New Blood Work With High Estro!!!!!!

**zaggahamma** · 07-20-2006, 01:05 PM

Well, been on Test Cyp for about a month...Week 1 (200mg), week 2 (300 mg), week 3 (400mg)...anyone seeing a pattern here? LOL Actually never planned on taking more than that for a while, much

Now, I know why a lot of ppl are taking AI's even b4 they check estro. Mine was 65...a bit out of range from the high (53).
The doc writes a name of a over the counter product 60X0 that he says some of his ppl are taking for breast cancer or something like that. Well I ask, " You can't write a RX for something, how much is this 60X0?" He's like, is money an issue? I said, HELL FVCKIN YEH, I AINT A DOCTOR, TOO

Still nothin

I call the number for the Heath Center wrote for the 60X0....It's like 41 bucks a month and says it works. PPl come in with gyno and levels like 100 and are being helped. Then he said something else is coming in that's stronger ESA stack or something. Anybody here of these over the counter estro reducers?

Am I in bad need of an AI with my 65?
My total test was 1315 and free test was 52 on a range of 8.7-25. I gave the blood when I was taking 300 mg/wk of the cyp.
Could I have experience better LBM/Strength gains if I was running the estro block the whole time?

THANKS

**Ufa** · 07-20-2006, 02:25 PM

edit

**zaggahamma** · 07-20-2006, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by Ufa

jpkman-

Free test is cool. Total test is even cooler. Estro 65=bad.

Call OASIS and talk to your (person) they got AI's.

You don't want (gyno). Does your insurance pay for Doc perscribed
meds. PM me!

yeh but doc wouldn't scribe anything....gave me over counter remedy suggestion

**Spyke** · 07-20-2006, 06:06 PM

You can order Arimidex from AR. Like 30 bucks for a bottle.......

**zaggahamma** · 07-20-2006, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by Spyke

You can order Arimidex from AR. Like 30 bucks for a bottle.......

that doesn't sound too bad spyke....i haven't even had much time to research it now that i NEED it...i only skimmed over the profiles but hear ppl talkin 'bout takin all the time
i was going to figure out which one best 4 me....seems like there are a lot to chose from Letro, arimidex , nolva, clomid, am i gettin this wrong? I'm getting ready to go to the profiles and check em out again, but any advice is very appreciated
oh, and i guess there are not 100% legal?

Are they like a steroid or something

**zaggahamma** · 07-20-2006, 07:09 PM

well, i had it narrowed down to nolva and arimidex cause letro seemed like it would wipe out ALL estro and affect lipids negatively and they are heading that way from the test already....so it looks like the nolva will help the lipid and the estro?
bump

**Ufa** · 07-20-2006, 08:10 PM

edit

**Spyke** · 07-20-2006, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

that doesn't sound too bad spyke....i haven't even had much time to research it now that i NEED it...i only skimmed over the profiles but hear ppl talkin 'bout takin all the time
i was going to figure out which one best 4 me....seems like there are a lot to chose from Letro, arimidex , nolva, clomid, am i gettin this wrong? I'm getting ready to go to the profiles and check em out again, but any advice is very appreciated
oh, and i guess there are not 100% legal?

Are they like a steroid or something

Not steroids . They are "research chemicals" technically. So if anyone asks they are really for your pet hamster.

**zaggahamma** · 07-20-2006, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by Spyke

Not steroids. They are "research chemicals" technically. So if anyone asks they are really for your pet hamster.

hamster? isn't that like a richard gere pet?

**zaggahamma** · 07-20-2006, 08:57 PM

Nolva seems like it could help with both my elevated estro and lipids....downside-IGF-1 reduction. Anyone know how much igf usually decreases with nolva and how high should igf be to be able to still make gains, etc.

**Mobligator** · 07-22-2006, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by jpkman

Well, been on Test Cyp for about a month...Week 1 (200mg), week 2 (300 mg), week 3 (400mg)...anyone seeing a pattern here? LOL Actually never planned on taking more than that for a while, much

Now, I know why a lot of ppl are taking AI's even b4 they check estro. Mine was 65...a bit out of range from the high (53).
The doc writes a name of a over the counter product 60X0 that he says some of his ppl are taking for breast cancer or something like that. Well I ask, " You can't write a RX for something, how much is this 60X0?" He's like, is money an issue? I said, HELL FVCKIN YEH, I AINT A DOCTOR, TOO

Still nothin

I call the number for the Heath Center wrote for the 60X0....It's like 41 bucks a month and says it works. PPl come in with gyno and levels like 100 and are being helped. Then he said something else is coming in that's stronger ESA stack or something. Anybody here of these over the counter estro reducers?

