Pants geting tighter and weight going up on TRT

**Vettester** · 01-19-2010, 06:42 PM

Yeah, it looks like you got one of "those" doctors alright. Unfortunately, be prepared that the Endo could be just as bad, if not worse. I went through the same thing only to get a real winner of an Endo who loved AndroGel probably more that my primary. If this Endo can't do you better than this trial and error BS that Dr. Clooney is giving you, then you might need to go to an HRT specialist.

Think about it, you told your doc that you had several concerns about transferring the gel to family members, and his answer is to double your dose! No E2, no plan for balance, just double it up and move em out! Also, they like the wait and see ya in 2 months program. All of this is why HRT Clinics are popping up and cleaning house. A very obvious flaw in the medical arena these days!

**zaggahamma** · 01-19-2010, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by Enfuego129

Correct, no E2 and I think my Dr is in over his head.

Yes I got my referral and when I called for my appointment they said the first available is March 24th. I almost blew a gasket. When I explained why I needed to get in earlier the receptionist suggested faxing my bloodwork a brief cover letter requesting I get in sooner for fear of getting more screwed up. She further said that the problem they have, since it is an Endo is that their diabetic patients have quarterly appointments that fill their calendar quickly. I will also request they call if they have a cancellation.

you just reminded me of something enfuego...i too was in the same boat...i was on the call for cancellation cuz of future appt but i also called once a day...believe it or not that one call a day is like a mo-skee-to in their ear....bam i was in in less than a couple weeks...good luck bro

**zaggahamma** · 01-19-2010, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by vetteman08

Yeah, it looks like you got one of "those" doctors alright. Unfortunately, be prepared that the Endo could be just as bad, if not worse. I went through the same thing only to get a real winner of an Endo who loved AndroGel probably more that my primary. If this Endo can't do you better than this trial and error BS that Dr. Clooney is giving you, then you might need to go to an HRT specialist.

Think about it, you told your doc that you had several concerns about transferring the gel to family members, and his answer is to double your dose! No E2, no plan for balance, just double it up and move em out! Also, they like the wait and see ya in 2 months program. All of this is why HRT Clinics are popping up and cleaning house. A very obvious flaw in the medical arena these days!

this is true...i fired my first endo....she said..."be patient"....

but enfuego....do the 10 mg since thats all you got that is a good dose and maybe that will work for you at least til you get your cyp...

man i got boners all day on that gel...i still got some...i just cant throw it away....lol

**cypionate74** · 01-20-2010, 05:22 AM

JPK, where did you purchase Arimidex . Sounds like you are on TRT? How much are you taking? Is it safe to take it lifelong? How are your liver values?

**Enfuego129** · 01-20-2010, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by jpkman

this is true...i fired my first endo....she said..."be patient"....

but enfuego....do the 10 mg since thats all you got that is a good dose and maybe that will work for you at least til you get your cyp...

man i got boners all day on that gel...i still got some...i just cant throw it away....lol

Could you imagine me showing up at a housefire or an Ambulance request with my crew and me popping a boner for no reason. "Ugh...ill be outside fellas....cant explain right now.......NO I DONT WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT!!!"

**zaggahamma** · 01-20-2010, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by cypionate74

JPK, where did you purchase Arimidex. Sounds like you are on TRT? How much are you taking? Is it safe to take it lifelong? How are your liver values?

all bloodwork is great...it is safe...i read that long term could affect lipids(cholesterol) but i havent experienced any or heard any other posts on here.....

i just recently eliminated arimidex in the last few weeks...

welcome bro...wuts your story

**Vettester** · 01-20-2010, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

all bloodwork is great...it is safe...i read that long term could affect lipids(cholesterol) but i havent experienced any or heard any other posts on here.....

i just recently eliminated arimidex in the last few weeks...

welcome bro...wuts your story

JPK, just curious with what made you quit the Adex? Are your estro stats steady enough that you don't have to take it anymore? I've been taking 0.5mg on Mon, Wed, & Fri, which seems to work pretty well, and it definitely helps with reducing the bloat.

