Excess cortisol or Low testosterone?

[underrated831]

Man am I glad I found this forum, it seems like you guys know a lot.

OK I've been doing a lot of research on many forums for weeks. I am now 21, but when I was 18 I took a lot of things IRRESPONSIBLY because I thought I knew what I was doing.

I have taken m1t, dbol , some other steroid , nolva, clomid, and letro for PCT. And I smoked marijuana while I was doing this which gave me gyno.

I am now stuck with a moon face and a beer belly. I gain weight VERY easily and I only gain it on my face or stomach. People are always constantly telling me that my cheeks are way too fat for a skinny person like me because my legs and arms are skinny. My parents are both REALLy skinny and my dad eats like crap and still won't gain a single pound. That's how I used to be before I started taking roids, I used to eat McDonalds 3 times a day and not gain a single pound.

I tried using the EC stack and clen but the effects are minimal even with my good diet and exercise.

My sex life, well I dont last as long as I used to and its not as enjoyable as I remember it either. The flow of my urine is also very weak. It dribbles towards the end and I cant hold it in as long as I used to.

I'm pretty scared so I went to go see 2 doctors but I feel like they think I'm a hypo. The first one didnt even perform the tests I asked him to. He said there was no point in running a cortisol test because he would be able to tell by just looking at me. He said my prostate is impossible to be messed up at such a young age.
The 2nd doctor stuck his finger up my butt but said my prostate was fine. I dont know if he ran all the tests I asked him to because he was pretty much saying all this was in my head and that my metabolism is supposed to slow down as I get older, but I know that doesn't happen in my family, not for my sister, parents, grandparents, aunts or uncles!

If I took cytadren would it help? Do I have to keep taking it in order to keep my cortisol levels low or does it bring it back to balance after 1 cycle?

I read somehwere low testosterone leads to increased cortisol levels. So I'm guessing I might have low testosterone or excess cortisol left in my system.

I don't have much money because I am a college student, but I took a thyroid panel and cortisol test from directlabs. I have attached an image of my test from directlabs. the triiodothyronine section worries because its pretty much on the edge of being out of range.

I also took this test at around 2pm so my cortisol IS out of range according to the ADULT PM 3.1-16.7 right?

I think I'm going to keep trying new doctors until one actually takes me seriously. Any tips on what to look for in a doctor? age? type of doctor? etc.

[zaggahamma]

Man am I glad I found this forum, it seems like you guys know a lot.

OK I've been doing a lot of research on many forums for weeks. I am now 21, but when I was 18 I took a lot of things IRRESPONSIBLY because I thought I knew what I was doing.

I have taken m1t, dbol , some other steroid , nolva, clomid, and letro for PCT. And I smoked marijuana while I was doing this which gave me gyno.

I am now stuck with a moon face and a beer belly. I gain weight VERY easily and I only gain it on my face or stomach. People are always constantly telling me that my cheeks are way too fat for a skinny person like me because my legs and arms are skinny. My parents are both REALLy skinny and my dad eats like crap and still won't gain a single pound. That's how I used to be before I started taking roids, I used to eat McDonalds 3 times a day and not gain a single pound.

I tried using the EC stack and clen but the effects are minimal even with my good diet and exercise.

My sex life, well I dont last as long as I used to and its not as enjoyable as I remember it either. The flow of my urine is also very weak. It dribbles towards the end and I cant hold it in as long as I used to.

I'm pretty scared so I went to go see 2 doctors but I feel like they think I'm a hypo. The first one didnt even perform the tests I asked him to. He said there was no point in running a cortisol test because he would be able to tell by just looking at me. He said my prostate is impossible to be messed up at such a young age.
The 2nd doctor stuck his finger up my butt but said my prostate was fine. I dont know if he ran all the tests I asked him to because he was pretty much saying all this was in my head and that my metabolism is supposed to slow down as I get older, but I know that doesn't happen in my family, not for my sister, parents, grandparents, aunts or uncles!

If I took cytadren would it help? Do I have to keep taking it in order to keep my cortisol levels low or does it bring it back to balance after 1 cycle?

