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Thread: How Much Air is Needed (to cause death)

  1. #41
    platinumm is offline New Member
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    How much air

    Just fyi but it takes roughly an equal amount of air to fill one chamber of the heart (atria or ventricle) and the air is not added over a duration of time, In other words, it take a bolus of air to do this, not several bubbles..just thought this would help.
    Ed (ARNP)

  2. #42
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    why is the air not added over a duration of time?

  3. #43
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    Exclamation Air into a vein.....

    Wish i had read this a while ago because i did try this method of suicide some time ago using a 30cc syringe and a 25g 1" needle head. At first i tried a slin pin and it couldnt push the air fast enough or at all.(first mistake). Secondly after i switched needle heads, i tried 15 cc's of air first. Made my lungs heavy and hard to breath but my heart felt fine and it passed shortly. I gave it one last shot and pumped the whole 30cc's as fast as i could and all i got was heavier lungs, shorter breath and if i tried to talk it was very slow.

    This was a learning experience and even seems so stupid that one could fail at suicide when ur sure of ur method.
    Obviously im plenty alive and i have even tried oil and water and i believe the 5cc's of oil was probably the worst because my heart felt VERY heavy, then the lungs, then hard to breathe. 30cc's might have done it but im past that stage.
    After having a new baby boy in my life with my fiance and some help from a doc im ok.
    Hope this adds to this thread for the future readers that this method doesnt work and just suck it up and move on in life!!
    Thanks bros for reading.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by FREAKZILLLA
    Wish i had read this a while ago because i did try this method of suicide some time ago using a 30cc syringe and a 25g 1" needle head. At first i tried a slin pin and it couldnt push the air fast enough or at all.(first mistake). Secondly after i switched needle heads, i tried 15 cc's of air first. Made my lungs heavy and hard to breath but my heart felt fine and it passed shortly. I gave it one last shot and pumped the whole 30cc's as fast as i could and all i got was heavier lungs, shorter breath and if i tried to talk it was very slow.

    This was a learning experience and even seems so stupid that one could fail at suicide when ur sure of ur method.
    Obviously im plenty alive and i have even tried oil and water and i believe the 5cc's of oil was probably the worst because my heart felt VERY heavy, then the lungs, then hard to breathe. 30cc's might have done it but im past that stage.
    After having a new baby boy in my life with my fiance and some help from a doc im ok.
    Hope this adds to this thread for the future readers that this method doesnt work and just suck it up and move on in life!!
    Thanks bros for reading.
    Were you on any gear while you were in this stage ?

  5. #45
    spasov is offline New Member
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    Thanks a lot for all the posts. Come to think that I used to let out some of the oil just to remove a tiny bubble left beneath the pin and now I see this was not necessary. Plus the fact that I aspirate every time...

  6. #46
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    wow. i havent cycled yet but that has always been a fear of mine.

    - SC

  7. #47
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    Interesting

  8. #48
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    Is this info about IV or IM injections?

    And could someone please clarify if the effect is additive?Every time you inject the total amount of air in body is increased or the body breaks it down somehow??

  9. #49
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    No, no, no....

    The correct answer for an adult is at least 20cc injected intra-VENOUSly for a significant air embolism. The lung can and will clear smaller bubbles without difficulty. That's rare that even that amt would cause a problem, usually takes about 100cc or more - probably depends on one's underlying Lung function.

    Also, between 9-27% of people have a "Patent Foramen Ovale" which is a hole present from birth between the left and right atrium for fetal circulation, which in these people never closes over. If someone has a PFO, a venous air embolism could go into the left atrium and become ARTERIAL which is much much worse.

    Injecting air Intra-ARTERIALly is another story, a very small amount, 1-3cc could cause an embolism and prevent blood flow distal to the embolism, which could possibly result in tissue death of the tissue supplied, unless there is adequate collateral circulation.

    Take home lessons:
    1. Don't inject Arteries under any circumstances. The way to avoid this is ALWAYS draw back after you get into the muscle before you inject to see if your in a vein or an artery. If some blood comes back - A vein has darker, free flowing blood, an artery has brighter red, pulsatile flowing blood. In either case, come out with needle and hold some pressure.
    2. Don't inject Veins either for any AAS or other compounds - they are all either Intra muscular or Sub cutaneous.
    3. Try not to inject air anyway, but unless your in an artery, which is pretty hard to do if you're injecting in one of the approved injection sites, you will be OK

    Signs of a significant venous air embolism are hyptotension (causing dizziness or fainting) and possibly arrythmias.
    Last edited by TranscriptionFactor; 08-02-2008 at 12:52 PM. Reason: did some more research

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by TranscriptionFactor View Post
    No, no, no....

