Brand New Guy Here.... Freaked Out!

[Spyke]

I went to the doc last week for a checkup. I am turing 34 next month and everytime I see him he tells me it would be a good idea to get a full checkup with all the blood tests etc. So after putting it off for a few years, I went in last week.

I told him I had been lifting weights pretty seriously for about the last year. I asked him about my nipples which appear a bit puffy every now and again. I also told him I really feel tired alot and the sex drive is not what it used to be. If I lift at night I am really dragging. I asked for a testosterone blood test (as long as they were doing the other blood tests) and he said he really didn't think I had any problems with test but if it would make me feel better he would order it.

I have never used any steroids or prohormones, just protein, aminos, creatine and the usual stuff.

The nurse called today to say that they got the results. CBC and all the tests were normal, cholesteral was borderline (have to cut down on red meat) but the normal range for testosterone was 280-800. Mine came back at 172! HOLY CRAP!

He wants to do the test a 2nd time to confirm but what the hell? I have been making gains which I thought were pretty good and getting bigger. Makes me wonder what the gains would be if I actually had normal levels.

I guess if the 2nd test comfirms it he will put me on testosterone. I don't want to be on HRT for life but I can't even remember when I didn't feel run down and sluggish all the time, so I don't want that either.

Scary thing is what would my levels have been if I didn't lift 3 times a week because they say lifting weights naturally increases them.

Here are some questions

My nipples get a bit puffy at times. Seems to go away when I lift and get pumped. Could this be caused by the low test? Could I have estrogen probs?

I have never been able to grow a beard. Got hair on my chin and in spots on my face. If I dont shave for a week you barely notice. Could this mean I have had low levels my whole life?

I have put on some size (about 3/4") on my biceps and about 1.5" on my chest since I started lifting last year. What would I have done with normal levels??

[ThrottleKing]

172! No wonder you feel tired. For the record, everyone the test level is different and has different effects on the body. I was in the low 200's and felt like crap ALL the time. One day after the test my body started to feel better but lots of people including myself attribute this to the placebo effect of finally getting some relief.

I could safely say if I was at 172 I'd probably been laid up with lack of energy. But you seem to be functioning a little better.

Low doses of test aren't going to do anything but replace what you are normally lacking but I've been researching side effects and long term use will most likely have them. Right now I'm just really watching how my body reacts to the test because my mind is really feeling a lot better on it.

As far as the nipples go I would assume low testosterone could lead to a natural gyno situation because of higher levels of estrogen, but I'm no expert by any means. What I'm learning I'm reading on this board and others.

Hope some of that helps...

[Ufa]

When you go back to get testosterone tested ask for an estrogen level. If it is high get an aromatase inhibitor. I use arimidex . It will reduce estrogen by
up to 80% and increase test levels a few hundred points.

[cmax]

As far as the nipples go I would assume low testosterone could lead to a natural gyno situation because of higher levels of estrogen, but I'm no expert by any means.

Low Test does not necessarily mean high estrogen. Testosterone is needed for aromatase to make estrogen. So low test often also means low estrogen.

However you need to look at things in terms of ratios. Your test could be low and your estrogen could be moderate and be able to produce undesired effects since the androgens to estrogens balance is off and in favor of estrogen. On the flip side you could have low test and the balance of androgens to estrogens could be perfectly fine, just both could be lower than normal.

It varies from person-to-person. The aromatase enzyme lives in fatty tissue, so I would say that if you are a relatively skinny dude (by nature) with low test than your probably also have low estrogen, but if you are a fat dude (by nature) with low test then you probably have high estrogen in relation to your total test and DHT levels.

[cmax]

I also told him I really feel tired alot and the sex drive is not what it used to be. If I lift at night I am really dragging.

How long have you had these symptoms?

The nurse called today to say that they got the results.... the normal range for testosterone was 280-800. Mine came back at 172! HOLY CRAP!

