Tenebrous's TRT Log

[Tenebrous]

Hey y'all .. at the request of forum veteran Durak, I've decided to go ahead and start a new thread to be my TRT log. I will rehash the important posts from my earlier thread.

Stats:

Age: 30 years old
Height: 5'11"
Weight 190 lbs.
BF: Approximately 20%.

I had previously done about a year on Androgel when I went to see an Endo. Got sick of this guy and went to an anti-aging place. Blood work came back same as it was before I did my year or so on Androgel:

Total Test ~260.
Free test ~11.
LH was at low end of reference range.
Estradiol 28

I have most of the criteria for metabolic syndrome diagnosis as well:
- Visceral Bodyfat. I keep all my fat at belly-level
- Low HDL Cholesterol
- High triglycerides
- Low SHBG (8)
- Low TT

Also have high normal LDL cholesterol. The lipid profile is currently under control through Fenofibrate and Simvastatin.

Doc prescribed the following protocol:
Test Cyp 150mg/week, with leave to go as high as 200mg/week depending on results.
HCG 1000IU Once weekly.
Anastrozole 0.5 mg Twice Weekly.

I have read that 1000IU of HCG once weekly is not ideal, so I decided to split it up at 500IU twice weekly. After further research, I decided to drop down to 250IU 3x/week. Once my current vial is used up I am going to reconstitute a new one with more fluid to switch to this.

I am in week 4 of treatment. I feel more energy, confidence, and strength at the gym now, but have experienced a significant drop in sex drive from the first two weeks of treatment, which is very disappointing. I wonder if anyone has any comment on this? I just started the Anastrozole on Friday.

My current plan is to diet aggressively to get the bodyfat way down. I'd like to see my bodyfat get all the way down to 10% or so, since I have read accounts where people with metabolic syndrome have essentially eliminated it by getting lean. I'd also like to get some visible abs. After that, once I am dialed in with my TRT and have a low, healthy bodyfat, I will consider boosting up to AAS, but not for at least 3 or 4 months down the road.

My diet is currently as follows:
(1) Upon Waking: Lean Body protein shake with 1/2 cup of oatmeal.
(2) 4 x Egg whites, 1 x chicken breast, 2 x slices whole wheat toast
(3) 1 x Chicken Breast, 1/2 cup oatmeal (or equivalent combination)
(4) Can of tunafish.
(5) Post-workout, Lean Body protein shake with 1/2 cup of oatmeal.
(6) 1 x Chicken Breast, mountain of steamed broccoli.

I train every day and try to work in cardio if time permits.

I'll update this log weekly at a minimum. My next bloodwork is the five week mark, which is one week from this coming Friday. Finally, pics of me from right before starting TRT.

[durak]

Don't laugh but I have not been to the gym in years and eat whatever I want, TRT purely for TRT. However that does not mean I can't make improvements.

That diet you are on, how many calories is that? It seems pretty simple.

[Tenebrous]

Don't laugh but I have not been to the gym in years and eat whatever I want, TRT purely for TRT. However that does not mean I can't make improvements.

That diet you are on, how many calories is that? It seems pretty simple.

I calculated it to around 2,200 daily. Carbs stay under 200g. I burn around 2,700 with training. In reality I think I'm actually eating a little less than the 2,200. At first it took some getting used to but now that I'm in the rhythm is actually pretty easy. I've acquired a taste for oatmeal.

Over the last week the test has really started to kick in. I feel a lot stronger and more motivated at the gym. I've been training so hard it hurts. Also just feel more confident and stable. Nice. My only big complaint is that my sex drive is still minimal.

[Tenebrous]

Pin number 5 went in today. You were all right, definitely got much easier. Routine. And for the first time my ass didn't feel weird for the rest of the day, which is nice.

Most noticeable improvement so far is the gym. Now that I've finished week 4, I can definitely say that I feel a substantial change training. I've never trained so hard in my life. I have endless stamina and drive to do much more weight than before. Nice.

Other changes, feel more confident, energy is up, sense of well being and mood are more stable. These changes are more modest than the changes in the gym, though.

Still disappointed in sex drive. Think I might be coming down with a cold though, so maybe that's why. Wish I could get this in check.

