Been on TRT for 4 months... no improvement, if anything conditions are worse.

[lowtestsucks]

I'm 24, got diagnosed with low test about 5 months ago. I went in because I was feeling tired, mentally sluggish, didn't feel like working out, pretty low sex drive, etc. I came in at like 400 Total when the low is ~425 or something. I have posted blood work before, I can repost if necessary though.

Anyway I don't think the test is doing anything! Mentally I feel the same, and my libido has gotten worse and is pretty much nonexistent now. I'm injecting 100mg test-C per week and my total is very upper range and sometimes out of range. Estradiol is in the middle of the range.

Physically the test definitely shows though. Body fat is like 5% now.

What is going on? Should I try HCG instead of test as maybe the natural pathway has been shut down? Should I get a catscan and see if I have a pituitary tumor or something? Having no libido is killing me... Something is very very wrong.

EDIT: If anything I like the way I felt before better, but I definitely still want a boost from something, especially to help with the libido. I'm thinking about trying to come off the Test and switch to HCG only. Is that feasible? If I could get test levels to like 600/800 I'm cool with that as long as my sex drive is normal or above normal. The higher the better there. Although I'm not sure if that will help as my LH was normal.

[pittbulldad]

post your blood work

[flatscat]

50mg's per week get you to the upper and over range for total? We'll wait for your b/w, but if you are at the top of the range due to the test you are taking, I doubt HCG will fix your libido problem. Gotta be something else.

[lowtestsucks]

Sorry I meant .5 ml, so 100 mg per week.

MARCH 2010 #1

Testosterone , Serum 421 ng/dL 280-800 01
Free Testosterone(Direct) 9.1 LOW pg/mL 9.3-26.5 02
Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy 46.9 ng/mL 32.0-100.0 01
Recent studies consider the lower limit of 32.0 ng/mL to be a
threshold for optimal health.
Hollis BW. J Nutr. 2005 Feb;135(2):317-22.
Estradiol 16.7 pg/mL 7.6-42.6 01

After this test I saw that my testosterone was pretty low, so I did some follow up work.

MARCH 2010 #2

Glucose, Serum 84 mg/dL 65-99 01
Uric Acid, Serum 3.5 mg/dL 2.4-8.2 01
BUN 10 mg/dL 5-26 01
Creatinine, Serum 0.82 mg/dL 0.76-1.27 01
eGFR >59 mL/min/1.73 >59 01
eGFR AfricanAmerican >59 mL/min/1.73 >59 01
Note: Persistent reduction for 3 months or more in an eGFR
<60 mL/min/1.73 m2 defines CKD. Patients with eGFR values
>/=60 mL/min/1.73 m2 may also have CKD if evidence of persistent
proteinuria is present. Additional information may be found at
www.kdoqi.org.
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 12 8-27 01
Sodium, Serum 142 mmol/L 135-145 01
Potassium, Serum 4.7 mmol/L 3.5-5.2 01
Chloride, Serum 106 mmol/L 97-108 01
Carbon Dioxide, Total 26 mmol/L 20-32 01
Calcium, Serum 9.2 mg/dL 8.7-10.2 01
Phosphorus, Serum 4.3 mg/dL 2.5-4.5 01
Protein, Total, Serum 6.7 g/dL 6.0-8.5 01
Albumin, Serum 4.5 g/dL 3.5-5.5 01
Globulin, Total 2.2 g/dL 1.5-4.5 01
A/G Ratio 2.0 1.1-2.5 01
Bilirubin, Total 0.3 mg/dL 0.1-1.2 01
**Effective April 26, 2010, Bilirubin, Total,**
reference interval will be changing to: mg/dL
Newborns, term and near term:
24 hours old: 0.0 - 8.0
48 hours old: 0.0 - 13.2
72 hours old: 0.0 - 15.6
96 hours to 1 month old: 0.0 - 16.6
Children 1 month and older and
Adults: 0.0 - 1.2
.
*Panic value will be changed such that results*
>17.0 mg/dL will be called as panics.
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 90 IU/L 25-150 01
LDH 128 IU/L 100-250 01
AST (SGOT) 24 IU/L 0-40 01

