Newbie - please comment

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[Spyke]

Well what you are doing is a cycle of aas not really hrt. I am running a very similar cycle right now without the hgh.

I would take the arimidex at .5mg every day while on cycle. Otherwise it looks ok to me as a cycle. How long are you running that cycle?

Do you have your PCT worked out?

[SMAN12b]

Yeah, 400/week is a cycle dose not an HRT dose. How long you running this cycle?
How long you running HGH?

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[SMAN12b]

Well 400 is very high to be taking FOREVER!! normal HRT dose is about 100-150mgs/week.

Arimidex is an anti estrogen which will be needed to keep estrogen down and bloat off.

The physical benifits won't happen by magic. If you are not working out and on some type of diet, you won't get the full benifits of HRT. It should however increase your energy level and libido

2 iu's of HGH is a base amount. You wont' see anything from that for at least 6 months. if you can get him to work you up to 4-6 iu's that would be better, but still HGH is a long term drug

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[SMAN12b]

Well, YES arimidex is an anit E (anastrazol)

Test Cyp can take anywhere from 4-8 weeks to kick in so you should be feeling it soon.

as far as how long you run the 400, I couldn't comment since you truly are on HRT. Do you have an endo doc or just an hrt clinic?? I would think 10-12 weeks but he shoudl do bloodwork to make sure

Your doc should do bloodwork every 4-8 weeks and adjust your Test acordingly

adding something to get your ass in gear seems pointless unless you plan on hitting the gym consistantly and getting on some type of diet wether it be to bulk up or to cut some bodyfat. BUT you should already have a consistant gym and diet routine before adding anthing to your cycle

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[Spyke]

I'm beginning to realize that my approach is outside the normal parameters of traditional hrt, but I don't care (surprisingly, neither does my wife). I need to feel better - fast. Anyway, the main goal is hrt, but I'm not opposed to enjoying the benefits of the stuff as much as possible.

Thanks again for comments.

Please learn what you are doing before you really f yourself up.

400mg of cyp is nothing short of CRAZY as a long term HRT dose. That is a steroid cycle!!!!!!!!!!!! Any guy who does not work out and who has to be "dragged" to the gym by his wife has no busniess doing a cycle!!

Your first doc seemed to be on the right track. He was starting out a bit on the lower side but 100mg per week to start is reasonable. Please don't think that more test is better. Test can raise you red blood cells which can cause you to feel tired all the time. It will also raise your BP, raise lipids, cause balding etc.

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[Kale]

Oh mate you need to be very carefull what you are doing here. I am almost 52, I am on permanent HRT and I cycle and I take HGH and what you are doing is just plain dumb. Your first Dr was on the right track. 400mg a week will push your hormone levels to almost four times the top of the range, I know that because I have had lots of blood tests at various stages of cycles and when I am back on HRT. At the top of the range you will feel great. You only really need between 100mg and 150mg of Test a week to get there. Also 2 IU a day 5 on and 2 off will also fix any problems with your HGH levels.

Now if you want to grow and look better you need to get your ass into the gym consistently and eat a good diet, no amount of Test will do that without you putting in a consistent effort.

At 400mg a week of Test permanently, I think you are heading for big problems with your health in the future. Sure you can do a cycle for 12 weeks at that dose as long as you work out, but HRT doses need to be lot less than that.

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Trying to get Kale's avatar out of my mind while I type . . .

[Kale]

Trying to get Kale's avatar out of my mind while I type . . .

Ok - I got it. 400/wk (forever) is unhealthy. How about if I cycle it? Will it be ok to drop down to 100-150 a week after say 12 weeks? For how long do you wait before beginning again?

You have sufficiently motivated me. My ass will be in the gym tomorrow.

Yes she is a hottie and she is my GF, thank God for HRT Now what you can do is cycle for 12 weeks or however long you decide and then you just cruise on HRT to the next cycle, for me that can vary a lot but usually about six months and then I might do another cycle. HGH remains permanent no matter what you do. Lots of guys cycle this for six months but at my age there is no point, I am on HGH permanently,

I cannot emphasize enough that this is a lifestyle change dude so dont bother doing a cycle unless you are totally committed to working out hard and maintain an excellent diet with at least 3000 clean calories a day and 300 + grams of protein, otherwise you are just wasting your money.

If you havnt been in a gym for a while, you can do a HRT dose now but dont start a cycle until you have put in at least three months of hard lifting because you will find that you will probably grow anyway just from the excercise and the diet change along with the HRT dose of Test

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Wow. Congratulations - and you're in your 50s?

I understand it's a lifestyle change. I'm okay with that. I want that. Diet is easy. It's just been hard for me to exercise because of low levels. My hope was to give myself a boost (energetically) so I could get back on track, and that the other symptoms of test deficiency would go away as well.

