!?

Thanks!

**--->>405<<---** · 08-25-2012, 11:15 AM

^^^good cardio session (longer than u do):

done am fasted

5min warm up
10mins HIIT (30sec/60sec)
5mins complete rest (allows for FFA build-up in bloodstream)
20-40mins moderate (130-140HR)
(optional 10mins HIIT)
5min cooldown