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  1. #1
    highnmighty is offline Associate Member
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    Ok 4th week into it and....

    So biggest difference I noticed going into the 3rd week I went from a hard physique feeling strong to a soft one. My stomach got loose and around my chest area it is no where near as defined prior to. I now have a smooth round look, completely different to the prior week. It's driving my nuts to say the least. I am dosing a 100mg's / week and assume its due to increase in estro. Also interesting thing is my hair texture has changed significantly. I have a strong feeling this is due too high estro as well. I figured I would start running .5mg of Adex 2x's / week. Any suggestions from the experts here???

    BTW- I am still experiencing morning wood but really dont give a shit about this if I continue looking the way I do. I need to tighten back up!

  2. #2
    Vettester is offline Banned
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    What did your BW results look like before you started your protocol? Can you also share your stats?

    Thanks

  3. #3
    highnmighty is offline Associate Member
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    Well I got my blood work done back in March and decided to recently go on Test. So BW then was :

    TT: 446
    FT: 12.4 range: 8.7 - 25.1
    Estradiol: 25.3
    Prolactin: 11
    Progesterone: .5
    SHBG: 29.4

    I am 37yrs old 5' 10" 198lbs. I eat healthy and work out regularly. However, I have been working out and not making any type of progress. Also I should share I take 50mg of Zoloft. Constantly struggling with libido issues and is effecting my relationship and my life. Also not feeling good about myself confident wise. This is why I decided to go on Test Cyp.

  4. #4
    Alloy's Avatar
    Alloy is offline Junior Member
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    I'm willing to bet your E2 is out of range. I know the feeling, my E2 is in the mid 50s and my TT is close to your's. Get some BW done to get a better idea. Most ppl who have been down this road before will tell you the same info, Test works great but if you don't get that E2 in check from the word go, you're going to run into all sorts of issues from high bp, water retention, anxiety, depression, possible gyno, etc since test will convert into E2.

    An AI should be everyone's first script to fill before anything else.

  5. #5
    highnmighty is offline Associate Member
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    Yep and I know it's been talked about so much on the boards about AI's. I just want that same feeling back that I had the first 2 weeks on the T! So true about E2, I mean I can't believe the difference overnight.

    It's amazing I know a lot of guys who take Test at much higher levels for building muscle and they dont even know about AI's. They look very bloated but not loose like I feel.

  6. #6
    Vettester is offline Banned
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    Your E2 wasn't bad when you did your initial tests, but as Alloy indicated, it very well could be out of range now and causing your sides. Your 1st set of labs should be at the 6th week, so you might start getting the ball rolling with that stuff now. I suggest you get a complete set of hormone labs, along with the CBC's, lipids, etc.

    There's been a few members lately dealing with the Anti-D's. I personally don't think a person will get the most out of their HRT program when Anti-D's are also being administered. Is it possible that your issues and libido will improve if you were to optimize your hormones and taper out the Zoloft? Of course anything of this nature should be fully reviewed with your doctor, but maybe there's a chance you can get things back to the way they used to be. I was on Anti-D's several years ago and I remember they just killed my sex drive. What's your thoughts on this?

  7. #7
    highnmighty is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by vetteman08 View Post
    Your E2 wasn't bad when you did your initial tests, but as Alloy indicated, it very well could be out of range now and causing your sides. Your 1st set of labs should be at the 6th week, so you might start getting the ball rolling with that stuff now. I suggest you get a complete set of hormone labs, along with the CBC's, lipids, etc.

    There's been a few members lately dealing with the Anti-D's. I personally don't think a person will get the most out of their HRT program when Anti-D's are also being administered. Is it possible that your issues and libido will improve if you were to optimize your hormones and taper out the Zoloft? Of course anything of this nature should be fully reviewed with your doctor, but maybe there's a chance you can get things back to the way they used to be. I was on Anti-D's several years ago and I remember they just killed my sex drive. What's your thoughts on this?
    I understand what your suggesting however, I am bi polar and I can not take the chance of being off an Anti D. I am not taking a large dose of zoloft so I am not sure how much this comes into play. With a small dosage of an anti-d and some Test I think this will help w/ mental health issues overall.

  8. #8
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    It's still pretty early in your TRT program however, have you noticed *any* improvements in your overall moods? The question may be moot since you still need to get your E2 in line however, once that's accomplished, I'd be interested to hear if your moods, and more importantly your swings, show any improvement. I've read quite a few reports regarding the overall improvement and stability of mood once a balanced TRT/HRT program is achieved. In many cases patients who were previously taking some form of anti-depressant often found that TRT/HRT eliminated the need. Granted, that may not be the case with bipolar disorder however, it may help to lessen the severity. Please keep us informed.

