Somebody clear this up for me...

[PFT50K]

I DO NOT understand all these idiots asking about OR giving they're past/current/future cycles of (from a therapeutic standpoint) MASSIVE amounts of 2-4 kinds of steroids (often age below 25). The end result of this abuse of an otherwise wonderful drug (various Test esters) is basically the same results a BB would get IF he just busted his ass using a sound training regimen (for me its PFT). The major difference I see is NO ONE knows what the long term effects will be of androgen abuse. Take a look at some of the 80's pros today...they look like shit. Anyone here knows the levels of abuse by the 80's PROS was NOTHING compared to amount that the average wannabe (and ain't EVER gonna go pro) amateur uses. Why is this??? I wanna be a product of hard ass, gut busting, bar bending iron pumping. < This ain't "old school" BS. It's common sense.

Therpeutic dosages for a man my age (37) make sense. Almost any man naturally produces LESS test at 37 than he did at 27, that's indisputable fact.

The majority of gains made by supra-levels of androgen use WILL be lost eventually (maybe wks, definitely w/in months after cessation. This board is incredible (probably THE best) in regards to real world steroid use . There are dudes here whose knowledge of AAS eclipses that of even respected private practice Ivy League educated Endrcrinologists. This knowledge ONLY comes from first hand experience and since a long term study of AAS use would be illegal it is 100% impossible to come by this knowledge any other way.

I just don't understand (maybe cuz I'm older) this "win at all costs" mindset when it comes to causing permanent damage using AAS. WHy?????

[Kroms_laugh]

Some people are willing to cross that line. My favorite, most self-descructive quote was "die young, die hard, dianabol ".

I am a third generation bodybuilder and third generation hypogonadal (anyone see a connection here?). I'm not blaming my father and grandfather for my condition, as I'm sure genetics have played a roll in a weak hereditary endocrine system. But the use of androgens outside of professional bodybuilding back then (1960's) was fairly mild, yet people still made wonderful gains.

Chances are, you won't hear me say this on another board or outside this forum due to flaming I would recieve; slightly higher than HRT doses of testosterone for longer periods of time wields the same results as 500mg for 10 weeks. I gained 32 pounds of lean mass in my first 5 months of testosterone. Granted, I was t deficient to begin with, but those results could only be dreamed of in the minds of those preaching 12 weeks of testosterone @ 1gram/week.

I agree with you 100%... kids these days want to load up on AAS and not have to acclimate their bodies to training muscle groups twice per week. The pain should be in the gym, the food should be on your plate and infront of your face every 3 hours, and your sleep should rival that of grizzly bears during the cold season. A great diet, routine, and rest regimen with the slight aid of AAS is far superior to a mediocre diet, routine, and rest regimen with tons of AAS.

The recognition of HRT in the bodybuilding community IS making people more aware of just how powerful androgens are.