I read somehwere low testosterone leads to increased cortisol levels. So I'm guessing I might have low testosterone or excess cortisol left in my system.

I don't have much money because I am a college student, but I took a thyroid panel and cortisol test from directlabs. I have attached an image of my test from directlabs. the triiodothyronine section worries because its pretty much on the edge of being out of range.

I also took this test at around 2pm so my cortisol IS out of range according to the ADULT PM 3.1-16.7 right?

I think I'm going to keep trying new doctors until one actually takes me seriously. Any tips on what to look for in a doctor? age? type of doctor? etc.

welcome to ar...
sorry that you aren't feeling your best bro

i too was concerned about cortisol before i ended up taking testosterone and was tested and cortisol was fine but test was low...test was all i needed and i am able to lose fat

i am 37 soon to be 38 but i don't think it matters much about the age...if your hormones are fuvcked up their fvcked up...simple as that

the thing you said at the end is the best thing you can do....fire the sorry a$$ doctors that won't let you test what you want....age is the BIGGEST factor when it comes to prostate....but did the uro give you any other reason why your urination and erections are weak...where you said "i'll just find another doctor" is exactly the thing to do....I too had to go through several before i was happy with the one i have now....it could end up being another uro, or endo, or even family doctor that might be hip on test replacement

you had the digital exam and that came back in your favor....there is a blood test called psa that can be done when you test for your testosterone and estrogen levels and it will also reflect the health of your prostate...you could have something going on with your bladder which your uro should have offered to check out

demand from these doctors what you want for your health and get insurance if not already cuz this shiat can get expensive....i have insurance and still don't get blood tested as often as i want/should

hope i've helped a bit...any other ? don't hesitate bro

good luck

[fbcoach]

Jpkman gave you good advice. Just to add a little: You may have some insulin resistance. The reason I say this is because most of the weight you gained in your face and stomach is probably water retention. Ezcess insulin or insulin that is not wrking properly and continues to circulate in your blood/body can not only cause damage, but it also increases aldosterone. This is the hormone secreted by the adrenal glands (above the kidneys) that is responsible for sodium and water retention. Try lowering your carbs and see if this helps. You may need to lower them drastically to begin with. Make sure to increase protein and fat. Once you see this working, then you can begin to add carbs back to see how much is needed. If you need some more help, I will be more than happy to help you all I can. I would try this before going the drug route.

[underrated831]

Jpkman gave you good advice. Just to add a little: You may have some insulin resistance. The reason I say this is because most of the weight you gained in your face and stomach is probably water retention. Ezcess insulin or insulin that is not wrking properly and continues to circulate in your blood/body can not only cause damage, but it also increases aldosterone. This is the hormone secreted by the adrenal glands (above the kidneys) that is responsible for sodium and water retention. Try lowering your carbs and see if this helps. You may need to lower them drastically to begin with. Make sure to increase protein and fat. Once you see this working, then you can begin to add carbs back to see how much is needed. If you need some more help, I will be more than happy to help you all I can. I would try this before going the drug route.

what kinda things can I eat that have low carbs and a good amount of protein and fat? Thank you.

[lacey231]

I'm pretty much in the same situation as you but a little further along. Like everyone else said, you need a doctor that knows what he's doing, and to get the proper tests done.

Total Testosterone
Bioavailable Testosterone (AKA “Free and Loosely Bound”)
Free Testosterone (if Bioavailable T is unavailable)
SHBG
DHT
Estradiol (specify “ultrasensitive” assay for males)
LH
FSH
Prolactin
Cortisol
Thyroid Panel
CBC
Comprehensive Metabolic Panel
Lipid Profile
PSA (if over 40)
IGF-1 (if HGH therapy is being considered)


That should tell you everything you need to know. Then go from there.

I know Testosterone levels effect the circadic rythem so that might be throwing your cortisol levels off.

