TRT Advice??

**Mr.2005** · 09-20-2008, 04:13 AM

Im a newbe here.Was wondering if I can get a hold of a DOC from your area cuz no one in my area provides those services.I have insurance that will cover HGH,Test,Deca 100%
but I need a DOC to prescibe me a Blood work test and see that Im low in the hormonal department and send me off with some goodies.

**FallenWyvern** · 09-20-2008, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Mr.2005

Im a newbe here.Was wondering if I can get a hold of a DOC from your area cuz no one in my area provides those services.I have insurance that will cover HGH,Test,Deca 100%
but I need a DOC to prescibe me a Blood work test and see that Im low in the hormonal department and send me off with some goodies.

http://www.lef.org/doctors/directoryofdoctors01.htm

**SWOLLL** · 09-20-2008, 11:04 PM

If you go to the "trt recipe for success" in this link there is a lot of info about the pellets.
http://www.allthingsmale.com/publications.html

Unfortunantely its not all good, says dr.s like to use them to generate revenue when they are not really best for you.

Give it a read and you can draw your own conclusions, if you like.

**EBuck** · 09-24-2008, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by FallenWyvern

The pellets sound expensive and hassle.

Why not just inject "bio-identical" testosterone cypionate once a week? Less invasive and cheaper.

Well I'm not sure they are that expensive. I, of course, don't know what the difference in the injectable is.

Like I said the pellets come in at $50/each. She gave me 10 so $500 for a 6 month supply.

Of course they are charging $200 to implant them.

And I think the hassle of 1 week off every 6 months is less than injecting once a week.

Of course the jury is still out on them. This is week 3 for me and my focus is getting better each day. More blood work in 3 more weeks which will tell the tale for me.

**EBuck** · 09-24-2008, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by THORSZ

I vote for heaving breast, altough Fallen's avy distracts me...

No joke!

I find myself getting lost in that avatar.

**EBuck** · 09-24-2008, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by SWOLLL

If you go to the "trt recipe for success" in this link there is a lot of info about the pellets.
http://www.allthingsmale.com/publications.html

Unfortunantely its not all good, says dr.s like to use them to generate revenue when they are not really best for you.

Give it a read and you can draw your own conclusions, if you like.

Yeah I read that and it originally turned me off on pellets. But I found there was quite a few more people that had used them that really liked them.

So I decided to give it ago for the 6 months. If it doesn't work out for me I will be changing to IM injection.

I do realize there is an additional cost for implantation every 6 months. But I don't see it as overly expensive.

I am just looking for the best treatment that is the most convenient.

**THORSZ** · 09-24-2008, 12:24 PM

[QUOTE=EBuck;4218352]Well I'm not sure they are that expensive. I, of course, don't know what the difference in the injectable is.

Like I said the pellets come in at $50/each. She gave me 10 so $500 for a 6 month supply.

Of course they are charging $200 to implant them.

My insurance covers my test and I just pay the deductable. A 10ML bottle runs about $100 if you didn't use insurance and last about 20 weeks depending on the dosage. What I like about injecting is that you can control the dosage.

**SWOLLL** · 09-24-2008, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by EBuck

Yeah I read that and it originally turned me off on pellets. But I found there was quite a few more people that had used them that really liked them.

So I decided to give it ago for the 6 months. If it doesn't work out for me I will be changing to IM injection.

I do realize there is an additional cost for implantation every 6 months. But I don't see it as overly expensive.

I am just looking for the best treatment that is the most convenient.

There is also the risk of infection etcetera that comes with any type of
surgery.

I couldn't do the one week off every 6months thats quite a bit of money to me and when I take my vacation I don't want to use it to recover.

The injections really aren't bad. I was the worlds worst years ago about needles but hundreds of sticks later and no more problems

Looks like the price is less than half for injections even without insurance about $100 for two and a half months so about $300 for over 7 months at 1cc a week.

I would figure the dosing would be the problem if the 10 pellets raises your test levels to high then they have to take some out, right?

If your happy with them thats all that matters I hate to sound like I'm bashing the pellets when I only know what I've read. There are several Dr.s around Houston that only offer the pellets and I figure they're just trying to take more of my money, but who knows...

