Any luck with Kaiser and going on TRT?

[Times Roman]

Next week I'm going in to discuss TRT with my doctor. Problem is, it's Kaiser and I've heard these guys can be kind of tough when you bring up the subject. Anyone have any tips or advice?

[Vettester]

Good luck with this one. There's been a couple guys on here that I've posted with that have had the same miserable experiences that I've encountered.

First of all, they love Gel, so know that going in the door. Injections aren't impossible, but they're discouraged. One of their endos flat out lied to me and said that it was illegal to do the injection treatments on my own. He stated that was why they call it a controlled substance; meaning it's controlled by them. I also asked this cluck about HCG and he said, "Ah, you want to be like Manny Ramirez, huh?" Had a real hang-up about steroids !

I got one shot by my primary and was told to come back 1 month later. I was refused to have my E2 tested ... They said there's nothing warranting this test. They treat the score, not the patient. E.g., I had a test score come in at 420'sh (Range of 280-800). Doctor said within range, end of discussion. They don't even listen to a guy when he says that being a few hundred points higher helps with energy, concentration, wellness in general, etc., nope, you're the child and they're the doctors. Yeah, the doctors that don't know about 1/2 life, E2 conversion, and how to prevent testicular shrinkage.

Then the real catcher is when you send the endo a few articles from the Society of Endocrinology about the benefits of HCG, Adex, etc., and he fires you. Maybe it's better up north and I'd like to hear how you make out ... Just don't be surprised though if you get similar results.

[Times Roman]

I've also got ulterior motives here too. first, I want to get the weekly shot. then, I want to be able to do that at home. Then, it will be OK to have the works in the house, and pin without my woman being in my face like I'm some kind of junkie. then i can dose whatever I want, and then just tone it down before my next blood test.

but you are right.... patches and gel is better than nothing, but not as good as pinning. I've been mixing 100mg with DMSO and rubbing in daily. I have seen some improvements, and my libido has increased noticeably, but I'm itching to do it the right way.

[forrest_and_trees]

Then the real catcher is when you send the endo a few articles from the Society of Endocrinology about the benefits of HCG, Adex, etc., and he fires you.

What exactly do you mean, "he fired you"?

[Vettester]

Will next week be the first time you have ever brought up the TRT subject to your doctor? Have you already run labs with them and you are showing low "T"?

[Vettester]

What exactly do you mean, "he fired you"?

I mean, he fired me! When I sent him the article he immediately responded with a message that he was sending me back to my primary doctor for the continuation of my treatment. I was about an inch from canning him too, so he basically just beat me to the punch. I kept pressing his buttons about my research on TRT, and my findings were contradictory to what he was preaching. The endo article finally broke his hump!

Times, sorry to get off the track. Hopefully your endeavors with KP will go smoother than what I experienced.

[forrest_and_trees]

I mean, he fired me! When I sent him the article he immediately responded with a message that he was sending back to my primary doctor for the continuation of my treatment. I was about an inch from canning him too, so he basically just beat me to the punch. I kept pressing his buttons about my research on TRT, and my findings were contradictory to what he was preaching. The endo article finally broke his hump!

Times, sorry to get off the track. Hopefully your endeavors with KP will go smoother than what I experienced.

Yah.. sorry about going OT.. I just had to ask. Best of luck with K-Mart.

[valencia1]

I was with Kaiser for 10 years and they simply ignored the low T issue. When I questioned my low T number my doctor said, "220 is normal for someone your age..." I was 48 at the time and 220ng/dl was def below the lowest end of the range.
When my employer switched to a PPO, (UHC), my primary was totally different. He seemed excited for me that I qualified for HRT. I didn't know then what I know now but have learned much thanks to sites like this one. What a long strange trip it has been to finally get back to normal.

[Times Roman]

Will next week be the first time you have ever brought up the TRT subject to your doctor? Have you already run labs with them and you are showing low "T"?

yes. First time.
No. No labs. but I should be showing low T
I'm in my 4th week of test base, and will come off here in a couple of days... my body should shut down...

