Advice on cutting belly fat

[75189]

I have a hard time cutting belly fat! Seems like that is the only place I store fat.... Any advice on foods I should stay away from and workouts I should be doing

[austinite]

Make sure your calories are below your TDEE. Drop lactose for a start. Check out the cutting sticky thread.

[75189]

Thanks for the reply....what is TDEE? Still learning. I will head over to that thread next

[75189]

What is it? A low lactose diet means eating foods that do not have very much lactose. Lactose is a sugar that is a normal part of milk products. Some people do not break down lactose well. They may not have enough lactase, the enzyme that breaks lactose down in the body. Or, their body may make lactase that does not work properly. This may cause gas, bloating, cramping, or diarrhea when they eat or drink milk products. Following a low lactose diet may prevent these problems........just read about this. I drink a lot of 2% milk a day probably at least 24oz "I mix milk with my protein" didn't realize how bad that was until now.

[austinite]

Zero lactose. Not low lactose. Read the stickies, you will learn a lot. Tdee is your Total Daily Energy Expenditure. You can figure LBM x 15 = TDEE. That is the number you need to work off of. Subtract 500 or more, and that is your daily caloric intake to cut.

[DannC]

Wait...what? Still didn`t get the freakin` "no milk" part. Also read it in another thread.
Why exactly is it bad to drink it with the protein or just have milk, or even having it with the proteine before going to bed?
Yes, the "sugar" might spike your insuline levels...but come on...A standard 8-oz. serving of milk provides good to excellent sources of nine essential nutrients, making it one of the most nutrient-dense foods. This means it provides a high level of essential nutrients compared to its calories. In fact, each serving of milk provides 10% or more of the recommended daily intake for calcium, vitamin D (if fortified), protein, potassium, vitamin A, vitamin B12, riboflavin and phosphorus. Milk is well known as an excellent source of calcium. Regardless of its fat content, milk provides about 300 milligrams of calcium per serving (8 fluid ounces).
And stop with the ideea that "some people may have diarhhea" cause then we should kill the fvcking cows...
I drink alot of milk, with my whey protein, even before bed... i make great training, great cardio, getting leaner and leaner and very happy with myself...

Get it Snickers is bad...but milk? Seriously guys ...now we eat just cotton cheese everytime? Hahaha

[Times Roman]

only drink water (eliminate booze as well)
DO NOT EAT WHEAT! or any products containing wheat
eat large amounts of salad/veggies
psyllium husk fiber every day
keep carbohydrate intake to a minimum, and when eating carbs, the more complex the better
do not eat processed foods! enjoy whole foods instead


this is in addition to caloric intake below TDEE

[crazy mike]

Ya know I was hesitant to speak about milk but. Some of the science I might not know, No, I don't know. BUT, I'm an ecto. I was shinny as a rail when I started working out in my 30's. I pushed milk. I drank ice cream milk shakes w/ protein powder, I put raw eggs in it. When I was in the field ( const, inspector) I would go to the little store and say to myself, "ok you can drink ANYTHING you want after you drink this carton of milk. So on and so on...I put on weight and muscle mass, while on cycles. I got big, and a little bloated. I dieted for shows and cut to lean mass. I did have to stay away from it during contest. I now put on my bulk, with my shakes and milk, and peanut butter and so on. I did a Tren cycle I cut back but no stopped etc... I got lean and vascular. I drank shakes before bed. I eat meat, The point is as far as I know at age 61 I am healthy. At age 61 I'm making awesome gains when coming back after 25 yrs off. So I don't see it about no milk or even holding back. Again I am unaware of many things in regard to this subject. BUT I AM DOING QUITE WELL. .....crazy mike

[THINKBIG]

Yeah I agree Mike, I'm 43 been drinking milk all my life, some people can't and that's what people have to realize everyone is different try what works for your body, I mix all my protein shakes with chocolate milk. I'm not interested in getting shredded but I can and still drink milk. I read an article that said some people can work out and get no results at all from it?

[BluPhin]

Only 40% of adults have the ability to digest dairy products. The other 60% are either lactose intolerant or have decreased lactase activity to the extent that they are unable to fully convert lactose to glucose. Therefore, 60% of the adult population probably shouldn't drink milk/ eat dairy. However, for the other 40%, milk is a tremendous source of protein and other nutrients as mentioned above. Its irresponsible for people to make blanket statements saying consume zero lactose. No credible dietician or doctor would ever give this advice unless tests were run to confirm lactose intolerance. Avoiding lactose is not a silver bullet for elimination of belly fat.