Am I in bad need of an AI with my 65?
My total test was 1315 and free test was 52 on a range of 8.7-25. I gave the blood when I was taking 300 mg/wk of the cyp.
Could I have experience better LBM/Strength gains if I was running the estro block the whole time?

THANKS

jkman,

In my humble opinion I think your testosterone is entirely too high and the excess is being aromatised into Estrogen. My advice would be to keep your testosterone level down to around 600 ng/dl. I used Test C and Test E for over 13 years and usually kept my level down around 500-600 and I felt great and my sex life was great. A few times I jacked it up to 1000-1100 to see if I could make any better gains in strength while weight lifting but it didn't help one iota. If you want to gain muscle mass or stength, nothing works better than an anabolic steroid . e.g. when I was 37 y/o I took Dianabol alone for only 30 days and my bench press went up by 110 lbs. I started taking Test C at the age of 55 and I have never had any results in strength that could even come close to using the Dianabol. A lot of people have this notion that if "some is good than more is better" but I don't believe it works that way with Testosterone. The body only has so many androgen receptors and when the molecules of test outnumber the androgen receptors the rest is wasted. I've read a lot of articles on this subject but one of the best can be found at:
http://www.avantlabs.com/main.php?issueID=13&pageID=129 --- by
Karl Hoffman, Avant Labs, article titled; Understanding Androgen Actions.

**zaggahamma** · 07-22-2006, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Mobligator

jkman,

In my humble opinion I think your testosterone is entirely too high and the excess is being aromatised into Estrogen. My advice would be to keep your testosterone level down to around 600 ng/dl. I used Test C and Test E for over 13 years and usually kept my level down around 500-600 and I felt great and my sex life was great. A few times I jacked it up to 1000-1100 to see if I could make any better gains in strength while weight lifting but it didn't help one iota. If you want to gain muscle mass or stength, nothing works better than an anabolic steroid . e.g. when I was 37 y/o I took Dianabol alone for only 30 days and my bench press went up by 110 lbs. I started taking Test C at the age of 55 and I have never had any results in strength that could even come close to using the Dianabol. A lot of people have this notion that if "some is good than more is better" but I don't believe it works that way with Testosterone. The body only has so many androgen receptors and when the molecules of test outnumber the androgen receptors the rest is wasted. I've read a lot of articles on this subject but one of the best can be found at:
http://www.avantlabs.com/main.php?issueID=13&pageID=129 --- by
Karl Hoffman, Avant Labs, article titled; Understanding Androgen Actions.

man mobligator, i think you just shed a lot of light for me....i had only done gear one time b4 this TRT. I'm 37 now, and when i was 'round 20....i did test cyp and anadrol ....had about the same results you just mentioned and I was a lazy fvcker back then...my work ethic is quadrupled since then and with all this extra test i'm shooting i have probably only went up 10-15 pounds on bench in 2-3 months at the most.
Do you think I will still need to get the estro down first. Any experience with your estro levels when you mentioned increasing your test levels and I thought test was an anabolic product.
What are/is the best in your opinion?
thanks again

**Ufa** · 07-22-2006, 09:30 AM

edit

**zaggahamma** · 07-22-2006, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Ufa

You are right about the aromatization of test to estro. This little problem can be taken care of instantly. I use Arimidex .

There is an over looked ratio of test to estro. To much estro and a low ratio will do nothing for the body builder. Lower the estro and increase the estro and you got rocket fuel.

ufa, buddy, you do mean lower the estro and increase the test?

**balin** · 07-22-2006, 10:47 AM

My understanding is, is if the body sences to much E2 then it will shut down T production. And hi E2 levels can destroy libido etc.

**zaggahamma** · 07-22-2006, 10:58 AM

well, haven't been producing too much T lately....just been shootin it from a syringe
bump....
Is lots of test with estro blocker as good or close to anabolic steroid ?

**Ufa** · 07-22-2006, 11:32 AM

edit

**zaggahamma** · 07-22-2006, 03:28 PM

well, i have an appt. with endo at the end of this month, but he doesn't know about the estro being high....he never wanted to check my estro b4 but i convinced him to and it came back low normal (19)...but uro had it checked this time and i've been takin all that cyp....my uro should have prescribed something...i asked FOR SURE...this guy is a BB himself...fvckin forearms all shaved...says he has a contest....AND HE GIVES ME AN OVER THE COUNTER RECIPE? 60X0...Priced at a nearby store for 40 bucks...I'm gonna check eBay. I don't think I can show endo estro, he'll se the test level too!
So high test, low estro good enough for little better gains? 5-10lbs. LBM in a year?