    The correct answer for an adult is at least 20cc injected intra-VENOUSly for a significant air embolism. The lung can and will clear smaller bubbles without difficulty. That's rare that even that amt would cause a problem, usually takes about 100cc or more - probably depends on one's underlying Lung function.

    Also, between 9-27% of people have a "Patent Foramen Ovale" which is a hole present from birth between the left and right atrium for fetal circulation, which in these people never closes over. If someone has a PFO, a venous air embolism could go into the left atrium and become ARTERIAL which is much much worse.

    Injecting air Intra-ARTERIALly is another story, a very small amount, 1-3cc could cause an embolism and prevent blood flow distal to the embolism, which could possibly result in tissue death of the tissue supplied, unless there is adequate collateral circulation.

    Take home lessons:
    1. Don't inject Arteries under any circumstances. The way to avoid this is ALWAYS draw back after you get into the muscle before you inject to see if your in a vein or an artery. If some blood comes back - A vein has darker, free flowing blood, an artery has brighter red, pulsatile flowing blood. In either case, come out with needle and hold some pressure.
    2. Don't inject Veins either for any AAS or other compounds - they are all either Intra muscular or Sub cutaneous.
    3. Try not to inject air anyway, but unless your in an artery, which is pretty hard to do if you're injecting in one of the approved injection sites, you will be OK

    Signs of a significant venous air embolism are hyptotension (causing dizziness or fainting) and possibly arrythmias.
    Saved to my harddrive.. very good info.. Thank you

  11. #51
    musclespawn is offline New Member
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    one of the most important life saving tips, never ever inject air into your muscle or to any part of yourself... be sure the needle is bubble/air free when injecting, let the oil/liquid drip and coat the needle a bit for a painless and airfree injecting..

  12. #52
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    Injecting air into the muscle is not going to cause an embolism, pulminary or others.
    I know of one clinical case that took 200cc and 36hrs to kill this guy and one documented attempted murder case, that 200cc didn't kill.

  13. #53
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    This one time I got really high and then only realised that I needed to shoot that night. So thinking I could do it, I loaded my syringe, stuck it in and started shooting. I only realised half way through shooting that the syringe was full of air! around 3ml. Anyway i finnished the shot and for about 3 days i had an air bubble in my ass which was very uncomfortable. I will obviously never do it again. but this is just to inform you that I never died or had any serious problems.

  14. #54
    johnnybigguns is offline Banned
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    You need 3cc's of air straight into your vein to cause death

  15. #55
    LEGBREAKER123 is offline New Member
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    Im a EMT you would need like 10cc to in the vein to get any reaction. Not much to worry about.

  16. #56
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    Did you two bother reading this thread at all?

  17. #57
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    A couple of good posts in a sea of misinformation... Take everything I say here with a grain of salt, but I am claiming to be an RN, and I have given hundreds of injections IM, SubQ, ID, and have inserted hundreds of IVs..... Again, this is not professional advice, just an internet anecdotal info.

    An IV line can run dry for quite some time before there are any problems... This happens frequently in 3rd world countries without infusion pumps. It is important not to let it happen, but it does. Usually, the alarming looking backflow of blood will get the client or their family to holler for a nurse to stop the flow rate.

    We aspirate the syringe to see if you are in a vein or artery. Not to remove air...

    You would have to have a very large syringe, say more than 20cc in a vein to have the chance of air embolism. And that 20cc better all go in at once, very fast push. Even then, I would say most would not be affected, especially a 200lb BB, etc. If you actually manage to shoot 20 cc into your artery, you could also have problemsas well, but to hit one of these deep structures is mathematically hard, especially when you are using the preferred sites. No reasonable amount of air in your subQ or your muscle will cause an air embolism. It just doesn't work that way. Look at it this way, surgeons in the OR sew people up with all kinds of empty spaces, especially in abdominal procedures.

    Push exactly the amount of air you want in your syringe, into the vial, when it comes back into the syringe, you will have the exact amount. There is always a little waste, and I can't imagine people willfully injecting a bit of air to push every bit in. The risk, the pain and the borther cannot be worth it.

    holding the syringe upright, flick the vial when you have drawn up your meds to knock out the airbubbles, then push your meds up until you get a small squirt out the top (you can also do this with the needle still in the vial if you care that much about each mcg, but this amount is relatively insignificant). The best way to hit muscle is upper outer glute. Hit that siatic in the middle, and you could be in trouble. The next best site for IM is delt. Swab with alcohol alow to airdry for a couple of seconds, use a "dart" movement when going in. Brace the syringe in place and pull back on the plunger, if blood comes in, immediately withdraw, and you can re inject on the other side (in hospital settings, we discard and start over, but that is not really necessary in home use). Don't be afraid to really aspirate. If you are in muscle, there will be a "vacuum" that once you release the plunger, will go right back. IM pushes depend entirely on how irritating the meds are that you are pushing. Also, large volumes just hurt more, because you are slightly traumatizing your tissue.

