Low Total Tesosterone, High Free Testosterone - Help!

**THF** · 10-04-2010, 11:26 PM

Hello everyone, my name is Tony. 32yo male in California.

I stumbled upon this site doing searches about low testosterone and high free testosterone . Couldn't find much information or any info that made sense to me so I am hoping someone can help me.

I suffer from fatigue, lethargy, headaches, weight gain, moodiness, iritability, low sex drive, can't remember simple things, thinning hair.

So I finally went to the Dr. for some tests and the only abnormal thing we could find was low total testosterone.

So the nurse put me on androgel 5mg patch a day. This was back in Feb.

Here are my test results from Feb, before androgel and then my current results from a couple weeks ago. Note the nurse didn't run a free testosterone the first time around:

Feb 2010

Total Testosterone: 266 (241-827)

Sept 2010:

Total Testosterone: 276 (250-1100)
% Free Testosterone: 2.53 (1.5-2.2) This was noted as high
Free Testosterone: 69.8 (35.0-155.0)

So does anyone know if all my symptoms can be related to these testosterone levels ? Why would someone have high FREE testosterone, but such a LOW total testosterone?

**big_ron** · 10-04-2010, 11:31 PM

Im interested in this aswell, bump!

**stevey_6t9** · 10-04-2010, 11:53 PM

could be low shbg.

you need to get more blood work done

**THF** · 10-05-2010, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by stevey_6t9

could be low shbg.

you need to get more blood work done

What exactly is shbg and what tests would you suggest?

**flatscat** · 10-05-2010, 06:48 AM

total numbers look like shiat - obviously all the 5mg has done is shut you down and get you a little higher than you were without it - but, you are not converting what you do have - so that is good. But overall how do you feel compared to pre feb10?

And welcome!

Flats

**THF** · 10-05-2010, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by flatscat

total numbers look like shiat - obviously all the 5mg has done is shut you down and get you a little higher than you were without it - but, you are not converting what you do have - so that is good. But overall how do you feel compared to pre feb10?

And welcome!

Flats

thanks!

i feel like crap still. no difference in anything!!

**Vettester** · 10-05-2010, 02:05 PM

Everyone will agree, your total test number is low. Don't buy into the docs trying to tell you that your free test is "high", it's not. The % is right about where you need it ... 2% to 3% is ideal. As Stevey indicated, this reflects your SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin), which is an abundant protein that binds to testosterone and estradiol. In addition, some of it is loosely bound to albumin as well, so what you have left is free, or for bio-available use. I suspect your SHBG is pretty good, maybe in the lower half of the normal reference range.

So the testosterone that your body will have for use is completely relevant to the total serum level. Look at it as a water well. Say both you and I are allowed 2% of what's in the well everyday. However, your well has 250 gallons, mine has 800 gallons. So, at the end of the day, my household operates on 16 gallons, you get 5 gallons. Well, people will tell you that you're getting the same % as me, but in reality you're getting less than a 1/3 of what I am. In your case, you really need more water in the well to make it an even playing field.

**flatscat** · 10-05-2010, 03:25 PM

bottom line is you are still hypo and ur doc is a piece of crap for not helping u out he has done zero for you but cost you money. sorry to put it that way, but slapping 5mg's on a day is doing you no good. u can try to talk to them about it - and if they do not increase your dose or switch you to inj's - then you will have to find another doc. really sorry you are going through this - it is not uncommon, but you should and deserve to be and feel like a better man by now.

**THF** · 10-05-2010, 04:54 PM

Thank you guys for the information, luckily my insurance is covering the androgel ($300!)

So would you say to stop using the patches and try to find a Dr. that can do injections? What kind of a Dr. do I need to find to help me with this?? The patches have been hell because they leave a horrible burn and itch like crazy.

So from my tests, it still seems that I need a higher total and to achieve that, I will have to seek out injections?

I should also mention I take 5mcg of Cytomel 2xday for my thyroid since I have no energy. It has got my T3 up in the higher range after a few months, but again, no help in the enrgy dept. Still fatigued and down as ever.

Thanks again, guys and the more info the better!

