HRT = Northbound testicles? Please help!

**n2ojones** · 02-05-2007, 10:48 AM

Hi all...delicate subject(s) here.

I have been on 3 ml Test w/20% DHEA (the liguid-put-on your-skin-type) ED. I have been on for almost exactly one month. I have also been taking pregnalone and armour thyroid med.

I am noticing that my testes are ascending... To the point where it is uncomfortable. Is this a side of the HRT and is there anything I can do for this condition?

BTW...I just started a cycle of Melanontan. I doubt that is the culprit, though as I noticed this prior to starting. i will let you know how this stuff works.

Otherwise, aside from the nausea induced by the Melanotan, i feel VERY good ! M diet seems about right as I am managing to keep muscle while losing a few inches (on my waist

.

I appreciate any and all help and I thank you in advance.

**Ufa** · 02-05-2007, 01:15 PM

You might have to much estrogen. If so take an AI like arimidex . There
will still be a little shrinkage but to a less extent.

**n2ojones** · 02-05-2007, 01:54 PM

Thanks for the reply Ufa,

Not sure I'm experiencing any actual "shrinkage", they just seem to be riding a bit higher than usual. Painfully so.

Do you (or anyone else) think this could also be related to a higher quantity of estrogen?

I understand this melonatan causes an increase in erections...and that seems to be the case, so I wonder if maybe the two (erections and ascended huevos) go hand in hand.... Pun intended.

I spoke with my particular HRT pharmacy, and they of course, thought a reduction in the test was a possible remedy. I did however forget to mention the Melanotan.

I nixed the idea of test reduction (in a hurry) and continue to seek answers here. Thanks again....anyone else?

**Halfcenturian** · 02-05-2007, 05:54 PM

Ask your doc if some HCG would help inflate your "boys".

**n2ojones** · 02-07-2007, 03:53 PM

Thanks for the reply, Halfcenturian, but I must reiterate that I don't think any actual shrinkage has occurred. They just seem to be riding a little high.

I have searched all over these forums and cannot find what I am looking for...it seems to em I saw a thread speaking of this very thing and someone actually indicated there to be a medicine that makes them (the testes) settle back down.

I would sure apprceciate the help if anyone can assist. Thanks again to those that replied...

.and to the rest: The balls you save may be your own!

Seriously. I imagine this could happen to any of us and whether you are currently inflicted with this syndrome or not...it would'nt hurt to know about this....just in case.

**fbcoach** · 02-07-2007, 06:50 PM

I have read that HCG should help your boys to descend, and also your man to become less flaccid....I believe your neuro-hormones and chemicals have a lot to do with this.

**n2ojones** · 02-09-2007, 11:32 AM

Thanks Coach! Put me in I'm ready to play! Errr, not really.

I will check into the HCG , Coach. Any thoughts on where to start or where how to obtain? This appears to be getting worse and is downright uncomfortable/painful.

Does this HCG act as an estrogen block ? I am noticing some tenderness in my nipples as well, so have to assume estrogen is the culprit.

I am sure thankful for this forum....I can't imagine where else I would freely call those things on my chest..."nipples", Urggggh.

Thanks again...hope you are well Coach.

**BITTAPART2** · 02-09-2007, 01:50 PM

your doc must be a quack? LOL really my local HRT clinic has everyone monitoring estrogen and gives HCG an arimidex along w/ TRT.

**fbcoach** · 02-09-2007, 11:21 PM

n2o,
The HCG may possibly increase estrogen,,,,but it will keep the boys healthy. The arimidex will also help by preventing the Test from aromatizing into estrogen. I would really suggest to have bloodwork done, so you would know what your E2 levels are. The problem with self-diagnosing and dosing is you may end up too low, and that can be just as bad as too high.

**fbcoach** · 02-09-2007, 11:25 PM

By the way, I just got back from Michigan. I went there for a consult with Dr. Crisler, one of the leading experts on HRT. I will be happy to share all I learn from him. The first thing I learned was the man has one long finger

**WallyWorld637** · 02-09-2007, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by fbcoach

By the way, I just got back from Michigan. I went there for a consult with Dr. Crisler, one of the leading experts on HRT. I will be happy to share all I learn from him. The first thing I learned was the man has one long finger

I hope he didn't have the shakes.