Followup blood test scheduled for Thursday of next week. Will advise. Everyone says that libido issues on HRT are usually related to E2 problems. One week ago I started Anastrozole 0.5mg twice weekly. We'll see where I'm at when the blood results come back in about a week or so.

T

[KAOZ]

Your ai could be lowering your estrogen to much which is causing low sex drive. Happens to me when doing ai's sometimes need to adjust your dosage.

[Tenebrous]

May 4th, 2010 update!

Last Thursday got blood draw done, blood work came back yesterday.
TT 764
Free 33.6
Estradiol 26

Doctor says these numbers look good, but recommended raising test C dose to 200mg from 150mg to try to get to 950-1000 for TT. Going to do this on next pin, Friday.

No big changes, but sex drive appears to be coming up now. Still feel like an ogre at the gym, training so hard I'm sore all over. Feels great. May have slowed down a little bit since last week and previous though. Was too tired to party last weekend. Not sure why.

Diet has been perfect, down to 187 since yesterday. Now that I'm past 5 weeks, I should shed about one pound a week, maybe a little less, till I'm totally lean, which should be around August.

[Epic Ed]

Nice job -- keep it up. It's good to hear the doc is willing to let you get to the upper 3rd of the reference range as a goal. There should be no explanation needed to any doc for the desire to do so.

[durak]

thanks for the post!

[Tenebrous]

Quick update .. just did pin 7, this time a full cc, 200mg test C per doctor's advice. Will advise if anything changes!

[Vettester]

Nice job! You shouldn't have any trouble hitting that 1000 mark with the increased dosage. Also, have you considered breaking up the HCG into smaller dosages throughout the week?

Also, good job on the diet! Keep that protein up and you'll be seeing some real amazing results in short time. Are you adding any other OTC supplements to your routine? (Vitamins, glucosamine, EFA's, etc.) I'm sure you do, but just curious what you take and when.

[Tenebrous]

Nice job! You shouldn't have any trouble hitting that 1000 mark with the increased dosage. Also, have you considered breaking up the HCG into smaller dosages throughout the week?

Also, good job on the diet! Keep that protein up and you'll be seeing some real amazing results in short time. Are you adding any other OTC supplements to your routine? (Vitamins, glucosamine, EFA's, etc.) I'm sure you do, but just curious what you take and when.

Thanks Vetteman! I actually started splitting the HCG last week. I do 250 IU 3x/week. Don't really feel any different, but it's supposedly better so I'll keep it up.

Yeah, diet has been solid 6 meals per day, as above, with almost no deviation. At about 187 now, trying to get all the way down to 175 by mid August.

As for OTC supplements .. I take a multivitamin and kelp, for the iodine, per doctor's suggestion. I don't take glucosamine or "EFA's." Is glucosamine the same as glutamine? I'm told this is good for joints, and I think I may have hurt my left elbow by training a little too hard...

[Vettester]

Thanks Vetteman! I actually started splitting the HCG last week. I do 250 IU 3x/week. Don't really feel any different, but it's supposedly better so I'll keep it up.

Yeah, diet has been solid 6 meals per day, as above, with almost no deviation. At about 187 now, trying to get all the way down to 175 by mid August.

As for OTC supplements .. I take a multivitamin and kelp, for the iodine, per doctor's suggestion. I don't take glucosamine or "EFA's." Is glucosamine the same as glutamine? I'm told this is good for joints, and I think I may have hurt my left elbow by training a little too hard...

On the glucosamine and glutamine, they're two different products, BUT both are good to have around. Glucosamine helps with the joints and cartilage repair. Glutamine is an amino acid that helps with metabolism, protein synthesis, cell production. I had a trainer tell me that they even give it to patients with severe burns.

The EFA's are a must IMO. You can Google the benefits of EFA's, which will include the Omeg 3, 6, 9 and some flaxseed oil. Great for the brain, joints, and overall health. I might suggest that you take these with a small amount of peanut butter at night time. Glucosamine and EFA's are a great stack for the joint pain that you're talking about (So is deca , but we'll save that for another time).