ALT (SGPT) 23 IU/L 0-55 01
GGT 11 IU/L 0-65 01
Iron, Serum 49 ug/dL 40-155 01
Cholesterol, Total 114 mg/dL 100-199 01
Triglycerides 49 mg/dL 0-149 01
HDL Cholesterol 44 mg/dL >39 01
According to ATP-III Guidelines, HDL-C >59 mg/dL is considered a
negative risk factor for CHD.
LDL Cholesterol Calc 60 mg/dL 0-99 01
T. Chol/HDL Ratio 2.6 ratio units 0.0-5.0 01
TSH 3.320 uIU/mL 0.450-4.500 01
Thyroxine (T4) 8.3 ug/dL 4.5-12.0 01
T3 Uptake 35 % 24-39 01
Free Thyroxine Index 2.9 1.2-4.9 01
WBC 6.7 x10E3/uL 4.0-10.5 01
RBC 4.77 x10E6/uL 4.10-5.60 01
Hemoglobin 13.6 g/dL 12.5-17.0 01
Hematocrit 39.9 % 36.0-50.0 01
MCV 84 fL 80-98 01
MCH 28.5 pg 27.0-34.0 01
MCHC 34.1 g/dL 32.0-36.0 01
RDW 13.6 % 11.7-15.0 01
Platelets 192 x10E3/uL 140-415 01
Neutrophils 51 % 40-74 01
Lymphs 33 % 14-46 01
Monocytes 9 % 4-13 01
Eos 7 % 0-7 01
Basos 0 % 0-3 01
Immature Cells 01
Neutrophils (Absolute) 3.4 x10E3/uL 1.8-7.8 01
Lymphs (Absolute) 2.2 x10E3/uL 0.7-4.5 01
Monocytes(Absolute) 0.6 x10E3/uL 0.1-1.0 01
Eos (Absolute) 0.5 HIGH x10E3/uL 0.0-0.4 01
Baso (Absolute) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0-0.2 01
Immature Granulocytes 01
Immature Grans (Abs) 01
NRBC 01
Hematology Comments: 01
LH 5.4 mIU/mL 1.7-8.6 01

Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 0.7 ng/mL 0.0-4.0 01
Roche ECLIA methodology.
.
According to the American Urological Association, Serum PSA should
decrease and remain at undetectable levels after radical
prostatectomy. The AUA defines biochemical recurrence as an initial
PSA value 0.2 ng/mL or greater followed by a subsequent confirmatory
PSA value 0.2 ng/mL or greater.
Values obtained with different assay methods or kits cannot be used
interchangeably. Results cannot be interpreted as absolute evidence
of the presence or absence of malignant disease.
Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) 923 HIGH ng/dL 208-771 02
Age Male Female
20 - 29 yrs. 208 - 771 162 - 995
30 - 39 yrs. 146 - 850 112 - 722
40 - 49 yrs. 107 - 745 110 - 554
50 - 59 yrs. 131 - 538 69 - 414
60 - 69 yrs. 82 - 338 60 - 370
> 70 yrs. 69 - 252 63 - 260
**Effective May 24, 2010 Dehydroepiandrosterone(DHEA)**
reference interval will be changing to:
1 - 5 years 0 - 67
6 - 7 years 0 - 110
8 - 10 years 0 - 185
11 - 12 years 0 - 201
13 - 14 years 0 - 318
15 - 16 years 39 - 481
17 - 19 years 40 - 491
>19 years 31 - 701


So after that I went in and the endocrinologist got SBHC and Bioavailable testosterone tested. SBHC came back fine, Bioavailable was low. This is when I went on the test-C at 100mg per week.
I wasn't feeling much so I upped it myself to 150mg a week in June. I still wasn't feeling better, and my sex drive seemed to be decreasing. I did notice that my body was getting pretty lean.

JUNE 2010

Testosterone, Serum 1300 HIGH ng/dL 280-800 01

After this test I was a little freaked out because it was so high, so I switched the 75mg a week for one week, then back up to 100mg a week. The whole time I was at 1300 I wasn't feeling too much better. I waited a few weeks at 100mg and went back in for more tests.

JULY 2010

Testosterone, Serum 866 HIGH ng/dL 280-800 01
Free Testosterone(Direct) 22.6 pg/mL 9.3-26.5 02
Estradiol 25.4 pg/mL 7.6-42.6 01
Roche ECLIA methodology
Please note SPRCS 01
The date and/or time of collection was not indicated on the
requisition as required by state and federal law. The date of
receipt of the specimen was used as the collection date if not
supplied.

From my perspective those numbers are pretty awesome. The shitty part is that I don't feel any better! I had such high expectations coming into TRT, thinking that I had finally found out a way to make myself feel well. Now I am lost and confused as it doesn't work for me. You guys have to help me out...

[zaggahamma]

Sorry I meant .5 ml, so 100 mg per week.