By the moon face, and belly fat sounds like you have high E2, which would result in low test levels throwing off a bunch of other things. ***ending on how the results come back you might be able to get away with using an AI to control E2 and raise Test. Wait and see what the tests say though


Edit- Also when a doctor tells you he can tell by looking at you, that means he's not qualified to be treating you for HRT anyways. When you ask an Endo, or GP about cortisol levels they are trained to recognize cushings disease, which is pretty noticable. A lot of them don't recognize anything other then extreme shutdown, or cushings. For example, I went to an endo that said I was healthy and fine with DHEA-s levels of 6.3 ref range 7.6-17.4. At 22, someone should be a lot higher then that. You need an HRT doctor.

[Tapout]

bro welcome to AR
you have been given alot of good advice but a couple of things were not touched upon
its obvious you do have some physical conditions going on --low test,insulin sensitivity,high estrogen ot cortical levels
but
I do think some is mental---stress and the mind can do alot to a person including raising cortical levels and over all droping alot of the bodies functions. I am not saying its all in your mind or you are crazy but what I am saying is that if you worry and think too much on something it can effect you physically--then as time goes on it can get worse.

my advice is to go to a doc and have all the tests ran--change docs till you find one who will --remember you are the boss of you. then start working on the mental aspect of this trying to get confidence back and calm self down

a example of this is you give 2 people test
one person gets fake stuff
one gets real stuff
sometimes the person who thinks they are on test gets just as good results--so try to calm yourself down and ***ending on what the doc says we will give you more advice

[underrated831]

Thank you kindly for your replies guys, but Lacey213 when you said I need an HRT doctor, what kind of doctor should I be looking for? An Internist or Endocrinology and Metabolism?

[fbcoach]

Like the others advized you, find a Doc, and get bloodwork. In the meantime, to help with the water retention, lower the carbs. Try eating all meats, eggs, make sure to get some fiber, water, and just about any food that has lower carbs. Are you able to exercise? Try doing a few more sets at a faster pace. I will try and help you as best as I can along with the others.

[lacey231]

Thank you kindly for your replies guys, but Lacey213 when you said I need an HRT doctor, what kind of doctor should I be looking for? An Internist or Endocrinology and Metabolism?

You need a doctor that has experience with treating a lot of patients with HRT. Some uroligists have expereince, some endos, but not all, or you can go to an HRT clinic. It took me a while to find a decent doctor, some past ones would tell me it's normal to have free test at 43 ref range 31-94. Give me Andro gel anyways, but not even bother testing estradiol levels. A lot of doctors don't know what they are doing with HRT.

I don't know where you live so I can't really help you as far as what doc's know. I'm new to the site so maybe some people around here would know a good doc around where you live. I'm up in Canada, even harder to find a good doc for TRT. Here's the one I'm using, http://www.mastersmensclinic.com/ . Has lots of experince with TRT, and on his site he mentions a lot about SHBG, Estradiol, DHT, etc, and is comfortable treating with HCg , and arimidex which many docs arn't. If you live in Michigan Dr John Crisler is suppose to be good.

Good luck bro

[phatkid77]

i forgot i belong here....

im thinking of dr komer if i dont get anywhere around here.... im in kingston...so i'd like to avoid burlington....

whats he doing for you??

any info would be gr8...his site says 2-3 wks to get appt??

phats

[lacey231]

i forgot i belong here....

im thinking of dr komer if i dont get anywhere around here.... im in kingston...so i'd like to avoid burlington....

whats he doing for you??

any info would be gr8...his site says 2-3 wks to get appt??

phats

I've only went to the initial apointment that some guy goes over your symptoms, and asks you a bunch of questions I also talked to Dr. Komer and asked him a couple questions, if he used Hcg , arimidex etc if needed. It was a little over a month to get into that appointment, and I have a second appointment coming up on May 8th where you have your appointment with Dr Komer.

Right now my test levels are kind of low, and estradiol levels are pretty high, so I'm just waiting on some Liquidex to try and even that out. I'll see how that works out, and if I have anymore problems I just want to have a doctor that I have a file with that knows what he's doing. Don't know what it is like up in Kingston, but down here in London it is imposible to get in with a doctor that knows HRT at all. From Komer's website, and talking to him a bit it looks like he knows far more then the endo, uroligist, and GP that I've been to so far. I told the endo I went to I was a past steroid user, and I got some Libido problems now. He told me that I was completly normal, cause my test was in the normal range, and some guys just don't get it up. What kinda sh!t is that?

sorry for going off topic a bit op.