[baseline_9]

Zero lactose. Not low lactose. Read the stickies, you will learn a lot. Tdee is your Total Daily Energy Expenditure. You can figure LBM x 15 = TDEE. That is the number you need to work off of. Subtract 500 or more, and that is your daily caloric intake to cut.

only drink water (eliminate booze as well)
DO NOT EAT WHEAT! or any products containing wheat
eat large amounts of salad/veggies
psyllium husk fiber every day
keep carbohydrate intake to a minimum, and when eating carbs, the more complex the better
do not eat processed foods! enjoy whole foods instead


this is in addition to caloric intake below TDEE

Can either of u guys back these statements up with anything?

Loosing fat comes down to macros..... Food choices are not relevant... Macros matter most

[junk2222yard]

Hi. I am not an expert, and not a bodybuilder. I am a fat man who carries most of his weight in his belly. I drink plenty of milk, and don't want to stop.

I have made progress in the last two months where previously there was none or very little. Body fat has gone from 29% to 26%. Belly is still huge, but I am seeing encouraging results. Two keys for me that have finally shown results:

1. no wheat
2. only eating for 8 hours, from noon to 8pm (see leangains.com)

Regarding #2, it is easy when ypou get it going. Really amounts to no snacking at night, and skipping breakfast.

Here is a thread with my pics: http://forums.steroid.com/nutrition-...tion-help.html

[nemesisd]

Even if you drink only 1 12oz glass of milk a day everyday,you will cut over 1,000 cals a week(4,000 a month) by dropping it from your diet.

[austinite]

Can either of u guys back these statements up with anything?

Loosing fat comes down to macros..... Food choices are not relevant... Macros matter most

Back up what? Food choices absolutely matter. I'm referring to Carb sources. They're not made equal and most certainly will hinder progress. This doesn't mean you can't lose fat, but definitely should not go ignored. Unless you have all the time in the world, of course.

[baseline_9]

Back up what? Food choices absolutely matter. I'm referring to Carb sources. They're not made equal and most certainly will hinder progress. This doesn't mean you can't lose fat, but definitely should not go ignored. Unless you have all the time in the world, of course.

I disagree..... But I'm up for hearing anyone's theory on how certain food choices cannot be consumed when cutting....

[austinite]

^ No one said it "cannot be consumed when cutting" - the point is your cutting progress can and will be hindered by consuming these poor carb sources. I don't understand the confusion here.

If a cutting cycle involved 2 glasses of milk daily that fit macros, the same diet, matching macros without the 2 glasses of milk can and will get you to your goal faster. It's not rocket science.

[baseline_9]

^ No one said it "cannot be consumed when cutting" - the point is your cutting progress can and will be hindered by consuming these poor carb sources. I don't understand the confusion here.

If a cutting cycle involved 2 glasses of milk daily that fit macros, the same diet, matching macros without the 2 glasses of milk can and will get you to your goal faster. It's not rocket science.

I'm not confused.... I understand exactly what your trying to say.... I'm just asking for an explanation.... I'm asking you why.....

If its not rocket science then please explain it...

And although no one said "it cannot be consumed" you did however say "zero lactose, not low lactose".... I'm just asking you to explain why your making that statement....


I'm not being funny, I used to believe the same thing.... But then after trying to find a reason why I believed it I realised it was just bro-science.... If you have read something that I haven't then please share because I'm always happy to accept something if its backed up with data....

[austinite]

^ Yes, zero lactose. that is my recommendation, not the laws of life.

The reason why is simple. Your liver can only store so much. Any excess will be converted to fatty acids. This excess is carried off and eventually stored in those spots most people complain of... stomach area, breast, etc... This eventually ends up all over your organs, which will hinder their progress. Metabolism goes down at this stage.

So according to "IIFYM" theory, regardless of the source... If my macronutrient breakdown calls for 200 grams of Carbs. Instead of complicating things I could just eat 1 cup of granulated sugar every day. That's 200 grams of carbs. (Sorry, I just vomited at the idea, but you get my point...)