**cypionate74** · 01-20-2010, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

all bloodwork is great...it is safe...i read that long term could affect lipids(cholesterol) but i havent experienced any or heard any other posts on here.....

i just recently eliminated arimidex in the last few weeks...

welcome bro...wuts your story

JPK, my waist increased 2 inches since starting TRT last June. I started off with 5 g Androgel , then increased the dose to 10 g Androgel in two weeks. Starting October, I went on to 100 g cypionate weekly. Now, I am on 120 g cypionate weekly. My doctor is willing to put me on 140 g weekly dose. But, my waist increases with increase of dose. On Androgel, my E2 was 41. On 100 g cypionate my E2 was 31. Now (on 120 g) my E2 is 44. Instead of decrease in bodyfat, my bodyfat increased from 22% to 23%. I also get bloated especially after meals.

Since you have tried Arimidex, can you recommend a legitimate site? JPK and Vette please share the sites you have used to get arimidex. Thank you.

**zaggahamma** · 01-20-2010, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by vetteman08

JPK, just curious with what made you quit the Adex? Are your estro stats steady enough that you don't have to take it anymore? I've been taking 0.5mg on Mon, Wed, & Fri, which seems to work pretty well, and it definitely helps with reducing the bloat.

hey vette...slight libido issues and expense....but mostly expense...but zona dave got me thinking to try to wean down the arimidex by also lowering test which i've done and have completely stopped the arimidex...bout 3 weeks now....100 to 125 mg of test ew without arimidex and all is great

**zaggahamma** · 01-20-2010, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by cypionate74

JPK, my waist increased 2 inches since starting TRT last June. I started off with 5 g Androgel , then increased the dose to 10 g Androgel in two weeks. Starting October, I went on to 100 g cypionate weekly. Now, I am on 120 g cypionate weekly. My doctor is willing to put me on 140 g weekly dose. But, my waist increases with increase of dose. On Androgel, my E2 was 41. On 100 g cypionate my E2 was 31. Now (on 120 g) my E2 is 44. Instead of decrease in bodyfat, my bodyfat increased from 22% to 23%. I also get bloated especially after meals.

Since you have tried Arimidex, can you recommend a legitimate site? JPK and Vette please share the sites you have used to get arimidex. Thank you.

i didnt use a site to buy arimidex ...it is a medically prescribed drug and thats how i got it...a rx from my doctor then to the pharmacy to pick it up....

really weird that you gained waist size/bodyfat...most have the reverse affect when going from having low T and getting on exogeneous test....but when i added arimidex in the beginning along with my test cypionate...i leaned out big time...became vascular....but i got too greedy with the test....common mistake...more aint better

**flatscat** · 01-20-2010, 07:40 PM

High BF is the key here gents. If you start high, and don't alter your lifestyle your bf will go higher, your weight will increase and you will probably see some of the sides you read about on the insert of the cyp you get from the pharmacy.

First, control the E2. Next, alter diet and increase cardio. As you lose bf, you will have to adjust the dose of whatever you are using to control E2 to prevent it from going too low.

T to E2 is a big problem for those of us with higher bf and on trt.

**Vettester** · 01-20-2010, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

hey vette...slight libido issues and expense....but mostly expense...but zona dave got me thinking to try to wean down the arimidex by also lowering test which i've done and have completely stopped the arimidex...bout 3 weeks now....100 to 125 mg of test ew without arimidex and all is great

Cool, sounds like you've got it sorted out. I know what you're saying about expense, as I about fell off the chair when I got my first prescription of Anastrozole. Have you considered L-Dex from Lion? A viable option if you see things start creeping up again.

Sorry Enfuego, but I think we've hijacked this thread for good. We'll buy you a round of Muscle Milk when in Chicago

**zaggahamma** · 01-20-2010, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by vetteman08

Cool, sounds like you've got it sorted out. I know what you're saying about expense, as I about fell off the chair when I got my first prescription of Anastrozole. Have you considered L-Dex from Lion? A viable option if you see things start creeping up again.