I'll force myself to get the endorfins open this weekend. No offense, but I'm putting the picture of your girlfriend on my treadmill.

[zaggahamma]

sorry to hear about your lack of energy bro...i know how that feels on just the few days where i'm lagging so i couldn't imagine dealing with that every day

btw, i didn't see what your test level was anyway? and also do you have a guess at your body fat % at the moment. I noticed you want to gain weight and have no fat...

also agree with all above that 400 is a whopping starting hrt dose...don't remember seeing one like that except for like already stated already with an established routine and reasonable bodyfat/energy/metablolism

sounds like you decided on starting off slowly as reccommended here...you can always see how you feel in a few weeks and also check your levels again including estrogen.

best of luck to you bro

[Spyke]

Let me clear this up. First of all I don't think anyone should be doing a cycle until they have been on a pretty hardcore lifting program for a couple years and they have their diet pretty well under control. I think 99.5% of the guys here will agree with this. Also working out means heavy squats, bench, deads, chins, dips etc. Not the typical "fitness center" workout of 45 min treadmill followed up by 15 min of 20 pounds of curls and bench.

Doing a 400mg cycle when you have not touched a weight in a decade is just plain stupid. Who ever put you on that program should be fired. You asked how long you should stay on that dose and my answer is get off NOW.

Start on a normal hrt dose. If you really want to be aggressive 150mg per week, plus your hgh and dex. I would make sure that your HCG is no more then 500iu per week.

Then start lifting and do some cardio. Make sure you are on a solid lifting program and that your technique is good. Maybe hire a trainer for the first few times to get you started.

Re do your bloodwork in another 8 weeks and adjust as needed to get you into the upper quarter of normal and maintain.

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[zaggahamma]

I think I also need to clear something up - I'm no stranger to lifting. I used to bench 325 naturally - worked out 5-6 days a week, and trained people in college. I have the technique and the knowledge.

My diet is near perfect.

Spyke - does this change your view?

jpkmann -

I actually am not going to start out slow, but I have learned I need to cycle. Now I just need to learn how. My wife is fully supportive of me being as aggressive as necessary to look and feel better, and that is what I'm going to do.

My test levels are in the high 300s. Neverthless, my father's were well over 1000 (naturally) into his 50s. My brother, who is almost 50, is at almost 900. I'm 33. So, my levels are very low for my family (if that makes any sense).

I weigh about 185 now. I'd guess my bodyfat is about 20-25% (33 inch waist). I'd like to weigh 200 with very little body fat.

As a hardgainer who used to lift religiously for years and years, I have the discipline and the drive to ensure that I'm not wasting cycles. I just need the energy to get into the gym. I have read that the test is supposed to give me some energy (and decrease the brain fog), but I can't say I even feel it yet - although my wife has noticed.

I seem to be annoying some of the hrt folks. Although hrt is really what started all this, I suppose I'm willing to go further than that. Should I switch boards?

Again - thank ALL of you for your very helpful responses.

P.S. Why don't I have access to anything?

Actually, whether or not you started off with a cycle dose is irrelevant to me...you did mention you planned on staying on though so it looks like you are going to do your cycle in the begginning and then get on a cruise dose later on

if you don't mind keep your post here as i am very interested and feel a lot is to be learned...how often do you plan on getting your blood work checked and rechecked

wish you the best again

[ToTheBuckeT21]

aww i miss being a newbie... i didn't even read any of this.. but it just made me think of how great it was to be flamed all the time and not knowing anything then just learning everything!... I wanna be a newb again!!!!

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[zaggahamma]

As you wish. I have learned a bit on this board.
As for the blood tests, I don't know. My first doctor will drop me as soon as he knows I ditched his protocol.

You're right - at the beginning of getting schooled today - I said I'd stay at 400 forever. So I'm stupid. Tell me more.

How long is a cycle? How long should I wait in between cycles?
I don't produce enough test on my own - should I take some in between cycles?

that's what kale was telling you that he does....some on hrt bump up their dose and/or add some compounds to their maintenance dose... example being if i'm doing 200mg test for hrt, i may want to add deca at the same dose for 8weeks
hope you start to feel better soon bro

[Spyke]

I think I also need to clear something up - I'm no stranger to lifting. I used to bench 325 naturally - worked out 5-6 days a week, and trained people in college. I have the technique and the knowledge.

My diet is near perfect.

Spyke - does this change your view?

jpkmann -

I actually am not going to start out slow, but I have learned I need to cycle. Now I just need to learn how. My wife is fully supportive of me being as aggressive as necessary to look and feel better, and that is what I'm going to do.

My test levels are in the high 300s. Neverthless, my father's were well over 1000 (naturally) into his 50s. My brother, who is almost 50, is at almost 900. I'm 33. So, my levels are very low for my family (if that makes any sense).

