Don't Qualify for TRT, Still Get the Benefits?

[Keep_It_Moving]

If someone didn't necessarily qualify for TRT due to their normal range of testosterone levels ; score of 600, but decided to go on it anyway due to low t - symptoms to remain in the optimal range (700-1200), would they still reap the benefits of being on TRT?

Thank you for those that respond....

[trikydik]

If your test level is normal but you have the symptoms, it is not test deficiency doing it to you. Talk to a specialist.... could be pituitary issue, or other medical issue...

[Moparman]

Could be sleep apnea. Or loud snoring waking u up.

What are ur symptoms??

[Keep_It_Moving]

Symptoms include:
anxiety/depression
low libido
lethargic
sometimes difficult to cum ( I gotta be honest )
increased bf in mid area
mental fog/ just feel out of it

I don't think its the snoring because my gf would say something...

[bass]

it could be Thyroid! level of total test doesn't man anything, you will need to do a complete male hormone panel to see what's causing these symptoms. if your test is 600 and free T is in the tank then that could cause the symptoms you listed. but its all speculations at t his point, need to see complete BW.

[powerlifterty16]

witha 600 tt i def wouldnt go fugging around with stuff man...to give youa perspective..im 23 and have a tt of 339 with free t at the bottom of the range and ive been putting off treatment since i was 18 despite feeling like trash....nothing about the trt lifestyle appeals to me lol.
in your case, you should get a brain/pituitary scan, and a full round up of thyroid tests as well as adrenal tests...also get a repeat testosterone ,estrogen,and free test lab to make sure you are truly not deficient.

[Keep_It_Moving]

When I had my Total test come back at 610 scale 250-1100, my Free T was at 109 scale 50-150. But that was back in January. I will have another test done. I've done the Female Hormone Panel through Labcorp. Can anyone recommend which one to choose and roughly how much it costs?
Thanks!

it could be Thyroid! level of total test doesn't man anything, you will need to do a complete male hormone panel to see what's causing these symptoms. if your test is 600 and free T is in the tank then that could cause the symptoms you listed. but its all speculations at t his point, need to see complete BW.

[Keep_It_Moving]

So you are putting off treatment because of what exactly?

witha 600 tt i def wouldnt go fugging around with stuff man...to give youa perspective..im 23 and have a tt of 339 with free t at the bottom of the range and ive been putting off treatment since i was 18 despite feeling like trash....nothing about the trt lifestyle appeals to me lol.
in your case, you should get a brain/pituitary scan, and a full round up of thyroid tests as well as adrenal tests...also get a repeat testosterone,estrogen,and free test lab to make sure you are truly not deficient.

[powerlifterty16]

im only 23...and im scared that i wont get dialed in, and ill fugg myself up. im going to do it though...im tired of having no drive....and not working

[64509chvl]

im only 23...and im scared that i wont get dialed in, and ill fugg myself up. im going to do it though...im tired of having no drive....and not working

Dude...your low t is talking again !

[bass]

Keep It Moving, check out Kelkel's thread regarding Finding a Physician, he lists what panels you need done prior to treatment and a follow up.

here is the link,
Finding a TRT Physician

[Keep_It_Moving]

Bass-
Thanks for the link, I will look into it immediately.

Keep It Moving, check out Kelkel's thread regarding Finding a Physician, he lists what panels you need done prior to treatment and a follow up.

here is the link,
Finding a TRT Physician

[Times Roman]

If someone didn't necessarily qualify for TRT due to their normal range of testosterone levels ; score of 600, but decided to go on it anyway due to low t - symptoms to remain in the optimal range (700-1200), would they still reap the benefits of being on TRT?

Thank you for those that respond....

you idget!

I'm on TRT and my T levels are in the low 700's.

I'm thinking you know nothing about the philosophy behind TRT, so maybe if you do some reading and educate yourself.....?

[Keep_It_Moving]

I'm learning about TRT, I guess I just want the benefits and I'd like to relieve myself of the symptoms.

you idget!

I'm on TRT and my T levels are in the low 700's.

I'm thinking you know nothing about the philosophy behind TRT, so maybe if you do some reading and educate yourself.....?

[Times Roman]

I'm learning about TRT, I guess I just want the benefits and I'd like to relieve myself of the symptoms.

You get the rest of your blood panels taken? How are your estradiol levels? elevated (or too low) levels can cause some issues that mimic low T levels

[Keep_It_Moving]

I have and it is within normal range. So that doesn't seem to be the issue.