Now could you lose weight? Of course you can. You can lose weight while eating the most unhealthy foods all day long at a rate of 5000 calories. You'd have to run a marathon every day, but you would lose weight. This is why the Atkins diet works so well in it's beginning stages.

Killing carb sources from lactose, fructose, dextrose and maltodextrin will absolutely speed up your fat-loss journey. If anyone hits a wall or plateaus, these simple changes will move them forward. It did for me. And I only do this when I'm cutting to reach a goal. I don't do this to maintain my current weight.

[baseline_9]

^ Yes, zero lactose. that is my recommendation, not the laws of life.

The reason why is simple. Your liver can only store so much. Any excess will be converted to fatty acids.this process is common for any source of CHO that one may consume... So nothing new there which is only relevant to galactose...This excess is carried off and eventually stored in those spots most people complain of... stomach area, breast, etc... This eventually ends up all over your organs, which will hinder their progress. Metabolism goes down at this stage.

So according to "IIFYM" theory, regardless of the source... If my macronutrient breakdown calls for 200 grams of Carbs. Instead of complicating things I could just eat 1 cup of granulated sugar every day. That's 200 grams of carbs. (Sorry, I just vomited at the idea, but you get my point...)

Now could you lose weight? Of course you can. You can lose weight while eating the most unhealthy foods all day long at a rate of 5000 calories. You'd have to run a marathon every day, but you would lose weight. This is why the Atkins diet works so well in it's beginning stages.

Killing carb sources from lactose, fructose, dextrose and maltodextrin will absolutely speed up your fat-loss journey.If anyone hits a wall or plateaus, these simple changes will move them forward. It did for me. And I only do this when I'm cutting to reach a goal. I don't do this to maintain my current weight.

Conversion of free fatty acids from glucose, fructose or galactose is common... Meaning it can happen to any of them.... So galactose is just the same here....

So what's wrong with consuming lactose? Am I missing the point here?

[Times Roman]

Can either of u guys back these statements up with anything?

Loosing fat comes down to macros..... Food choices are not relevant... Macros matter most

Wheat:

My eyes opened when I read a book called "Wheat Belly"

Amazon.com: Wheat Belly: Lose the Wheat, Lose the Weight, and Find Your Path Back to Health (3520700000720): William Davis: Books

anecdotal evidence on my part supports the conclusions of the book.

Here is the issue with wheat. I believe ALL wheat in the USA is now genetically modified to be drought resistant, maximizing yields per acre, yadda yadda....
It used to be that wheat stalks were 6' high back in grandpa's day. Now they are short little stocks 2' high. NOT the same as grandpa's wheat.
Our bodies haven't evolved/adapted to this "new" wheat, and is having a hard time with it. It also does a number of other things, like triggering inflamation, yadda yadda

additionally, if you have been paying attention, we are finding more and more people nowadays that are gluten intolerent. They flat out cannot eat wheat. and the theory extends to the general population where it is suspected a significant % (up to 1 in 3) are partially gluten intolerent.

there are so MANY articles out there on the web, it only takes a few seconds to find them.

here are a few:

Benefits of Not Eating Wheat

What's Wrong with Wheat?

Three Hidden Ways Wheat Makes You Fat | Dr. Mark Hyman

sometimes, you just got to see for yourself. I stopped eating wheat (mostly) and my stomach is now flat. sometimes when I cheat and eat pizza, i will get a distended/beer belly.

It's very noticeable.

Let me know if you have anyother questions, Base...

---Roman

[MrMayhem]

Wheat:
Here is the issue with wheat. I believe ALL wheat in the USA is now genetically modified to be drought resistant, maximizing yields per acre, yadda yadda....
It used to be that wheat stalks were 6' high back in grandpa's day. Now they are short little stocks 2' high. NOT the same as grandpa's wheat.
Our bodies haven't evolved/adapted to this "new" wheat, and is having a hard time with it. It also does a number of other things, like triggering inflamation, yadda yadda

additionally, if you have been paying attention, we are finding more and more people nowadays that are gluten intolerent. They flat out cannot eat wheat. and the theory extends to the general population where it is suspected a significant % (up to 1 in 3) are partially gluten intolerent.

there are so MANY articles out there on the web, it only takes a few seconds to find them.
---Roman

I have to say, most studies on any GMO ANYTHING doesnt look good. I cant believe ppl arent as outraged as me over it.

