Fasted Cardio

[Provita]

So I know you can not burn fat and build muscle at the same time. But my understanding is that if done right, the net gains for a week can be LBM up and BF% down.

Now my question is if I do fasted cardio in the morning and the rest of the day I hit my TDEE and lift at night, will I burn fat and build muscle?

[--->>405<<---]

provita IMO a good way to try to accomplish this is by splitting ur days. have days geared toward fat loss and days geared toward LBM gain/maintenance. IMO even if u are able to lose bf% and maintain what LBM u have ur doing well.

with me all training days have no cardio and a caloric surplus (700-1700cals depending)

non-training days have a large deficit (1000-2000cals depending on current goal) plus at least 45mins cardio all the way up to 90mins cardio split into 2 sessions, both fasted. i can achieve 2 fasted sessions of cardio in a single day because on non-training days i fast from waking until dinner. usually 12hrs after waking and 21-24hrs after my final meal the night before.

[alex.mitev]

Cardio has been subject to passionate debates for long time now.
I encourage you guys to refer to Dr. Jake Wilson and Brad Shoenfeld both leading researchers on the topic at the time being. Dr.Wilson has recently collected metadata of all known to science studies with regards to cardio, on top of his own research including enhanced and natural BB. Brad Shoenfeld is focusing on fasted cardio and the guy has got lots to say.

[Provita]

provita IMO a good way to try to accomplish this is by splitting ur days. have days geared toward fat loss and days geared toward LBM gain/maintenance. IMO even if u are able to lose bf% and maintain what LBM u have ur doing well.

with me all training days have no cardio and a caloric surplus (700-1700cals depending)

non-training days have a large deficit (1000-2000cals depending on current goal) plus at least 45mins cardio all the way up to 90mins cardio split into 2 sessions, both fasted. i can achieve 2 fasted sessions of cardio in a single day because on non-training days i fast from waking until dinner. usually 12hrs after waking and 21-24hrs after my final meal the night before.

Interested in knowing, how is your recovery of the muscles after training day if you take in that big deficit?

[--->>405<<---]

well alex i read something by both authors above. i will say IMO depending on level of leanness and individual factors (hormonal, dietary practices, etc..) fasted cardio could prove damaging but i would not speculate into specifics as i think it depends solely on individual characteristics. for the typical fat dude trying to lose bf% i see nothing wrong with fasted cardio. for someone like me who is lean my suggestion would be to put into practice what i have been doing since i started dieting and working out 18months ago: pay close attention to ur body and monitor ur progress AND be prepared to make changes if necessary. when i first started i watched my LBM like a hawk! now i dont watch it as closely because i know my body.

as far as HIIT (dr wilson article i read) i believe he makes a great point and i think HIIT is an awesome tool to be used in everyones routine to some degree! i do HIIT usually 3 times per week for 30min sessions (often on the exercise bike)

i think as it pertains to cardio there is no "one size fits all" solution or answer. usually when making suggestions i try to include what has worked for me as examples, but it is up to the individual to try different methods to figure out what works best for them.

id also like to note i was tempted not to even read brad shoenfeld when i saw one of the primary sites he posts on, but i did not let my opinion keep my mind closed. can i conclusively say that fasted cardio is the best cardio? no.. can i say fed cardio is the best cardio?? no.. i do both, but do fasted most often as it has not led me wrong yet!

[--->>405<<---]

Interested in knowing, how is your recovery of the muscles after training day if you take in that big deficit?

so far so good.. keep in mind on training days i eat 3500-4500cals and 350-500g carbs and 400g+ protein..

[Provita]

so far so good.. keep in mind on training days i eat 3500-4500cals and 350-500g carbs and 400g+ protein..

Quite interesting. One would think that you would need that extra protein when recovering... I will struggle to get that amount of cals on training days. Will see, maybe I can work around that.

[Provita]

well alex i read something by both authors above. i will say IMO depending on level of leanness and individual factors (hormonal, dietary practices, etc..) fasted cardio could prove damaging but i would not speculate into specifics as i think it depends solely on individual characteristics. for the typical fat dude trying to lose bf% i see nothing wrong with fasted cardio. for someone like me who is lean my suggestion would be to put into practice what i have been doing since i started dieting and working out 18months ago: pay close attention to ur body and monitor ur progress AND be prepared to make changes if necessary. when i first started i watched my LBM like a hawk! now i dont watch it as closely because i know my body.

as far as HIIT (dr wilson article i read) i believe he makes a great point and i think HIIT is an awesome tool to be used in everyones routine to some degree! i do HIIT usually 3 times per week for 30min sessions (often on the exercise bike)

i think as it pertains to cardio there is no "one size fits all" solution or answer. usually when making suggestions i try to include what has worked for me as examples, but it is up to the individual to try different methods to figure out what works best for them.

id also like to note i was tempted not to even read brad shoenfeld when i saw one of the primary sites he posts on, but i did not let my opinion keep my mind closed. can i conclusively say that fasted cardio is the best cardio? no.. can i say fed cardio is the best cardio?? no.. i do both, but do fasted most often as it has not led me wrong yet!