Lastly, don't get too frustrated if you see the weight doesn't drop like you anticipate as time progresses. Keep in mind, you have anabolic products combined with a clean, high protein diet(?), which is supported with a committed workout regiment. You're bound to be gaining some muscle along the way while shedding the unwanted stuff. However, we all know muscle weighs more than fat, so there might be times where you think that you're not making progress, when in fact you might be making great progress.

[Tenebrous]

I'm definitely going to pick up some glucosamine and glutamine then. As for the EFAs, I actually take 2 tbsp of ground flaxseed daily, forgot to mention that. I don't take the oils because even one fish oil pill thins my blood so much that I bruise from so much as a light breeze. I'm going to check out the EFA options today though. As for Deca , its on my list for the future...

The diet has been pretty much perfect - between 200g and 250g of protein daily, low fat, no more than 175g carbs. I really don't deviate from the diet in the top post.

Thanks for the suggestions! I will keep updating the log. I'm really hoping that I'll look real lean in august, whether the weight comes all the way down to 175 or not. My friends are telling me that I look leaner AND more muscular, so maybe you're right! I'll take follow up pics soon..

[Tenebrous]

Pin 8 went in today. Easy, no pain. I definitely did something to my left arm, so I am going to rest it until Monday and see how I feel before training upper body again.

I notice that, despite 7 weeks of dieting, my scale weight has not changed much at all. I started at around 190, I'm at 188, and can't seem to get it to go down. On the other hand, my clothes fit lighter, and everyone is telling me that I look leaner or more muscular, so there must be body composition changes going on. Eventually I hope that I start to see some measurable progress though. I'll know for sure I'm making progress when I can see some freaking abs!

Sex drive is still up and down. Last blood work showed E2 of 26, which I'm told is good?

Otherwise, nothing new to report. Just gonna keep on.

[Tenebrous]

Pin 9 today. No problems with it. Left arm problem persists, totally prevented me from training arms yesterday. Going to see a doctor next week about this.

Scale weight STILL hasn't changed but people are telling me that I look leaner, so I'm guessing that my bodyfat is decreasing since my diet has been pretty much perfect as in my original post.

Going to get some new bloodwork done this week to see where I am since I just shot up to 1cc two weeks ago. Going to get a full panel, I'll post it when I get it.

T

[Epic Ed]

Has the libido stabilized? It took me about six weeks.

Is it tendinitis in the left arm, or something else?

If you're hitting it hard in the gym and eating enough calories to give you gains in muscle mass, it wouldn't surprise me to hear your weight on the scale hasn't changed much. You're adding muscle and losing fat. Body composition is changing, so you might have some weeks when the scale hardly moves at all. Keep up the hard work.

[Tenebrous]

Hey thanks Epic Ed.. I'm hitting the gym every day and eating the diet outlined in my first post, with hardly any deviation. So I guess its working!

Libido is better. Not super like I want it to be, but improved so I can't complain too much.

Left arm, I have no idea what it is. I'm going to have it looked by an ortho next week. Someone at the gym just suggested that it was probably tendonitis, though. Assuming it is, what should I do?

I just got some samples of this thing at my gym that has glucosamine so I'll start that tonight.

[talstar]

If you can get deca from your doc I would give it a try. My elbows hurt everytime I worked out and deca cured it after only 2 weeks. I take 200mgs once a week.

[Tenebrous]

End of week 9 update.

Pin 10 went in today, left glut, no problems, easy shot. Left arm has become bad enough to prevent all press exercises. Can't really train chest, shoulders, or arms. Have an appointment with an ortho on this coming Tuesday. I'll post an update right after.

This week I'm going to get more blood work done to see where I am on everything.

Sex drive has improved. I think the upgrade to 200mg/week has taken hold, and I'm feeling improvement. Still not crazy horny like I would prefer, though.

Diet has been mostly intact. I cheated on Friday and Saturday last weekend, but Sunday through Thursday were perfect. Today was mostly perfect but I spent the entire morning surveying a boat, which threw off my usual routine, so when I finally got to a place to eat I ended up cheating with pancakes. So I'm way over on carbs today. I should be okay though, since my diet has been perfect at almost every meal.

When my BF is low and I've completed leaning out, I will investigate including deca and such. Right now my priority is staying consistent with the diet and getting this arm checked out.