  18. #58
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    Up to 15cc(20cc to be exact but I stay safe ) in vein at once is safe zone for human.

    We had to inject 60cc in rabbit once we finished "operation" (placing gastrostomia) to stop his heart. I never liked it. Idea of killing someone to help someone is unethic to me (and we can talk about asset for medical students from this killing beside good rabbit diner with all "good" anesthetic in it... full stomach and nice high ).

    But this is my experience. And dont afraid about boubles in your syringe its completly safe in vein and absolutly safe in muscle.

  19. #59
    Chicagoo is offline New Member
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    You can shoot air into your veins and u won’t die - I seen it done before and it wasn’t just a little bit of air. If you’re shooting it into muscle you don’t have to worry about air; however I would imagine if you got enough air in there it would hurt like hell.

    lostnode
    Last edited by Chicagoo; 05-01-2009 at 05:51 AM.

  20. #60
    djkalashnikov is offline New Member
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    great post just on my 3rd ever injection and this takes a load off my mind!!
    good to know

  21. #61
    Test 01 is offline New Member
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    thanks for posting

  22. #62
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    good post

  23. #63
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    All I can say, after having read it throughout, is that this thread was very funny.

  24. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicagoo View Post
    You can shoot air into your veins and u won’t die - I seen it done before and it wasn’t just a little bit of air. If you’re shooting it into muscle you don’t have to worry about air; however I would imagine if you got enough air in there it would hurt like hell.

    lostnode
    I would bet 10.000US$ but you have to do it in front of me and nearby a hospital.

    PS
    I was forgetting, you gimme the bucks first.

  25. #65
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    IV line will not affect a healthy person... I have seen many student's forget to bleed an IV line before starting and nothing happened.

    An old frail person may be a different story..

  26. #66
    drae is offline New Member
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    Oh my gosh.
    I forgot to tap the needle before i injected today...
    Am i gonna die???

  27. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by drae View Post
    Oh my gosh.
    I forgot to tap the needle before i injected today...
    Am i gonna die???
    If this is a joke, try the lounge.
    if this is serious, try reading the thread you bumped.

  28. #68
    drae is offline New Member
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    IM NOT JOKING MAN...
    IT WAS JUST 1 NEEDLE.
    MY FIRST CYCLE.

    BUT I JUST READ

    According to the artice one would need approximately 40cc over a very short period (roughly 1s or less).


    SO I SHOULD BE FINE RIGHT?

  29. #69
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    you would need substantially more air than your syringe would hold to cause an air embolism, you're fine.

  30. #70
    drae is offline New Member
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    Sorry I'm really new to this.
    Thanks alot man I know I sound like a real jackass.
    I started to feel weird so I even called my mom and told her I love her.

  31. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by drae View Post
    Sorry I'm really new to this.
    Thanks alot man I know I sound like a real jackass.
    I started to feel weird so I even called my mom and told her I love her.
    don't feel like a jackass, we were all new at some point, and telling your mom you love her is never a bad idea. chances are most of us should do that more often. best of luck to you.

  32. #72
    drae is offline New Member
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    That is true.
    Well I'm grateful that you were here at this time to help me.
    Thanks alot.

  33. #73
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    Thanks for this post, there is so much to learn here!

  34. #74
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    Quick and probably stupid question, when we push back our syringe to see if any blood gets in, and then we inject into the muscle, doesn't that put a certain amount of air into our bodies?

  35. #75
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    No, because you are just creating a vacuum.

  36. #76
    lankykid234 is offline New Member
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    Mind=Blown

  37. #77
    tonyinnh is offline Junior Member
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    3cc in a vien.. not a muscle my nurse said air bubbles in a oil injection are normal.. nothing to worry about,, mine usually has some little bubbles,,

  38. #78
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    This would on.matter iii you injected directly into a vain right?

  39. #79
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    aspirating

    Thank for the post. Really eases the mind when it comes to air bubbles. I have seen the same thing happen when aspirating. I get an air bubble and no blood, is this normal?

  40. #80
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    That is normal. It isn't actually air, it is vacuum.

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