[Jadam]

I have Kaiser and haven't even been able to get a test done. I brought in some questionnaires and was told it's probably just my weight or I'm depressed. I went and had a test done on my own and it came back questionable. Now I'm just waiting until our open enrollment period at work so I can ditch Kaiser and try to find a real doc.

[Times Roman]

I have Kaiser and haven't even been able to get a test done. I brought in some questionnaires and was told it's probably just my weight or I'm depressed. I went and had a test done on my own and it came back questionable. Now I'm just waiting until our open enrollment period at work so I can ditch Kaiser and try to find a real doc.

Well, I'm definately NOT overweight... maybe by some stoopid BMI chart, but not BF%. My angle is NOT concern over low test levels. My story is I've got 0% libido, with some ED problems to boot. On top of that, my very sexual woman is extremely concerned and it is affecting our relationship greatly. In fact, my story continues, because I am in very good shape, she is thinking I'm no longer interested in her, and she suspects I may have a woman on the side. And unless I figure this thing out, my 23 year marriage is and will continue to be on the ropes. I'm 48 btw... so my story should seem legit. And cia alone won't fix this, as it predominantly my libido, with some sides of ED. Cia doesn't fix libido.

What do you think?

[pittbulldad]

Next week I'm going in to discuss TRT with my doctor. Problem is, it's Kaiser and I've heard these guys can be kind of tough when you bring up the subject. Anyone have any tips or advice?

I know a doc in NoCal.. but he is only good for Test/HCG .. he's shite for estrogen control.. ended up using him for test and online doc for arimidex ..

[Times Roman]

I know a doc in NoCal.. but he is only good for Test/HCG.. he's shite for estrogen control.. ended up using him for test and online doc for arimidex..

what city?

[Jadam]

Well, I'm definately NOT overweight... maybe by some stoopid BMI chart, but not BF%. My angle is NOT concern over low test levels. My story is I've got 0% libido, with some ED problems to boot. On top of that, my very sexual woman is extremely concerned and it is affecting our relationship greatly. In fact, my story continues, because I am in very good shape, she is thinking I'm no longer interested in her, and she suspects I may have a woman on the side. And unless I figure this thing out, my 23 year marriage is and will continue to be on the ropes. I'm 48 btw... so my story should seem legit. And cia alone won't fix this, as it predominantly my libido, with some sides of ED. Cia doesn't fix libido.

What do you think?

Sorry man, sounds like a really shitty situation. Hopefully you can get things working better as I'm sure most of us would love to have a woman that's still interested after 23 years.

I know a lot of people here post up this questionnaire to take to the dr. Maybe it will give you some ammo for the visit. http://www.seekwellness.com/andropause/adam_quiz.htm

[Times Roman]

Sorry man, sounds like a really shitty situation. Hopefully you can get things working better as I'm sure most of us would love to have a woman that's still interested after 23 years.

I know a lot of people here post up this questionnaire to take to the dr. Maybe it will give you some ammo for the visit. http://www.seekwellness.com/andropause/adam_quiz.htm

No mate! It's a cover story. I'm trying to get pharma grade test supply line going. Everything is fine for me. Well, not 100%, probably 80%. But I'm good. But if you still feel like giving, you can send your $5 to "help a brother out" to the PO box at the bottom of this thread. I'll make sure your support goes where it will be appreciated most.

[Jadam]

No mate! It's a cover story. I'm trying to get pharma grade test supply line going. Everything is fine for me. Well, not 100%, probably 80%. But I'm good. But if you still feel like giving, you can send your $5 to "help a brother out" to the PO box at the bottom of this thread. I'll make sure your support goes where it will be appreciated most.

Sorry dude, misunderstood you. Good luck with getting what you're after.

[Times Roman]

I went to my Kaiser Doc yesterday, laid my cover story on him.... no libido, big ED problems. He seemed receptive. He ordered up some bloodwork to check test levels. He brought up patches. I asked him why patches? He said it is a more even method than gels. Asked him about a weekly pin. He said that too provided inconsistant blood levels calling them "swings" and doing a seesaw with his hand. BUT he said I can also discuss with an endo and we can come up with our own plan. So I had the blood work this morning, and I will get my results on line here in a couple of days. I'll keep you posted.