[baseline_9]

Wheat:

My eyes opened when I read a book called "Wheat Belly"

Amazon.com: Wheat Belly: Lose the Wheat, Lose the Weight, and Find Your Path Back to Health (3520700000720): William Davis: Books

anecdotal evidence on my part supports the conclusions of the book.

Here is the issue with wheat. I believe ALL wheat in the USA is now genetically modified to be drought resistant, maximizing yields per acre, yadda yadda....
It used to be that wheat stalks were 6' high back in grandpa's day. Now they are short little stocks 2' high. NOT the same as grandpa's wheat.
Our bodies haven't evolved/adapted to this "new" wheat, and is having a hard time with it. It also does a number of other things, like triggering inflamation, yadda yadda

additionally, if you have been paying attention, we are finding more and more people nowadays that are gluten intolerent. They flat out cannot eat wheat. and the theory extends to the general population where it is suspected a significant % (up to 1 in 3) are partially gluten intolerent.

there are so MANY articles out there on the web, it only takes a few seconds to find them.

here are a few:

Benefits of Not Eating Wheat

What's Wrong with Wheat?

Three Hidden Ways Wheat Makes You Fat | Dr. Mark Hyman

sometimes, you just got to see for yourself. I stopped eating wheat (mostly) and my stomach is now flat. sometimes when I cheat and eat pizza, i will get a distended/beer belly.

It's very noticeable.

Let me know if you have anyother questions, Base...

---Roman

My biggest problem with these articles that you have posted is just that... They are articles and hold no weight.... They are however rather amusing with some of the terms that they use....

The second problem is that these are mostly related to gluten intolerances and since we're talking about fat loss and not gluten intolerances I don't see how they are relevant....


Again guys I'm not being a cvnt (although you probably think I am lol), I'm simply asking WHY.... Hence my signature... There is too much 'hearsay' floating around the bodybuilding training and nutrition scene and asking someone to explain WHY is a great way to see if something is just 'hearsay/ broscience' or actually backed by data....

[austinite]

My biggest problem with these articles that you have posted is just that... They are articles and hold no weight.... They are however rather amusing with some of the terms that they use....

The second problem is that these are mostly related to gluten intolerances and since we're talking about fat loss and not gluten intolerances I don't see how they are relevant....


Again guys I'm not being a cvnt (although you probably think I am lol), I'm simply asking WHY.... Hence my signature... There is too much 'hearsay' floating around the bodybuilding training and nutrition scene and asking someone to explain WHY is a great way to see if something is just 'hearsay/ broscience' or actually backed by data....

lol, No one thinks that brother. This is a healthy debate and you bring great points. But regardless of the articles, TR stated something very important... "Sometimes you have to see for yourself". This was a conversation that I had a long time ago with Turkish Juicer. My intake at the time was 2200 calories, which included Lactose. I switched gears and removed lactose from my diet, maintained 2200 calories and zero change in workout/cardio routine. The results were almost immediate. This experience for me simply cannot go unnoticed. Maybe my body is different, but the same worked for my brother when he cut lactose out of his diet after a discussion we had.

I agree with you that articles are simply opinions. And until a study proves otherwise, they are just opinions. So for now, I'll continue my research on the topic and hopefully one day I can prove it works satisfactorily via a study. Until then, for me at least, it's not just a opinion, it's a fact.

[basketballfan22]

No wheat too! **** my life! Just kidding. I am not part of the "No GMO" community, mainly because of the the lack of real science behind many of the negative claims. I personally believe GMOs will be more and more necessary with our current global population problem. I only bring up the "GMO debate" because Times Roman mentioned "drought resistant wheat." The no milk debate makes more sense to me though. I recall having a similar debate with gbrice75 a few months back despite the fact I was still drinking 3 cups per day.

What type of carbohydrates do you typically consume Times Roman? Maybe it is the fact that I am an ectomorph and I don't respond so badly to carbohydrates, but I think some carbohydrates are good. There is a reason it is our primary source of energy. I personally can never accept removing FRUIT from my diet just because of the fructose.

[baseline_9]

lol, No one thinks that brother. This is a healthy debate and you bring great points. But regardless of the articles, TR stated something very important... "Sometimes you have to see for yourself". This was a conversation that I had a long time ago with Turkish Juicer. My intake at the time was 2200 calories, which included Lactose. I switched gears and removed lactose from my diet, maintained 2200 calories and zero change in workout/cardio routine. The results were almost immediate. This experience for me simply cannot go unnoticed. Maybe my body is different, but the same worked for my brother when he cut lactose out of his diet after a discussion we had.