I weigh about 185 now. I'd guess my bodyfat is about 20-25% (33 inch waist). I'd like to weigh 200 with very little body fat.

As a hardgainer who used to lift religiously for years and years, I have the discipline and the drive to ensure that I'm not wasting cycles. I just need the energy to get into the gym. I have read that the test is supposed to give me some energy (and decrease the brain fog), but I can't say I even feel it yet - although my wife has noticed.

I seem to be annoying some of the hrt folks. Although hrt is really what started all this, I suppose I'm willing to go further than that. Should I switch boards?

Again - thank ALL of you for your very helpful responses.

P.S. Why don't I have access to anything?

No that doesn't change much except for the fact that you know the basics on how to lift but you may progress a little faster naturally at first due to muscle memory. You are really just backing up what alot of us are saying which is that as a newbie with over 20%bf you should be able to make some real nice gains with a good diet, 150mg per week and a solid lifting program. No offense but I meet guys at the gym all the time who start out all gung ho with lifting and 99% disappear within a few weeks.

Why not get some training under your belt while you learn how your body reacts to normal test levels. Then in a year or so you can do a cycle. By then you should have more knowledge about AAS. It really seems like you want things to happen overnight.

I know this is not what you want to hear. Im sorry. Good luck

PS I think if you tell the guys on the steroid board what you are up to, you will see some major flaming

[ToTheBuckeT21]

post whoreing..

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post whoreing..

Huh?

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[zaggahamma]

Slept great last night - must be the hgh. Woke up and went to the gym and signed up with a personal trainer.

Got my body fat tested - 15.4%, which was surprising to me. I would have guessed 25%.

Muscle memory was decent - 45 lb shoulder presses (dumbbells), although my lateral raises were pathetic (10 lbs).

I continue to post at jpkman's request.

As for spyke, much respect bro, but I'm a big boy with three degrees. I can take care of myself. I welcome the constructive criticism, but saying "I'm just plain stupid" and assuming I'm one of the 99% who will not stick with an exercise regimen is unfair and condescending and completely contradicts everything I've said.

I dare say that, even with my health, my discipline in the gym (despite the last few years), would match anyone.

Anyway, I shouldn't have to explain myself. I came here to learn.

I have one more request....1 10ML vial of deca

J/k

ne way...you're back and we know you're gonna stick to it so keep us posted

[rockbottom]

Wish I could help.

I can't get Kale's avatar outta my head. Must be the test finally kicking in . . . .

Damn you Kale!

[zaggahamma]

kale AND sman

[rockbottom]

True, true, but I'm a brunette fan.

[bringndaheat]

Listent to the peeps. I would not go any higher than 200mgs a week of test for your first few months. You can always go higher but you can't ever go back down. Look at it like this. If you were going to get drunk for the first time would you drink the whole bottle of Jack the first time. Or would you listen to the people that said don't do that you are going to get sick. I suggest you take a couple sips from the bottle before you drink the whole thing.

-Heat

Yes Kale's girl is pretty hot.

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[Spyke]

Slept great last night - must be the hgh. Woke up and went to the gym and signed up with a personal trainer.

Got my body fat tested - 15.4%, which was surprising to me. I would have guessed 25%.

Muscle memory was decent - 45 lb shoulder presses (dumbbells), although my lateral raises were pathetic (10 lbs).

I continue to post at jpkman's request.

As for spyke, much respect bro, but I'm a big boy with three degrees. I can take care of myself. I welcome the constructive criticism, but saying "I'm just plain stupid" and assuming I'm one of the 99% who will not stick with an exercise regimen is unfair and condescending and completely contradicts everything I've said.

I dare say that, even with my health, my discipline in the gym (despite the last few years), would match anyone.

Dude, If you read my post it said that taking 400mg weekly as hrt is "stupid". I did not say that you personally are a stupid person.

I did point out that most people who start working out do stop after a short time. You stated that your wife was "dragging" you to the gym. I gotta be honest, that did not sound like a guy who is comitted to making a massive lifestyle change. That is part of the reason it is reccomended that you spend some time making natural gains before doing a cycle. I dont know how you could can say your discipline in the gym matches anyone, when you have not lifted in years.

Your degrees don't mean anything here. The fact is you came here a couple days ago saying you have been doing a 400mg hrt program while not working out. You were totally unaware that it was a cycle dose. Seemed pissed when I explained some of the sides. You say you are here to learn but don't like what we are saying. So do what you want. You seem have all the answers and can take care of yourself. I was actually concerned about your long term health and tried to help guide you towards a healthy HRT plan. But you are smarter then me so I guess I have nothing to offer.

BTW
The newbie cycle you posted is for guys who are new to AAS not guys who are new to weightlifting. (I know you were a 325lb benching monster years ago, but you are just another new guy right now)

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[Ufa]

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