**Mobligator** · 07-22-2006, 07:33 PM

jpkman,

Any experience with your estro levels when you mentioned increasing your test levels and I thought test was an anabolic product.
What are/is the best in your opinion?

I've never had my Estrogen tested. All the quacks I went to only checked my Testosterone , LH, FSH and Prolactin. Next time I go to my VA doc I'm going to ask him to check my Estrogen. I never knew it could cause so many problems. All I ever heard about was the bitch tits.

Testosterone is definitely anabolic but it is primarily androgenic . When they invented anabolic steroids (a derivative of test) they chemically altered them to be more anabolic and less androgenic. If you want to enhance your atheletic performance the anabolic steroids are far better then just test. but most bodybuilders and weight lifters stack them. There's a synergistic effect using them together but as a young man, I had enough natuaral test and the dianabol worked wonders. Eventually tho, the roids will shut down your natural test and then I suppose you'll need to either stack them or go off them, although I don't know what it would be like to just stay on the roids once your body stopped making test. I never stayed on them for more than a couple months, give or take a week or two. One time I got drug induced jaundice from the roids and the doc thought I had hepatitis. Funny thing tho, he checked me for hepatitis and here I had antibodies in my blood that indicated that I did have hepatitis at sometime in my life and I never knew it.

**balin** · 07-23-2006, 10:40 AM

On hrt my e2 levels are at the bottom of the range, 20. And that is with no anti-e's. At much higher t levels 1.5mg spread through out the week keep me at an even lower level.

**zaggahamma** · 07-23-2006, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by balin

On hrt my e2 levels are at the bottom of the range, 20. And that is with no anti-e's. At much higher t levels 1.5mg spread through out the week keep me at an even lower level.

Balin, are you saying you are taking more T or your blood T levels are higher? 1.5 mg spread through out the week sounds like you might have meant 1.5 grams a week?

**Ufa** · 07-23-2006, 02:14 PM

edit

**zaggahamma** · 07-23-2006, 02:28 PM

Ufa, although the deca is decreasing your test level, the compound itself is providing you more of an anabolic effect...i'm trying to figure out if i should run something other than just the test and AI?

**Ufa** · 07-23-2006, 02:40 PM

edit

**balin** · 07-23-2006, 11:28 PM

I meant that on a 100mg/week of test cyp my e2 levels are around 20. And when I am using much more T then that 1.5mg/week of arimedex keeps my e2 levels below 20. sorry for the confusion.

**zaggahamma** · 07-24-2006, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by balin

I meant that on a 100mg/week of test cyp my e2 levels are around 20. And when I am using much more T then that 1.5mg/week of arimedex keeps my e2 levels below 20. sorry for the confusion.

thanks for the clarification

**tres** · 08-08-2006, 01:06 PM

great post lets keep it going ..i am on .30mgs of test prop eod for trt. my estradial was 48 range 0-55 . last losing libido...was great till i saw blood work. would .50 mgs of arimedex eod work for me??

**zaggahamma** · 08-08-2006, 01:42 PM

i'll have a couple of posts coming up with some new estro figures with taking the over the counter estro blocker/test booster
bump

**Mobligator** · 08-09-2006, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Ufa

I think Mobligator hit the nail on the head. He was talking about a dianabol
cycle he did many moons ago. He stated, "I have never had any results that
came close to dianabol." I think Var is a close cousin, however, you need
at least 50mg a day. Big bucks for any body. Just hearing him talk about
dianabol makes me want to reach out. I remember just being pumped. I mean
you work out and feel pumped, and it doesn't go down.

To your question. Yes, first cycle should always be test. Second cycle
is up to you. Better results if you keep mixing things up. You get used
to compounds and don't get the full effect.

PS. I got this bill from LabCorp. 325 bucks for test and estradiol test. Gonna have to start my own lab.

My wife got a script from her doc for Winny a few weeks ago because she had lost some lean tissue and muscle in her upper body and wanted to get built back up. Took some coaxing but the doc finally gave in. (I think he likes her) When she took the scrip to the pharmacy they informed her that Winstol had been discontinued. She called the doc back and asked if she could get some Anavar instead and it also has been discontinued. However they have a new name for "oxandrolone" (chemical name for Var) called "Oxandrin". I checked with Drug Store.com and I believe the price was about 156.00 for 30 tabs. At the local Pharmacy here where we usually deal it was 180.00 for 30 tabs.
These people are nuts! They want over $5.00 a pill. But since we already had the script I told her to go ahead and get it and they don't write refills anymore on this type of drugs. She has been working out hard and hasn't gotten sore since the first W.O. so I guess its working pretty good for recovery. But when this is gone she'll have to do it clean, too much money for 30 pills.

