any carb sensative people out there??

**Ryan624** · 06-29-2015, 07:15 PM

My body has never handled carbs well. I have never been able to get rid of the last bit of lower belly and chest fat and am looking into trying either no carb, carbs only pre workout (around noon) , carb backload (just eating carbs for post workout shake and meal after, or eating carbs and surplus cals on lift days. and no carbs at around maintanance on rest or cardio days... anyone have any experience and luck with any of these methods? any help would be appreciated

**mesophyte** · 06-29-2015, 07:38 PM

In my humble opinion, carbs are far from necessary but this is a rather controversial topic.

I tend to keep my carbs under 50g a day, usually between 20 and 40 but I have no lower limit. I do not regularly time the few grams of carbs I do ingest. Sometimes I do but I don't particularly think it matters once you are keto adapted.

I have not had any problems from lifting while on a keto-diet. That being said, while I don't really recommend it, I have been having a weekly meal out during which I do ingest carbs freely. So, take from that what you wish.

**Ryan624** · 06-29-2015, 07:43 PM

Thanks for the response. What changes have you noticed since going keto?

**mesophyte** · 06-29-2015, 09:00 PM

Well I have been keto for most (though certainly not all) of the last few years. It seems to be my go-to WOE.

Personally, I feel like LC and Keto are helpful in many ways, not just for fat burning. Higher and more stable energy levels, to elimination of cravings, to improved digestion, better mood and more.

That being said, I cannot stress enough how important it is to count calories as well. Some LC plans tell you that you don't need to count calories. What they don't always tell you is that the reason they say you don't need to count calories is because they assume you will naturally eat less since ketosis tends to cut your apetite. And while this is somewhat true and confirmed by studies that show people tend to naturally eat less, it isn't always true (I know from experience) and you don't want to risk it all on the hopes that you will naturally eat below your TDEE.

So, the best advice I can give about going low carb is to count your calories. The literature does seem to suggest that you gain a metabolic advantage from going low-carb and espcially ketosis, but even still calories DO matter. You can't eat 5000 calories per day and expect your body to still find a way to burn your existing body fat in addition to all the energy you ingested.

**Ryan624** · 06-29-2015, 09:21 PM

awesome thanks for the info . I think im going to give it a try, counting calories is something im def used to anyway so thats not a problem.

**mesophyte** · 06-29-2015, 10:38 PM

Great! Let us know how it goes! Oh, and be sure to stick through the adaptation period. You might not feel so great for the first week or so but if you stick with it you'll see how much better this WOE is.

**tarmyg** · 06-29-2015, 11:47 PM

I would not count calories until you are firmly settled in Ketosis, you will feel pretty burnt out anyways. Once in Ketosis count away! Just my 2c.

**thisAngelBites** · 06-30-2015, 06:25 AM

I'm carb sensitive. I get lethargy from carbs, even when it's early and I woke up rested and full of energy.

I only restrict grain/sugar carbs and don't worry about veg and fruit (although in general I don't eat starchy veg). Fruit isn't great to eat in abundance, but I don't overeat fruit (who is going to eat a whole bag of oranges or something? I just don't find it like cookies/biscuits/crisps and junk carbs where you can keep eating). I think if I restrict too much I find myself thinking about food all the time, and I personally think that way lies disordered eating.

So I eat this way, and the rest takes care of itself - and no fatigue.

And second tarmyg's rec regarding not worrying about calories and such until you're in ketosis. I find the least painful path to ketosis (altho not the quickest) is cutting out all grains and sugar except for fruits and veg. You will eat a lot of fruit for a couple of days, and then it will slow down and be easy to cut out. If I do it that way, I don't get headaches or misery.

Medium chain triglycerides will increase speed into ketosis, if you're in a rush, but I wouldn't be.

**Arete** · 07-01-2015, 11:12 PM

A few things to help with keto or low carb. Track your food intake so you can understand where carbs are coming from. As mentioned above cutting grains, starches and sugar is required. Also protein intake is moderate not high more around .6 grams per pound instead of 1+gram per pound if body weight. There are a lot if books on ketosis and body builders have been doing it since the 70's. Also when wanting to get into ketosis it's important to increase fat intake possibly as high as 90% of calories. A fasted day with only fat calories and some moderate cardio will speed up the process. Use healthy oils like coconut, MCT, butter and olive oils. Tons to read out there. Good luck.

**GirlyGymRat** · 07-02-2015, 04:55 AM

Originally Posted by Arete

A few things to help with keto or low carb. Track your food intake so you can understand where carbs are coming from. As mentioned above cutting grains, starches and sugar is required. Also protein intake is moderate not high more around .6 grams per pound instead of 1+gram per pound if body weight. There are a lot if books on ketosis and body builders have been doing it since the 70's. Also when wanting to get into ketosis it's important to increase fat intake possibly as high as 90% of calories. A fasted day with only fat calories and some moderate cardio will speed up the process. Use healthy oils like coconut, MCT, butter and olive oils. Tons to read out there. Good luck.

I appreciate your post. My doctor doesn't want me to be in ketosis bc I am diabetic. Personally I would love to try ketosis. I think I would feel more satiated then on high protein mod fat and low carb.

**Arete** · 07-02-2015, 05:19 AM

A lot of Doctors do not understand ketosis but the reason it is used is to help people become insulin sensitive since high carb diets can make people insulin resistant. It is very effective in helping reverse type 2 diabetes. Doctors do not want us to be able to heal ourselves with food when they can sell us a pill. If you have type 1 diabetes then there can be some concern but becoming more insulin sensitive helps either way but if this is the case you really need to read and educate yourselves.