You get the rest of your blood panels taken? How are your estradiol levels? elevated (or too low) levels can cause some issues that mimic low T levels

[powerlifterty16]

why do people complain when t is in the normal range...but not when anything else is in the normal range.

[Vettester]

As stated already, you need the gamut of BW labs. Bass read my mind, as I was going to also put some emphasis on the thyroid. Not just TSH either, look into a comprehensive panel including FT4, FT3, RT3, and the antibodies (TPO, TSI), which will help a physician determine if Hashimotos or Graves is a factor.

You mentioned a few of your symptoms. I think it would be good to make sure you include cortisol (saliva), and I really would like to see your prolactin level in reference to your issue with ejaculation. Have you done any AAS cycles, specifically any Nor19's such as Deca or Tren ? Make sure your E2 assay is the "sensitive" panel, which is the medical standard for males.

In the meantime, please share with us your stats, and any background information that might be pertinent to this discussion (medications, noted pathologies, family history, lifestyle conditions, etc.). Not that we need to get overly personal, but the more we know about you will help your cause with getting more suggestions and options from our members.

[kelkel]

Exactly that ^^^^

[Keep_It_Moving]

Okay so I'll give this a go, 100% holding nothing back....

28, m, 185-190lbs, 14%bf 5'9", training on and off for 8 years, been serious for the past 1.5yrs.
Medications: Klonopin .5mg 1-2x day, Wellbutrin XL 150mg 1x day but stopped taking this a month ago.

Had my Test levels check in January to see if I was low, came back; Total 619 (range 200-1100), Free 109 (range 50-150)
Then decided to try a cycle, this consisted of:
Test C 210mg 2x week
Adex .5mg 3x week
HCG 500ui 2x week

I aborted the cycle at 5 weeks in due to elevated estrogen levels (blood work said 67, range 10-50), puffy nipples, and sensitivity in my nipple area. I did a complete HPTA normalization with clomid and nolva which ended on 5/12/13. I'm still taking Tamoxifen daily to try and ward off the gyno symptoms.

Had blood work done recently and it came back around 248 then had it checked a week later and it was 748. I assume this is due to the Test leaving my system and then my body trying to produce its own again.

As stated already, you need the gamut of BW labs. Bass read my mind, as I was going to also put some emphasis on the thyroid. Not just TSH either, look into a comprehensive panel including FT4, FT3, RT3, and the antibodies (TPO, TSI), which will help a physician determine if Hashimotos or Graves is a factor.

You mentioned a few of your symptoms. I think it would be good to make sure you include cortisol (saliva), and I really would like to see your prolactin level in reference to your issue with ejaculation. Have you done any AAS cycles, specifically any Nor19's such as Deca or Tren ? Make sure your E2 assay is the "sensitive" panel, which is the medical standard for males.

In the meantime, please share with us your stats, and any background information that might be pertinent to this discussion (medications, noted pathologies, family history, lifestyle conditions, etc.). Not that we need to get overly personal, but the more we know about you will help your cause with getting more suggestions and options from our members.

[Vettester]

Okay so I'll give this a go, 100% holding nothing back....

28, m, 185-190lbs, 14%bf 5'9", training on and off for 8 years, been serious for the past 1.5yrs.
Medications: Klonopin .5mg 1-2x day, Wellbutrin XL 150mg 1x day but stopped taking this a month ago.

Had my Test levels check in January to see if I was low, came back; Total 619 (range 200-1100), Free 109 (range 50-150)
Then decided to try a cycle, this consisted of:
Test C 210mg 2x week
Adex .5mg 3x week
HCG 500ui 2x week

I aborted the cycle at 5 weeks in due to elevated estrogen levels (blood work said 67, range 10-50), puffy nipples, and sensitivity in my nipple area. I did a complete HPTA normalization with clomid and nolva which ended on 5/12/13. I'm still taking Tamoxifen daily to try and ward off the gyno symptoms.

Had blood work done recently and it came back around 248 then had it checked a week later and it was 748. I assume this is due to the Test leaving my system and then my body trying to produce its own again.

OK, thanks for sharing, this is helpful.

Based on the reference range you provided with the E2 lab, it doesn't appear to be the sensitive. Definitely order the sensitive assay on future labs. On your free testosterone lab, can you tell me what unit of measurement was used? Picograms (pg/ml) is normally the UM that I see. Or, I can find what I'm looking for with your SHBG score if you have it (at the time of your 610 total serum score).