Agree on HIIT!! Love it, and works great for me!

[bethdoth]

I can only tell you the results I have achieved. But I will preference my comments with the fact that all my body fat checks were done by the same trainer, same time of day with the same calipers and formula. May or may not be accurate.

I do fasting HIIT in the morning 4-5 days a week, I stop eating no later than 7PM and do my cardio at 5AM weekdays and as late as 10AM on weekends. Then I lift 3-4 times a week after work and every Sunday morning. I do 10mg of BCAA 15 minutes before 10mg during and 10mg after cardio. Try to eat brown rice and protein (chicken/fish) 1 hour before lifting and do a whey Protein shake 30 minutes after lifting while making dinner. Ok that is what I have been doing for about 11 weeks.

Here are the results, I may be wrong in my thinking and calculations but it is what it is. All weights are dressed in PT gear using the same scale (balance scale aka Dr scale). Jan 2nd weight 213 BF 26% (55.3 # of Fat / 157.7 # LBM); Feb 3rd weight 205 BF 22% (45.1 # Fat / 159.9 LBM); Mar 5th weight 196 17% BF (33.32 # Fat / 162.68 # LBM). This would indicate Fat lose of 22.06 pounds and muscle gain of 4.98 pounds. IMHO I can see it in the mirror.

So I believe it can be done. But, I have plateaued bad and need to change something... started Leangains approach today.... i'm hungry! Good Luck!

[--->>405<<---]

Rhoag it def can be done. Depending on ur level of fitness. When i started i was 213lbs 27%bf (155.49lbs LBM BOD POD)

I got to 193lbs 10%bf (173.7lbs LBM BOD POD)

Ur talking losing @ 30lbs fat and gaining@ 18lbs LBM..

Keep it going dude!!

[slfmade]

I use both, but must admit that fasted cardio is my go-to for cardio. I just do HIIT if I missed fasted that day for whatever reason but still wanta get some cardio in.

As I'm sure you know...diet will be the number one way you achieve your goals. I'm a big fan of carb cycling for what you're trying to achieve - using my mod carb days as large muscle group training days and using a HIT (high intensity training) routine for those days. IMO this perserves (and I believe can even increase) LBM, while the no carb days (carbs in the form of fibrous veggies only) will help drop bodyfat.

I'm not a big purchaser of supplements, but I do take bcaa's when doing fasted cardio. When dieting and training like this I've yet to see any decrease in LBM.

[bethdoth]

405 I have read a most of your log and posts and am very impressed and inspired by your results and determination. I don't know if i can achieve what you have but will make my goal of having a 6 pack. The trainer at the gym could not believe the numbers I pulled the first 2 months. He said he has never seen anyone my age lose that much fat and gain muscle. Not bad for 52 years young. I am going to try the leangains approach to break my current plateau. Get all my macro's from 11AM to 7 PM and I am reducing down to 1950 calories from 2100. Still do HIIT at 5AM and lift alternating afternoons. I like my Sunday morning workouts because I meet my daughters boyfriend at the gym and we push each other pretty hard.

Rhoag it def can be done. Depending on ur level of fitness. When i started i was 213lbs 27%bf (155.49lbs LBM BOD POD)

I got to 193lbs 10%bf (173.7lbs LBM BOD POD)

Ur talking losing @ 30lbs fat and gaining@ 18lbs LBM..

Keep it going dude!!

[--->>405<<---]

405 I have read a most of your log and posts and am very impressed and inspired by your results and determination. I don't know if i can achieve what you have but will make my goal of having a 6 pack. The trainer at the gym could not believe the numbers I pulled the first 2 months. He said he has never seen anyone my age lose that much fat and gain muscle. Not bad for 52 years young. I am going to try the leangains approach to break my current plateau. Get all my macro's from 11AM to 7 PM and I am reducing down to 1950 calories from 2100. Still do HIIT at 5AM and lift alternating afternoons. I like my Sunday morning workouts because I meet my daughters boyfriend at the gym and we push each other pretty hard.

glad to hear.. eating from 11-7 is a fairly normal schedule. if u find it still isnt working can i suggest reducing/eliminating starchy carbs from ur non-training days and fasting on those days as well. start at 6 hrs from when u wake and build up to 12.. also dont build a diet with 2000cals (for example) that u have to hit, but rather eat according to ur appetite once u break the fast and be sure to eat only lean protein and veggies (preferably a big spinach salad type meal with lean meat)! u will find u can get by on a lot less. the thing i dont like about leangains and IF is ( i think) u still eat a bunch of cals on ur non-training days just because u have them calculated in and i think this is unnecessary and can be counter-productive.

also when cutting u dont need to lift as much as u think. while ur gaining muscle now eventually that will slow down.. eating at a deficit the primary goal is fat loss (secondary - maintaining/gaining LBM) and to lose fat ur biggest 2 allies are gonna be diet and cardio (in that order). by no means am i suggesting u dont need to lift im just suggesting u dont need to lift like ur bulking.. 3 days per week is sufficient and i have actually done some weeks with 2 lifting days and 5 fasting/cardio days. this is stuff ive figured out about myself and u may have to play with it.

just dont force urself with IF to eat 2000cals everyday because u dont have to.. if u have any more questions feel free to drop them in my thread. if theres one thing i know its cutting!

