Help with TRT

[stogie1969]

New to the board here. I have read sticky's about TRT. I am 35 and went to the doctor for ED. I have been lifting using Rippatoe's starting strength program for the better part of a year. I have made modest gains, but my body is changing. I am fairly new to lifting, and I was surprised to start having problems. I have never cycled.
Last week doctor gave me viagra and drew my blood. Found out Friday my free test was 50 and total was 260. I met with him today and he is going to give me the patch after my PSA comes back good. I asked him if he tested LH, Estradiol, Thyroid. He said he didn't, and that he wouldnt. He told me he was not concerned about Estrogen because I didn't have gyno. I told him about what I read and he was generally unimpressed and just pressed me to make a decission about if he should write the script.
From what I have read I should have a full Blood work done before starting TRT. This guy does not want to. Should I drop him and look for another DOC, or just take the patch, since he is willing to prescribe it?
My ED is fine when I am not working out. Does this happen to anyone else. The Doc told me it wasn't important to have big muscles for good health, I could believe he said that. Even with the low T I feel better than I did before when I was just a fat softie.

Wes

[FallenWyvern]

Your life will change when you get your test levels fixed. I am 33 ,mine was little bit higher than yours and I got my life back when I started TRT.

I can see the doctors point of view. I was skeptic until my 3rd day in. I think he wants you to try it and see for yourself. You will pretty much know right away if test is the problem.

I can't see any risk to patches, they are kinda mild.

[stogie1969]

Went to fill my prescription and found out that a pre-authorization is needed. I guess the doctor needs to call the insurance and give testimony to the need. I thought it would take a day. The pharmacist told me they have seen it take as much as 3 weeks. I asked how much without insurance. for 1 months worth of patches it will be $250. I think I am going to wait and see what happens with the insurance.

[Kale]

Your Dr is a fvcking idiot. Find a new one ASAP

[keith1958]

Yea your doctor is a pretty stupid and probably a douche bag. Take what you can get off him and start looking for a different doctor. And if he is a douche then keep going, but get what you can from them. And good luck. /by the way the patches from what I heard don't do alot.

[FallenWyvern]

Went to fill my prescription and found out that a pre-authorization is needed. I guess the doctor needs to call the insurance and give testimony to the need. I thought it would take a day. The pharmacist told me they have seen it take as much as 3 weeks. I asked how much without insurance. for 1 months worth of patches it will be $250. I think I am going to wait and see what happens with the insurance.

Get a script for test cyp and pay for it yourself. You can go for almost a year on cyp for that amount for the amount of test that would get used.

[zaggahamma]

Your Dr is a fvcking idiot. Find a new one ASAP

DITTO

[stogie1969]

the update is ............that there is none. My Douche bag doctor has still not contacted insurance provider to get authorization. I travel alot and was trying to get my script filled before leaving for Denver. I am now in Denver for 8 weeks. I really dont think any doctor or uro is going to want to see me if I am not local. Anyone had any experience with this. All I can think about now is how much better my gains could be if I had a normal T level.

[zaggahamma]

the update is ............that there is none. My Douche bag doctor has still not contacted insurance provider to get authorization. I travel alot and was trying to get my script filled before leaving for Denver. I am now in Denver for 8 weeks. I really dont think any doctor or uro is going to want to see me if I am not local. Anyone had any experience with this. All I can think about now is how much better my gains could be if I had a normal T level.

difference is night/day....sorry about your doc...a lot of us have dealt with this...8 weeks is plenty time to get a script...i dont see why they would care if you are local or not...good luck

[Peducho0113]

Look for another Doc and good luck with your new one

[stogie1969]

I have decided to take the advice of people on this board. I made an appointment today with a Urologist in Denver. It seems Uro's are a bit harder to get into quickly. I am going in Apr 9th. So far this seems promising, the receptionist was really helpful, and guided me to the doctor she thought would be best for my sypmtoms. I am going to keep plugging away at this until I find a doctor that will get me the test cyp.
On another note I want to ask opinions on how to present my request for test cyp to the doctor. I have learned not to push the ED issue but the tiredness and lack of drive issue. Should I go in with lots of info I researched or should I just play dumb? should I just come right out and say I want a script for test cyp becasue this is what I think I need? What has worked for you.