Body builder types have been eating healthy for many years but at times eat high carbs to bulk but lower carb to cut. The hard part for us is to say "we should eat more fat,especially saturated animal fats". It is starting to become understood that the omega 3 fatty acids in coconut oils and grass fed meats are really important. It's the bad oils that cause the problems.

Just like making choices to use steroids or other supplements the same goes for eating changes. I no longer just take a doctors word hit it since they are not educated much on nutrition but more on giving a pill. Same goes for when I went to my HRT doctor and they don't even ask what kind of diet your eating that may be the root of the problem. The Internet allows us to do research and decide for ourselves just like reading on these forums. A great book on ketogenic is written by Lyle Mcdonald and a good website is Marks Daily Apple.

**mesophyte** · 07-03-2015, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by GirlyGymRat

I appreciate your post. My doctor doesn't want me to be in ketosis bc I am diabetic. Personally I would love to try ketosis. I think I would feel more satiated then on high protein mod fat and low carb.

Most doctors, as well intentioned as they are, don't have a clue about diet induced ketosis which is a completely different thing from diabetic ketoacidosis which is what they would have actually studied.

I could be mistaken (and hopefully someone will correct me if I am) as to the exact mechanism of action, but I believe that a diabetic going into ketosis NOT THROUGH DIET, that is, your body no longer recognizing the sugar in your body and going into ketosis even though you are eating plenty of carbs is where the danger is at. In other words, the danger isn't the ketosis but the fact that it is happening with carbs and sugars in your system which means they aren't getting dealt with. This is completely different from someone who stops eating sugar and carbs and gets into diet induced ketosis. The danger for the diabetic is when they are ingesting carbs and sugars the body cannot properly deal with, not when they cut them out.

The low-carb keto forums are all filled with diabetics. Many of whom have gotten their bood suger levels under control and been able to get off medication. I suggest checking out some of those websites/forums and talking to other diabetics in the same situation. Ketosis is not the enemy, carbs are.

**GirlyGymRat** · 07-03-2015, 10:46 AM

diabetic II but untreated for 2 decades under doctor care. Doc was pill pushing. As soon as I fixed my cholesterol with food and off prescription doc says oh, your sugar is high. Let's put u on insulin . I said no Ty.

New doctor doesn't want me in ketosis. Dangerous for type II? Idk.

Really appreciate your posts. Informative!!!

**tarmyg** · 07-04-2015, 06:03 AM

Originally Posted by GirlyGymRat

New doctor doesn't want me in ketosis. Dangerous for type II? Idk.

Never heard this before so I am going to read up on it and also talk to some of my Doctor friends to treat T2D with a zero carb approach. I am trying to understand how Ketosis and T2D is related and how Ketosis would affect it, just got no clue at this time.

**Arete** · 07-04-2015, 07:05 AM

Ketosis is definitely treating type 2 diabetes from everything I have been reading over the last 2 years. It's about the body losing its ability to regulate insulin mostly due to continued sugar or carb intake. There are many site just type in Ketosis and type 2 diabetes. With type 2 diabetes being the second most treated disease and Alzheimer's and other brain ailments rising it appears being keto has many benefits.

It is a different concept of eating especially for body building types since in my self experiment it doesn't put on mass efficiently as carbs but works well for cutting or losing weight.

**Arete** · 07-04-2015, 07:43 AM

GirlyGymRat

I saw you also posted about macro break down on low carb in the cutting post on this forum. The break down for ketosis which is ultimately what that person is getting into when he says fat adapted is at a minimum 65% fat/ 30% protein and 5% carbs.

Now he is using it to cut while you or others myself included want to treat or prevent ailments such as type 2 diabetes,cancer or brain ailments. To effectively get into ketosis pretty much zero carb makes it faster. Increasing fat to 75% and intermediate fasting cardio really gets it going. There is an adapting phase that can take up to 3 weeks.

It sound hard to eat that much fat and also we are talking healthy fats in the keto community would be omega 3 saturated so grass fed meats, coconut and avocado. So what does it look like with real food.

Whole eggs with yolk - 65% fat
Almonds many nuts 63%-70% fat
Avocado - 83% fat
Bacon - 70% fat

If you cook thing in butter or coconut oil you can easily eat 75% fat diet. People start to worry at this point about cholesterol but dietary cholesterol is a myth. The FDA finally came out this year admitting that 40 years of telling us this was wrong.

I am not sure how the PM thing works but if anyone is interested and wants to send me there email address I'll send a few quick PDFs that can help explain Ketosis and Low carb eating. If not a few suggestion below.

Lyle Mcdonald ketogenic diet. Previous body builder that wrote a very science book all the way back in the 90's on this before it's now a main stream topic.

Keto Clarity by Jimmy Moore.

Tim Noakes from South Africa promotes a Banting diet which is the same thing. Also excellent podcast which hits many Q&A.

**uhit** · 07-04-2015, 08:23 AM

I personally get bloated easily on carbs so it does affect the way my body looks during the day.

But next morning I usually look fine so it doesn't really bother me unless I'm going to the beach that day but I personally enjoy higher fat macros (Scrambled eggs and nuts all day) with carbs around my workouts.

As of late I'm pretty much sedentary with no lifting, just bodyweight things so I probably am leaning toward keto now.

**mattybee123** · 07-05-2015, 06:41 AM

On my first real cut I tried carbs under 50g and honestly couldn't handle it. The late night cravings and lethargy was too much for me. Instead I left them around 100g and found this much more beneficial just really upped my cardio from 1 hour p/d to 1.5 hours and on days i cheated i increased cardio further. Hope this helps