[Provita]

On carb cycling, I know you only take carbs is on certain days and others you only eat protein, fat and veggies. How would one work with your macro's on carb days and kcals on non-carb days (ex. on 2200kcal tdee)?

Goal still LBM gain and bf% drop. Currently 10% bf

[calstate23]

405 I have read a most of your log and posts and am very impressed and inspired by your results and determination. I don't know if i can achieve what you have but will make my goal of having a 6 pack. The trainer at the gym could not believe the numbers I pulled the first 2 months. He said he has never seen anyone my age lose that much fat and gain muscle. Not bad for 52 years young. I am going to try the leangains approach to break my current plateau. Get all my macro's from 11AM to 7 PM and I am reducing down to 1950 calories from 2100. Still do HIIT at 5AM and lift alternating afternoons. I like my Sunday morning workouts because I meet my daughters boyfriend at the gym and we push each other pretty hard.

I still ABSOLUTELY HATE the intermittent fasting theory and will hate it forever...I do not see it place in weight lifting and nutrition at all....

What IS IMPORTANT is carb cycling....Carb cycling is 10 times better then starving your body for MANY important hours throughout the day...

It may work for some but eating Jenny Craig frozen meals also works for people too...Doesn't mean it is OPTIMAL...

Carb cycling is basically a MUST in my book when talking about cutting...

[Provita]

On carb cycling, I know you only take carbs is on certain days and others you only eat protein, fat and veggies. How would one work with your macro's on carb days and kcals on non-carb days (ex. on 2200kcal tdee)?

Goal still LBM gain and bf% drop. Currently 10% bf

Help please!!!

[calstate23]

Help please!!!

As usual...Everyone is different, so it will take some tweaking to fit your needs best...

Basically in carb cycling you have low, medium, and high carb days....It's also up to you how to work these days..


You could do 2 high days, 1 low day...You could do 2 low days, 1 high day, 1 medium...It's all how your body reacts best...But either way, it's probably better then what you're doing now because it's hard for your body to adapt to these adjustments...

You don't have to eat that at "special times"...Just hit your macros...But as USUAL, you will most likely benefit most eating your carbs in the morning and after workout...

[alex.mitev]

Body is not good at doing two things at the same time. Gain muscle , cut bf down, etc. It works for a newbie, for a person coming off a break of training, for enhanced athletes, for the geneticaly gifted. We are not speaking of good/bad for u, but what is optimal. To me it's funny to tell the shrink in the morning and grow in the evening. Thats just my opinion. Good aproach is to alternate mini cycles for each - 2 - r4 weeks cutting followed by bulking/recomp phase. Especially while cutting primes the body for lbm increase. If ur long term goal is less fat, simply go for longer cutting, shorter bulking phases.
Cheers

[--->>405<<---]

On carb cycling, I know you only take carbs is on certain days and others you only eat protein, fat and veggies. How would one work with your macro's on carb days and kcals on non-carb days (ex. on 2200kcal tdee)?

Goal still LBM gain and bf% drop. Currently 10% bf

Help please!!!

Provita IMO u need to forget gaining LBM and dropping bf% if u are at 10%bf.. period.. at 10%bf it is hard enuff to lose fat and not lose muscle, let alone gain it! IMO it would be damn near impossible. u may be able to make some lean gains where u maintain bf% but IMO this too will prove to be nearly impossible. with the right compounds and diet maybe but at 10% bf ur window for error is pretty small IMO.

if u want to make gains i suggest u try to come up with a lean bulking routine.. if u want to drop bf% i suggest u come up with a method of cutting where u do it slow and preserve most of ur LBM..

quit trying to do both because IMO its not gonna happen. on a side note in the event u do figure out how to gain LBM and drop bf% at a 10%bf starting point i expect im not alone in saying please share this info! (tren may be an option but im speculating as ive never run tren or any AAS cycle)..

[Provita]

Provita IMO u need to forget gaining LBM and dropping bf% if u are at 10%bf.. period.. at 10%bf it is hard enuff to lose fat and not lose muscle, let alone gain it! IMO it would be damn near impossible. u may be able to make some lean gains where u maintain bf% but IMO this too will prove to be nearly impossible. with the right compounds and diet maybe but at 10% bf ur window for error is pretty small IMO.

if u want to make gains i suggest u try to come up with a lean bulking routine.. if u want to drop bf% i suggest u come up with a method of cutting where u do it slow and preserve most of ur LBM..

quit trying to do both because IMO its not gonna happen. on a side note in the event u do figure out how to gain LBM and drop bf% at a 10%bf starting point i expect im not alone in saying please share this info! (tren may be an option but im speculating as ive never run tren or any AAS cycle)..

Thanks 405. Appreciate the help and info. I think I will start with lean bulking. I have a broken finger, so lifts are quite difficult and suspect gains will be slow, but maybe thats a good thing. I will be able to track my bf% and adjust diet as I go on.