Urologist visit in 10 days

**funkymonk** · 01-14-2011, 01:43 PM

And I want to be prepared. It took me a month to get into see this guy, after waiting a month before to get into my PCP.

21 years old
never cycled anything hormonal
test, serum 291 (280-800 pg/nl)
LH 1.8 (1.7-8.6 mIU/ml)
FSH 2.8 (1.5-12.4 mIU/ml)
estradiol 23.6 (7.6-42.6 pg/ml)

I figure I have secondary hypogonadism.

If he agrees that TRT is the best option instead of a Clomid/hCG restart, I want to push for the following protocol:
-100mg test C EW
-.5mg Arimidex (anastrazole) EoD
-250iu hCG 2xWeekly

I'm technically "normal" for test, but everything above is teetering on low, and I do suffer symptoms of low T. I have no libido, get morning wood maybe once or twice a month. Recovery and mental "clarity" aren't perfect, but I could definitely make a case against them.

I'm choosing not to bring up gaining fat/losing muscle unless he asks. The last thing I want him to think is that I crashed my T in an effort to get a legal source of juice.

Is there anything else I can do to prepare? I've printed out studies/paperwork to help me get what I want, but will they do any good or make the Dr not wanna listen to me at all? Think it will be easy for me to push for shots if he offers the gel/patch?

**zaggahamma** · 01-14-2011, 03:37 PM

i think you prepared well (as well as one can/should)...no guarantee though...some docs are on an ego ride...no guarantees at all bro..

wish u the best

**funkymonk** · 01-14-2011, 03:39 PM

How's the dosing look on the hCG and AI?

**zaggahamma** · 01-14-2011, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by funkymonk

How's the dosing look on the hCG and AI?

AI looks a bit much and should only be added in shortly after one begins trt AS NEEDED not from the get go...one cannot /should not assume that his estro will jump too high but having one ready and monitoring those levels is important

**flatscat** · 01-14-2011, 04:06 PM

Just for shts and grins, what are your stats? What does your Cholesterol numbers look like?

**funkymonk** · 01-14-2011, 05:39 PM

The folks at ************ are saying that there's not a chance in hell that a urologist will give me anything at age 21, let alone self administered injections. Feelsbadman.jpg

Originally Posted by jpkman

AI looks a bit much and should only be added in shortly after one begins trt AS NEEDED not from the get go...one cannot /should not assume that his estro will jump too high but having one ready and monitoring those levels is important

Good to know, thanks. I have a fattier chest, so I thought I might be predisposed to gyno but I guess we'll see.

What about hCG ? From the get go or just as needed? Fertility is the last thing on my mind, but I'd sure like to keep my boys swinging.

Originally Posted by flatscat

Just for shts and grins, what are your stats? What does your Cholesterol numbers look like?

5'11"
180lbs, somewhere between 14-16% BF
Lifting with a decent routine for 1.5 years, about 50% of that was spent cutting and the other clean bulking. I can control my weight (note, WEIGHT, not muscle mass) in either direction very easily.

deads: 5*5*245lbs
BB bench: 5*5*145lbs
squat: 5*5*190

Strength gains are very had for my to make, despite numerous training tactics. Diet is always on point, and either in a ~500cal deficit or a ~100-400cal surplus. .4-.5g/lb bw fat a day, 1-1.5g/lb bw protein a day.

I still get "OP do you even lift" looks. There are tons of people who go into the gym and look better and lift more than me, and their diet consists of vodka, McDonald's, and pizza.

**flatscat** · 01-14-2011, 05:50 PM

Cholesterol numbers?

We are glad you are here, and will do all we can to help you. You are right about the muscle mass at 5'11, 180lbs and 14-16% bf you don't have much after all the work you have done. I would also advise you to start a thread in the diet section and see if what you have been doing diet wise is correct.

How long have you had the low t symptoms?

**funkymonk** · 01-14-2011, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by flatscat

Cholesterol numbers?

We are glad you are here, and will do all we can to help you. You are right about the muscle mass at 5'11, 180lbs and 14-16% bf you don't have much after all the work you have done. I would also advise you to start a thread in the diet section and see if what you have been doing diet wise is correct.

How long have you had the low t symptoms?

Cholesterol is currently untested.

History: I was pretty damn obese and inactive as a kid. 180lbs in 3rd grade, probably close to 25-30% bf. I literally NEVER exercised until 11th-ish grade, at which point I also started cutting out things like fried foods, mayonnaise, and some junk food. At age 19 (2 years ago) I spent the summer on a 2000cal, low fat (10-20g a day) diet and felt like utter and complete shit, and fell into a cut-binge-cut cycle, but I since have spent about a year on a healthy relationship with food and training.
Around this time last year I was abusing caffeine (over 1g a day sometimes) but have since stopped. I don't drink/smoke/etc.

Low t symptoms. A few years. In middle school the breeze would get me hard if it blew me the right way. Now, it damn near takes a girl to be sitting in my lap before I get any movement or mental interest. The slow muscle gain I've already explained. Mental fog/general fatigue is present, but not overwhelming.

Diet. I know it's in check. I know exactly how my body will responds to calorie intake, low/high carb, low/high fat.

**zaggahamma** · 01-14-2011, 07:21 PM

u answered your own question about the hcg

**Doubler** · 01-14-2011, 09:37 PM

21 years old
never cycled anything hormonal
test, serum 291 (280-800 pg/nl)
LH 1.8 (1.7-8.6 mIU/ml)
FSH 2.8 (1.5-12.4 mIU/ml)
estradiol 23.6 (7.6-42.6 pg/ml)

I figure I have secondary hypogonadism.