Regards,

Stogie

[zaggahamma]

yes it is definately better to state what you want and kind of in a way that shows that you know that you are paying him to provide a service to you...i always took the approach of stating what i have researched try to let him acknowledge as not to bruise any doctor ego....but i never let the doctor do all the talking and never leave without asking all ?'s
if the ranges are the same that i am used to seeing at most labs, your free test looks quite high and he will possibly want to do another blood work since you had only one and also usually an mri of the pituitary is in order b4 prescribing test
is ED the only symptom you are having?

[stogie1969]

ED is not the only symptom, but it is the one that made me decide to go to a doctor. I have deminished lebido, and stamina. It is also kind of hard to describe, but a general lack of focus, especially at work. That is normally not like me.
With that said I have still committed to working out. I was following Mark Rippatoe's starting strenght program with includes squating 3 times a week. I was able to do this for about 6 months varied, setting personell records. Now the gains are slowing way down. Last week I just got to the point where I decided I needed a week off, I just didnt want to get under that bar again.During the week off I noticed some small changes in the ED department. This week I got back into the lifting and I am back in the same boat I was in. I have a feeling my body just doesnt like to be pushed that hard, or at least my Test levels are somehow affected by the exercise.
I will admit I look healthy, and if a doctor sees me he might not want to prescribe anything. It is going to be hard to convince a doctor to put me on Test because I want to optimize my gains. So I really want to sell him the side affects, even if I could manage my life without the supplement T. I may be at the borderline point of needing test, but that sucks to be low normal.I want to be more muscular, and I cant help thinking If i had normal test levels I would see better results. Sorry for writting a book, I do apreciat all the help.

[whiteowl]

stogie

i retired at 54....and am now buying back into the same business 2 yrs later....my attitude for the 1+ yrs my dr was trying to get me on anti-depressants was either f**k it or f**k you...after establishing myself through commitment alone in my business i just retired.... did not have the fire, and now i am buying back into it.....which is why i tend to rant from time to time...because of a few headlines from a few athletes, drs are reluctant to deal directly with a problem they know exists....the patient says, i am tired all the time, can't stay focused on scat; can't sleep, not interested in sex, life or what i am interested in, i don't have the energy or the stamina to do it right and our Drs say oh geez you must be depressed....well, no s**t sherlock....so it is again more acceptable for the medical establishment to treat the symptoms......i KNOW you do not feel like going right at them but you have to mate.....there is life after....and it'll piss you off that they let however much time has elasped in your life ....i did a search on WebMD ...plugged in my symptoms and it comes back testosterone deficiency....and my dr is in his 50's and i found it out in ten minutes......and they KNOW....anyway....i am with you ....

[zaggahamma]

ED is not the only symptom, but it is the one that made me decide to go to a doctor. I have deminished lebido, and stamina. It is also kind of hard to describe, but a general lack of focus, especially at work. That is normally not like me.
With that said I have still committed to working out. I was following Mark Rippatoe's starting strenght program with includes squating 3 times a week. I was able to do this for about 6 months varied, setting personell records. Now the gains are slowing way down. Last week I just got to the point where I decided I needed a week off, I just didnt want to get under that bar again.During the week off I noticed some small changes in the ED department. This week I got back into the lifting and I am back in the same boat I was in. I have a feeling my body just doesnt like to be pushed that hard, or at least my Test levels are somehow affected by the exercise.
I will admit I look healthy, and if a doctor sees me he might not want to prescribe anything. It is going to be hard to convince a doctor to put me on Test because I want to optimize my gains. So I really want to sell him the side affects, even if I could manage my life without the supplement T. I may be at the borderline point of needing test, but that sucks to be low normal.I want to be more muscular, and I cant help thinking If i had normal test levels I would see better results. Sorry for writting a book, I do apreciat all the help.