[tubs]

hope the arm is ok, mine has been bothering me as well. plan to have him look at it when i go for bloodwork soon.

[Tenebrous]

Hey y'all .. June 5th, 2010 update.

Yesterday was pin 11, easy as usual. Wanted to get blood work done again this week but didn't have time. Hopefully next week!

On Tuesday I saw an ortho re: my arm problems. X-rays were done, showed no visible problems, and manual inspection showed none of the common problems like tennis elbow, golf elbow or anything like that. So the doc said it was probably some kind of tendinitis and prescribed Mobic, 15mg/day. Told me to stay off the elbow for a while, then ease back in with low weight. Follow up in two weeks to see how it is.

Started the Mobic, and got back into upper body training very slowly. Remarkably, I seem to be a lot better. Press exercises no longer causing problems as long as I warm up slow, and I'm back up to full weight on chest press. I stayed away from heavy free-weight shoulder press exercises because they were especially bad, but I think it'll be okay in another week. I'm still having problems with fully supinated bicep isolation exercises, but I can work machines and dumbbells. Hurray! Seems to be improving.

Anyways.

Diet has been perfect during the week but I keep screwing it up going out on the weekends. Scale weight has not changed significantly since I started 11 weeks ago, although everybody who sees me says I look more muscular and leaner, so I guess its working. I've been trying to do as much cardio as I can to make up for my weekend benders. All in all, I'm not doing terrible though. I can't see any difference when I look in the mirror so maybe I should post some pics.

[tubs]

Glad to hear the elbow is doiing better

[Epic Ed]

I understand about the screwing up on weekends. Sometimes it's difficult. It sucks to take 2 steps forward and 1 back, week after week. Keep fighting the good fight.

[Vettester]

Keep up the good fight!

Are there any sides you're seeing with the Mobic? I don't know much about it, but I'm curious how you make out with it.

[crg]

I’ve had similar problems with my L tricep (elbow) and bicep and R shoulder . Just thought I’d share a few things that have worked very well for me. For some background, I’ve been lifting since I was a teenager, I’m 5’7 “, 50 y/o and weight 180. I do NOT perform any heavy overhead /flat pressing movements anymore, period. (for chest I go heavy on inclines only) I put myself out of commission for almost a year in 08-09 by doing overheads reps/sets with 155, and lots of heavy triceps work, skullcrushers/French press/dips. My current shoulder routine is fly’s and dumbbell presses only and my shoulder have grown more from just that than any heavy BB work. For the flys/DB presses check out the Larry Scott videos on youtube, those two are all I do and for me they are the shit. After I warm up its all super-sets or tri-sets and I do both to failure with mod-light weight, just a few sets or you’ll over work them. For triceps: I superset them with biceps, well a variation of a superset. I set curls with chins for bi’s then jump right into pushdowns with kickbacks for tri’s. Do a couple of those then finish with 2 sets of incline DB curl SS with overhead DB extension. The key is to warm up real good with light weight, I do a tri-set of DB presses/flys/curls, at least 25 reps, 2 -3 sets. This works well for me hopefully it will for you , oh yeah cortisone shots help a lot too

[Tenebrous]

Thanks fellas.

Vette to answer your question, I've had no sides from the Mobic, but other people complain of stomach problems. So far I've been lucky.

CRG thanks for that .. I haven't received a coristone shot .. the doc wanted to try Mobic first. I'm still cautious about heavy press exercises, haven't gone back to heavy shoulders yet. I'm going to train legs today then chest again tomorrow and see how the elbow performs. It was better last week but it was bothering me a bit last night, so hopefully I won't be doing worse.

I've resolved to keep the diet clean from here on out, weekends included, until I'm lean. Going to cut out alcohol and try to keep it to one cheat every two weeks. I've been overdoing the cheating.

Gonna go home and eat some chicken breast now. I've cut out an additional 50g or so of carbs, bringing it down to about 100g daily. I hope that's not too low, but I'm trying to make up for the terrible weekend performance. Will update again this week!