Keep us posted.

**zaggahamma** · 09-24-2008, 08:22 PM

yes keep the post alive please as there aren't many threads concerining this method of trt....definately new learning here

**FallenWyvern** · 09-25-2008, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

yes keep the post alive please as there aren't many threads concerining this method of trt....definately new learning here

2nd that. I would be interested in this, if it is as effective as my current dosage.

One week off doesn't sound that great compared to 5 minutes once a week. Doing self injections, I admit are a bitch at first but, they really only take like 5 minutes and you are good to go.

I am open to this delivery method and I want to learn more.

**Kale** · 09-25-2008, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by FallenWyvern

2nd that. I would be interested in this, if it is as effective as my current dosage.

One week off doesn't sound that great compared to 5 minutes once a week. Doing self injections, I admit are a bitch at first but, they really only take like 5 minutes and you are good to go.

I am open to this delivery method and I want to learn more.

I dont even think about it any more, it literally takes me two minuts to inject from beginning to end. Its quicker than taking a dump (most of the time) !!!

**SWOLLL** · 09-25-2008, 10:20 PM

[QUOTE=FallenWyvern;4222734]2nd that. I would be interested in this, if it is as effective as my current dosage.

One week off doesn't sound that great compared to 5 minutes once a week. Doing self injections, I admit are a bitch at first but, they really only take like 5 minutes and you are good to go.

I am open to this delivery method and I want to learn more.[/QUOTE]

This is what turned me off http://www.allthingsmale.com/publications.html
plus the inconvenience and price

**zaggahamma** · 09-27-2008, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by Kale

I dont even think about it any more, it literally takes me two minuts to inject from beginning to end. Its quicker than taking a dump (most of the time) !!!

same here...sometimes jab b4 brush teeth in the morn

**EBuck** · 09-30-2008, 10:30 AM

Well week 4 and I'm turning into a horndog. My wife is now starting to not like it..... She works during the day and goes to class at night and so she is pretty tired when she gets home. And of course I'm not.

Focus is getting better, and my body over all is just feeling better. I seem to have a general feeling of well being now that I haven't had in a while.

I finally got to feeling like I wanted to work out last Thursday.....

OMG I was so sore the entire weekend. Up until now I have been an on again/off again exerciser. But my mind just kept telling me to push it. So I think I overdid it for the the first workout.

I am still a little sore in my shoulders this morning, but everything else seems to have gotten better.

I will say it is really hard to ride a motorcycle when you feel like you have blades jabbed into your triceps every time you move.

I'm taking a multi vitamin because the doc said it would be good. Is there anything I can take to help alleviate the pain? And any recommended supplements for feeding the muscle? I assume protein is needed, but I'm not sure I am getting enough.

Thanks!

**THORSZ** · 09-30-2008, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by EBuck

Well week 4 and I'm turning into a horndog. My wife is now starting to not like it..... She works during the day and goes to class at night and so she is pretty tired when she gets home. And of course I'm not.

Focus is getting better, and my body over all is just feeling better. I seem to have a general feeling of well being now that I haven't had in a while.

I finally got to feeling like I wanted to work out last Thursday.....

OMG I was so sore the entire weekend. Up until now I have been an on again/off again exerciser. But my mind just kept telling me to push it. So I think I overdid it for the the first workout.

I am still a little sore in my shoulders this morning, but everything else seems to have gotten better.

I will say it is really hard to ride a motorcycle when you feel like you have blades jabbed into your triceps every time you move.

I'm taking a multi vitamin because the doc said it would be good. Is there anything I can take to help alleviate the pain? And any recommended supplements for feeding the muscle? I assume protein is needed, but I'm not sure I am getting enough.

Thanks!

I just started back to protein powder myself. I would work up to a gram per body pound if you are regular in the gym. As far as other supps, I take a multi, flaxseed oil, fish oil, and milk thistle.
Horndog? Welcome to the club brother! I have not been able to keep my hands off my wife since I started treatment. I am in between jobs right now and she can't wait for me to get back to work. I think my hands are permanently attached to her boobs.