[Times Roman]

Well, my doc only orded total test, which came out as follows:
Total Test: 217 ng/ml.

Kaiser says anything below 220 is low, which in fact, is definately low. So my 217 should get me into the program. I just emailed my doctor to see what's next.

[warchild]

my dc wanted to start me on hcg and gel and i asked if i could just do injections and i told him ill stay up on current bloodwork and his visits, he was all for it and later admitted for gel to be effective "one would have to bath themselves in it."

[Times Roman]

Well, at least my doc was thinking patch instead of gel. Little boost there when he said I can talk to an endo to determine best delivery method. Pushing real hard for weekly pin for about 200mg of test cyp... sound about right?

[warchild]

yep sounds great, ive been on 200mgs for the last 2 yrs. sometimes ill do 300mgs weekly.

[grumpee]

yep sounds great, ive been on 200mgs for the last 2 yrs. sometimes ill do 300mgs weekly.

Have you seen good gains running that dose ?

[Times Roman]

yep sounds great, ive been on 200mgs for the last 2 yrs. sometimes ill do 300mgs weekly.

the extra 100mgs... something YOU add on, or is your doctor writing the Rx for it? I've got about 8 grams left of some test base I've been holding off on to make sure my system goes into shut down mode for this test... I thought I 'd be lower than 217, but hopefully 217 will be good enough.

BTW.. I may be holding on to the test base for awhile until I can figure out or convince my endo to allow me to pin at home.

I know... base is daily and cyp is weekly. I just need to figure out wether to mix with the cyp or just do the base daily and the cyp weekly.

[warchild]

to be honest, yes i did notice a difference adding 100mgs weekly. Added more weight, felt stronger and recovered quicker. I also tho since doing that with the last year starting eating more and better also stopped drinking and focused more on my body. Currently 195lb 5'11 12%bf.

[warchild]

the extra 100mgs... something YOU add on, or is your doctor writing the Rx for it? I've got about 8 grams left of some test base I've been holding off on to make sure my system goes into shut down mode for this test... I thought I 'd be lower than 217, but hopefully 217 will be good enough.

BTW.. I may be holding on to the test base for awhile until I can figure out or convince my endo to allow me to pin at home.

I know... base is daily and cyp is weekly. I just need to figure out wether to mix with the cyp or just do the base daily and the cyp weekly.

it was something i added on , by law 300mgs is the maximum trt dose allowed. for some reason walgreens and my dc kept refilling my scripts and im currently sitting on 4 unopened watson test cyp bottles and about to get another script.

[Vettester]

Well, my doc only orded total test, which came out as follows:
Total Test: 217 ng/ml.

Kaiser says anything below 220 is low, which in fact, is definately low. So my 217 should get me into the program. I just emailed my doctor to see what's next.

Total test sounds about right. Never was able to get them to do Free Test, E2, etc.

Well, at least my doc was thinking patch instead of gel. Little boost there when he said I can talk to an endo to determine best delivery method. Pushing real hard for weekly pin for about 200mg of test cyp... sound about right?

With Kaiser the most they will usually do is 100mg/wk. Maybe your doc is the exception to the rule.

You can also add some HCG . That should compliment your test score and give you the needed testicular support that is needed (IMO) while on TRT.

[Times Roman]

Total test sounds about right. Never was able to get them to do Free Test, E2, etc.



With Kaiser the most they will usually do is 100mg/wk. Maybe your doc is the exception to the rule.

You can also add some HCG. That should compliment your test score and give you the needed testicular support that is needed (IMO) while on TRT.

OK... I'll ask about HCG as well

[sierrahiker]

I had a terrible endo at Fontana Kaiser. He was a complete jerk and kept me on Androgel , even when I crashed down to 114.

I am now getting weekly shots. Initially I was at 250 mg's a week which brought me up to 1500. WAY too high for me. Then 150 mgs a week, brought me to 1200... again WAY too high.

I am not interested in body building, I am only interested in having a healthy sex life and no mood swings. Anything over 1,000 T. for me means no libido and lots of anger.