No, you are actually spot on in the way you describe your symptoms and yes you should be rewarded for hard work in the gym....and you are also right by not approaching a doc by being overly concerned about "bulking up" ....focus more on the other symptoms you are experiencing...i also had hit a plateau and was wondering wtf is going on and low and behold i was right at the bottom of the test level and was hoping that i could still get a RX since i was still in range just got to find the right doc....some wont RX if in range
best of luck...keep working hard

[stogie1969]

Went and saw a Euro in Denver this week. Told him about my experiences with my Primary doctor. He agreed right away that more blood tests were needed and that a determination of primary or secondary Hypogonadalism was in order. As I was waiting to get my blood taken I noticed that the doc did not order an estradiol levels screen. I had the lab take an extra vial of blood and called the doc to ask if he would order this. He said he would but I might have to pay out of pocket. Any way I am optimistic, this guy seems to want to work with me. I read the book Testosterone Syndorome by Dr. Shippen. I am considering asking for the test lozenges rather than patch or shots. This seems like a very promissing solution, and quite capable of get the test into the higher levels. I know everyone here says go with injectables. Dr shippen says it is the worst way to administer TRT. He claims that too big an influx of test during the shot seems to cause the body to aromatize the test. I dont claim to have any real life experience so please dont flame me. Just want to see what others think.

[zaggahamma]

Went and saw a Euro in Denver this week. Told him about my experiences with my Primary doctor. He agreed right away that more blood tests were needed and that a determination of primary or secondary Hypogonadalism was in order. As I was waiting to get my blood taken I noticed that the doc did not order an estradiol levels screen. I had the lab take an extra vial of blood and called the doc to ask if he would order this. He said he would but I might have to pay out of pocket. Any way I am optimistic, this guy seems to want to work with me. I read the book Testosterone Syndorome by Dr. Shippen. I am considering asking for the test lozenges rather than patch or shots. This seems like a very promissing solution, and quite capable of get the test into the higher levels. I know everyone here says go with injectables. Dr shippen says it is the worst way to administer TRT. He claims that too big an influx of test during the shot seems to cause the body to aromatize the test. I dont claim to have any real life experience so please dont flame me. Just want to see what others think.

kudos on the new doc and yes often the case is that when you take more test at once it will aromatize as is why a lot on hrt will be on small doses of arimidex
good job calling the doc back and getting the estradial and if he signs for it and you have decent insurance you wont have to pay extra for that
sorry dont know anything about test lozenges...love that shot
hope you get your game back soon bro

[Coach 44]

Know what you mean bro about these damn docs refusing to run the estrdiol test. I've had this rash on my back for about two months and the docs (both my primary and my Uro) just blow me off when I request an est test. The Uro went so far as to just say, "Yeah, that acne on your back is from the test. You should lower your dose." The dude didn't even let me take take off my shirt and show him my back. What a douche! He's like the docs that some of my bro's here talk about, doesn't let me say anything. He's a fat, arrogant slob but hey...he had to sign off for the test cyp to be covered by my insurance, so I can deal with it.
Keep up your quest dude, you will get what you need eventually.

[whiteowl]

hey stogie...how did the 4/9 dr visit turn out?

[stogie1969]

White owl,


See my post a just up the page a bit, that was from the visit on the 9th. I am waiting till Wed the 16th to go pay another co-pay so he can tell me the results of tests. He will either put me on Chorionic gonadotrophin, or test depending on what the results are.
On an unrelated not I just did something stupid. I was sick with the flu and was out of the gym for the last week. I decided I better get back to the gym before I get too used to not working out. I told myself to just take it at 80% to ease back into the lifting. After the blood started flowing I and getting through my first couple of back exercises I went for the deadlifts. I looked at my log book and saw I did 340 last time, which was a personal record for me.......dont laugh. After doing several warmup sets upping the weight each time, i decided to go for 350. I didnt even get the bar off the ground and I could just fell something go in my lower back. I put the weights away, finished my other exercises and went home knowing I was going to be in a world of hurt the next day. So now on top being off with the flu, I am need to nurse this injury before I can lift again. Doh!
I could proabably be superman if my test levels were normal.............just kidding

[whiteowl]

we have all been there....for twenty years i worked people into the weight room for their first time....my pitch to young guys was always the same..."Check your ego at the door"....which was easy for me to say having had similar incidents in my own history as you just described....hope your injury turns out to be not that bad and really hope your doc sees fit to prescribe test for you....at 35 you still have really good years left in the sport of weightlifting...best of it to you M8.