**EBuck** · 09-30-2008, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by SWOLLL

There is also the risk of infection etcetera that comes with any type of surgery.

This is true. Although I am not sure I would call it surgery. To me it is the equivalent of sticking a really fat needle in your thigh.

Originally Posted by SWOLLL

I couldn't do the one week off every 6months thats quite a bit of money to me and when I take my vacation I don't want to use it to recover.

Not sure I said this correctly or I'm not understanding what you are saying. I didn't take a week off to do it. In fact it was about 10 minutes in the office. Of course they don't want you taking a 'bath' for the first week afterwards, and no heavy lifting for that week. That is primarily because they don't suture it.

Originally Posted by SWOLLL

The injections really aren't bad. I was the worlds worst years ago about needles but hundreds of sticks later and no more problems

Looks like the price is less than half for injections even without insurance about $100 for two and a half months so about $300 for over 7 months at 1cc a week.

This is probably this biggest issue. I just didn't realize that the injections were that much cheaper. Mainly because I was coming from using the gels which was running me $98/month w/ insurance. At this rate I am on it for the 6 months at least.

Originally Posted by SWOLLL

I would figure the dosing would be the problem if the 10 pellets raises your test levels to high then they have to take some out, right?

Yeah I suppose you are correct here as well. She did say she felt like I should have 11 pellets, but went with 10 to be safe. That could be a big problem. And I am guessing that I am to trusting of the doctor to make an educated guess.

Originally Posted by SWOLLL

If your happy with them thats all that matters I hate to sound like I'm bashing the pellets when I only know what I've read. There are several Dr.s around Houston that only offer the pellets and I figure they're just trying to take more of my money, but who knows...

Keep us posted.

Quite the contrary. You have some valid points. For me it all comes down to convenience and price. Of course I was holding convenience at a higher value than price because I assumed that price was closer to what I had been doing with the gels.

**THORSZ** · 09-30-2008, 04:54 PM

Quite the contrary. You have some valid points. For me it all comes down to convenience and price. Of course I was holding convenience at a higher value than price because I assumed that price was closer to what I had been doing with the gels.[/QUOTE]

I think a lot of it has to do with patents. I know adrogel has a patent because of its delivery method and that makes it expensive to use. They can't put a patent on test cypionate because it is something that is naturally occurring in the body, which keeps the price down and pharmaceutical are less likely to promote it to doctors because there is less money in it. I wonder if there is a patent on pellets.

**SWOLLL** · 09-30-2008, 09:12 PM

Well EBuck glad to hear its going so well for you.

I think I misunderstood you I thought you said you had to take a week off work every 6months.

Keep up the good work in the gym its amazing how quickly you can notice a difference, I am gaining weight but tightening my belt and my strength has just gone through the roof this week.

**EBuck** · 10-03-2008, 12:20 PM

Well my wife told me last night that the 'boys' were all but gone. I hadn't even thought to check them out.

I did a bit of check and yup they are all but gone.

I'm not sure I care unless there is a reason to keep them around. Does it hurt having them small?

Of course if my wife wants them back I am going to have to do something. And since she noticed, I guess I should probably look at bringing them back into play.

What does one do in order to bring the boys back?

**zaggahamma** · 10-03-2008, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by EBuck

Well my wife told me last night that the 'boys' were all but gone. I hadn't even thought to check them out.

I did a bit of check and yup they are all but gone.

I'm not sure I care unless there is a reason to keep them around. Does it hurt having them small?

Of course if my wife wants them back I am going to have to do something. And since she noticed, I guess I should probably look at bringing them back into play.

What does one do in order to bring the boys back?

HCG ....I am going to be getting on soon myself....road to plumpville

**EBuck** · 10-06-2008, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

HCG ....I am going to be getting on soon myself....road to plumpville

Ok now I'm curious. My wife has been talking about HCG but from a diet perspective. I'm wondering if it is the same thing.