**fbcoach** · 02-10-2007, 06:14 PM

I don't know about the shakes, but it sure as h_ll didn't feel like he clipped his nails

**n2ojones** · 02-13-2007, 12:07 AM

You know Coach...I think they leave the nails long so the client is positive that it's really his finger back there.

OK..that was bad.

Thanks for the feedback guys. Yes, my guy is a bit of a "quack". I mentioned this in another thread and I'll say again that I am just happy to a doc with an open mind...I just wish he'd use it more.

FINALLY ran some bloodwork last friday. No results yet other than I don't have prostate cancer. I knew that from the finger a few months ago.

I bitched him out today and he put me on Arimidex ..I just took a mg a few hours ago. I know I should wait for the bloodwork, but this is driving me crazy and I have to assume this nut thing is too much estrogen. We should have some numbers tomorrow.

The script says I should take 1 mg everyday. This seems high according to my research on arimidex thus far. Seems most take like a 1/2 every few days (?!?).

I REALLY appreciate the advice and guidance, guys..especially you Coach, you have been very generous with your knowledge and time. Thank you.

This has been quite frustrating and even scary. I have considered forgetting everything and bailing on the HRT. I don't want to mess myself up.... but I would sure like to get rejuvinated. I'm 47 and have a drop dead gorgeous 23 yr. old wife.

I only tell you guys this so you can better relate to my urgent need to get back on track. I know I should have waited for the blood before i started anything...but didn't. I have requested the results be given to me personally, please reply when I post those results.

Thanks so much,

Jones

**fbcoach** · 02-13-2007, 06:07 AM

Jones,
Don't give up on HRT quite yet. Sometimes there's a lot more to it than just taking a shot of test to feel rejuvenated. It could be your body has problems freeing up your testosterone , so you can use it effectively. This can be due to high SHBG or E2s. Both can be alleviated. It could also be due to thyroid and adrenals. This is where a good Doc can come in handy. There is a solution to all this, but it is sort of like putting a puzzle together.
As far as arimidex , Dr. Crisler only uses it as a last resort, because it may drive your E2 levels too low. He usually starts a patient on and OTC product called Dim. On the other hand, I have read studies where some HRT Docs put hypogonadal men on 1mg. arimidex/day (by itself) and effectively doubled and even tripled their natural test levels, while lowering their E2 levels.
It's all a balancing act that may take some time, but in the end, well worth it.
Damn..23 years old..huh!! Just the thought of that drives my test levels up a few hundred nanograms

Good luck Jones, and I will keep everybody informed as I learn from Dr. Crisler on my journey into HRT.

**n2ojones** · 02-14-2007, 12:54 AM

Thanks again, Coach. Yeah, she's a test-boost in herself, and at 23, twice as mature as I. And therein the problem lies(!).

I'm sure evry person on this board is still young mentally...thus their need to keep a step ahead of the peers, or those of similar age, by turning to HRT.

In all honesty, I am probably not a good candidate..or likely candidate for HRT. I think my blood (still not back!) will show that even without the test, I have a good supply of test. I don't know this, but I know I am still capable of good gains, my libido has always been wayyyy up there and I dont seem to get overly depressed without good reason.

As I said in my initial or intro thread, I blew my back out while at the top of my game. i did experience some depression but not severe. I did however let my disciplined lifestyle slip...lets say I was "bulking" for several years, LOL.

Again, I won't lie. I am looking for an edge. i live in a land of hard-bodies everywhere..male and female, I am still 25 in my child-like brain and refuse to "act my age". I can't. Most of my friends areyounger and I don't want to be mistaken for their parent.

Suddenly, to achieve this edge, I am consuming more drugs/chemicals than I have in my entire life....that is where it gets scary...especially with my doc being a bit ..well, you know.