[underrated831]

I'm a very busy person so it's going to take a while before I finally get around to setting up another doctor's appointment. Is there anything I can take in the meantime, like maybe nolva or clomid? thanks

[lacey231]

Untill you get your blood tests back I wouldn't do anything. Your pretty much just shooting blindly in the dark in this case. You might do some good, or you might f*ck something up worse. Nolva, or Clomid seem pointless to me. If you havn't recovered by now from your cycles your not going to recover. You need blood tests.

I understand your busy, but if I were you I'de be bumping this up pretty high on my priority list. Only takes an hour off work to get in a doc, and an hour to go get the blood tests.

[underrated831]

Do you konw any way to increase cortisol levels right before the test? So my cortisol levels will be dramatically high so that the doctor will take me seriously? Thanks

oh and where can I find an HRT clinic?

[lacey231]

Do you konw any way to increase cortisol levels right before the test? So my cortisol levels will be dramatically high so that the doctor will take me seriously? Thanks

oh and where can I find an HRT clinic?

Why would you want to pay all that money to get a test that is wrong. If your serious about getting fixed up you need a correct test, and a good doc that knows what he's doing. Not fake tests and a doc that doesn't know enough about it to only treat you at extremes. Like I said earlier low test, and high estrogen can throw off your circadic rythem which could be giving you the weird cortisol levels. So if you start messing with the cortisol levels you might be messing with something that is just a symptom of another problem, instead of fixing the root of the problem. You need the blood test I mentioned earier and a good doc.


What state do you live in? No one can help you find a HRT clinic if they don't know where you live.

[underrated831]

Why would you want to pay all that money to get a test that is wrong. If your serious about getting fixed up you need a correct test, and a good doc that knows what he's doing. Not fake tests and a doc that doesn't know enough about it to only treat you at extremes. Like I said earlier low test, and high estrogen can throw off your circadic rythem which could be giving you the weird cortisol levels. So if you start messing with the cortisol levels you might be messing with something that is just a symptom of another problem, instead of fixing the root of the problem. You need the blood test I mentioned earier and a good doc.


What state do you live in? No one can help you find a HRT clinic if they don't know where you live.

I live in San Diego, California

[lacey231]

I live in San Diego, California

I don't know any there, but I think I've heard California has HRT clinics.

Try going to these 2 forums. At the top of each their is a sticky helping people find good doctors. If you can't find one in your area in the sticky, just make a thread and ask.


http://*************.com/forum/male-anti-aging/


http://forum.****morphosis.com/mens-health-forum/

[lacey231]

Sorry, I guess it wont let you post websites. substitue anabolic minds for the * on the first one, and m e s o for the * in the second one. that should get you some lists of good doctors in your area


Edit- And you can also go to http://www.lef.org/doctors/directory...tml#CALIFORNIA

To pre-qualify and select the right doc, call him or his staff and ask: how many men he/she treats for hypogonadism, if he/she offers hCG therapy in addition to TRT, if he/she uses Arimidex to keep E2 down, and checks for Primary or Secondary Hypogonadism.

[underrated831]

Man! This is the info I needed all along. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I really appreciate that.

[lacey231]

Glad to help.


Also I don't think your problem is cortisol related really. I found what I was looking for. LH, and FSH stimulates the P450scc enzyme, which converts CHOL to pregnenolone. This increases the "building blocks" for hormone production. Pregnenalone is a precurser to glucocorticoids, and DHEA which would result in wacky values there.

If you took steroids when you were 18 your probably secondary hypogonadal. Which would mean your body isn't producing enough LH, and FSH to pump out testosterone , and the Test you are producing is being converted to Estradiol instead of free test. This extra Estradiol is hwat keeps your body from producing the extra LH, and FSH.

So because of the low LH, and FSH to produce testosterone, that could be the reason why your cortisol levels are off.

