The Anabolic Window....... not as critical as was once thought

[Times Roman]

Yet another discussion illustrating the need to eat sufficiently as opposed to the timing of when you eat it.

Read on........

Do You Need Protein Immediately After Your Workout? | STACK

http://www.stack.com/2014/11/14/prot...m_source=yahoo

Finish your lift, immediately crush a protein shake. That seems to be the preferred modus operandi of athletes and fitness-minded people everywhere. The common mode of thinking says, "The quicker you get the protein in, the more effective it will be!"

But how did this idea become gospel? I partially blame EAS Myoplex and their "don't waste your workout" commercials. Those ads specifically emphasized a post-workout "30-minute window" during which their product had to be consumed to be effective. They show Brady Quinn finishing his workout and literally sprinting to the product, driving home the importance of immediate post-workout protein consumption.

The ads played on one of athletes' biggest fears—wasting their workout. After all the blood, sweat and tears you put into a grueling session, do you really want to risk throwing your progress away? That's a terrifying thought, and the ads helped create a shared mindset that protein needs to be consumed as quickly as possible after a workout to be effective.

But is this really true? Should we lug our protein shakes around all day so we will have them on hand immediately post-workout? Is the stress worth it?

STACK talked to Brad Schoenfeld, Ph.D, CSCS, and Brad Pilon, intermittent fasting expert, to get to their take on the timing of post-workout protein.

RELATED: Should I Drink a Protein Shake Before and After I Work Out?

Taking in a certain amount of specific nutrients at a certain time in relation to workouts is called "nutrient timing." One of the supposed most important periods to practice nutrient timing is within the "anabolic window of opportunity," which exists for about 45 minutes following the end of your final rep. During this window, your body is in prime condition to quickly absorb and efficiently use nutrients such as protein. Essentially, your body turns protein into muscle more efficiently during this period. To the average lifter, it makes sense. Your muscles are pumped up right after you lift, and you want to get protein into them before they deflate.

But research on the anabolic window has been inconclusive at best. Although some short-term studies found a significant benefit in consuming post-workout protein in a timely manner, long-term research on the anabolic window of opportunity often painted a different picture. One study "refuted the commonly held belief that the timing of protein intake in and around a training session is critical to muscular adaptations, indicating that consuming adequate protein in combination with resistance exercise is the key factor for maximizing muscle protein accretion." That means the researchers found that eating enough protein was far more important than when you eat it.

A different study found that "collectively, the available data lack any consistent indication of an ideal post-exercise timing scheme for maximizing [muscle protein synthesis]."

RELATED: How Food Affects Your Muscle-Building Hormones

Schoenfeld explains the science behind the anabolic window of opportunity: "The more proteins you synthesize, the more hypertrophy [muscle growth] you're going to have. For growth to occur, protein synthesis has to exceed protein breakdown. While you lift, you're in a catabolic state. That means your body is breaking down muscle proteins. You're body remains in this state after your workout, until you consume nutrients. Then your body goes into an anabolic state, which allows for muscle growth. Long-term studies have found that this post-workout period wherein your body more efficiently synthesizes protein is much longer than initially thought. It's not the sudden drop off people once thought, but much more gradual. The narrowness of the window that we initially thought doesn't seem to hold up."

Basically, he says chugging a protein shake a couple hours after your lift is no worse than chugging one immediately post-workout. STACK Expert Brian St. Pierre also wrote about this topic on his website: "The anabolic window of opportunity is actually a whole lot bigger than we used to believe. Recent data suggest that the total amount of protein and carbohydrate you eat, over the course of the day, is more important for body composition and performance than nutrient timing strategies."

St. Pierre says that how much you eat, what you eat and why you eat are all more important than when you eat. Pilon echoes St. Pierre's comments, saying, "Your daily protein intake seems to matter much more than the specific timing of protein intake when the goal is overall muscle growth. Focusing on specific meal timing either pre or post-workout seems to be much less important than focusing on consistent overall daily macronutrient intake."

So if the anabolic window of opportunity is not as small as we initially thought, when exactly does it end? Based on a study from McMaster University, it could last up to 48 hours. As you can see in this graph from the study, protein synthesis levels do gradually drop over time. But it seems to be a much slower process than people used to think. "I think it's safe to say that if you're resistance training with any consistency—basically anything around three times per week or more—then every meal you eat is both a pre- and post-workout meal, as the effects of a single workout seem to last for as long as 48 hours, if not longer," Pilon says.