Now I am on this arimidex , armour, pregnalone, test (topical)DHEA and a few others that I can't think of right now.He did advise me try this DIM..that you mention. I am taking that in conjunction with the arimidex. I suppose I am messing up again and should NOT be taking both..but other than this board, I have no inclination.

HOPEFULLY I will get my blood tomorrow. I guess there is not much more to think about until I do. Meanwhile, I have been on the test for about 5 weeks, I seem to be making good gains, but may have done that anyway just by being more focused in my work-outs. Dunno. It's all very confusing, the terminology alone is intiminaing. I have read countless posts in countless threads and do my best to put the puzzle together.

Thanks again, I look forward to reading your posts as they are all very informative. I hope you are well.

**fbcoach** · 02-14-2007, 06:06 AM

n2o,
I hear ya bro..YES, I think you described everyone on this board. There is nothing wrong in doing what it takes to fulfill our goals of wellness. Like you, I am 47 years old, but I get mistaken for mid 30s. Now that's coming from my students (who can be brutally honest at times

To look at me, I don't exhibit low test symptoms..my libido is still intact, but a definite decrease (that is probably a good thing

. I've always been optimistic, but my drive has definitely waned. Not only do I want my TOTAL HEALTH back, I want that edge. Most of my assistant coaches are over 20 years my junior, and no way are they going to refer to me as the "Old Man"..lol.. So yeah..what we are trying to accomplish is a GOOD thing....TOTAL HEALTH and HIGHER QUALITY OF LIFE!! Good luck bro!!!!

**jbarkley** · 02-14-2007, 01:14 PM

Really good thread, just a comment on the Melanotan and the nasea, I have been using it for about 6 weeks and had the nausea occur the first couple of weeks....since the third week I no longer experience any. BTW, you guys are at the perfect age! I think it just keeps getting better, we're at the age that we can maintain our bodies and enjoy the finer things life as to offer...

**fbcoach** · 02-14-2007, 06:16 PM

n2o,
I wanted to ask you..did you get a baseline bloodwork done (off all meds)? I noticed you said that you are on test now. Were you on test at the time of your bloodwork? I'm just curious, because if your natural test levels are mid-range to high, the test you are injecting or applying could possibly bring your test levels down. If that is the case, you would possibly have to either raise the amount of test you are using or better yet, find a way to free up more of the test.

**n2ojones** · 02-17-2007, 11:49 PM

Hey Coach...

Sorry it took so long to find this and I hope you are doing well. (I've been out of town sans internet).

I think I had some clean blood taken abut a year ago. Didn't know about HRT at the time, just wanted to make sure I was somewhat healthy (prostate etc.) therefore I never bothered to ask about counts or anything.

Great question, it is appreciated and something I need to look into. I am on test, topical 200m mlg per day...but I have been taking 300 (Just being honest here). I am still waiting for my bloodwork from last week!

What really sucks is I'm heading to Thailand in the morning and will have no clue of what is going on. OK...going to Thailand for the 2nd time in 3 months don't really suck that much. Jing Jing

I will say that I have noticed definate results. placebo? not sure...I have been eating right and working out...but it seems like there is a bit extra in the tank. I like it.

If you were in the shoes of a fairly fit individual (looking for an edge), doing 300 mlg of topical test per day and found your self in Thailand...anything you might dabble in to tweak things?

The individual would only be there for three weeks and was thinking a dozen andriol a day might fit into the current program. *Thoughts?

* This is the part where someone calls me a dumbass....and gets no argument.

**fbcoach** · 02-18-2007, 10:00 AM

N2o,
One of the things I keep reading about the gel is sometimes the test isn't absorbed into the joints and muscles and can cause or exasperate joint/muscle pain in some people. Have you tried the injectables? As far as wanting to venture into a cycle during HRT, that is your perogative, and I see nothing wrong with that. Andriol would probably be a good choice. In Europe, Andriol is used for HRT in some practices.
So, are you going to Thailand for business or pleasure? Maybe get some traveling tips from Kale. I went to the Philippines last summer. I met a goodlooking pinay lawyer and decided to take the trip. Had the time of my life!! Let me tell you bro, if you want to see some goodlooking women that love foreigners, that's your place

Good luck n2o and have fun.