MARCH 2010 #1

Testosterone , Serum 421 ng/dL 280-800 01
Free Testosterone(Direct) 9.1 LOW pg/mL 9.3-26.5 02
Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy 46.9 ng/mL 32.0-100.0 01
Recent studies consider the lower limit of 32.0 ng/mL to be a
threshold for optimal health.
Hollis BW. J Nutr. 2005 Feb;135(2):317-22.
Estradiol 16.7 pg/mL 7.6-42.6 01

After this test I saw that my testosterone was pretty low, so I did some follow up work.

MARCH 2010 #2

Glucose, Serum 84 mg/dL 65-99 01
Uric Acid, Serum 3.5 mg/dL 2.4-8.2 01
BUN 10 mg/dL 5-26 01
Creatinine, Serum 0.82 mg/dL 0.76-1.27 01
eGFR >59 mL/min/1.73 >59 01
eGFR AfricanAmerican >59 mL/min/1.73 >59 01
Note: Persistent reduction for 3 months or more in an eGFR
<60 mL/min/1.73 m2 defines CKD. Patients with eGFR values
>/=60 mL/min/1.73 m2 may also have CKD if evidence of persistent
proteinuria is present. Additional information may be found at
www.kdoqi.org.
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 12 8-27 01
Sodium, Serum 142 mmol/L 135-145 01
Potassium, Serum 4.7 mmol/L 3.5-5.2 01
Chloride, Serum 106 mmol/L 97-108 01
Carbon Dioxide, Total 26 mmol/L 20-32 01
Calcium, Serum 9.2 mg/dL 8.7-10.2 01
Phosphorus, Serum 4.3 mg/dL 2.5-4.5 01
Protein, Total, Serum 6.7 g/dL 6.0-8.5 01
Albumin, Serum 4.5 g/dL 3.5-5.5 01
Globulin, Total 2.2 g/dL 1.5-4.5 01
A/G Ratio 2.0 1.1-2.5 01
Bilirubin, Total 0.3 mg/dL 0.1-1.2 01
**Effective April 26, 2010, Bilirubin, Total,**
reference interval will be changing to: mg/dL
Newborns, term and near term:
24 hours old: 0.0 - 8.0
48 hours old: 0.0 - 13.2
72 hours old: 0.0 - 15.6
96 hours to 1 month old: 0.0 - 16.6
Children 1 month and older and
Adults: 0.0 - 1.2
.
*Panic value will be changed such that results*
>17.0 mg/dL will be called as panics.
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 90 IU/L 25-150 01
LDH 128 IU/L 100-250 01
AST (SGOT) 24 IU/L 0-40 01

ALT (SGPT) 23 IU/L 0-55 01
GGT 11 IU/L 0-65 01
Iron, Serum 49 ug/dL 40-155 01
Cholesterol, Total 114 mg/dL 100-199 01
Triglycerides 49 mg/dL 0-149 01
HDL Cholesterol 44 mg/dL >39 01
According to ATP-III Guidelines, HDL-C >59 mg/dL is considered a
negative risk factor for CHD.
LDL Cholesterol Calc 60 mg/dL 0-99 01
T. Chol/HDL Ratio 2.6 ratio units 0.0-5.0 01
TSH 3.320 uIU/mL 0.450-4.500 01
Thyroxine (T4) 8.3 ug/dL 4.5-12.0 01
T3 Uptake 35 % 24-39 01
Free Thyroxine Index 2.9 1.2-4.9 01
WBC 6.7 x10E3/uL 4.0-10.5 01
RBC 4.77 x10E6/uL 4.10-5.60 01
Hemoglobin 13.6 g/dL 12.5-17.0 01
Hematocrit 39.9 % 36.0-50.0 01
MCV 84 fL 80-98 01
MCH 28.5 pg 27.0-34.0 01
MCHC 34.1 g/dL 32.0-36.0 01
RDW 13.6 % 11.7-15.0 01
Platelets 192 x10E3/uL 140-415 01
Neutrophils 51 % 40-74 01
Lymphs 33 % 14-46 01
Monocytes 9 % 4-13 01
Eos 7 % 0-7 01
Basos 0 % 0-3 01
Immature Cells 01
Neutrophils (Absolute) 3.4 x10E3/uL 1.8-7.8 01
Lymphs (Absolute) 2.2 x10E3/uL 0.7-4.5 01
Monocytes(Absolute) 0.6 x10E3/uL 0.1-1.0 01
Eos (Absolute) 0.5 HIGH x10E3/uL 0.0-0.4 01
Baso (Absolute) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0-0.2 01
Immature Granulocytes 01
Immature Grans (Abs) 01
NRBC 01
Hematology Comments: 01
LH 5.4 mIU/mL 1.7-8.6 01

Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 0.7 ng/mL 0.0-4.0 01
Roche ECLIA methodology.
.
According to the American Urological Association, Serum PSA should
decrease and remain at undetectable levels after radical
prostatectomy. The AUA defines biochemical recurrence as an initial
PSA value 0.2 ng/mL or greater followed by a subsequent confirmatory
PSA value 0.2 ng/mL or greater.
Values obtained with different assay methods or kits cannot be used
interchangeably. Results cannot be interpreted as absolute evidence
of the presence or absence of malignant disease.
Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) 923 HIGH ng/dL 208-771 02
Age Male Female
20 - 29 yrs. 208 - 771 162 - 995
30 - 39 yrs. 146 - 850 112 - 722
40 - 49 yrs. 107 - 745 110 - 554
50 - 59 yrs. 131 - 538 69 - 414
60 - 69 yrs. 82 - 338 60 - 370
> 70 yrs. 69 - 252 63 - 260
**Effective May 24, 2010 Dehydroepiandrosterone(DHEA)**
reference interval will be changing to:
1 - 5 years 0 - 67
6 - 7 years 0 - 110
8 - 10 years 0 - 185
11 - 12 years 0 - 201
13 - 14 years 0 - 318
15 - 16 years 39 - 481
17 - 19 years 40 - 491
>19 years 31 - 701


So after that I went in and the endocrinologist got SBHC and Bioavailable testosterone tested. SBHC came back fine, Bioavailable was low. This is when I went on the test-C at 100mg per week.
I wasn't feeling much so I upped it myself to 150mg a week in June. I still wasn't feeling better, and my sex drive seemed to be decreasing. I did notice that my body was getting pretty lean.

JUNE 2010

Testosterone, Serum 1300 HIGH ng/dL 280-800 01

After this test I was a little freaked out because it was so high, so I switched the 75mg a week for one week, then back up to 100mg a week. The whole time I was at 1300 I wasn't feeling too much better. I waited a few weeks at 100mg and went back in for more tests.

JULY 2010

Testosterone, Serum 866 HIGH ng/dL 280-800 01
Free Testosterone(Direct) 22.6 pg/mL 9.3-26.5 02
Estradiol 25.4 pg/mL 7.6-42.6 01
Roche ECLIA methodology
Please note SPRCS 01
The date and/or time of collection was not indicated on the
requisition as required by state and federal law. The date of
receipt of the specimen was used as the collection date if not
supplied.

From my perspective those numbers are pretty awesome. The shitty part is that I don't feel any better! I had such high expectations coming into TRT, thinking that I had finally found out a way to make myself feel well. Now I am lost and confused as it doesn't work for me. You guys have to help me out...

can you please post a few more paragraphs i was just gettin into it

[flatscat]

were you taking DHEA supp's? What did the doc say about it? Your numbers do look good. One possibility is that your initial problem and symptoms were not related to to you low free t number and lower than they should be total. Just a thought.

[lowtestsucks]

were you taking DHEA supp's? What did the doc say about it? Your numbers do look good. One possibility is that your initial problem and symptoms were not related to to you low free t number and lower than they should be total. Just a thought.

No I wasn't taking DHEA supplements. That is just how it was. I asked my endo about it and he said it wasn't anything. I am not so sure.

EDIT: Like I said my body definitely is responding to the test so I know that something is working. Mentally I don't feel any different, and maybe even a little bit worse. I'm starting to wonder if I have a brain tumor or something.

[lowtestsucks]

can you please post a few more paragraphs i was just gettin into it

Are you serious? That is all the B/W I have available.

[zaggahamma]

Are you serious? That is all the B/W I have available.

no i apologize...flats likes to read more than i do

[frawnz]

What's your height and weight? You say you're at 5% bodyfat, so I'm wondering if you're super skinny/starved and your energy and sex drive isssues are more malnurishment as opposed to T levels.

[Times Roman]

What's your height and weight? You say you're at 5% bodyfat, so I'm wondering if you're super skinny/starved and your energy and sex drive isssues are more malnurishment as opposed to T levels.

I was thinking the same thing on the 5% bf. Very few of us are that low, even with years of really hard work (certainly not me).

It almost sounds like you have other issues going on besides test. could even be some type of depression. Doctors always say that when they try to convince you your test levels really aren't that low (my total test was 211, btw....)

If I really had to guess, your bf% is NOT 5%, unless, like FRawnz said, you are suffering malnurishment.

You may want to talk to your GP to see if you need to see a shrink?