**zaggahamma** · 10-06-2008, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by EBuck

Ok now I'm curious. My wife has been talking about HCG but from a diet perspective. I'm wondering if it is the same thing.

i do believe i heard that women were taking shots of that in the belly and think its the same thing...you two can buy in bulk

**CrazyGringo** · 10-06-2008, 07:09 PM

If you do a search for "Simeons protocol" on YouTube they're a bunch of video clips from people using HCG for dieting. I've only used it to help the boys but these people claim it's also good for losing weight. BTW, I know two other people that are using the pellets with mixed results. I posted the link earlier but it was deleted. I guess it's against the rules.

**EBuck** · 10-10-2008, 01:49 PM

So what is the standard dosing for HCG ?

I am curious if it is going to be a daily/weekly thing or if it is something I can get added w/ the pellets.

I guess I will need to ask my doc.

**SWOLLL** · 10-11-2008, 12:26 AM

Yeah ask your doc hopefully he won't react like mine and say thats ridiculous, thats for women.

I hope yours has a clue, good luck.

**EBuck** · 10-20-2008, 08:41 AM

So I had my 6 week blood work taken on Thursday.

While I was there I spoke w/ the nurse. The Doc wasn't in the office.

An update for the past week or so.

My focus has decreased.
My libido has decreased.
My boys have decreased in size.

As I was talking to the nurse she said that is sounded to her like I was converting T to E. So based on my blood results they are probably going to put me on Arimidex until it is resolved.

Of course that depends on whether or not my blood works shows elevated E.

I will know Wed/Thu this week.

**THORSZ** · 10-20-2008, 08:41 PM

Thanks for the update. I think a lot of people on the board are curious about your results with pellets.

**CrazyGringo** · 10-20-2008, 09:31 PM

Good luck amigo and thanks for the update.

**EBuck** · 10-22-2008, 03:22 PM

So the nurse called me today. I am definitely converting T to E. They called in a script for Arimidex . On my original blood work from them my Estrogen was at 19.

She also said I needed to add 2 more pellets and scheduled me in tomorrow for it. That will raise me up to 12 pellets. The doctor originally said she thought 11 would be the magic number but played it safe at 10.

I will get a copy of my latest blood work while I am there tomorrow. I will then post all the relevant information when I get to work.

**EBuck** · 10-23-2008, 12:46 PM

Ok so I'm back with blood work numbers.

My original blood work with my family physician:

Total Test: 227
Estradiol: Not Tested
Prescribed: Androgel

My initial blood work with my new physician:

Total Test: 389
Estradiol: 19
Prescribed: 10x 200mg pellets

My 6wk blood work with my new physician:

Total Test: 717
Estradiol: 79
Prescribed: 2x 200mg pellets, Arimidex

So my estrogen went through the roof. They also wanted to add 2 more pellets because they want me in the 1000 range on the Total Test. And once the E gets under control they thing that will put me right on target.

Dosing for the Arimidex seems a little strange. These are the 1mg pills and they have me taking 1 tablet weekly for 4 weeks, then 1 tablet every other week for 4 weeks, and then 1 tablet every 3 months until gone.

I got a lot of strange looks from the pharmacy. When I spoke to the nurse today she said the pharmacy actually called back because they didn't understand why a man was getting this. I will say it is that Arimidex is not cheap. My insurance won't cover it for men apparently.

The nurse said it would be a week or 2 before the A-dex gets everything back to normal.

**zaggahamma** · 10-23-2008, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by EBuck

Ok so I'm back with blood work numbers.

My original blood work with my family physician:

Total Test: 227
Estradiol: Not Tested
Prescribed: Androgel

My initial blood work with my new physician:

Total Test: 389
Estradiol: 19
Prescribed: 10x 200mg pellets

My 6wk blood work with my new physician:

Total Test: 717
Estradiol: 79
Prescribed: 2x 200mg pellets, Arimidex

So my estrogen went through the roof. They also wanted to add 2 more pellets because they want me in the 1000 range on the Total Test. And once the E gets under control they thing that will put me right on target.

Dosing for the Arimidex seems a little strange. These are the 1mg pills and they have me taking 1 tablet weekly for 4 weeks, then 1 tablet every other week for 4 weeks, and then 1 tablet every 3 months until gone.