I agree with you that articles are simply opinions. And until a study proves otherwise, they are just opinions. So for now, I'll continue my research on the topic and hopefully one day I can prove it works satisfactorily via a study. Until then, for me at least, it's not just a opinion, it's a fact.

I'm glad we can have a debate like this without me being the bad guy lol.... It's good, good for everyone

Ok so my comeback to you would be this...


So far we are yet to see (within this thread) a valid metabolic reason to avoid consuming lactose.... However I will take your word for it that when you dropped lactose 'the results were almost immediate' (taking it you mean 'fat loss' (or at least thought you did)....

So based on the fact that one of the common effects seen in lactose intolerant people is 'bloating' wouldn't you consider it more likely that it wasn't that the lactose was causing you to be fatter but it was simply causing you to bloat due to a lactose intolerance (which you may or may not know you have).....

Seeing as fat doesn't simply 'drop off' I'd suggest that your experience where "the results were almost immediate" was probably caused by the cessation of lactose, however the visual effect you noticed we're not caused by a sudden drop in body fat but actually by a sudden drop in 'bloat'....

[Times Roman]

My biggest problem with these articles that you have posted is just that... They are articles and hold no weight.... They are however rather amusing with some of the terms that they use....

The second problem is that these are mostly related to gluten intolerances and since we're talking about fat loss and not gluten intolerances I don't see how they are relevant....


Again guys I'm not being a cvnt (although you probably think I am lol), I'm simply asking WHY.... Hence my signature... There is too much 'hearsay' floating around the bodybuilding training and nutrition scene and asking someone to explain WHY is a great way to see if something is just 'hearsay/ broscience' or actually backed by data....

the book itself does cite authoritative references.

Here is the underlying problem when trying to answer the question by citing clinical studies.

Here is the question that is typically being asked:

"Is GM Wheat "safe" to eat?"

Now what exactly does "safe" mean?

Imho, "safe" means will it make you sick, either in the short or long term? and to this, the studies are generally saying NO. GM Wheat will not hurt you.

But we aren't asking that question, are we? We are asking what foods to avoid to reduce belly fat. And belly fat itself is not an illness.

So until there are actual clinical studies that attempt to answer this question, we, as pioneers in what we do, quite often rely heavily on anecdotal evidence, and using ourselves as guinnee pigs.

So all I can tell you Base, is that I've read the material, and tried it out for myself. I wouldn't be advising this if I didn't have personal, first hand experience.

Good question!

---Roman

[Times Roman]

No wheat too! **** my life! Just kidding. I am not part of the "No GMO" community, mainly because of the the lack of real science behind many of the negative claims. I personally believe GMOs will be more and more necessary with our current global population problem. I only bring up the "GMO debate" because Times Roman mentioned "drought resistant wheat." The no milk debate makes more sense to me though. I recall having a similar debate with gbrice75 a few months back despite the fact I was still drinking 3 cups per day.

What type of carbohydrates do you typically consume Times Roman? Maybe it is the fact that I am an ectomorph and I don't respond so badly to carbohydrates, but I think some carbohydrates are good. There is a reason it is our primary source of energy. I personally can never accept removing FRUIT from my diet just because of the fructose.

I wake up and eat a cup of oats

two hours later, another cup of oats.

fruit before and after gym

generally, this is all the carbs I eat, except here lately, I've been throwing in some protein powder in my yogurt at night. but i need to knock this off.

[basketballfan22]

Damn that's it? I like to eat my peanut butter sandwiches from time to time as well as the occasional dish with some type of noodles.

[Times Roman]

Damn that's it? I like to eat my peanut butter sandwiches from time to time as well as the occasional dish with some type of noodles.

BBF
It really depends on what your goals are. If you are going to eat a cheat meal, then go for it. But as part of your daily nutritional intake, I wouldn't touch either the bread (forget wheat for the moment, flat out too many simple carbs), or the noodles (almost always made with "enriched flour" which is pure garbage if you ask me)

If you have a hankering for noodles, try spaghetti squash sometime, if you havent' already. It's pretty damn good, goes well with many things that would typically go with pasta, and not too bad by itself with a sprinkle of soy sauce over it.