[trix8]

what caused your low test lvls if you dont mind, i had low test levels from a cycle of deca but test wasnt the only reason it killed my libido, screwed with neurotransmitters and dopamine levels, evil shit

[lowtestsucks]

I'm 6'0, bout 185. I don't know if I'm really 5% BF, but I work out a lot and eat really well and have noticed that I have become much more "shredded" as it were. 6 pack for sure, where before I had a 4 pack when flexing. I eat a lot. I don't know what caused my low test levels. I definitely developed at a slower rate than some of the other dudes in high school. Probably genetic. I did do some prohormone shit once back in the day, although I did a pretty bad job with it and wasn't very consistent.

trix can you elaborate a bit? I went through some mental shit a while back which may have ****ed with some of my brain chemistry, although I've never really considered it. How did you get that tested/fixed?

To elaborate, I guess I thought having high test would give me more mental clarity/sex drive/motivation. However none of those happened, and I have no desire to do anything particular, sex included. Physically I can perform no problem, but mentally I don't really have any want so to speak. I've never really considered that I might be depressed, it's not like I feel sad or anything, more just emptiness/lack of desire.

[trix8]

check ur prolactin and DHT.... didnt see it, their reall important for sex drive

[lowtestsucks]

I had prolactin checked, it was fine. DHT I will look into.

[dosXX]

Perhaps it's all in your head. There's a good thread on here where he mentioned similar experiences that you are going through and according to him every thing became better after changing his negative mental perception to a positive. I will try to find the link for you and post here for your reference.

Okay I found a few links so here ya go.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...over-analyzing

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...art-of-HRT-TRT

[kenshiro]

wow dude, other than the bf%, your physical stats and pre TRT bloodwork is very similar to mine. I too have no libido ( I've just recently started TRT with testim; been on it for a little over a week, slight improvement not much.

I also have had some elevated prolactin (26ng/dl........4-15 ng/dl) and after 10 weeks of taking cabergoline at 0.250/week, haven't felt any different.

[yoyoma1]

What about hgh? i'm kinda in the same boat, and i think its from either pro hormones about 5 years ago, or taking finesteride for hair loss. (youtube video about how that sh$t can mess you up for life) i have tried it all, caber, dhea, test, hcg , l-arginine, proviron ....... you name it, nothing makes me want sex.
i will be trying hgh soon, if that doesnt do it then i'm joining the church. i do hear that trt shows results after 3-4 months so i guess you cant rush it.

[flatscat]

What about hgh? i'm kinda in the same boat, and i think its from either pro hormones about 5 years ago, or taking finesteride for hair loss. (youtube video about how that sh$t can mess you up for life) i have tried it all, caber, dhea, test, hcg , l-arginine, proviron ....... you name it, nothing makes me want sex.
i will be trying hgh soon, if that doesnt do it then i'm joining the church. i do hear that trt shows results after 3-4 months so i guess you cant rush it.

lmao - there are women at church too bro. maybe you meant monastery!!

[lowtestsucks]

For all you guys out there with high DHEA and low testosterone , get your EOS checked and get a Western Blot done. As I understand it your body produces more DHEA to fight off systemic infections, but your body can only produce so much so eventually it stops converting it to testosterone .

Very promising results, which explains a lot. Will keep you posted.

[ithunk]

I'm 6'0, bout 185. I don't know if I'm really 5% BF, but I work out a lot and eat really well and have noticed that I have become much more "shredded" as it were. 6 pack for sure, where before I had a 4 pack when flexing. I eat a lot. I don't know what caused my low test levels. I definitely developed at a slower rate than some of the other dudes in high school. Probably genetic. I did do some prohormone shit once back in the day, although I did a pretty bad job with it and wasn't very consistent.

trix can you elaborate a bit? I went through some mental shit a while back which may have ****ed with some of my brain chemistry, although I've never really considered it. How did you get that tested/fixed?

To elaborate, I guess I thought having high test would give me more mental clarity/sex drive/motivation. However none of those happened, and I have no desire to do anything particular, sex included. Physically I can perform no problem, but mentally I don't really have any want so to speak. I've never really considered that I might be depressed, it's not like I feel sad or anything, more just emptiness/lack of desire.

so prohormones caused low test levels?

[yoyoma1]

For all you guys out there with high DHEA and low testosterone , get your EOS checked and get a Western Blot done. As I understand it your body produces more DHEA to fight off systemic infections, but your body can only produce so much so eventually it stops converting it to testosterone .

Very promising results, which explains a lot. Will keep you posted.

Keep us posted!!

[lowtestsucks]

I desperately need to know how to come off the Test-C though!! I have a distinct feeling my endo sucks. He didn't give me any HCG while I was on the test, and he was way too quick to put me on test-c when there was clearly something else going on (elevated DHEA and high EOS).

Please please please I need to get off this shit. Is this the best way to do it? http://www.mesomorphosis.com/article...le-therapy.htm