If he agrees that TRT is the best option instead of a Clomid/hCG restart, I want to push for the following protocol:
-100mg test C EW
-.5mg Arimidex (anastrazole) EoD
-250iu hCG 2xWeekly

Your levels are definitely off for your age, and its going to be difficult to get what you are asking for the same reason.. Might want to try an HRT specialist if your Urologist won't help..

**funkymonk** · 01-14-2011, 09:48 PM

Thanks all very much for your help.

Originally Posted by jpkman

u answered your own question about the hcg

Damn. I was afraid of that.

**zaggahamma** · 01-15-2011, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by funkymonk

Thanks all very much for your help.

Damn. I was afraid of that.

yw...but y be afraid...you either want to keep fuller balls or you could care less about em

**funkymonk** · 01-15-2011, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by jpkman

yw...but y be afraid...you either want to keep fuller balls or you could care less about em

Just one more thing I have to push for that my uro probably won't have any idea about. Like I said though, I'll just wait and see hoy the doc is.

**funkymonk** · 01-24-2011, 08:53 PM

Just got back.

Very very very impressed with this guy.
He asked all the right questions, knew his stuff, and was very open to TRT via gel or injections (even self-administered). He was concerned about me losing fertility at such a young age (21). I asked about hCG , and he said that it's something we could look into.

I'm getting my bloods done again in a day or two, and then making a followup appointment. He said that if my test truly is low, he'll give me the choice or TRT if he feels that it's a wise option.

**zaggahamma** · 01-24-2011, 10:11 PM

good news bro....be a great idea to keep looking into hcg as a part of your protocol if u want any mini monks (maybe a few months down the line....so u can start with only one compound at a time which can make it easy to determine what does what for you

**funkymonk** · 01-24-2011, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

good news bro....be a great idea to keep looking into hcg as a part of your protocol if u want any mini monks (maybe a few months down the line....so u can start with only one compound at a time which can make it easy to determine what does what for you

I will probably follow this route with hCG and AIs, but for the time being I'm just going to get my bloods drawn tomorrow morning and scheduling a followup ASAP.

**JohnnyVegas** · 01-25-2011, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by funkymonk

I will probably follow this route with hCG and AIs, but for the time being I'm just going to get my bloods drawn tomorrow morning and scheduling a followup ASAP.

That is what I did. Test for several weeks, then added HCG , then Clen . Blood work will show if I need AIs. Patience is something I have had to learn. Grrrrr.

**funkymonk** · 02-04-2011, 05:44 PM

Got bloods redrawn. Total T was 295 pg/nl (280-800) at 7am. First draw months ago was 291 ng/pl.

Uro didn't hesitate to put me on TRT after asking me what I thought. Unfortunately, he was staunchly opposed to injections as the gel's daily application more closely mimics the body's normal release of test.

I'm on 5 grams of 1% gel a day, which is 50mg a day. At the alleged 10% absorption rate, that comes out to 35mg a week. This should be equiavlent to roughly 50mg of cypionate a week right?

I'm getting blood redrawn in 6 weeks (just total test), and having a followup appointment a week after that. He's told me that's he's not familiar with estrogren control or hCG , so I'll most likely ask for a referral to an endocrinologist and push for injections, AI if necessary, and hCG if he's open to it.

We'll see how things go, and I'll likely ask for a referral to an endo so I can get hCG and an AI if necessary.

EDIT: most recent bloods below.

Really surprised to see my LH and FSH at double the levels they used to be, despite same total T.

total T 295 ng/dl (249-836)
LH 3.9 mIU/ml (1.7-8.6)
FSH 3.1 mIU/ml (1.5-12.4)
prolactin 8.5 ng/dl (4.0-15.2)
SBHG 20.4 nmol/l (14.5-48.4)

**Honkey_Kong** · 02-05-2011, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by funkymonk

Just got back.

Very very very impressed with this guy.
He asked all the right questions, knew his stuff, and was very open to TRT via gel or injections (even self-administered). He was concerned about me losing fertility at such a young age (21). I asked about hCG , and he said that it's something we could look into.

I'm getting my bloods done again in a day or two, and then making a followup appointment. He said that if my test truly is low, he'll give me the choice or TRT if he feels that it's a wise option.

If fertility is an issue for you, let me put your mind at ease. You're better off not having kids. Just remember that all the shit you did as a kid, your kids (if you have them) will do twice as much.

But as far as TRT goes, the gel isn't very good. my levels were never stable with it and I would get rashes from where I would put it on.

**funkymonk** · 02-05-2011, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by Honkey_Kong

If fertility is an issue for you, let me put your mind at ease. You're better off not having kids. Just remember that all the shit you did as a kid, your kids (if you have them) will do twice as much.

But as far as TRT goes, the gel isn't very good. my levels were never stable with it and I would get rashes from where I would put it on.

Well my thinking with kids is that I'd pick TRT over them if I had to choose. I don't want to bring a new soul into this world with the intention of filling some personal void that I haven't fixed yet. More than that though, I just don't want my boys to shrivel up and die.

**Honkey_Kong** · 02-06-2011, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by funkymonk

Well my thinking with kids is that I'd pick TRT over them if I had to choose. I don't want to bring a new soul into this world with the intention of filling some personal void that I haven't fixed yet. More than that though, I just don't want my boys to shrivel up and die.

There are meds your clinic or doctor can prescribe to prevent shrinkage. And if TRT is really right for you, you'll have a new lease on life when you go on it.