I've been at 100 mgs. a week for a month from Kaiser and am fine. Sex almost every day and no rages. My T. level is at 800 which is perfect for someone my age, 48.

However, Kaiser won't let me self-inject, I have to go in every week.

[Times Roman]

I had a terrible endo at Fontana Kaiser. He was a complete jerk and kept me on Androgel , even when I crashed down to 114.

I am now getting weekly shots. Initially I was at 250 mg's a week which brought me up to 1500. WAY too high for me. Then 150 mgs a week, brought me to 1200... again WAY too high.

I am not interested in body building, I am only interested in having a healthy sex life and no mood swings. Anything over 1,000 T. for me means no libido and lots of anger.

I've been at 100 mgs. a week for a month from Kaiser and am fine. Sex almost every day and no rages. My T. level is at 800 which is perfect for someone my age, 48.

However, Kaiser won't let me self-inject, I have to go in every week.

I'm 48 as well. Have you had a chance to speak with your kaiser doc about hcg ?
Here soon, I'm going to try and get my GP to switch from EOW to EW. Glad you are already there!

[sierrahiker]

I haven't spoken to the Doc about HCG . I try to stay "out of sight, out of mind" with Kaiser.

[Vettester]

Kaiser won't prescribe it ... I know, I already tried there way back when. It isn't happening with Kaiser so put your energy in another direction.

[Times Roman]

Kaiser won't prescribe it ... I know, I already tried there way back when. It isn't happening with Kaiser so put your energy in another direction.

I'm going to make the effort anyway. Not sure why, but I seem to be luckier than i thought I would be with kaiser. I'll let you know what happens in a couple of weeks.

[Vettester]

I'm going to make the effort anyway. Not sure why, but I seem to be luckier than i thought I would be with kaiser. I'll let you know what happens in a couple of weeks.

Good luck with it. If per chance your endo does the right thing, tell him to share his discovery process with his idiot counterparts down in Fontana! I wish Kaiser was in tune to all of this, it would have made my life a lot easier.

[Vettester]

I haven't spoken to the Doc about HCG. I try to stay "out of sight, out of mind" with Kaiser.

I know the doctor you're talking about ... That guy will put you in shackles if your "T" score goes above 500! He's the guy that compared me to Manny Ramirez when I brought up HCG . Wish I was on the board at Kaiser, I'd fire his ass real fast!

[zaggahamma]

I know the doctor you're talking about ... That guy will put you in shackles if your "T" score goes above 500! He's the guy that compared me to Manny Ramirez when I brought up HCG. Wish I was on the board at Kaiser, I'd fire his ass real fast!

yeh...the extent of their knowledge of the med

[Times Roman]

I'm just not sure why testosterone is such a boogeyman with Kaiser? doesn't make any sense

[zaggahamma]

its not mainstream

[Times Roman]

maybe so.... And I know Kaiser likes to control costs which is understandable. But if that logic is correct, then why is my doc quick to prescribe other expensive meds, and all i have to do is ask? It could be due to the fact test/trt is long term and, although test is relatively inexpensive, in the longterm, can be expensive?

i think KP acts more like an insurance company, trying to manage THEIR risk? If the condition is NOT life threatening, then they are very reluctant to get involved? They are more interested in treating chronic conditions than they are in improving quality of life issues?

[zaggahamma]

yes some healthcare systems act like insurance Co's because they answer to them/practically ran by them and about the managing costs i'm sure thats one sided....if a patient wants to be on androgel they'd prolly be all for it

[Times Roman]

yes some healthcare systems act like insurance Co's because they answer to them/practically ran by them and about the managing costs i'm sure thats one sided....if a patient wants to be on androgel they'd prolly be all for it

do you mean they would be in favor of androgel because it is not an injection? I understand what you mean, but to me, that doesn't make any sense. the first thing that came out of my GP's mouth was the patch. Anyways, the point is moot for me at the moment, since I got an extension on my test. he said he won't guarantee this is "indefinate", but once you go past the point of no return (when exactly is that, anyways?) and your test production shuts down, I don't know how they could deny continuing TRT anyways?