  9. #9
    highnmighty is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by forrest_and_trees View Post
    It's still pretty early in your TRT program however, have you noticed *any* improvements in your overall moods? The question may be moot since you still need to get your E2 in line however, once that's accomplished, I'd be interested to hear if your moods, and more importantly your swings, show any improvement. I've read quite a few reports regarding the overall improvement and stability of mood once a balanced TRT/HRT program is achieved. In many cases patients who were previously taking some form of anti-depressant often found that TRT/HRT eliminated the need. Granted, that may not be the case with bipolar disorder however, it may help to lessen the severity. Please keep us informed.
    Yes the first two weeks I felt great, then my mood was not great at all and body composition completely changed. So I will assume that it must be E2 is WAY above range. In fact, speaking of mood the last few days I have been extremely irritated and get aggravated over the smallest things. I have been very mean to my girlfriend and every little thing she does annoys the shit out of me. Overall I went from feeling confident and good about myself and the way I looked to the opposite of that.

    As far as TRT eliminating the need for AD's, not sure in my case that will happen, however, I believe what it will allow me to do is keep AD dosages at a minimum which is a good thing. Many side effects happen w/ AD's when you start increasing dosages~

  10. #10
    Jupiter2's Avatar
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    Just a guess on my part as I am no expert at either TRT or Bi-Polar Disorder but it does sound to me as though elevated estrogen might be your issue (Water gain is a by product of increased estrogen)

    You might also want to discuss with your doctor different anti-D's. Wellbutrin is effective and is known to affect libido positively but I don't know if would be as helpful as Zoloft with regard to Bi-Polar Disorder.

    Also, even though Test Cyp has a pretty long half life you will still experience Test levels that are higher a couple of days following your injection and lower just prior to your next scheduled dose. It makes sense to me that your disorder might make you more susceptible to mood swings as a result of the peaks and valleys associated with the therapy. If that is the case it might be helpful to flatten out those high's and low's a bit by injecting 50 mg's 2x per week or every 3 or 4 days instead of the 100mg's once every 7 days as you are doing now.

  11. #11
    highnmighty is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jupiter2 View Post
    Just a guess on my part as I am no expert at either TRT or Bi-Polar Disorder but it does sound to me as though elevated estrogen might be your issue (Water gain is a by product of increased estrogen)

    You might also want to discuss with your doctor different anti-D's. Wellbutrin is effective and is known to affect libido positively but I don't know if would be as helpful as Zoloft with regard to Bi-Polar Disorder.

    Also, even though Test Cyp has a pretty long half life you will still experience Test levels that are higher a couple of days following your injection and lower just prior to your next scheduled dose. It makes sense to me that your disorder might make you more susceptible to mood swings as a result of the peaks and valleys associated with the therapy. If that is the case it might be helpful to flatten out those high's and low's a bit by injecting 50 mg's 2x per week or every 3 or 4 days instead of the 100mg's once every 7 days as you are doing now.
    I have tried every AD there is and in regards to Wellbutrin its not suitable for me. You do make a good point about the peak & troughs of Test. I was thinking of running 80 - 100mgs E5D instead of 7. I was actually asking a couple of people on this forum who are doing this exact regimen and they say it works great for them. I most likely will start this in a couple of weeks. My question would be do I run 80mgs E5D or 100mg? Also with regards to E2 how much adex should one run at these dosages?

  12. #12
    Jupiter2's Avatar
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    In either case you will be exceeding what I'm presuming your doctor has recommended or prescribed. I would consult with him before upping your dosage since their are other medical issues involved.

  13. #13
    highnmighty is offline Associate Member
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    Question, can ONE dose of .5mg of adex drive estro into the ground or would it take many over time?

  14. #14
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    Forgot to answer the question about the Adex. Most most would say to start with the lowest dose possible and go from there. .25mg is what I would seek. My doctor prescribed 1mg twice per week initially and after doing some research and listening to the fine folk here I managed to get that cut in half.

    Adex is very effective. You definitely don't want to over do it and drop your estrogen to basement level. You'll feel like crap in spite of the testosterone coursing through your body if you don't have enough. Get some bloodwork done to check your current estrogen level and then talk to the doctor about the Adex.

    And no, imo 1 dose of .5mg Adex would not drive your estrogen into the ground provided it was in the normal range or above.
    Last edited by Jupiter2; 09-07-2010 at 06:54 PM.

  15. #15
    Vettester is offline Banned
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    ^^ Good advise from Jupiter ^^ BW is needed before you go any further.

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