Sorry Enfuego, but I think we've hijacked this thread for good. We'll buy you a round of Muscle Milk when in Chicago

no vette...if i needed i still have a little and also a rx with refills and would rather go pharm grade but have heard good things about the liquidex...but hearing and seeing for myself the seeing is gonna win everytime

**zaggahamma** · 01-20-2010, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by flatscat

High BF is the key here gents. If you start high, and don't alter your lifestyle your bf will go higher, your weight will increase and you will probably see some of the sides you read about on the insert of the cyp you get from the pharmacy.

First, control the E2. Next, alter diet and increase cardio. As you lose bf, you will have to adjust the dose of whatever you are using to control E2 to prevent it from going too low.

T to E2 is a big problem for those of us with higher bf and on trt.

hey flat...where the heck u been....

about your post...i lost weight and fat immediately after starting trt without change in diet...it was the test and only the test that i attribute it to...i was already following a good diet and exercising alot but couldnt lose any more fat until after i started...but like i always say its an individual thing

**flatscat** · 01-21-2010, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by jpkman

hey flat...where the heck u been....

about your post...i lost weight and fat immediately after starting trt without change in diet...it was the test and only the test that i attribute it to...i was already following a good diet and exercising alot but couldnt lose any more fat until after i started...but like i always say its an individual thing

JP, You are one of the few lucky ones. I think the vast majority (who start with higher bf, don't have their diet right and cardio going) will see bf increase if no changes are made. You are right about the individual thing. Let's look at how our bodies were in our late teens - we should have been around 800-1000 give or take with our t levels. Some of us had higher than normal bf then too - has to be in the genetics mostly.

It is up to us to make those changes, to really experience all the good trt can do. We have been given a second chance to live a life with normal testosterone levels , so we owe it to ourselves to make the rest of our body as healthy as it can be.

I think high bf is the worst condition to have when on trt. In fact, I would go as far to say the in most cases (notice I said most) doc's should put middle aged guys with high bf on a diet program first and then recheck levels once it has been managed. If the t is still low, then start a replacement program - and you will have eliminated one of the biggest factors that contributes to failed trt outcomes.

Could it be that a ton of folks on a cycle never need an AI during because they have an acceptable bf level for their body and therfore have a lower tendancy to convert? Prolly

Of course, all of this is IMHO,

All my Best,

Flats

**zaggahamma** · 01-21-2010, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by flatscat

JP, You are one of the few lucky ones. I think the vast majority (who start with higher bf, don't have their diet right and cardio going) will see bf increase if no changes are made. You are right about the individual thing. Let's look at how our bodies were in our late teens - we should have been around 800-1000 give or take with our t levels. Some of us had higher than normal bf then too - has to be in the genetics mostly.

It is up to us to make those changes, to really experience all the good trt can do. We have been given a second chance to live a life with normal testosterone levels , so we owe it to ourselves to make the rest of our body as healthy as it can be.

I think high bf is the worst condition to have when on trt. In fact, I would go as far to say the in most cases (notice I said most) doc's should put middle aged guys with high bf on a diet program first and then recheck levels once it has been managed. If the t is still low, then start a replacement program - and you will have eliminated one of the biggest factors that contributes to failed trt outcomes.

Could it be that a ton of folks on a cycle never need an AI during because they have an acceptable bf level for their body and therfore have a lower tendancy to convert? Prolly

Of course, all of this is IMHO,

All my Best,

Flats

good post flat

**ZonaDave** · 01-21-2010, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by flatscat

Could it be that a ton of folks on a cycle never need an AI during because they have an acceptable bf level for their body and therfore have a lower tendancy to convert?

it's possible. i did a cycle in preparation for a show and my bf was really low and i didn't use any AI. it was a great cycle and my libido was through the roof.

age plays a role in how your body deals with T also because it wants to naturally go low while E2 goes high. in either case, excessive bf is bad and you're right...it should be addressed.

one common complaint is as bf goes up so does E2. when E2 goes up T goes down. guys with low T are usually miserable and have little energy during the day to get their work done let alone go to the gym after work so they get fatter. it's one of those "chicken or the egg" things.