---Roman

[austinite]

I'm glad we can have a debate like this without me being the bad guy lol.... It's good, good for everyone

Ok so my comeback to you would be this...


So far we are yet to see (within this thread) a valid metabolic reason to avoid consuming lactose.... However I will take your word for it that when you dropped lactose 'the results were almost immediate' (taking it you mean 'fat loss' (or at least thought you did)....

So based on the fact that one of the common effects seen in lactose intolerant people is 'bloating' wouldn't you consider it more likely that it wasn't that the lactose was causing you to be fatter but it was simply causing you to bloat due to a lactose intolerance (which you may or may not know you have).....

Seeing as fat doesn't simply 'drop off' I'd suggest that your experience where "the results were almost immediate" was probably caused by the cessation of lactose, however the visual effect you noticed we're not caused by a sudden drop in body fat but actually by a sudden drop in 'bloat'....

Although lactose intolerance is very difficult to diagnose, I never really experienced any symptoms. I absolutely love milk and drank it everyday for decades. Never experienced irritable bowels, excessive gas, etc... with or without lactose.

I am the biggest fan of the "Elimination Process". I did it with all my supplements in the past (too many currently to do this). I once found that Magnesium was the culprit of soft stool for me. In the dieting regimen than I had, Milk was the culprit. I should also note that I do not have any allergies.

As for the sudden drop in body fat, bod pod assessments indicated a drop, and I was very happy with that.

I have an appointment with my Endo tomorrow. At this facility they have one of the most knowledgeable and experienced nutritionist and I love talking to her. Mainly because she is super hot but also because she really thinks outside the box and prints out a ton of studies for me each time we discuss nutrition. I will bring this topic up to her tomorrow and get her opinion. This will be fun

But really, I should probably not say it's a fact for everyone. I take more supplements than most people could fathom, and I've added quite a few along the way, so it's possible that something else is doing this. This elimination process would take me several years and that challenge I am not up for I'm just keeping an open mind here.

[basketballfan22]

BBF
It really depends on what your goals are. If you are going to eat a cheat meal, then go for it. But as part of your daily nutritional intake, I wouldn't touch either the bread (forget wheat for the moment, flat out too many simple carbs), or the noodles (almost always made with "enriched flour" which is pure garbage if you ask me)

If you have a hankering for noodles, try spaghetti squash sometime, if you havent' already. It's pretty damn good, goes well with many things that would typically go with pasta, and not too bad by itself with a sprinkle of soy sauce over it.

---Roman

Spaghetti squash? Just looked it up, and it sounds pretty good. My goals are still to gain some lean body mass. I have always had trouble gaining weight so that is one of the reasons I don't eliminate all of my carbs. Thanks for the recommendation though.

[Quester]

I'd like to hear more about the problem with wheat. I've substituted wheat for just about any other bread-type of grain. One of the reasons it's beneficial is its high fiber content. I have no reason to think that I, or anybody I know has a legitimate problem with Gluten. However, there was a girl in my speech class who covered this in one of her speeches. From what I gathered Celiac Disease made Gluten a problem for her because of an adverse affect on her endothelial cells, they line the stomach. I don't see it being a problem for people without the disease. People have been eating wheat, a whole, non-processed food source, for over twelve thousand years. In fact, it is a staple. Processed milk...not so much. If I lived in Mongolia, I'd drink the good stuff. There are a lot of people who jump on the latest fad and right now it is fadish to put down some of these things. Admittedly, there are legitimate health concerns that some things are bad but not for the vast majority of people.

[OdinsOtherSon]

This conversation between baseline 9, austinite and TR is exactly why I love this forum. Grown men, hashing out and debating an issue, while not bashing each other for their opinions, for the betterment of all. Hats off to ya fellas.

[austinite]

This conversation between baseline 9, austinite and TR is exactly why I love this forum. Grown men, hashing out and debating an issue, while not bashing each other for their opinions, for the betterment of all. Hats off to ya fellas.

I will crush baseline and TR!

Just kidding, they're both bigger than me. I would never try

Thanks for the kind words, Odin.

[oldnsedentary]

So what's wrong with consuming lactose? Am I missing the point here?