[marcus300]

When you have had an intense workout and really broken-down the body your better starting the rebuilding phase as soon as possible, also when your carrying a lot of muscle tissue getting the food in as soon as possible helps to the repairing process and maintenance. I know a lot of fitness, bodybuilders and strength athletes and I don't know one who doesn't feed as soon as possible after a workout. I personally couldn't imagine waiting because what the fuk are you waiting for I need to supply my body with the nutrients as soon as possible and ive got to maintain 260lbs so like Dorian states get the food in as soon as possible and start the muscle building process as soon as possible.

Ive not read all the thread because fuking studies just fuk me off, you try maintaining and building muscle tissue especially if your already carrying a lot of tissue. If people want to follow fuking study done by skinny arse fukers who have no idea about maintaining or building muscle well that's your choice but your depriving your body IMHO. Its worked for decades and it will carry on working, end of debate for me

Going training and then eating I'm old school

[Times Roman]

not saying it doesn't work. just saying it's not as critical as some imagine. there was a time when we thought that critical window was 45 minutes. We're finding out now that it's a much longer period.

I have a book I read cover to cover, twice, looking up the referenced studies, called "Nutrient Timing" I believe. It too hammered the point of the 45 minute window, including dosing with dextrose to shuttle protein to the cells more efficiently. So I took that position for awhile. Started a thread. It's here somewhere.

But there were some very convincing arguments from the other side, equally referencing studies utilizing weight lifters with a control group. Both groups were eating to their macros, but the results were inconclusive suggesting that the study group achieved no greater advantage over the control group over, I believe it was, a six week period.

I consume protein every four hours. I do eat 5 grams BCAA/Glutamine pre gym and again during gym. And then come home and eat dinner.

[against_grain]

IM hungry after I train so I eat straight away OM NOM NOM> I think nutrition asap after training is best choice. You think a longer wait time is going to benefit somehow?

[Gaspaco]

I eat when I am hungry

[Times Roman]

IM hungry after I train so I eat straight away OM NOM NOM> I think nutrition asap after training is best choice. You think a longer wait time is going to benefit somehow?

I'm thinking it's not the detriment it's made out to be. More importantly is making sure you eat to your macros and intelligently space protein intake intervals throughout the day.

It does not any good to woof a protein shake post workout if you are not eating sufficient protein (or calories) throughout the day. Too many times I see skinny guys at the gym really focus on the right protein whey PWO, yet when I poll them how much protein they eat through out the day, they either don't know or the number they give is significantly insufficient.

[Docd187123]

IM hungry after I train so I eat straight away OM NOM NOM> I think nutrition asap after training is best choice. You think a longer wait time is going to benefit somehow?

The point isn't that waiting longer will benefit you. The point is if for some reason the meal or shake after your training is delayed, you won't miss out on the 'anabolic window' and your results/progress won't suffer. It means eat to your macros but leave the timing to convenience. No need to rush home afterwards and guzzle down a shake within 26.378minutes. Just get some food in you when you're hungry and it's convenient. Some people are still stuck in the caveman era of bodybuilding and believe you MUST feed your muscles immediately after working out or think that you need to give your muscles nutrients as soon as possible. The differences are negligible considering you're eating isocaloric diets with similar macro content. So bottom line the a article Times posted isn't trying to say it's better to wait longer to eat, it's simply saying you don't need to rush to eat either.

[Times Roman]

The point isn't that waiting longer will benefit you. The point is if for some reason the meal or shake after your training is delayed, you won't miss out on the 'anabolic window' and your results/progress won't suffer. It means eat to your macros but leave the timing to convenience. No need to rush home afterwards and guzzle down a shake within 26.378minutes. Just get some food in you when you're hungry and it's convenient. Some people are still stuck in the caveman era of bodybuilding and believe you MUST feed your muscles immediately after working out or think that you need to give your muscles nutrients as soon as possible. The differences are negligible considering you're eating isocaloric diets with similar macro content. So bottom line the a article Times posted isn't trying to say it's better to wait longer to eat, it's simply saying you don't need to rush to eat either.