[Tapout]

lacey--very impressive responses bro--keep this up and you will become one of the highly valued members and you will have a 100 questions asked from you daily(which is kinda cool)
also you are touching on things that alot of people dont know about or even think of but all can coincide with one another.

also completely agree with you on altering a test--underrated you want a true test so you can find the problem and fix it--it does not sound like you are one who just wants test from the doc so they take birth control pills for a couple of days to get estro up and test down--it actually sounds like you just want problem corrected so go to doc and get the tests run

[lacey231]

Thanks bro. I don't really have enough time to help a 100 people a day, but I'll try and help as much as I can around here.

[Second2None]

ive got the same issue i took so much test 5yrs ago igained 40 pds. in 2months hormones seem off, stomach alwayz seems really bloated what do you think could help

[Second2None]

what is a hrt clinic

[lacey231]

HRT clinic- Hormone replacement therepy clinic.

When you say you took so much test. How much did you take, how old were you, how long did you take it, did you do a PCT, and have you had anyblood work done since then?

[underrated831]

OK I have a follow up on this matter. I finally went to go see a doctor, it took a long time because he's a very busy doctor. I'm supposed to see him again in 20 days because he's so busy.

He told me in this situation he probably won't give me any drugs or things I need for life or something like that. I think it's because he thinks I'm a druggy because I told him I've taken m1t, dbol , nolva, clomid, letro, ephedrine hcl, clenbuterol .


So he probably wants to do things with natural remedies.

Anyway he's gonna have me get bloodwork for :

-cortisol
-dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate
-igf-1
-testosterone , free, direct
-vap cholesterol profile

-estradiol
-24 hour urinary OH corticosteroids
-24 hour urinary ketosteroids
-metabolic panel
-CBC with Diff With Pit
TSH, 3rd generation.


He thought I was some kind of med student or I studied in the field of medicine because he said I was very knowledgeable. But I learned everything from you guys haha.

He also mentioned that he might think I have an adrenal burnout? and that i probably dont have excess cortisol. He kept mentioning somethinga bout pituary glands.

Please let me know if I am heading in the right direction so far. Thank you very much

[Tapout]

getting tested is in the right direction for sure--just what happens next is whats important
let us know results then we will go from there

[bigj91]

hey been watching this thread, registered, so I could chime in, i had some hormone problems, my internist refered me to a endo, he said they have the most knowledge about these kind of things. The funny thing was though he knew i was a inquisitive and knowledgeable patient, so he didnt refer me to the usual local endo he refers other patients, he refered me to a top endo 200 miles away from us, at a research hospital. Also from my experience if your doctor is a family doctor, i suggest you go see a real doctor-internist.

[underrated831]

OK the blood test and 24 hour urine results are back. The doctor said I have Low OH corticosteroids which means ADRENAL WEAKNESS.

Does that have anything to do with the problems that I've listed? If I cure my adrenal weakness will my puffy face get back to normal? thanks

[ironaddict69]

I live in San Diego, California

wow wow wow wow WAIT.

i live in mission viejo (orange county) i see an AMAZING HRT dr, not a clinic but a dr just for HRT. he practices out of tustin, california. PM me if your interested. i cant state enough that he has taken me a long way, and were almost to a solution

[underrated831]

wow wow wow wow WAIT.

i live in mission viejo (orange county) i see an AMAZING HRT dr, not a clinic but a dr just for HRT. he practices out of tustin, california. PM me if your interested. i cant state enough that he has taken me a long way, and were almost to a solution

Man am I glad to meet you! I'm moving to the OC in a week or two so this is perfect. I tried to PM you but it wouldnt let me it said I dont have permission to that page or whatever. Is there any other way I can contact you? Thank you very much

[ironaddict69]

Man am I glad to meet you! I'm moving to the OC in a week or two so this is perfect. I tried to PM you but it wouldnt let me it said I dont have permission to that page or whatever. Is there any other way I can contact you? Thank you very much

ah ya u havent been here long enough to PM. dumb rule. anyway, uh yeah hit me up on aim instant messenger. my sn is ironaddict69.