Well, it is sugar. Anything that ends in "ose" is sugar. Bodybuilders should not be consuming large amounts of sugar, and milk is loaded with it!

[Times Roman]

Spaghetti squash? Just looked it up, and it sounds pretty good. My goals are still to gain some lean body mass. I have always had trouble gaining weight so that is one of the reasons I don't eliminate all of my carbs. Thanks for the recommendation though.

you are in for a treat. I DO NOT like squash in general. It's a texture thing primarily. But I really like spaghetti squash. You can take it straight out the microwave, remove it from it's skin, a dab of olive oil, mix it all in, and then straight on the plate, with a couple of drips of soy sauce.

I'd like to hear more about the problem with wheat. I've substituted wheat for just about any other bread-type of grain. One of the reasons it's beneficial is its high fiber content. I have no reason to think that I, or anybody I know has a legitimate problem with Gluten. However, there was a girl in my speech class who covered this in one of her speeches. From what I gathered Crohn's Disease made Gluten a problem for her because of an adverse affect on her endothelial cells, they line the stomach. I don't see it being a problem for people without the disease. People have been eating wheat, a whole, non-processed food source, for over twelve thousand years. In fact, it is a staple. Processed milk...not so much. If I lived in Mongolia, I'd drink the good stuff. There are a lot of people who jump on the latest fad and right now it is fadish to put down some of these things. Admittedly, there are legitimate health concerns that some things are bad but not for the vast majority of people.

best advice i can give you quester, is to get the book i mentioned above, and read it. written by a doctor, so some credibility there, and trace out some of his references he cites to back up some of his positions. Then, after you read the book, avoid wheat for a month and see how you feel.

Then come back here and tell us how it went.

Good luck!

---Roman

[DannC]

I have an appointment with my Endo tomorrow. At this facility they have one of the most knowledgeable and experienced nutritionist and I love talking to her. Mainly because she is super hot but also because she really thinks outside the box and prints out a ton of studies for me each time we discuss nutrition. I will bring this topic up to her tomorrow and get her opinion. This will be fun

Now i am really curiouse... let`s see what the "pros" say
Plus i wonder how hot she is... (joke)
Waiting for your post ...

[baseline_9]

Well, it is sugar. Anything that ends in "ose" is sugar. Bodybuilders should not be consuming large amounts of sugar, and milk is loaded with it!

No, sorry, that's a fact, not a reason why one should not consume lactose....

[austinite]

Now i am really curiouse... let`s see what the "pros" say
Plus i wonder how hot she is... (joke)
Waiting for your post ...

Well, she was very busy. But I plan on going back next monday. I picked up my prescription and waited until I couldnt wait anymore so I couldnt speak to her.

Now, let's just make something clear and official for one last time... You can consume lactose. NO PROBLEM. The argument is whether Milk, for example, can slow down your fat loss efforts. Does this mean you can't cut down body fat with Milk in your diet? Absolutely not, you certainly can. That is not what we're saying here. We're only speaking of the rate at which you would achieve a given goal.

[Quester]

best advice i can give you quester, is to get the book i mentioned above, and read it. written by a doctor, so some credibility there, and trace out some of his references he cites to back up some of his positions. Then, after you read the book, avoid wheat for a month and see how you feel.

Then come back here and tell us how it went.

Good luck!

---Roman

Ok. From what I've been able to find today there is quite a bit of reason to believe that there is something to this no gluten thing. I am going to take this to the next level and devote more time to this subject. Interestingly, one of the things I found was that there are older varieties of wheat that have a drastically lower level of gluten. Also, some baking methods...here's the quote:

"Now research shows us that lacto-fermentation of wheat has the potential to drastically reduce gluten levels. We found three studies along these lines. Our favorite study showed that sourdough bread produced with a particular strain of lacto-bacilli had gluten levels of 12 parts per million – where anything under 20 ppm is considered gluten-free. Bread made with the same wheat but without lacto-fermentation had gluten levels of 75,000 ppm."

Research Sheds Light on Gluten Issues | The Whole Grains Council

It appears that gluten is the big problem. Fortunately, there appears to be ways of minimizing gluten content in wheat to acceptable levels. I am going to learn more about this and I may take up your challenge but with a possible modification of being gluten free instead of wheat free.
THANKS TO YOU, THE ANTI-WHEAT FACTION in this thread for turning me onto knowledge that may increase my quality of life.