**zaggahamma** · 08-09-2006, 12:22 PM

get her some more gator

**Mobligator** · 08-09-2006, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

get her some more gator

Ahh, I don't know Jpkman. I am hoping she can get it back in 30 days. I'm just a poor man, living on Soc. Sec. and a small IRA. I have VA medical care and Medicare but since the wife is younger (much younger)

she doesn't have any health insurance to speak of. She works part time and has a lousy partial plan that covers just a small portion of RX's.

Yea, I married a young thing, one of those WV girls, so I could raise her the way I wanted. On our first date I took her out to dinner, bought her a coca cola and a hot dog and we've been together ever since. Just kidding, I really bought her a 50 cent draught beer. I was a young, good looking 42 y/o and if I tell you her age she'll kill me.

Here she is 7 or 8 yrs ago, all natural. Did I make out or what?

**zaggahamma** · 08-09-2006, 02:36 PM

good for you gator....when i read your wife was taking winny i was like WHAT..I couldn't imagine my doll on gear...i had to laugh!
Oh, by the way doll is her nickname...she's real...LOL

**Mobligator** · 08-09-2006, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

good for you gator....when i read your wife was taking winny i was like WHAT..I couldn't imagine my doll on gear...i had to laugh!
Oh, by the way doll is her nickname...she's real...LOL

Winny has always been the preferred steroid for women, less androgenic . Var is a bit stronger but not too bad for women. My wife will only be on Oxandrin for a month but many moons ago she did try Winny. BTW, many, many moons ago I dated a girl named Doll. Was her real name too.

**zaggahamma** · 08-09-2006, 07:07 PM

I'll bet you did gator. Glad you're doin well

**Kale** · 08-09-2006, 07:18 PM

Dude I use A-dex for Estrogen and it is the best for that particular use. My test levels as you know were 4300 and my estrogen was 26 and thats taking 0.5mg A-dex ED

**cmax** · 08-09-2006, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by Kale

My test levels as you know were 4300 and my estrogen was 26
and thats taking 0.5mg A-dex ED

What cycle were you doing when your test levels were at 4300?

**Kale** · 08-09-2006, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by cmax

What cycle were you doing when your test levels were at 4300?

Man that was way towards the end when I was down to 500mg Test. I didnt measure it when I was doing 1.4 g Test and Deca and Var and Winny, now that would have been interesting.

**Spyke** · 08-10-2006, 04:45 PM

holy crap! How much size did you gain from that cycle?

**zaggahamma** · 08-11-2006, 04:28 PM

Well fellas...I was lucky enough to get my doc to send most recent bloodwork in the mail b4 I went over it with the doc(they usually won't do this..mishap maybe?)

Anyway, after being off the test cyp for 13 days and taking the 60X0 for only 2-3 days, my testo was down to 505 and estradiol down to 30....I was real happy with the fact that the estro went down..not sure how much had to do with stopping the test and/or starting the 60X0...since i only took that 60X0 for a few nights, although since I've been taking it, libido been right on. I'll check it again next week. I starting a new family doc and starting new insurance so i can order some MORE bloodwork. Now, I've been steady (last 2 weeks on 200mg Test, 150 mg Deca and the over the counter 60X0 estro blocker. I'll update in about a month.

I was real happy with my lipid profile as well: HDL was 61 (personal best) and LDL was only 92 (also personal best) and Triglyc 88. I was feeling shitty all that week of that bloodwork..it might have been anxiety due to my prostate biopsy procedure was that week too.

BUT....I noticed my LH and FSH were both <1 (out of range Low of course)...and it made me look back at past bloodwork this year and I noticed that they are usually low and one other time LH was low out of range again. What R the significance of these 2 figures?
Thanks

**Spyke** · 08-11-2006, 08:38 PM

LH is what your pituitary gland produces which tells your testes to make testosterone . You have been injecting test and that has casued your pituitary to stop telling the testes to produce testosterone.

I understand this is a normal effect of HRT. That is why when guys go off it they feel like crap. The pituitary is slow to start working again and sometimes never works again. It is like the thermostat and the testes are the furnace.