Thought I'd Pick your minds on this....

**thegarr** · 10-28-2006, 08:45 PM

I just registered on this site so sry if this isn't the right place for this post, seemed like it was.

i'm 27 years old, have been working out on off my whole life. I actually have 2 questions, first I have an issue with fat loss. I'm currently 210lbs, and sitting at around 23% BF, now most people would say if you want to reduce your BF% then just jump on a tredmill or a bike. I have no problem with this and rather enjoy my cardio, my problem is when my BF starts to decline I get quite a bit weaker. I don't feel as stable in my reps, (stabalisers) and dont' get any real good gains in weightlifting. When I stop working out for a month (and I gain BF% of course because of it) I feel strong and 'stable' again in my workouts. The diet I was on was being monitored by a professional (lose fat gain muscle type of diet, not really a 'diet' at all) so I was getting lots of food/proper calories, so I don't think that it was that. Any thoughts or answers why this might be happening to me? Or what I can do about it?

Now part 2 :P I've pretty well always known I have low test, and a funny thing is I just read a bunch of articles about single fathers having more of an issue with low lvl test to :P which I am as well. When I was 18 I tried noranadgren or something like that(can't quite remember), and I'm considering going on a cycle here in the near future. My problem is the lack of doctors in the area that wouldn't judge me if I asked for a blood test for monitoring purposes. How would any of you try to find a doctor for that purpose? I really dont' want to do anything unmonitored, but will again i guess if I have to. Also for myself what would you peoples recommend for a starting cycle (muscle gain but mainly cutting)

sry for the lengthy msg :P been watching the forum for a while just never registered

**zaggahamma** · 10-28-2006, 11:49 PM

welcome bro....if the docs are shiaty, there are a few labs that will do blood work without a RX and you can be your own doctor....Dr. Feelgood

**petrolv** · 10-29-2006, 12:09 PM

Are you just wantin to do a cycle with weight training to put on some mass and cut.......or are you looking at testosterone replacement therapy long term caus you are feeling symptoms of low T. My blood test showed low test levels and I recently went on trt for the duration. I also plan on doing some type of cycle on top of that maybe a year down the road after puttin a year of lifting in.
If you are having a problem with finding a doc look online for anti aging clinics. They have doctors and do your treatment long distance. The anti aging clinics are more geared for quality of life rather than just putting yur test levels within a specific range. They use blood tests and your input for what type of program you are intrested in. Here again they are individually different also based on what their medical philosophies are. Check Oasis which appears on this website frequently and AllThingsMale.com they are two of numerous legit anti aging clinics.

**Spyke** · 10-30-2006, 07:05 PM

What you are describing with the fat loss is totally normal. As you know, to build new muscle you need to take in more cals then you burn. When you cut the goal is basically just to maintain muscle while loosing fat. If your cal intake is too low, your body will burn muscle as fuel so try to stick to about 200-300 below maintenance to be safe. When doing cardio make sure your pulse stays in the fat burning range. If I remember correctly the formula is 220 X.7 -your age.

**Spyke** · 10-30-2006, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by petrolv

Check Oasis which appears on this website frequently and AllThingsMale.com they are two of numerous legit anti aging clinics.

I think Crisler would freak if he saw someone call him an "anti aging clinic"

**the_garr** · 11-02-2006, 08:37 PM

I think i'm just looking to put on some mass and cut at this point. What would you guys suggest for a cycle to accomplish this? If I had low test after going to the doctor then i would definatly consider therapy though. (I;m sure I do have low test)

**Spyke** · 11-03-2006, 07:50 PM

Dude you are not gonna put on mass AND cut. Sounds like you may just need some basic bodybuilding education. If you are asking these kinds of questions then then it shows you are nowhere near being ready to do any type of cycle of AAS.

**vermin** · 11-03-2006, 09:01 PM

First off, if you have low test then you don't need to consider a cycle - just tell your GP you want a referral to an endocrinologist.

Second it sounds like you have issues with your training. If you are naturally losing/cutting, then you will be generally catabolic and will not feel as strong, and will naturally lose some percentage of muscle with the fat. If you are doing things right, you will gain at a better muscle/fat ratio than when you lose, and that is how gains are made - in a nutshell.

At 210pounds and 23% BF one of your issues is simply that you do not have much muscle to begin with, so metabolically you don't have much LBM to burn calories.

An hour of cardio in the morning, at least 30 minutes of weight training 5 days a week, probably about 2500 calories with about 250g protein, 6 meals a day, etc. etc. - same as you'll see here in the diet section, etc.

Or you could ignore the fat issue and just focus on gaining LBM - then cutting later will be easier and also more gratifying because as you cut you'll be revealing something worth the effort instead of cutting to a pencil neck.

**the_garr** · 11-08-2006, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by Spyke

Dude you are not gonna put on mass AND cut. Sounds like you may just need some basic bodybuilding education. If you are asking these kinds of questions then then it shows you are nowhere near being ready to do any type of cycle of AAS.

what I meant was gain mass then cut, not at the same time. And you can gain mass and get cut to a point. My last 3 month comp I lost 15 lbs of fat and gained 4 lbs of muscle (measured with around the same water lvl in me) still only got 4th place though

**the_garr** · 11-08-2006, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by vermin

First off, if you have low test then you don't need to consider a cycle - just tell your GP you want a referral to an endocrinologist.

Second it sounds like you have issues with your training. If you are naturally losing/cutting, then you will be generally catabolic and will not feel as strong, and will naturally lose some percentage of muscle with the fat. If you are doing things right, you will gain at a better muscle/fat ratio than when you lose, and that is how gains are made - in a nutshell.

At 210pounds and 23% BF one of your issues is simply that you do not have much muscle to begin with, so metabolically you don't have much LBM to burn calories.

An hour of cardio in the morning, at least 30 minutes of weight training 5 days a week, probably about 2500 calories with about 250g protein, 6 meals a day, etc. etc. - same as you'll see here in the diet section, etc.

Or you could ignore the fat issue and just focus on gaining LBM - then cutting later will be easier and also more gratifying because as you cut you'll be revealing something worth the effort instead of cutting to a pencil neck.

this is exactly what i'm afraid of and realise, the last time i got tested I was at a 160lbs lean body mass! Now at that weight i was told i'd be dead :P but still thats DAMN small in my thinking for 5'11 ish.

I eat clean one 'cheat meal' a week on sundays, my diet if thats what you can call it is good, right now i don't eat to lose weight and won't start til after march or so if i even do at all this year.

About the cardio thing in the morning its not possiable with me, i'm a single father of a 5yr old boy and my gym doesn't have child care in the mornings. That means I cant' go for runs, I guess my only option is to get a tread mill which will cost me a couple grand. I know cardio on a empty stomach is teh best way though.

Question for you though, my old trainer said that the best way to loss fat a nd not lose muscle is to be at around 124 heart rate, this make sense to you ?? I don't get tired at all or even break a sweat after a hour.

**vermin** · 11-08-2006, 10:17 PM

They usually put it at around 65-70% of max HR, which is not much exertion really. I tend to find the recumbent bike works best to get and keep me in the FB HR zone. Running etc. tends to push it over.

I really don't have proof of this, but I think that if you are in really top cardio shape then your max HR is higher than would be predicted by age, so in that case your FB HR target might be a bit higher, too.