[crg]

The shot is the heat, hurts for a few days then no more crunching/ crackling sounds or pain..just dont know how long it will last. Also, flat bench is crazy overrated as a chest exercise, do inclines and flys..also easier on the shoulders/tri's IMO.

I was on meloxicam for some arthritis last year, worked Ok for a few weeks then nothing.
FYI- Be careful of long term nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) like mobic/ibuprofen. I have GERD due to long term ibuprofen useage.

keep one thing in mind: youre 30 and what you do today will catch up with you when youre my age, workout smarter then old dudes like me who over trained, used/misused/abused AAS, over stressed their joints, just abused the shit of of our bodies for years with heavy weights. I'm paying the price today amigo, good luck

[Tenebrous]

Hey guys .. Pin 14 update. Did it this morning, painful inject for some reason, but no real problems.

Finished Mobic, didn't really help. Elbow is still in and out. Might be slowly improving though. Yesterday it hurt at first at the gym, but then I took 5 and it was okay.

Still trying to lean out. Scale weight has barely changed since I started this thing, but people tell me I look leaner and more muscular.

Still haven't gone back for more blood work. I really need to do it next week.

[Tenebrous]

Hey y'all. Pin 15 was last week. My arm is a getting better slowly, but still far from 100%.

Scale weight still hasn't really changed but people are telling me that I am leaner in general. I'm hoping that by September I'll be totally leaned out, with some abs to show for it. Diet has been pretty much rock solid except for a couple of meals on the weekend. The fourth of July screwed me up especially bad.

I still plan to run a basic cycle once I get lean and my blood work looks good. I'm going to get some new blood work done this week. I'll keep you all posted!

[Vettester]

Sounds great!!! I'll be looking to see how your lab results turnout.

Keep up your discipline. It's paying off for you. The scale doesn't mean too much if you're adding muscle and dropping BF at the same time. People telling you that you look leaner is their perception ... Perception is reality!

[rmacgurn]

Hey y'all. Pin 15 was last week. My arm is a getting better slowly, but still far from 100%.

Scale weight still hasn't really changed but people are telling me that I am leaner in general. I'm hoping that by September I'll be totally leaned out, with some abs to show for it. Diet has been pretty much rock solid except for a couple of meals on the weekend. The fourth of July screwed me up especially bad.

I still plan to run a basic cycle once I get lean and my blood work looks good. I'm going to get some new blood work done this week. I'll keep you all posted!

*warning long post*
I have made this comment in PM to Vetteman and others and think it is worth a post here. i have read about 6 threads now with guys starting TRT usually doing 150-200mg or a bit higher in test sometimes a little deca or var added and they all have one thing in common. An injury in 3-6 weeks with all this new found strength. I know about this having done it myself more then once. From what i can tell the goal here for us older guys, is to get fit, lean and feel great again. Hard to do with damaged tendons or ligaments, but that is the common issue, read it over and over doing more weight, upping 20lbs on bench...etc. great if your a BB or 25 yo. if not why not try a better type of workout that gives you both muscle and leanness. i know it is hard to believe but there is a concept called volume work and others smarter then me developed this, i only can say it works great and i have never had any injury since trying this 6 weeks back. but i can say it dropped 2% of my BF when i am in low numbers already for an old guy.

in a nut shell here it is....and the source it came from. I changed it to 4 reps for me and still do 40 min of cardio 3x a week. these routines keep my HR at 135-150 the entire time. If you want to try a cool body weight (or more or less depending on your condition) workout that can accelerate fat burning and build lean muscle, avoid tendon or muscle injury, without cardio or bodybuilder routines, check out this article...




**Time/Volume Training - A Powerful Training Technique That Will Burn Fat and Build Muscle at the SAME Time...Even With Bodyweight Exercises!

By Nick Nilsson


I was stumped... I wanted to figure out a training technique that I could use for body weight training to burn a LOT of fat AND build muscle mass at the same time, using exercises like push-ups or dips where I was able to do 30 to 50+ reps per set.

I was working on this technique to add into the body weight version of my Metabolic Surge - Rapid Fat Loss program ( http://www.Metabolic-Surge.com/ )

Now, as might know, burning fat and building muscle at the same time is not an easy thing to do!

So after experimenting with all kinds rep schemes and set numbers and high-intensity and low-intensity training, it hit me...and it worked like CRAZY.