**trix8** · 10-06-2010, 01:49 AM

Its most likely your testosterone causing all your problems, 266 is still really low. One is put on hrt to get their test levels up and feel better. If your doc thinks thats a fine level then i really wouldnt bother with him anymore at all, most doctors are way tooo stubborn to about these things to take advice from the patient. I would want atleast double your current level. My level was at 340 and some doctors said im fine and in the normal range and blew me off, until i found the right endo, who did agree it was low and worked with me. if your having symptoms thats reason enough to get treatment.

**THF** · 10-06-2010, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by trix8

Its most likely your testosterone causing all your problems, 266 is still really low. One is put on hrt to get their test levels up and feel better. If your doc thinks thats a fine level then i really wouldnt bother with him anymore at all, most doctors are way tooo stubborn to about these things to take advice from the patient. I would want atleast double your current level. My level was at 340 and some doctors said im fine and in the normal range and blew me off, until i found the right endo, who did agree it was low and worked with me. if your having symptoms thats reason enough to get treatment.

Well the person I see is a nurse practitioner, so not really a Dr. so to speak and she has been very willing to work with me, but she is not that familiar with testosterone replacement , but was willing to try the patches because she had used them before, but as far as injections went, she said no because she didn't know enough about them and told me to seek out a different Dr. for this.

Which is fine, I just don't know what type a Dr. to look for. Some say endo, some say urologist. So I am clueless.

**LGM** · 10-06-2010, 06:18 PM

Endocrinologist is the specialist you'll need to see. Urologist is fine, if you want him shooting your test up your butt crack.

A lot of decent Family Practice will diagnose and not make you see an endo; just depends on your HMO/PPO.

**Vettester** · 10-06-2010, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by LGM

Urologist is fine, if you want him shooting your test up your butt crack.

.

I use this method to administer HCG . That way the LH signal doesn't have to travel too far to reach the nuts

**THF** · 10-06-2010, 07:13 PM

I have limited insurance (medi-care, medi-cal) but I will try to find an endo that can help me here in Fresno, CA.

I don't care how or what they have to do, I am just tired of feeling like crap.

**Vettester** · 10-06-2010, 07:22 PM

Have you looked at going to a Anti-Aging / Wellness Clinic? I know a good doc in the Santa Monica area that you would only need to see once a year. He will do phone call meetings 2 or 3 times a year.

**THF** · 10-06-2010, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by vetteman08

Have you looked at going to a Anti-Aging / Wellness Clinic? I know a good doc in the Santa Monica area that you would only need to see once a year. He will do phone call meetings 2 or 3 times a year.

I have not looked into that yet.

Do you know if they accept insurance? Also, how would I do the whole testosterone replacement thing seeing them once a year?

Greatly appreciate all the help!

**Vettester** · 10-06-2010, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by THF

I have not looked into that yet.

Do you know if they accept insurance? Also, how would I do the whole testosterone replacement thing seeing them once a year?

Greatly appreciate all the help!

The doctor would initially see you to review your labs and to consult you on designing a protocol to get you back on track. He might want you to run labs again after about 6 weeks, but he should be able to review them with you over the phone. Thinking about it, he has a office in the Lancaster area that he practices from at various times. That would probably be better than Santa Monica.

Anyways, after your visit, and presuming you will qualify, you get a script and you're good to go. You can take it with you and get it filled, or he will call it in for you at one of the compounding pharmacies and have it mailed to your house.

Not sure on the insurance, as I am with Kaiser. Anything I do out of their network is out of pocket. I can PM you after you get 25 posts if you want to call and ask them some questions.

**THF** · 10-06-2010, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by vetteman08

The doctor would initially see you to review your labs and to consult you on designing a protocol to get you back on track. He might want you to run labs again after about 6 weeks, but he should be able to review them with you over the phone. Thinking about it, he has a office in the Lancaster area that he practices from at various times. That would probably be better than Santa Monica.

Anyways, after your visit, and presuming you will qualify, you get a script and you're good to go. You can take it with you and get it filled, or he will call it in for you at one of the compounding pharmacies and have it mailed to your house.

Not sure on the insurance, as I am with Kaiser. Anything I do out of their network is out of pocket. I can PM you after you get 25 posts if you want to call and ask them some questions.

Sounds interesting.

You can always send me an email if I am allowed to post my email here?

**Vettester** · 10-06-2010, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by THF

Sounds interesting.

You can always send me an email if I am allowed to post my email here?