I got a lot of strange looks from the pharmacy. When I spoke to the nurse today she said the pharmacy actually called back because they didn't understand why a man was getting this. I will say it is that Arimidex is not cheap. My insurance won't cover it for men apparently.

The nurse said it would be a week or 2 before the A-dex gets everything back to normal.

very interesting doses on the 'dex...not saying wrong as i am just know finding my right dose and have to favor the common dose recommended or often used by TRT ppl here on this site (.25 EOD)....definately dont want to take too much and it looks like you wont....but yeah...estradiol needs to come down from there for sure

about the pharmacists....tell em to read a book on andropause or TRT

**FallenWyvern** · 10-23-2008, 05:04 PM

Take .5 twice a week. This is indefinite. You could always get a script for anastrozole (Arimidex is brand name) and order it from a compounding pharmacy.

Life should suck with your E2 numbers that high.

**Coach 44** · 10-24-2008, 12:36 PM

Ironside: Thanks for sharing your experience, strength, and hope. It takes a lot of courage bro.
Getting back to the original post, your experience is very common around here. I know I went through the Testim b.s. and luckily had a doc that was willing to listen to my suggestion and give me the injectables that I wanted. At that point it was alll about trial and error in regards to my particular dosage. The 200 mg. of cyp per week caused my back to break out, so I went to 100 mgs. per week and it's been smooth sailing ever since. With so much negative publicity these days about gear (which is for the most part wrong), a lot of docs just choose to not explore the topic in-depth.
Keep looking for the treatment that you believe will help you and be patient. It's easier said than done, but it's worth it in the long run. Good Luck bro!

**EBuck** · 10-24-2008, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by FallenWyvern

Take .5 twice a week. This is indefinite. You could always get a script for anastrozole (Arimidex is brand name) and order it from a compounding pharmacy.

Life should suck with your E2 numbers that high.

Oh yeah. The sucky part was the fact that I was really starting to feel great and then got knocked back down again.

So I should just cut the pills and take .5 on Sun and .5 on Wed/Thu?

They are relatively small, splitting them into .25's would be a bit of a challenge I would think.

**zaggahamma** · 10-24-2008, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by EBuck

Oh yeah. The sucky part was the fact that I was really starting to feel great and then got knocked back down again.

So I should just cut the pills and take .5 on Sun and .5 on Wed/Thu?

They are relatively small, splitting them into .25's would be a bit of a challenge I would think.

yes the .25 cut was a challenge for me...wouldnt have been fun if pressed for time...u do have a pill cutter ?

**kloan** · 10-24-2008, 05:42 PM

Is taking adex necessary for life or just until levels become normal?
Are there any sides associated with arimidex ?

**FallenWyvern** · 10-24-2008, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by kloan

Is taking adex necessary for life or just until levels become normal?
Are there any sides associated with arimidex?

I am thinking that unless you lower your dose of test you are gonna be on an AI.

I get blood work done every 6 months and if my e2 number is too low then the arimidex may have to be adjusted.

**zaggahamma** · 10-24-2008, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by kloan

Is taking adex necessary for life or just until levels become normal?
Are there any sides associated with arimidex?

i believe that it is believed to possibly have a negative impact on lipid profiles(long term use)...there is a few paragraphs of info on this site on it ....go to home page and click on steroid profiles and find arimidex

dont believe there are too many studies on the effects/sides on men

**FallenWyvern** · 10-25-2008, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

i believe that it is believed to possibly have a negative impact on lipid profiles(long term use)...there is a few paragraphs of info on this site on it ....go to home page and click on steroid profiles and find arimidex

dont believe there are too many studies on the effects/sides on men

Frankly I am more concerned of the sides of arimidex and HCG than Test.

People have been taking steroids for 50 years and all the sides are well known and documented.

Off label usage of a breast cancer drug for women is something else.

**kloan** · 10-25-2008, 01:08 PM

There must be alternative natural anit-estrogens... what about primrose oil and/or B6?

For higher levels of test, as in on a cycle I can see the need for stronger medication.. but for people who are on TRT on much lower levels, there much be something natural we can take to control estrogen levels... no?