You did a PCT with Clomid/Nolva; both SERMS. You state that you are taking Tamox for the nipple/gyno subject. Tamox is Nolva, so you're in essence still in PCT mode. How much and how often are you taking it? When you took your last round(s) of labs for the testosterone serum, did you by chance have your LH and FSH included? The Nolva/Tamox is mostly likely increasing LH, which is why you have seen an increase in natural test production. The million dollar question is will your HPTA sustain normal gonadotropin production after you stop administering Nolva? If your E2 is still elevated, than that needs to be dealt with to get it in normal range. The Tamox is just blocking the receptor sites, which is giving you relief, but it's not going to do anything to control your actual estrogen serum level. Again, additional labs will talk volumes.

Your anti-D and anxiety meds are probably playing into this as well, and could very well be part of the libido function problem. I'll share something with you that I don't speak about much ... I was on Anti-D's about 10 years ago. I understand where you're coming from with them. However, IMO, I think they're nothing more than a patch to cover up the real issues with an individual, and in a lot of cases that's hormonal related. Now, I know you can just cold turkey those things, but I really want you to consider looking at a plan that might allow you to taper down/off of them, and to attack the true components of where you need to restore balance. The obstacle is more in finding a good physician that you can fall back on and partner up with to help you. Most GP's, mine included, are real quick to go the easy route. My situation is fortunate, where I've had the ability to go outside my HCP system to get specialized hormonal care. My GP has also got better and more open minded over the last 5 years or so, which has also been a benefit. I don't know your particular situation, but I do stress that you stay proactive to make sure your HCP is doing what's needed to 'fix' your problems, not 'patch' them.

[Keep_It_Moving]

The units used for my score at 619 total; 250-1100 ng/dL and 106.9 free; 35-155.0 pg/mL, estrogen wasn't taken at this time.

Yes, I technically am still in PCT mode because of the nolva. I'm taking 40-60mg/day. The last time my levels were checked was on 4/19 came back T levels at 248 (nothing else came back cuz the lab ****ed up) and on 4/27 T levels at 746, e2 at 51, LH at 16.8, FSH at 7.8

I had another bloodwork done this week so I'm waiting to get the results. I should have something by next week.
I hope my body will return to normal but I realize that it is a gamble when using AAS at the dosage I was.

As for the anti-D, I stopped that and feel so much better, but still continue on my klonopin.

OK, thanks for sharing, this is helpful.

Based on the reference range you provided with the E2 lab, it doesn't appear to be the sensitive. Definitely order the sensitive assay on future labs. On your free testosterone lab, can you tell me what unit of measurement was used? Picograms (pg/ml) is normally the UM that I see. Or, I can find what I'm looking for with your SHBG score if you have it (at the time of your 610 total serum score).

You did a PCT with Clomid/Nolva; both SERMS. You state that you are taking Tamox for the nipple/gyno subject. Tamox is Nolva, so you're in essence still in PCT mode. How much and how often are you taking it? When you took your last round(s) of labs for the testosterone serum, did you by chance have your LH and FSH included? The Nolva/Tamox is mostly likely increasing LH, which is why you have seen an increase in natural test production. The million dollar question is will your HPTA sustain normal gonadotropin production after you stop administering Nolva? If your E2 is still elevated, than that needs to be dealt with to get it in normal range. The Tamox is just blocking the receptor sites, which is giving you relief, but it's not going to do anything to control your actual estrogen serum level. Again, additional labs will talk volumes.

Your anti-D and anxiety meds are probably playing into this as well, and could very well be part of the libido function problem. I'll share something with you that I don't speak about much ... I was on Anti-D's about 10 years ago. I understand where you're coming from with them. However, IMO, I think they're nothing more than a patch to cover up the real issues with an individual, and in a lot of cases that's hormonal related. Now, I know you can just cold turkey those things, but I really want you to consider looking at a plan that might allow you to taper down/off of them, and to attack the true components of where you need to restore balance. The obstacle is more in finding a good physician that you can fall back on and partner up with to help you. Most GP's, mine included, are real quick to go the easy route. My situation is fortunate, where I've had the ability to go outside my HCP system to get specialized hormonal care. My GP has also got better and more open minded over the last 5 years or so, which has also been a benefit. I don't know your particular situation, but I do stress that you stay proactive to make sure your HCP is doing what's needed to 'fix' your problems, not 'patch' them.