I think that fairly states my position. so say, for example, I eat 50 grams of protein in the form of chicken 2 hours prior, a banana as I'm walking in the gym, and I also do 5grams BCAA/Glutamine prior and another during gym. Then I go home and eat a decent meal that includes significant protein within say, 40 minutes to an hour or so after gym. This is pretty typical for me. And I think it fits my lifestyle well. My position is that if I were to consume a protein shake as I'm walking out the gym, I don't see that as really doing much, cept give me gas.........

[zempey]

I have a shake right after because I don't eat before I train, so I am flat out hungry. I eat breakfast about an hour after I get home. The timing works well for me, the pwo shake is enough to tie me over until I get home and cook.

[Times Roman]

^not me. I cannot train on an empty stomach. I MUST have a pretty good food supply in me from the last few hours prior to going, else significant gym fatigue....

.......in fact, I haven't had gym fatigue in a long time. Not since I switched over to the fruit

[Khazima]

Most days I'm not hungry straight after the gym anyway, sometimes I end out waiting 2-3 hours before eating. The harder I work the longer I'm not hungry for.

[Times Roman]

I don't wait that long. All day long, I'm eating. Fruit every 2 or three hours. chicken every four hours. there is no metabolic benefit of my breaking meals up into smaller more frequent. but I also don't like to stuff my gut and instead keep it semi full most of the day.

I really can't go too long without eating. I've been tested, and no, not hypo glycemic

[DCI]

Tr you decribe what i do tbh. Eat regularly with the correct split.

Personally my pre workout is 80g oats some honey and a strong black coffee and im good to go.

Pwo is shake with creatine glutamine fast carbs and protein and an hr and a bit later chicken peas and good old potatoes

[Times Roman]

shit. broke my routine and ate too much before gym tonight. intensity was lethargic. chalk one up to "I should have known better.........."

[zempey]

I take a pre workout with all the stimulant stuff that comes in them and add a carb supplement, BCAA's, and some l-carnatine that I have until it is gone. I drink the same thing during my workout. Seems to work well, the carb supp has really made a difference in energy levels towards the end of the workout.

[Times Roman]

I take a pre workout with all the stimulant stuff that comes in them and add a carb supplement, BCAA's, and some l-carnatine that I have until it is gone. I drink the same thing during my workout. Seems to work well, the carb supp has really made a difference in energy levels towards the end of the workout.

I get the same thing with a banana

if you want a stimulant, coffee is king

if you want a pump, straight arginine

if you want to pay a lot of money for a pwo, there are shelves full of the stuff that will take your money at GNC

[zempey]

I spend more on beer in a month than I do on pre workout supps, costs me about 40/month.

[Wintermaul]

If you eat all day anyway you would always have steady blood-sugar and protein available anyway. If you consume a good meal 2-3 hours before a workout i don't think you need a shake after training because the body already have what it needs to start with. But of course you would need to refill after a workout sometime. Like Marcus stated, feed the body all day through.
Regarding shakes around workout; i found that i need some simple carbs during training to not get tired and really get a pump. So anything with simple carbs like intraworkoutshake, banana etc would be enough. I think this is more important than a proteinshake right after training. The body doesn't rebuild totally within the "anabolic window" anyway, it takes days of all-the-time consuming food to rebuild.

[GirlyGymRat]

I spend more on beer in a month than I do on pre workout supps, costs me about 40/month.

More on beer? Seems odd to me. Most BB aren't big drinkers. The 2 don't normally mix well.

Me jealous. I can't drink when cutting. Carbs are too much.

[Docd187123]

More on beer? Seems odd to me. Most BB aren't big drinkers. The 2 don't normally mix well.

Me jealous. I can't drink when cutting. Carbs are too much.

In that case do the perma-bulk

[Buster Brown]

In that case do the perma-bulk

I just switched to the hard stuff.

[Times Roman]

when I was on the atkins, I found the Tequila to have the lowest calorie to kick ratio..........

......ok, I just made that up. But it sounded good, didn't it? =)

[RaginCajun]

when I was on the atkins, I found the Tequila to have the lowest calorie to kick ratio.......... ......ok, I just made that up. But it sounded good, didn't it? =)

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