Enter Time/Volume Training...

This technique allowed me to take body weight exercises where I could do normally do a TON of reps and use them to achieve TREMENDOUS fat burning effects as well as making them HIGHLY effective muscle-builders.

This is a killer combination that literally changed the way I thought about body weight training (and the cool thing is, this technique works GREAT with free weight training as well!).

So how you do Time/Volume Training?

Time/Volume Training is really simple and it can be used with ANY exercise...any time, any place.

It's a form of what's called "density training" where the idea is to NEVER go to failure on any sets but instead focus on doing as MANY sets as you can within a certain block of time.

For working larger bodyparts like back, chest or thigh, I recommend a 15 minute block of time. When working smaller bodyparts (pretty much everything else), use 7 1/2 minute blocks.

Here's what it will look like:

- First, start by doing a set of 3 reps. Then stop and rest 10 seconds. Now do another set of 3 reps. Stop and rest 10 seconds.

- Keep going using 3 rep sets and 10 seconds rest until you can't get 3 reps anymore. When you hit this point, begin taking 20 SECONDS rest in between your 3 rep sets.

- Keep going using 3 rep sets and 20 seconds rest until you again can't get 3 reps anymore. Then take 30 SECONDS rest in between your 3 rep sets. If you have to increase again, go to 40 seconds, and so on.

- Keep going in this fashion until your 15 minutes are up.

It's just that simple! Basically, the idea here is not to go to failure on any of your reps but to manage your fatigue so that you can maximize your training volume (i.e. more reps and sets).

You'll be able to do a LOT more reps with any given exercise, which will seriously crank up your metabolism!

And because you're only doing 3 rep sets, you're using your fast-twitch muscle fibers, which have a LOT more mass and strength potential and burn more calories when you're working them.

Now, just because it's originally designed for body weight training doesn't mean you can't use it with free weights and machines as well - it'll work like a charm for that, too! You can work it with ANY exercise...squats, bench, deadlifts, curls...even ab exercises!

In terms of knowing when to increase resistance (by switching to a more challenging body position or increasing the weight on an exercise), nothing could be simpler...when you can go more than 1/3 of the way through while keeping to 10 seconds rest, then increase. For example, if you can do more than 5 minutes of close-grip chins, switch to wide grip pull-ups. When you can do more than 5 minutes at 185 lbs on the bench press, increase to 195 lbs next time.

And rest assured...even if you can do 50 push-ups, you'll STILL get to a point where you're not able to do 3 reps sets on 10 seconds rest and you'll have to bump up the rest periods. It'll get your metabolism ROARING.

You can insert this style into pretty much any training split and any program. It's truly one of THE best ways I've found to get a fat-burning AND a mass-building effect out of body weight training or free weight training.

[Tenebrous]

Wow thanks for the lengthy post rmacgurn. I think you're right that I trained too hard, too fast since I started the HRT, and caused some harm to myself. All of my joints feel a bit worn. Bad enough that I can't really do heavy flat bench at this time. Mostly its the elbow, but I feel it in my shoulders a bit too. I'm doing some machines for a while instead to try to let everything calm down.

As for the elbow, I went back to the ortho and told him that it might be getting better very slowly. He recommended an MRI just to be doubly sure there's nothing wrong, because it should be healed by now. Its been about six weeks.

Anyways, today was pin 17. Totally painless, easy inject. Scale weight still hasn't changed. Still on the quest to get some visible abs!

[Vettester]

How did your lab results turnout?

[Tenebrous]

Forgot to update on that. I got a full panel done. Here we go:

Main Stuff

TT 1031 ng/dl
Free Test 45.11 ng/dl
IGF-1 365 ng/ml
Estradiol 25.6

A couple things concerned me.
PSA 2.24, pre-HRT test 1.88, time before that 1.9. Its up a little more than 0.3. Is that cause for concern?

Glucose 95, last test 76. Glucose over 100 is prediabetic. Doc told me not to worry, but to watch it.

TSH 4.130. It was 3.3 last time, up significantly.

LH undetectable. No surprise there.

Lipid panel largely unchanged, LDL actually down a bit.