What time of day did you take this test? Testosterone fluxuates anywhere from 200-300% depending on the time of day. See the chart below. Testosterone levels peak in the middle of the night and are highest in the morning. In the afternoon and early evening it drops to it's lowest level.



Have you had any other symptoms of low testosterone ? Did you experience any hot flashes? This is a major sign of very low test.

You need to have the doctor measure your LH and FSH levels as well. If it's a matter of low LH then it's not your testicles that are a problem, it's your pituitary gland. If this is the case they can prescribe something to raise your LH levels which will restore your own testicular function to normal levels. I would have much more testing done before you jump into a TRT/HRT program. Go to an endocrinologist.

I have never been able to grow a beard. Got hair on my chin and in spots on my face. If I dont shave for a week you barely notice. Could this mean I have had low levels my whole life?

Possibly, but probably not. If you had low test your entire life your body would be used to the low test levels and you would not feel more sluggish or tired at 34 than you did at a younger age. Since these symptoms are coming on now I would say that your test levels recently dropped.

Perhaps it's only temporary, caused by some deficiency, perhaps it's permanent. Here's a thought a zinc deficiency could cause low test. People who are active and work out frequently require more zinc. After you started working out your zinc levels might have dropped also causing your test to fall. This is *probably* not the case, but something along this line would be possible. I am just trying to put you in the right frame of mind to think about all possible causes and options rather than just trying to dive into a program.

I have been making gains which I thought were pretty good and getting bigger. Makes me wonder what the gains would be if I actually had normal levels.

I have put on some size (about 3/4") on my biceps and about 1.5" on my chest since I started lifting last year. What would I have done with normal levels??

Your gains would probably only be slightly more than they are now. There is no real way of knowing. People consider testosterone the holy grail of gaining LBM, but it's not the only factor. Plenty of people with low test levels, women, castrates, etc. are able to build LBM with low test levels. I would say that diet is the first and foremost factor in building LBM. It takes longer for people with low test to build LBM, but it still does happen.

[Spyke]

How long have you had these symptoms?

Probably a couple years at least. I really figured I may be out of shape so that is one of the things that got me back into working out again.

What time of day did you take this test?

10 am for the first test. I go in tomorrow at 7:45 for another one.

Have you had any other symptoms of low testosterone ?

Sex drive is not what it used to be, tired all the time, doc put me on xanax last year (only when needed and not every day) for some anxiety related issues, belly fat has been hard to get rid of even with lifting and cardio.

Did you experience any hot flashes?

Not really

I am going to be sure that they test tomorrow for the LH and estrogen as well as test and free test.

[cmax]

I am going to be sure that they test tomorrow for the LH and estrogen as well as test and free test.

Have them test for the following:

Total testosterone
Free testosterone
Estradiol (Estrogen)
DHT
LH
FSH
DHEA-s
IGF-1
Progesterone/Prolactin

[RONINASAUNA]

what is an appropriate Test/estrogen ratio?

[Ufa]

I've never heard of ant ratio in regards to test est. If your estro level is over
130 it is out of range. Case closed.

[cmax]

what is an appropriate Test/estrogen ratio?

The normal range for total testosterone levels is between 241-829 ng/mL for men of all ages based on the labcorp scale.

The normal range for free testosterone levels is between 9.3-26.5 pg/mL for men of all ages based on the labcorp scale.

The normal range for total estradiol levels is between 40-115 ng/mL for men of all ages based on the labcorp scale.

The normal range for DHT levels is between 30-85 ng/mL for men of all ages based on the labcorp scale.

I am not sure of the exact equation that endo's use to calculate the androgens to estrogens ratio, but it is based on the total test, free test, DHT, and estradiol levels. The test and DHT levels need to be in balance with the estrogen levels.

[eisenmench]

Thanks cmax for the info. I was saving up for a trip to sweden because of my low test and NO libido. I went instead to an HRT clinic and we are still balancing the hormone levels. It takes patience. Good advice for spyke. Don't give up!