I'd keep the email address off the thread so you don't get a bunch of spamming. You're at 10 posts now, just get a total of 25 and you should be able to get/send PM's. You can go in the lounge and do some post whoring to get there real quick.

**Vettester** · 10-06-2010, 08:30 PM

You would also need to double check to see if they accept patients under 35yo. Some will and some won't. I'm not positive where this guy sits if you're 32yo.

**swllce** · 10-06-2010, 09:03 PM

The Bloodwork aspect of this tread interests me ,being that i can relate to some of your symtoms you desribed.
I Just had bloodwork sent away today for test levels.
Do you have a regular workout or excercise routine?

**THF** · 10-06-2010, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by vickenkalle

The Bloodwork aspect of this tread interests me ,being that i can relate to some of your symtoms you desribed.
I Just had bloodwork sent away today for test levels.
Do you have a regular workout or excercise routine?

I do zero exercise.

**THF** · 10-07-2010, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by vickenkalle

The Bloodwork aspect of this tread interests me ,being that i can relate to some of your symtoms you desribed.
I Just had bloodwork sent away today for test levels.
Do you have a regular workout or excercise routine?

what symptoms do you suffer from?

**THF** · 10-06-2010, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by vetteman08

You would also need to double check to see if they accept patients under 35yo. Some will and some won't. I'm not positive where this guy sits if you're 32yo.

Well they better! lol

**Vettester** · 10-07-2010, 07:18 PM

Contact *Admin* or one of the mods. You might have to give them a tip, so have your credit card ready or pics of your girl. Maybe the post count has risen, or there's a 30 day waiting period ... Not sure. Stay patient, I'm sure it will work soon enough (sounds like HRT advise).

**THF** · 10-07-2010, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by vetteman08

Contact *Admin* or one of the mods. You might have to give them a tip, so have your credit card ready or pics of your girl. Maybe the post count has risen, or there's a 30 day waiting period ... Not sure. Stay patient, I'm sure it will work soon enough (sounds like HRT advise).

i still think i should just give my email haha

**swllce** · 10-08-2010, 07:13 PM

I dont know if this tread is still alive?
But anyway ,my symptoms are fatiuge ,trouble concentrating ,headaches for 1 to 5 days,mood swings ,anxiety...need i go on?
If for some reason meds are not doing the trick 100%,working out can boost your own test production.
It will also elevate self Confidence,
Stabilize Mood, lower Anxiety
For me hitting the weigthts and doing cardio has been a life saver.

**THF** · 10-09-2010, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by vickenkalle

I dont know if this tread is still alive?
But anyway ,my symptoms are fatiuge ,trouble concentrating ,headaches for 1 to 5 days,mood swings ,anxiety...need i go on?
If for some reason meds are not doing the trick 100%,working out can boost your own test production.
It will also elevate self Confidence,
Stabilize Mood, lower Anxiety
For me hitting the weigthts and doing cardio has been a life saver.

yes i have all of those symtpoms.

mno energy to exercise and here in fresno, aint nowhere to hike or walk. i hate this city.

did u have low test and then get it checked after u lifted weights?

**THF** · 10-10-2010, 11:39 PM

Anyone have any other info about this?

**THF** · 10-20-2010, 02:17 PM

Anyone else have any suggestions for me? I am tired of feeling like crap!

Why would someone have such a high FREE % of Testosterone , but a low TOTAL? I feel like crap!

**Vettester** · 10-20-2010, 05:13 PM

THF, it looks like your PM is up and running. Check your message.

**THF** · 11-04-2010, 02:24 AM

Originally Posted by vetteman08

THF, it looks like your PM is up and running. Check your message.

thank you! says i need 50 posts to reply to your PM, so if you can PM me your email id appreciate it. heres what i was gonna send

thank you! i had given up on this site for answers so just now checked and saw i had a PM.

i am going to be moving back to arcata, CA which is about 5hrs north of SF on the coast next month so dont think i will be able to go to the center u suggested.

i just dont know what to do about my testosterone . im obviously having all the symptoms of low T and have a very low total, but my dr says that since my free is so high that i am fine. well obviously my free test is not being converted hence low T and by not be converted it isnt be used im assuming?

i dont know if i should be seeking a endo or a urologist for this. any suggestions?

thanks again for all your help.