**n2ojones** · 02-18-2007, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by jbarkley

Really good thread, just a comment on the Melanotan and the nasea, I have been using it for about 6 weeks and had the nausea occur the first couple of weeks....since the third week I no longer experience any. BTW, you guys are at the perfect age! I think it just keeps getting better, we're at the age that we can maintain our bodies and enjoy the finer things life as to offer...

Thanks for the reply, JB. The Melanotan is the sh*t. I only used about 15 mls and my tan is off the hook. I am on maintenance now....but will stop all together for the next 3 weeks. We'll see how long it takes to re-activate upon my return.

I got the nausea the first few shots and then it subsided. I do continue to experience alot of muscle soreness though. The stuff is taxing but man...the results are incredible.

Have you had similar success with your cycle?

**fbcoach** · 02-18-2007, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by jbarkley

Really good thread, just a comment on the Melanotan and the nasea, I have been using it for about 6 weeks and had the nausea occur the first couple of weeks....since the third week I no longer experience any. BTW, you guys are at the perfect age! I think it just keeps getting better, we're at the age that we can maintain our bodies and enjoy the finer things life as to offer...

I hear ya bro....take advantage of technology and reap the benefits. I often wonder why more guys don't. Half the guys in my office are on anti-depressants and viagra. Screw that!!!!

**Ufa** · 02-18-2007, 10:18 AM

Soon your nuts will be rasin size. You won't be able to find them.

Then you will be admitted to AR hall of Fame.

**jbarkley** · 02-18-2007, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by n2ojones

Thanks for the reply, JB. The Melanotan is the sh*t. I only used about 15 mls and my tan is off the hook. I am on maintenance now....but will stop all together for the next 3 weeks. We'll see how long it takes to re-activate upon my return.

I got the nausea the first few shots and then it subsided. I do continue to experience alot of muscle soreness though. The stuff is taxing but man...the results are incredible.

Have you had similar success with your cycle?

It's really funny how many people keep telling me that I'm getting "really tan" my wife keeps thinking I'm using the tanning bed...and since I have skin cancer issues...anyway I assure I only go in once a week for 5 min....lol, I still haven't told her about the Melanotan. But since I have gone through cancer and chemo for another type (lymphoma) I research everything I use completely since I don't want to cause anything to pop up again. I thought you and Coach would find this interesting and imformative:

Melanotan and melanotan II are both analogs of the peptide hormone alpha-melanocyte stimulating hormone (α-MSH) that tend to induce skin tanning. Unlike melanotan though, melanotan II has the additional effect of increasing libido.

Both drugs were developed at the University of Arizona. Researchers there knew that one of the best defenses against skin cancer was a natural tan which has been slowly developed over weeks. They hypothesized that an effective way to reduce skin cancer rates in people would be to induce the body's natural tanning system to produce a protective tan prior to UV exposure. They knew the body's naturally occurring hormone alpha-melanocyte stimulating hormone (α-MSH) caused melanogenesis, a process by which the skin's tanning cells (melanocytes) produce the skin's tanning pigment (melanin). With that knowledge they tested to see if administering this hormone to the body directly could be an effective method to cause sunless tanning. What they found was that while it appeared to work, natural alpha-MSH had too short a half life in the body to be practical as a therapeutic drug. So they decided to find a more potent and stable alternative, one that would be more practical.

After synthesizing and screening hundreds of molecules, the researchers headed by Dr. Victor Hruby, found a peptide that after trials and testing seemed to not only be safe but also approximately 1,000 times more potent than natural α-MSH. They dubbed this new peptide Melanotan. Since their discovery, numerous studies dating back to the mid-1980s have shown no obvious toxic effects of Melanotan. Because skin cancer (melanoma) today is a major health concern, Melanotan is expected to be used as a drug to combat it. Melanotan will do this by stimulating the body's natural tanning mechanism to create a tan without first needing exposure to harmful levels of UV radiation. This in turn will reduce the potential for skin damage that can eventually lead to skin cancer
LIVESTRONG Bros!!!